King DDD+; rejoice for the chain grab!

[ph00tbag]

I was wrong. DDD might still have a CG. And it might be even gayer than before. Preliminary testing indicates that more than half of the cast may be CGable, and three characters may be infiniteable. Note that these CGs have not been tested for DI (I have no one to test it with). I just wanted to get the info out there, so more people could give it their own tests. The data from my hurried testing just now follow. I will keep this OP updated as more information becomes available.

*  - indicates that the CG either needs to be buffered, or has very strict timing.
** - IC's, obviously cannot be CG'd when there are two.
!  - Indicates that the CG can be SC'd.
†  - Indicates an infinite.

	CG	DI		CG	DI
Mario	Y*		DDD	N
Luigi	Y*		Pit	Y*
Peach	Y		Samus	Y!
Bowser	†	Y	ZSS	Y*
Yoshi	Y*		Ness	N
Wario	Y*		Lucas	Y*
DK	†	Y	Pikachu	N
Diddy	N		Jiggs	Y!
Falcon	N		Lucario	N
Fox	N		Squirt	Y*
Falco	N		Ivy	Y*
Wolf	N		Char	Y*
IC's	Y**		Marth	N
Link	N		Ike	N
Tink	Y*		Olimar	Y*
Zelda	Y		ROB	Y*
Sheik	N		G&W	Y!
Ganon	N		Snake	†	Y
Kirby	Y!		Sonic	N
MK	Y*	Y

Please, help me to test this. The more people working on this, the easier testing will be. Go over characters that have an N next to their name, too. You may catch something I missed.

WBR be advised. If you want to keep the CG fixed, now would be a good time to get cracking.

 

[goodoldganon]

Two things:

Are you going to write the D3 guide or is this just a post to gather those who want play D3 together? This forum has been around for 2 days so I'm not expecting perfection but we should keep it as neat, tidy, and professional as possible.

I'd suggest holding off on any sort of D3 guide at this moment in time since he is receiving buffs in the new Beta. I could discuss probably discuss them later.

Due to point 2 there obviously won't be a fuss over whatever happens here, I just wanted to give you and any other D3 mains a heads up.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Definitely worse due to the new game mechanics, despite some revamped tools. There's so much shieldstun now, good luck grabbing anyone. All he originally had was Bair and shieldgrab, and everything else was situational. Without shieldgrab he's a joke.

 

[JCaesar]

He's no joke. See Atomsk's DDD+. He's not top tier material, but he's still a force to be reckoned with. Instead of shieldcamping like in Brawl, you gotta preemptively strike, which DDD+ is good at.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I guess use Bair even more now.

 

[Plum]

He still has insane range to work with too.
Even as is, DDD is a solid character. Not top tier material with the nerfs his grab game took, but he still has a powerful gimp game, and everything that made him a powerful character minus the grab in vBrawl.

But I'm glad to see that he had some personal work done to him; looking forward to seeing it.
Although he is definitely solid, he feels like he needs something extra.

 

[CloneHat]

D3 is a punching bag, unfortunately. If you grab him with Falcon, you can sometimes get 2 knees in a row!

 

[Plum]

D3 is a punching bag, unfortunately. If you grab him with Falcon, you can sometimes get 2 knees in a row!

Well its kinda what he gets for being such a fattie

 

[Roxas215]

DDD+ is no joke even without cg. He still has insane range and people act like he can't shieldgrab no more. He can still shieldgrab. Also u can use him as a WoP now.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Yeah, he can still shieldgrab insanely unsafe things.

 

[Zodac]

DDD is a joke, he needs some buffs badly

"D3 is a punching bag, unfortunately. If you grab him with Falcon, you can sometimes get 2 knees in a row!"

this he gets comboed so bad, as a falcon main i love playing D3. i think we might even have a chain grab on him lol, down throw->down throw->to the edge->down air spike/knee

and so what if he gets a grab he can't do ****, up throw combo only lasts a little while.

 

[ph00tbag]

Are you going to write the D3 guide or is this just a post to gather those who want play D3 together? This forum has been around for 2 days so I'm not expecting perfection but we should keep it as neat, tidy, and professional as possible.

I don't really plan on making a guide for DDD+ since I only mess around with him from time to time. This is just a place for people who play DDD to get together and ruminate.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Ok 1st I wanna start off saying that Uthrow and FF nair's are DDD's main combo starters.

While D3 grab game got totally nerfed it is still amazing.

DDD's Dthrow passed from being the best throw to the worst in DDD's arsenal, it isn't useless but people can tech right in front of you and punish you. It also setups for a semi-tech chase but it isn't as effective as it was before.

Dthrow'ing off the ledge setups into a Dair most of the time.

DeDeDe's best throw is Uthrow, it is so useful in this game, it doesn't chaingrab but it setups up for soooo many things.

Uthrow setups into a Bair, Dair, Fair and an Uair on most of the cast and into a Nair on fast fallers.

A FF nair setups for a Bair and an Utilt at low percentages.

Now for some combos:

FF nair -> Utilt x3 into Uair = Easy 62% combo on most of the cast.

Uthrow -> Uair x2

Uthrow -> SH Dairx2 -> Fair = 52%, its an amazing combo.
----

DeDeDe isn't as defensive as he was before, with all the shieldstun its very hard to punish little mistakes with a simple grab but DeDeDe is still a solid character and he is an amazing WoP'er.

 

[Yingyay]

Man......DDD loses his chaingrabs and everyone gave up on him? (not everyone obviously)
Now you know how sheik mains felt when vbrawl was played for 30 minutes LOL
But honestly, he's not horrible, he has power and can WOP you until you belt the DDD player with your controller lol.
you can actually time his UpB to spike people trying to recover low now since auto-sweetspot is gone.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I think DeDeDe is more fun without his chaingrab.

People now can't john that DeDeDe is only good because of his chaingrab.

I'd say hes High tier <_<

 

[Yingyay]

Well he kinda was tops in vbrawl cuz of it lol.
Same reason Falco is and Ice Climbers kinda are.
Now we'll see wut happens. I dont think he'd be high just yet. ZSS, Falcon, Mario, Luigi........the rest of the cast is high tier for get it lol
Tops would be MetaKnight, Snake, Sheik, Marth, Fox, Falco, Peach*double to triple fair is madness*

ON Topic
Does f-tilt combo into anything, i cant try it out right now, but my theory is that it might be able to combo into a fsmash if it causes the opponent to fall (this would happen if they failed to tech of course)

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Just tested it.

If they are just infront of you

Ftilt -> Grab/Dtilt/SH Dair if they don't tech -- I tested it on Fox.

If they are not near king ddd but inside Ftilt range.

It setups for a tech chase pretty nicely because on fast fallers they auto fall due to hitstun.

 

[Yingyay]

Spacies beware!
So DDD can basically tech-chase with his ftilt against spacies? (if they can tech-roll)
Ftilt is even more useful now than in vbrawl i guess?

Off Topic
Why is regular brawl called "vbrawl" anyway? lol

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I'm unable to play B+ at the moment, but is he even fast enough to techchase?

The techroll speed is still sped up by 1.3x right?


His grab range might be able to compensate though.

Edit: vBrawl stands for Vanilla Brawl. Vanilla = unmodded game for whatever reason.

 

[Yingyay]

I think he can throw one of his waddle D's or watever their called if you can call a tech-roll.....i guess IDK havent played any1 but the cpu and i havent played at all today t test it out. but like you said, his grab should take care of it. He also still has his dash attack, Crouch cancel dtilt or Sliding Usmash. (all of these are theories btw)

Off Topic
Thanks. Vanila Brawl LMAO

 

[ZeonStar]

I dont think Dedede needs anything done to him at this point. Unless it becomes a problem later.

 

[shanus]

Not sure if people know or not, but we have some sexy changes made for D3 in the next build

 

[IC3R]

Not sure if people know or not, but we have some sexy changes made for D3 in the next build

Hurray! :D

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Hurray! :D

This, but with more exclamation points.

 

[crazycrackers]

Well he kinda was tops in vbrawl cuz of it lol.
Same reason Falco is and Ice Climbers kinda are.
Now we'll see wut happens. I dont think he'd be high just yet. ZSS, Falcon, Mario, Luigi........the rest of the cast is high tier for get it lol
Tops would be MetaKnight, Snake, Sheik, Marth, Fox, Falco, Peach*double to triple fair is madness*

ON Topic
Does f-tilt combo into anything, i cant try it out right now, but my theory is that it might be able to combo into a fsmash if it causes the opponent to fall (this would happen if they failed to tech of course)

As a Peach main in Brawl+, I wouldn't say shes top tier. But I will say that she is WHOOP @$$. Feeble shields are basically useless against her XD. She can do combos for like 80% too. :D

ANYWAY, I find D3 to be about mid-tier now. He has some nice combos and great edgeguarding but hes really easy to combo and he definately took a hefty blow from brawl to brawl+....I'm curious to see what these changes to D3 are....

 

[sMexy-Blu]

CF has a gay Dthrow CG on DeDeDe.

<_<

Dthrow Dthrow -> Knee or Dair spike.

 

[MasterRaichu]

Any chance those changes include NOT throwing existing Dees/Doos when pressing A?

 

[The Cape]

Expanding on what Shanus said.

Changes are in the description:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSP3m3Gxf84

A little preview for the King's loyal fans.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Jab made faster?

Dair combos?

<3

 

[crazycrackers]

ftilt cape properties? what what what?

 

[shanus]

ftilt cape properties? what what what?

That part isnt in anymore.

 

[kupo15]

Any chance those changes include NOT throwing existing Dees/Doos when pressing A?

Yes, can we not have this happen? I'm sure this can be done easily through the action modifier if its different than the initial throw

 

[Revven]

Yes, can we not have this happen? I'm sure this can be done easily through the action modifier if its different than the initial throw

We want to do it, we just don't have the code.

 

[kupo15]

We want to do it, we just don't have the code.

Can an action modifier work which we do have? What is the animation ID for it and is it the same as the initial throw?

 

[Revven]

Can an action modifier work which we do have? What is the animation ID for it and is it the same as the initial throw?

NO idea, might be a good idea to ask Almas about that or Phantom Wings.

 

[Popertop]

Yeah, he can still shieldgrab insanely unsafe things.

just because you can't shieldgrab after everything?
come on now. bee smrt.

 

[Turbo Ether]

just because you can't shieldgrab after everything?
come on now. bee smrt.

It's already easy enough to not get constantly shieldgrabbed by DDD in regular Brawl, if you actually space your attacks correctly. The extra shieldstun in Brawl+ is unnecessary.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

I agree totally with that.

Take out a little of shieldstun.

 

[Revven]

I agree totally with that.

Take out a little of shieldstun.

We did in the latest nightly build.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

New dair is raaaaaaaape.