Ken's quote

[IrArby]

Yes, this is true but lesser minds with greater characters often win. Thus the neccessity of a tier list.

However, the characters aren't simply extensions of minds or else they wouldn't have the limitations specific to them. Like the Matrix.

For the record, there technically are ways around him but these are means that work more in theory than in practice. Practically speaking, your opponent has these same options and in this matchup better and more options.

Seriously though, w/e I don't feel like debating about who's playable against who and why. I just wanna know when and where Evo is. Can someone tell me that?

 

[Steel]

Evo is August 8-10 i think.

 

[MarKO X]

evo 08 is August 8 - 10, in Vegas, on the strip, according to a Street Fighter head I know on mySpace named Stu.

But uh... this has sparked some interest in Ken... I looked him up (or tried to look him up) on YouTube playing Brawl... and... uh... well, there's this one, supposedly the most recent one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx-vtXgYWbA

It didn't look to revolutionary to me...

 

[IrArby]

Thank you Steel2nd and MarKO X.

Man I almost didn't believe that was Ken (since there have been more than a few fakes circulating utube lately) until I saw the awesome DI around 2:23. Whats up with the NO Dancing Blade? A lot of dash attacks? The only thing that seemed original was the dash > jump > dair that was supposed to set up for a Fsmash I'm guessing since he tried it a couple times.
I watched the 2nd vid too (first of the set). 1:22 missed Dsmash by Isai and I actually felt an Fsmash coming from Ken but it never did. The spacing had be to close to perfect there. 3:17 - 3:30ish is pure noobing, simple as that.

The fact that he lost the first match and won the second to a Falcon that SD'd twice (even if it was Isai he's still Ken so that shouldn't matter) doesn't say much for him at this point. Maybe he's not playing his best here to lull us into a false sense of security that he won't deliver at EVO but really will.

And lol Falcon's like only kill move that you can set up for onstage the Dsmash, for roll spammers.

Well good luck at EVO Ken . . . where ever you are . . . (in dreamy voice that echoes a lot)

 

[Pierce7d]

Eh, I won't believe that's Ken unlesss Ken comes here and says that it's him.

Furthermore . . . I do like his uses of Dair/Dash Attack., whoever that was.

 

[IrArby]

Actually his dash attacks were pretty bad since like none of them tipped which is the point (clever play on words right?)

 

[Pierce7d]

But, they connected, which is good. Most people don't throw Dash attacks at all, but I think it's Marth's longest ranged attack.

 

[IrArby]

THey don't throw them for good reasons:

A. If you miss your wide open in your post lag

B. Its really only good if its tipped

C. Even if its tipped, they'll probably have enough time to recover since hitstun is so small that it takes less time to recover from the hit then being the one doing the hitting.

D. It usually won't chain into anything else

E. It doesn't kill of have great knockback so its not useful for combos or KOs thus not very useful.

I haven't played the game in over a week but I'm still pretty sure all of those reasons are accurate. Ken may have been trying to hit with the middle so as to not send them to far to try and it again.

 

[VietGeek]

Considering the profile was made on July 4th, and that any usernames relating to smash, videos, or TV in combination were fakers using well-known names to generate views for videos from questionable players.

Plus, IIRC, Isai exclusively plays the original Smash now, and showed distaste to both Melee and Brawl. That's what I heard anyway.

EDIT: I mean that usernames like smashvids, smashvideosTV, or whatever generic names seem to be account showing fake videos for the sake of doing so.

 

[∫unk]

That's not true. Isai just likes 64 more as a system in general. He doesn't exclusively play anything.

And that video is ridiculously fake if you couldn't immediately tell. Early dolphin slashes worked in melee, they never work against someone good in brawl because you have so much more time to react. Also the d-air approach is horrendous. Finally one of Ken's best attributes as a player was spacing and this player has some of the worst spacing I've seen from a Marth.

 

[IrArby]

Exactly, Like I said he was hitting with the center of the blade on like everything. I don't think Ken would just shrug off Dancing Blade, one of the best natural combos in the game. I watched the vid again after I posted and had some serious doubts. I doubt Ken will put out vids since he's supposedly Revolutionizing Marth and EVO supposed to be the big emmergence.

Also, despite Isai being one of if not THE Best Falcon in Melee, I doubt he'd continue playing him in Brawl. No one wants to lose that badly.

 

[Royal Altean]

The ones shaping Marth's metagame are right here in the thick of things.

...

The Marth community needs no savior.

Amen Emblem Lord!

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

It surprises me to what lengths you guys go to defend "Ken". Supporting the use of Marth's dash attack when anyone with some common sense and a clear head can tell firstly that the dash attack is crap, and that secondly that's not Ken.

I hold respect for Ken as he's very good at Smash, but I don't think he'll be able to "revolutionize" the marth metagame. Things like that just don't happen nowadays.

 

[GhettoSheep]

evo 08 is August 8 - 10, in Vegas, on the strip, according to a Street Fighter head I know on mySpace named Stu.

But uh... this has sparked some interest in Ken... I looked him up (or tried to look him up) on YouTube playing Brawl... and... uh... well, there's this one, supposedly the most recent one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx-vtXgYWbA

It didn't look to revolutionary to me...

That is a ridiculous fake, people do it all the time. There was maybe one or two moments where they did something actually impressive. That was not a world champion playing, not even close. WTF uses dash attack? that just isn't ken and isai, idk how people could believe that

 

[xandeR-]

First of all, a note: this was an incredibly interesting thread to read through. We need more threads like this on the boards.

And secondly, I think that Brawl needs it's first big tournament before we start seeing the true placements of characters on tier lists.

As everyone knows, wave dashing wasn't discovered right away in melee and Ken's complete dominance made Marth a sort of legend in the game.

All that stemmed from tourneys, big ones, which haven't really taken place yet.

Until then, the best we can do is explore the character, try stuff out and see what we come up with. I'd love to see a continous post of "Maybe..." or "Try this" threads on this board. It would advance the character significantly.

In fact, I think I'm going to spearhead such an effort if I can. Others join if you wish but I would like to see Brawl reach the popularity that Melee had in competition.

Whether you all like it or not, Ken may be the key to getting there. We'll see at EVO.

 

[DarkRunner00]

well...

Well...

Oh, they're gonna video matches at EVO I hope? persay Ken's matches?

Good or bad, I won't be there and I'd like to know if they'll be youtube-access able...

(continuity)

Well, also when Wave dashing was first discovered it was a joke... and it's hard finding techniques... when there's not much we do as a community other than talk about tactics... not actual gameplay exploits...
Many chracters already have will and crazy glitches, that revolutionized their gameplay

i.e. Mortar Slide (DAC), QuACk (with QuACk lock), Bomb Smash, CGs, MK Infinite Cape, Super Armor (Eruption and Aether), Glideshifting... I don't know all the techniques (and surely not every character has glitches of any use)

But most of Marth's gamplay relies on his basic attacks (with exception of Falling Fair, and IASA frames on lots of his attacks), We've discovered quite a bit, Junk explored DB didn't stop momentum, as a group we've fiqured out methods of creating the wall of defence with Dtilt, we've discussed combos that would do nicely... and again, Marth's gameplay really relies on the skill of the player... (and that is why I'm an awful Marth)...

Weak minds w/ strong characters do have advantages over strong minds w/ weak characters... I'm not saying a novice can defeat someone like EL or Steel2nd, the competitive players on the Marth forums... but seriously... Marth hasn't been over the edge with techniques...

Everything I've seen discussed is common sense... and react and punish... react and punish... (though majority of gameplay SHOULD be like that)...

I'm not saying Marth is bad, obviously he's not he is ranked 4rth or 5th in the tournament rankings... Under... G&W, Snake, MK, D3...

And though I don't wanna say we haven't done much, because WE HAVE... with out a lot of the discussions on this board, I'm sure me and a lot of the people who thank the hard working individuals who do "up" Marth's play would be awful...

If we can get some good sh*t going for Marth, it would be cool... and it could bring Marth on actual equals with his troublesome counters...

I talk so much for being no one, but I believe in Marth haha, and actually I believe in Ken

 

[legion598]

what about drago D:

 

[Cisne]

If there are no hopes for Ken doing what he says he is going to do, then why im looking at a 137 posts thread ?

Ill welcome any improves on Marth´s metagame.

 

[IrArby]

Thinking logically nearly all of Marths moves have their uses. Marth's moves are the same as they were in Melee though which ones are his "bread and butter" moves have changed. Come to think of it, the frequently used moves by Marths in Brawl are much like Roy in Melee (d-tilt and forward B combos strings).
I was thinking of going through all of Marth's moves but that would be redundant. Basically, the biggest change from Melee Marth to Brawl Marth is Aerials aren't a very good or very safe approach. D-tilt is more useful. I don't think its that much better just Marth relies on it more. All of this was figured out pretty early. Any other stylistic changes to his gameplay have been minor to those two. Ken doesn't have a new character to work with nor is here one of the first to work with Marth. His remaining moves don't have any massive latent potential. Ken may do well with Marth, but even if he wins it'll mostly be because he implemented what has already been used for Marths in a very effective way with minimal mistakes. Still, props to Ken.

 

[Genetic]

Hmm, if Ken could do for Brawl what he did for Melee, then that would be quite incredible. Didn't he figure out the Reverse Dolphin Slash? Not to mention his Ken Kill, and plus, his spacing was just GODLY.

 

[GhettoSheep]

Ken had godly tech skill and spacing. But his most important asset has always been his epic mindgames. He reads his opponents so well its kinda scary at times. He's still going to have that in brawl, and I'm sure he'll be able to show us some other things as well. I really don't know why people give him so much ****. People just need to have an open mind and try to learn from him when the evo vids come out. But I feel like a lot of people will just say "ohh that's not 'revolutionary' Ken's full of ****"

August 10th will be a good day from the marth community I'm sure. I don't think a lot of the new smashers understand everything he did for the melee metagame. And nobody thought he would do it then either. Just be excited to learn something new people.

 

[Killress]

 

[IrArby]

Evo will have items. Marth has a really freakin slow throw so that'll be annoying.

Ken isn't known for his tech skill. That'd be M2K and Cactuar. Brawl has very limited mindgames which means either Ken will have less to read (thus owning all the easier) or he'll get read pretty easy himself. Personally, I think both will end up happening the real question is which one in what degree.

People give him **** since he's at times arrogant or simply unkind but I've heard M2K can be a real dueshbag too (even if he's not known to be) but I don't really care how either guy is in person. I respect them enormously regardless of their dispositions.

I'm not entirely sure on this but, I'm pretty sure no one expected him to revolutionize Melee Marth since no one knew him before then (the competitive scene was still so small at this point right?) I could be wrong though since I haven't followed Competitve Melee since the beginning or anything.

Oh and lol at the "Ken Kill" The Reverse Dolphin Slash isn't a big staple or Melee Marth's game. This is definetly one of his lesser Marth techs/strats (simply because he has so many other awesome ones).

 

[The_Dark_Zero]

KEN will probably stick to his word. Something tells me Marth will become better..........Who knows, just a thought...

 

[King of Hoboz]

He may be right about his revolutionary things...who knows, he may show his "revolutionary" thing at a later date.

Even though I wasn't as nearly impressed with the vids I saw as I expected it still proves Ken hasn't lost his touch, hell, I doubt I could space that well, he hit with the very tip of the tip alot, that's epic.

 

[∫unk]

Stop posting in this thread.

His Marth wasn't revolutionary. Very good, but not revolutionary.

Most of you guys are saying so many incorrect things I can't fix all of them.

 

[IDK]

nothing like bumping a REALLY old thread. it should be closed or something.

 

[Popertop]

Where are the evo vids?

 

[Blistering Speed]

See the ken competing at EVO thread and no Kens marth wasn't revolutionary, but honestly, how could someone revolutionise a character in one tournament. Not to mention Ken was virtually the only one very good at Marth when he was changing the metagame in Melee, in Brawl we've got EL, Neo, Roy R etc

 

[Falconv1.0]

Claiming one could revolutionize a character after not being seen doing anything Brawl related for a ****ing while is kinda...I cant think of any other word besides ignorant.

Ehh


(I assume he hasn't done anything Brawl related, because I haven't hear anything about him/from him for the last 5 months.)

 

[Newuser12345215]

Claiming one could revolutionize a character after not being seen doing anything Brawl related for a ****ing while is kinda...I cant think of any other word besides ignorant.

Ehh


(I assume he hasn't done anything Brawl related, because I haven't hear anything about him/from him for the last 5 months.)

He recently did a couple of tournaments, EVO was one of them, he placed 2nd place, losing to someone named "CPU".

Here are 2 videos from the tournament btw

 

[Pierce7d]

Wow, I'm totally not impressed. He's not bad, but you would think that he'd at least MASTER using items.

And some of his opponent's were trash. I can almost say with full confidence that I would've won EVO if I had gone.

Actually, I would've done the smart thing, and mained Sonic, and camped like a gay, lol.

 

[TheX0913]

Hmm, if Ken could do for Brawl what he did for Melee, then that would be quite incredible. Didn't he figure out the Reverse Dolphin Slash? Not to mention his Ken Kill, and plus, his spacing was just GODLY.

speaking of spacing you should check out this guide...http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187977
from what i see it helps in spacing alot.

 

[Harbinger631]

Wow, I'm totally not impressed. He's not bad, but you would think that he'd at least MASTER using items.

And some of his opponent's were trash. I can almost say with full confidence that I would've won EVO if I had gone.

Actually, I would've done the smart thing, and mained Sonic, and camped like a gay, lol.

You should definately go to the next one then. Prize money would pay for travel expenses, and you'll certainly win because the competition clearly is terrible.. Why didn't you go to this one?

 

[Nibbity]

Actually, I would've done the smart thing, and mained Sonic, and camped like a gay, lol.

Did a Sonic player win? Because honestly that sounds like a good idea haha, and I saw Ken played Wolf also, maybe he utilized Wolf's final smash into a large amount of his technique?

 

[Harbinger631]

No a ROB won.

 

[PK Hexagon]

You should definately go to the next one then. Prize money would pay for travel expenses, and you'll certainly win because the competition clearly is terrible.. Why didn't you go to this one?

Because typing things on a message board is far easier than actually doing them in real life.

 

[Sky`]

i think dat ken wil b best n brawl cuz he wus the best in mele n he wil mak marth gud cuz ov he is rly good neway.

 

[Sky`]

The minute the man stops placing well I promise to stop mentioning him.

Do you think I LIKE saying Inui places well?

Posting something like that makes me want to burst into tears because it upsets me so much to know such an asshat is keeping Marth's tourney rankings up there.

Cril: M2K is the best Melee Marth. Best Brawl Marth is 3 way tie between NEO, Roy_R, and Meep.

Meep? Wtf?
***** don't even play Marth, he plays Snake. Er, Mains Snake.

He isn't Thaat good. I mean, he's amazing, but he's no DSF.
Mike Haze Marth > Meeps.

He's good with snake though.

 

[Minato]

Did a Sonic player win? Because honestly that sounds like a good idea haha, and I saw Ken played Wolf also, maybe he utilized Wolf's final smash into a large amount of his technique?

I saw a Sonic player there, (Ski I think) and he did pretty well since items help out Sonic a lot. Especially the Final Smash.