King DDD+; rejoice for the chain grab!

[GHNeko]

Actually uthrow at mid-high percents leads to really good "Bait and Punish" and "Read and Punish" situations, especially if you do an empty SHFF to stir them a bit.

 

[Plum]

Yeah, I guess I did miss Utilt.
I'm just used to saving Utilt for kills (old habit from my vBrawl DDD days :V).
It has plenty of vertical range though, which is nice. It will hit through any platform immediately above DDD which would make it great for starting something if they miss a tech on a platform or something. Too bad it doesn't have the horizontal range of Snake's Utilt... That's the one thing I don't like about it; they have to be right next to you to hit them from the side, but we all can't have Snake's tilts.

Everything I do with Nair basically comes from playing Wario and his Nair. DDD's Nair is fairly similar to the first hit of Wario's, but DDD has a lot more girth to throw around as a hitbox then Wario. Fast falled Nair is great, combos into grabs and jabs (which combos into grab <3) at low percents, and at mid percents I pull of Nair into his aerials pretty well. You can also combo into something like Utilt at low percents but I tend to prefer grabs (though I'll definitely explore Utilt's options next time I play). It's also the only thing he really has that hits all around him so quickly which makes it a good OOS option.
Probably other stuff I'm missing with Nair, but I've only had a good week with B+ DDD so far. But I'm absolutely loving him.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. DDD's Bair > a lot of characters.
And I think I'm going DDD for the Marth matchup for now on. I don't care if Marth can lay more hurt on DDD now, his recovery is so trash now, I just can't pass up the matchup >:V

 

[GHNeko]

Wait What? Utilt goes through platforms? >_>

 

[Plum]

Wait What? Utilt goes through platforms? >_>

I might have been playing too much Wario Ware lately, but I'm pretty sure it will hit through the lowest platforms on Battlefield too. If I had my Wii with me I would run and check, but I might be wrong on Battlefield. DDD is **** tall though, which is why I'm pretty sure it works on Battlefield too.

Does anybody know if the featherweights can jump out of Dthrow still? In vBrawl I'm pretty sure it was Squirtle, Olimar, Jiggly, and G&W who could jump out of Dthrow before hitting the ground. Don't know if they can with the new Dthrow, but it would be a shame having Bthrow be the only effective featherweight throw like in vBrawl.

 

[GHNeko]

Not completely sure. I'd image utilt goes through bottom BF platforms now, but barely.

I have no clue what to say about Dthrow as I've yet to play any one of those characters with my D3.

I do know that Dthrow near the ledge, but not at it is the perfect spot for D3.

 

[Nybb]

Not completely sure. I'd image utilt goes through bottom BF platforms now, but barely.

I have no clue what to say about Dthrow as I've yet to play any one of those characters with my D3.

I do know that Dthrow near the ledge, but not at it is the perfect spot for D3.

D-throwing your opponent off the edge is pretty amazing, because almost everybody will doublejump right into a d-tilt on reflex at least once. And that usually leads to them dying.

 

[GHNeko]

The only time a D3 Usmashes is when he fails to Utilt. <_<

Usmash is bad in a general sense. The range of the move still doesnt even justify because with good reaction time and accurate fingers, utilt does what you just said about usmash.

If anything, you can just stand at once side of a platform and look the other way and if you see them roll in that direction, follow with a walk and utilt.

 

[JCaesar]

Usmash is super laggy and doesn't have that sexy lingering hitbox.

Utilt > usmash in pretty much every way.

 

[GHNeko]

Only thing Usmash does better is out damage on hit by hit basis.

 

[ph00tbag]

Actually uthrow at mid-high percents leads to really good "Bait and Punish" and "Read and Punish" situations, especially if you do an empty SHFF to stir them a bit.

Bait and punish and read and punish is pretty much dthrow's purpose now, anyway. Different strokes, I guess.

 

[Plum]

But you're landing Utilt so much more often then you could ever land Usmash anyways. And it's a 2% difference on an uncharged Usmash, which is so small it just isn't worth the lag of Usmash.

Not to mention Utilt even kills earlier than Usmash (its like 5 or 10% earlier, but that's still earlier)

 

[Nybb]

Only thing Usmash does better is out damage on hit by hit basis.

That's pretty much the point. You rack up like 25% damage when it's charged, and you do it with a generally bad attack. People know it's a lame attack, and so it's pretty demoralizing and frustrating for the opponent when you do it multiple times. Obviously it's dumb to pass up a kill with u-tilt if they are over 90%, but I would say landing u-smash for the mindgames if you can is worth it when they are at lower percents. I'm not advocating spamming u-smash by any means, this situation where a charged one is pretty much guaranteed is really the only time I could ever see it being useful.

 

[GHNeko]

Bait and punish and read and punish is pretty much dthrow's purpose now, anyway. Different strokes, I guess.

I agree, but Uthrow's given purpose is changes at higher percents. That's all. It's still awesome.

Anyone thinking of giving D3's second jab more IASA if it has some already?

 

[Plum]

DDD's smashes do mind **** people. Especially Fsmash. Even if you hit with the failbox of Fsmash most people are going to have a mini freak out about how they could have screwed up so badly to be hit with any hitbox of Fsmash, failbox or not.

What do you have in mind for second jab?
It already combos into grabs all day, but I'm open ears and willing to test a more **** second jab.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Playing some DDD against my friends. I need to get better at tech chasing, but I think one of us is doing something wrong. Did I really just do 29 damage with a single jab? Also, Dair is sick.

 

[GHNeko]

DDD's smashes do mind **** people. Especially Fsmash. Even if you hit with the failbox of Fsmash most people are going to have a mini freak out about how they could have screwed up so badly to be hit with any hitbox of Fsmash, failbox or not.

What do you have in mind for second jab?
It already combos into grabs all day, but I'm open ears and willing to test a more **** second jab.

I wanted to make Second jab easier to cancel with a shield/crouch. :V

Also, Dsmash. How useful is this move?

Playing some DDD against my friends. I need to get better at tech chasing, but I think one of us is doing something wrong. Did I really just do 29 damage with a single jab? Also, Dair is sick.

Did you go all the way up to the 3rd jab? If so, they fail at DI.

 

[yummynbeefy]

i actually LOVE the new d-throw its really fun to tech chase and since it still has set knockback and alot of characters can be f-tilted out of it

 

[Plum]

Dsmash is probably the most useful of his smashes, though all the cool kids use Fsmash.

Kills pretty well, like very shortly after Utilt starts killing. It's quick compared to his other smashes, but it's still not that fast. Covers both sides of him, punishes rolls, and stagespikes anybody hanging on the ledge slightly too long. It has a great vertical KB angle, but too slow to really use over Utilt unless you are using it to punish. Though the fact that you can charge it makes it better than Utilt in one area; charge it as somebody techs behind you and it would kill them earlier than Utilt.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Did you go all the way up to the 3rd jab? If so, they fail at DI.

Yeah. If I could play with friends who knew what I was talking about when I mention "DI" then I would. >.>

 

[GHNeko]

i actually LOVE the new d-throw its really fun to tech chase and since it still has set knockback and alot of characters can be f-tilted out of it

I think the Dthrow has alot of potential. I suck at it though.

Dsmash is probably the most useful of his smashes, though all the cool kids use Fsmash.

Kills pretty well, like very shortly after Utilt starts killing. It's quick compared to his other smashes, but it's still not that fast. Covers both sides of him, punishes rolls, and stagespikes anybody hanging on the ledge slightly too long. It has a great vertical KB angle, but too slow to really use over Utilt unless you are using it to punish. Though the fact that you can charge it makes it better than Utilt in one area; charge it as somebody techs behind you and it would kill them earlier than Utilt.

Dsmash kills? It takes so long to hit and the animation is extremely apparent, making it mad easy to DI. <_<

I havn't killed with dsmash in forever.

Yeah. If I could play with friends who knew what I was talking about when I mention "DI" then I would. >.>

Point them to Smash wiki.

 

[Plum]

IIRC it takes like ~10% after Utilt starts killing for Dsmash with no DI on either.
But you're right, its much easier to have perfect DI against Dsmash then Utilt, and Utilt is far easier to land, making it pointless to go out of your way for a Dsmash kill.

I can't do crap with Dthrow until like halfway through the second or third stock. Once I have a general idea on their habits though, I'm alright at techchasing with it. That's always a thing to get better at.
Looking at the best Snake players and how they rack up like 50% on continuous Dthrow techchases gives me something to shoot for eventually

 

[Alphatron]

Either my friends can't DI or dair can lead to utilt on some fast falling characters.

 

[Plum]

I played only DDD at a Smashfest today... I had the only setup with B+ at the start and everything else was vBrawl. By the end of the day we had four more people who brought Wii's that let me install everything on their Wii/SD and two of them had their Wii's B+ dedicated by the end as well.
Nobody was thinking about replays though T_T (I saved one personally... yeah... we failed...)

So I did look into Utilt, and its **** sexy at low percents. Absolutely excellent for platform abuse, which is probably my favorite way to get Utilts off. Any missed tech on a platform is a free Utilt (and at higher percents its an easy kill <3).
It's awesome at low percents because its one of those moves that is going to have a followup regardless of DI. If they don't really bother to DI or they are just at extremely low percents (or if they are a fastfaller and get ***** by Utilt) you can get them with a Nair. Uair can work, but it has a pretty small window where it actually connects, though at higher percents you can bait into an airdodge and still hit with it. If they DI to the left or right then a Bair or Fair works fine, and if you are close to the edge already it can start a WoP which is great.
I was surprised at how good of an anti aerial Utilt was; not many characters have a Dair or aerial that hits under them that can stop it. As long as you can predict that they will be throwing out an aerial, I would say go for it.
The only downside about Utilt is that you really have to commit to it, and if you whiff expect your poor fattie to be punished pretty hard.

My new favorite thing is just charging up an Fsmash a little distance from the ledge when somebody is hanging on it. If they jump directly from the ledge then they will get their face absolutely *****, if they stand up from the ledge they will get *****, and if they use a get up attack they will get ***** with good timing on your part. A lot of rolls from the ledge will at least get hit by the whiff box which still leaves you pretty safe. Fsmash's range and relatively low cooldown lag (considering how slow it is on startup) makes it a pretty safe thing to do against most characters.

 

[ph00tbag]

OP updated. lol

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

What... the... hell?

Infinite on snake?

 

[ph00tbag]

What... the... hell?

Infinite on snake?

I literally laughed when I did it, because it's so ridiculous. You can buffer a standing grab, and evidently you can just regrab the guy. I only did it once, but... that can't just happen randomly.

 

[matt4300]

I tested Buffer 10 frames on Bowser.

Without DI its a legit infin

With DI Down and away bowser just plunks to the ground...

Now I may just have really sucky timeing but at 10 frame buffer that doesnt even matter ... that and I could do IC chaingrabs in Vbrawl... so i think this is busted

 

[GHNeko]

Mmmm. developing metagame.

This can be used for meta mind games.

 

[DarkDragoon]

o_o So you just do standing grab junk? Like what you could do to DK in vBrawl?
-DD

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I actually already found this out about a month ago (for DK and Bowser). I didn''t say anything because when I tested it with DI, it absolutely didn't work (I didn't test Snake, though). Unless the porting to PSA somehow changed it, making it a true infinite, then I wouldn't worry. I'll probably test out Snake, myself, if no one has by the time I get to it.

 

[GHNeko]

miiiinddgames.

 

[Revven]

With Dthrow I'd imagine. Plus, he says he hasn't tested for DI yet so ... I kinda doubt any of that is legit if it's not tested with DI.

 

[tocador]

Question, what trow are you guys saying that can CG?

It is still d-throw?

 

[ph00tbag]

I actually already found this out about a month ago (for DK and Bowser). I didn''t say anything because when I tested it with DI, it absolutely didn't work (I didn't test Snake, though). Unless the porting to PSA somehow changed it, making it a true infinite, then I wouldn't worry. I'll probably test out Snake, myself, if no one has by the time I get to it.

Snake could definitely DI.

I'm thinking this could at the very least lead to some really crazy traps, though. I'm thinking the major development out of this will be knowing what dthrow does to every character, and thus how to follow it up.

 

[The_Guide]

Question, what trow are you guys saying that can CG?

It is still d-throw?

From what I can tell, it's a grab release cg. 0_o

Edit: Phootbag's post has me confused. Still d-throw?

Yeah, definitely d-throw. I fail.

 

[Revven]

I actually already found this out about a month ago (for DK and Bowser). I didn''t say anything because when I tested it with DI, it absolutely didn't work (I didn't test Snake, though). Unless the porting to PSA somehow changed it, making it a true infinite, then I wouldn't worry. I'll probably test out Snake, myself, if no one has by the time I get to it.

DDD's .PAC file doesn't work so he wasn't ported over. Also, Dthrow was nerfed from our hitstun implementation, nothing we did made it not CG anymore.

 

[Plum]

I laughed out loud when I saw this...
Good gravy, makes me happy to be playing DDD seriously again.

Wish I could help going over what works with DI or not, but I don't have anybody with me to test either... Great find, even if it turns out DI would get any character out (which wouldn't seriously surprise me) this would be great to throw people off once or twice a match.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

DDD's .PAC file doesn't work so he wasn't ported over. Also, Dthrow was nerfed from our hitstun implementation, nothing we did made it not CG anymore.

*facepalms* I can't believe I forgot about D3 being one of the ones that currently doesn't work with PSA... But I didn't mean that the WBR specifically changed anything to his d-throw directly (but that comment of mine regarding the change is pointless now that I remember that you can't change D3 with PSA right now, so just pretend it never existed ).

 

[PKNintendo]

LOL.

D3's CG refuses to be nerfed.
Sakurai thought 2 steps ahead of us. In the event that a different version of Brawl is created, D3 would somehow retain his CG.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Heh... Speaking of that, in the beta bBrawl, D3 gained a second throw (u-throw) to use as a chaingrab...