Joker is a perfect example of why 3rd party characters (like HIM) don't belong in Super Smash Bros.

[Gallowglass]

Sakurai outright stated that CastleVania was strongly requested. I also admit I made a mistake, as Sakurai mentioned Simon wasn't who was initially considered, but rather Alucard. Alucard barely even got considered as a pick here yet Sakurai said Alucard was more popular, though he decided to pick the Belmonts because of the franchise's roots. Wonder how this thread would have been if Alucard was added as he was in the Aria games, even playable in one, but is mostly known for a title that was never on Nintendo

I only knew Alucard from Castlevania 3 and didn't even know he was from Symphony of the Night. I also thought Symphony of the Night was ported to Nintendo but apparently not (So I guess Richter is on my list). I'm still digging for information about the Ballot results. I've got articles about an interview with Nintendo Dream Magazine but I can't find the actual source (I'm a stickler about primary sources). I know the actual announcement video didn't mention anyone besides Bayonetta.

https://nintendowire.com/news/2019/...lmost-in-smash-bros-ultimate-and-other-facts/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1JERhUoQoU

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I only knew Alucard from Castlevania 3 and didn't even know he was from Symphony of the Night. I also thought Symphony of the Night was ported to Nintendo but apparently not (So I guess Richter is on my list). I'm still digging for information about the Ballot results. I've got articles about an interview with Nintendo Dream Magazine but I can't find the actual source (I'm a stickler about primary sources). I know the actual announcement video didn't mention anyone besides Bayonetta.

https://nintendowire.com/news/2019/...lmost-in-smash-bros-ultimate-and-other-facts/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1JERhUoQoU

Sakurai's wording on Simon's arrival implied Castlevania was long overdue in terms of fan demand and he later confirmed it

[Castlevania] was highly requested in the Smash Ballot, and when it came time to add new content Sakurai says his choices were limited.

(see next) pic.twitter.com/T2wx5aGnLf

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) December 17, 2018

 

[Deleted member]

I doubt many people genuinely believe we shouldn't have any third-parties. It's just that a lot of people aren't satisfied with the type of third-parties we're getting.


I dunno. Maybe I should just stop responding to this thread. Feels like no matter what I say or how detailed I get with my explanations, people just want to fire back at me with, "No, your opinions are awful, wrong, and bad. All third-parties are equal, everyone likes them, and the future of Smash should be lots and lots of third-parties."

I don't think Smash should focus on third-parties. I'll just leave it at that for now.

I agree and I'm not even going to finish reading the rest of this thread. I've said what I wanted to say. Peace

 

[Dee Dude]

Meh, I don’t care if people dislike 3rd parties or not, that’s their opinion and I’ll respect.

But I think guys like Snake, Sonic, and even Cloud earned their spots in the series, and if anything it brings more excitement to the crowd outside of this community.

Since Isaac, Dixie, Waluigi, Rex etc are still Nintendo characters regardless, they’ll always have a chance to be playable no matter how many years or decades a new Smash takes.

But a one-time opportunity to get a guy like Sora who’s from a massively well-known, successful, and popular series like Kingdom Hearts? Hell yeah, sign me up on him!

 

[TheDuke54]

I agree with things you stated Mewtwo, but your thread title and the way you worded your first post came off strongly. So it's not surprising when the other side of the argument pushes back just as hard or harder.

I didn't care for Bayonetta's inclusion in Smash4. Mainly because I never heard of her before then and I wanted someone else that I would had recognized. It didn't help that she was also seriously broken pre-patch and still a pain to deal with post. I feel the same way with Joker's inclusion. Don't know who he is and still don't really. It'd be cool if they brought his game over to the Switch or the next installment.

Sort of like how Fire Emblem popped into Melee and then the next year we got Fire Emblem gba. If nothing comes of it and we don't get any kind of Persona game it's going to feel like his series didn't deserve to be included as much as other characters who have some history with Nintendo whether small or big.

 

[The DanMan051]

This is what statistics is use for. Of course we can't compile data of all 10 million+ fans and ask what their opinions are but we can gather groups of data and compile them to get a close estimate of trends we see. Of all the sources that I've looked at I haven't seen any supporting Joker. I have seen support for various Persona characters but all of them combine seem to shadow the Nintendo characters I've mention above. As for the K.Rool and Ridley I know that fan base has been around since people have been speculating for Brawl (possibly earlier) and the amount of discussion and debate for me only demonstrates their popularity and recognition.

There's a certain Mark Twain quote my Introduction to Marketing teacher loved:
"There's lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Any statistics you can compile are still just going to be from the most vocal online fans and not really representative of the silent majority.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Cloud was a meme pick

Only because he had huge support in Brawl and most people scoffed at the idea.

He's the most comparable character to Ridley in that regard.

 

[osby]

I agree and I'm not even going to finish reading the rest of this thread. I've said what I wanted to say. Peace

So, you didn't make this thread to make a genuine discussion but just wanted to rant and not listen to other people's arguments.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, you didn't make this thread to make a genuine discussion but just wanted to rant and not listen to other people's arguments.

He and other users have commented they feel like they aren't being listened to.

He's fed up with that, not discussion at large.

 

[Doopsnogg32]

wutt......

 

[Coolboy]

I agree and I'm not even going to finish reading the rest of this thread. I've said what I wanted to say. Peace

is the reason because alot of people disagree with you and say it in a harsh way?
when you start something then at least finish it >~>

 

[Perkilator]

I agree and I'm not even going to finish reading the rest of this thread. I've said what I wanted to say. Peace

In that case, this thread might as well be closed. What’s the point of starting something if you can’t even be bothered to finish it?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Only because he had huge support in Brawl and most people scoffed at the idea.

He's the most comparable character to Ridley in that regard.

You're gonna think I'm dumb but I genuinely forgot to type in 'considered'. I was running on 3 hours of sleep then

 

[UserKev]

In that case, this thread might as well be closed. What’s the point of starting something if you can’t even be bothered to finish it?

He didn't start anything. Dude was just sharing his opinion and now he said his peace. Damn, Leave dude alone.

No one has time to argue "Forever"

 

[SmashChu]

...Wow... you really... can't debate at all.

A dozen people in a thread on a fan forum count as "a lot" compared to the reactions of the overall gaming public?
The only likely 1st party characters are from upcoming games, and even then something tells me Nintendo would want to push the likes of Astral Chain more than most other options.

It's funny when you have someone claim "OH YOU CAN'T DEBATE" and then make a dumb point.

First, your post doesn't address what I was saying. I provided a list of characters who aren't D-listers and would get people excited (two of them in particular are the most popular and one if the most popular character in Japan). If you are going to claim others can't debate, maybe first pay attention to what they are saying, especially if you are responding to that.

I'll probably make a larger response later on but I've noticed a lot of people are making the same tired arguments here. In regards to the "No Nintendo characters left" diatribe, you can easily point to a list of recent characters that would get people excited with many of them being the most popular characters. Hell, I even left off one of the most popular characters: Waluigi. Here is Reddit's Megapoll from before Ultimate's reveal. Waluigi beat the second place character by 411 votes, or 33%. 6 of the top 10 are Nintendo characters (though Banjo was owned by Nintendo at one point). Of those 6, only one got in. All of the honorable mentions are Nintendo. "But fan forums," this poll had 6,500 votes so it's not small in the slightest. So, again, this argument that "There is just no one from Nintendo" doesn't seem to hold much water.

If you want to be good at arguing, actually provide a counter argument.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

He didn't start anything. Dude was just sharing his opinion and now he said his peace. Damn, Leave dude alone.

No one has time to argue "Forever"

If they never intended to engage in discussion with the responses to the thread than this counts as a rant thread and should be closed. If @Mewtwo has no intention of reading the responses, than the OP would belong more on Reddit or some other forum and not here.

Refusing to read the responses is just plain disrespectful.

 

[Deleted member]

What the Sam Hill is going on here?

 

[Captain Shades]

What the Sam Hill is going on here?

The Gamers are Rising Up

Clearly that’s what’s transpiring here...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly this reminds me of people on Ultimate threads playing with the idea of adding a new character to every franchise last year with people asking "Who's Raiden?" because that name popped up a lot. You know, the character who's mere existence caused quite a discussion when he turned out to be the main character of MGS2 despite him not being in the marketing at all.

 

[The DanMan051]

What the Sam Hill is going on here?

Pretty sure it's San Hill, but
Love, war, and pure insanity-- mostly the latter two.

Honestly this reminds me of people on Ultimate threads playing with the idea of adding a new character to every franchise last year with people asking "Who's Raiden?" because that name popped up a lot. You know, the character who's mere existence caused quite a discussion when he turned out to be the main character of MGS2 despite him not being in the marketing at all.

Heck, Metal Gear Rising is just as much of a thing-- I knew about the Rules of Nature memes (and took a liking to the instrumental version of Stains of Time) well before I actually played an MGS game myself.

I think it's telling that the character thread for Erdrick (a character that encompasses recurring heroes throughout one of the series to codify the JRPG genre that's bigger than Final Fantasy in Japan and has been getting fairly regularly localized releases as long as I've been alive) was started in 2008... and has fewer pages than the Ninten thread started two years ago.

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty sure it's San Hill, but
Love, war, and pure insanity-- mostly the latter two.


Heck, Metal Gear Rising is just as much of a thing-- I knew about the Rules of Nature memes (and took a liking to the instrumental version of Stains of Time) well before I actually played an MGS game myself.

I think it's telling that the character thread for Erdrick (a character that encompasses recurring heroes throughout one of the series to codify the JRPG genre that's bigger than Final Fantasy in Japan and has been getting fairly regularly localized releases as long as I've been alive) was started in 2008... and has fewer pages than the Ninten thread started two years ago.

I've always heard Sam Hill. My life is a lie

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Pretty sure it's San Hill, but
Love, war, and pure insanity-- mostly the latter two.


Heck, Metal Gear Rising is just as much of a thing-- I knew about the Rules of Nature memes (and took a liking to the instrumental version of Stains of Time) well before I actually played an MGS game myself.

I think it's telling that the character thread for Erdrick (a character that encompasses recurring heroes throughout one of the series to codify the JRPG genre that's bigger than Final Fantasy in Japan and has been getting fairly regularly localized releases as long as I've been alive) was started in 2008... and has fewer pages than the Ninten thread started two years ago.

That's the Smash Bubble for you. a user known as tehponycorn actually wrote a small piece on it as to what the Smash Bubble is and evidence of it's existence. To make your Erdrick point even better, lots of people on this website, myself included, never even heard of the character yet helped define RPGs to what they are, had a launch similar to Halo 3 (which for those who don't know was actually a HUGE deal back then) and was even praised by Sakurai

 

[Teeb147]

He didn't start anything. Dude was just sharing his opinion and now he said his peace. Damn, Leave dude alone.

No one has time to argue "Forever"

You can't make a thread just to rant. The thread title already made it clear it could be about ranting one point. Each side deserves to be listened to, not just one.
In my opinion the thread title should either be changed for a broader discussion, or the thread whould be closed.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

This thread is stupid lmao. Anyone else catch that the OP complains about the idea of Steve (Who's on Nintendo with Nintendo heavily pushing Minecraft) and Doomguy (Who's franchise has always been on Nintendo and is even having the highly anticipated Doom Eternal go on the Switch with the Switch version being announced at the same time as the other versions alongside fitting the 'important to gaming history' rule)?

Fully agree, i know there are five more pages after this but by page 3 I felt this thread was made just to troll people. Every argument is short-sighted and stupid with lots of cases of missing the point.
The argument essentially boiled down to "well I didn't want Joker to get in so no third-parties should've gotten in" initially ignoring megaman and sonic, then when THAT was brought to their attention their response was essentially was "well you might have a point there but...." seriously this whole topic feels pointless to a degree unless you bring up how important 3rd-parties are to other systems.

 

[Coolboy]

You can't make a thread just to rant.

try telling that to the whole internet..that wouldn't go well for you xD
we all rant i do too, i just rant more where i know i can haha

 

[Teeb147]

try telling that to the whole internet..that wouldn't go well for you xD
we all rant i do too, i just rant more where i know i can haha

You can't make a thread for the sole purpose of one person or side ranting. Threads like that can get closed here.

 

[The DanMan051]

I've always heard Sam Hill. My life is a lie

...Okay, yeah you were right. It's Sam HIll.
"San Hill" is... an alien from Star Wars?

To slightly more address the thread: I feel like a "no 3rd parties at all" position is more logically sound and easier to defend than a selective 3rd parties one. Because then you can at least use a Pandora's Box argument.

That's the Smash Bubble for you. a user known as tehponycorn actually wrote a small piece on it as to what the Smash Bubble is and evidence of it's existence. To make your Erdrick point even better, lots of people on this website, myself included, never even heard of the character yet helped define RPGs to what they are, had a launch similar to Halo 3 (which for those who don't know was actually a HUGE deal back then) and was even praised by Sakurai

I know him decently well; more or less a compatriot during the days of the Grinch Leak. "The Smash Bubble" is a nicer way to label an echo chamber.

I first heard of Erdrick in a Did You Know Gaming video half a decade ago, so seeing so many people have no idea who was or what he was related to struck me as odd.

Another thing related to the "Smash Bubble": so many people act like Leon is the face of Resident Evil and claim that RE4 is the best-selling and most popular game in the series.
...But when you tally everything up (including re-releases), RE5 and 6 each have it beaten by a couple million with 5 being the clear #1. And Leon isn't nearly as actively utilized by Capcom as Chris and Jill are (especially Chris, as he was the only pre-RE7 character to appear in RE7).

This relates to the Joker shock; Persona is the second biggest console series Sega's got outside of Sonic (I called Joker for DLC here and several other places half a year before he was announced). ...Yet you had people thinking freaking Jack Frost would be a better choice/stood more of a chance. People take the (fan created, mind you-- as far as I can tell, Nintendo has never labelled the games as such or at least not in the past decade) term of "mascot fighter" way too literally.

 

[Christian_CAO]

... opinions are like mixtapes~
Nobody wants to hear yours 'u' (mine included '3')

jokes aside, it's fine you feel that way. 3rd parties are fine. No real reason to dislike them outside of wanting to be contrary for the sake of being contrary.
I have a friend who only got smash because of Joker (Isabelle helped too but he was sold on Jokey boi Lupin the 3rd Stand the man).

Nintendo fans will always buy smash regardless of what characters are in it (because we're sheeple).
A third party character potentially expands the audience and fishes in some new fans.
No need to waste brain cells complaining about characters already implemented in the game.
Let's waste them wanting characters who aren't :3

 

[Nemuresu]

It's funny when you have someone claim "OH YOU CAN'T DEBATE" and then make a dumb point.

First, your post doesn't address what I was saying. I provided a list of characters who aren't D-listers and would get people excited (two of them in particular are the most popular and one if the most popular character in Japan). If you are going to claim others can't debate, maybe first pay attention to what they are saying, especially if you are responding to that.

I'll probably make a larger response later on but I've noticed a lot of people are making the same tired arguments here. In regards to the "No Nintendo characters left" diatribe, you can easily point to a list of recent characters that would get people excited with many of them being the most popular characters. Hell, I even left off one of the most popular characters: Waluigi. Here is Reddit's Megapoll from before Ultimate's reveal. Waluigi beat the second place character by 411 votes, or 33%. 6 of the top 10 are Nintendo characters (though Banjo was owned by Nintendo at one point). Of those 6, only one got in. All of the honorable mentions are Nintendo. "But fan forums," this poll had 6,500 votes so it's not small in the slightest. So, again, this argument that "There is just no one from Nintendo" doesn't seem to hold much water.

If you want to be good at arguing, actually provide a counter argument.

Funny you like to say "you're not good at arguing" yet your argument has a fatal flaw to it: you're using an Assist Trophy to prove your point where "there are still many Nintendo characters to include", when in fact, there are good reasons to dismiss them.

Remember people campaigning for characters like Ridley or Chrom for last game's DLC cycle? Because I do, and both characters had to wait until this entry to appear.

Not good enough? Here's a bigger question: why should we expect assists or Mii costumes to suddenly become playable in this DLC cycle? We never saw that before and what we've seen so far is not a good indicator of them happening. In fact, what happened last game with costumes like King K. Rool and Lloyd, added to Piranha Plant's absence as a spirit until being included, and Joker and all the content he came with lead to believe otherwise.

The fact that we didn't see the former two as playable in last game shows that they were intentionally meant to compensate for the character's absence. Hell, that was even a highlight when Sakurai introduced Rex's costume in November's Direct, and I quote:

I hope this outfit makes you feel like you're playing as Rex.

As for Joker, here's the thing: how do you make exclusive spirit boards for Rex, Spring Man, Captain Toad or Bandana Dee when the regular board is already filled with tons of spirits that could easily be part of such?

It's been already said that Astral Chain is not assured to be success, let alone that assuring a spot in Smash. Case in point: Wonderful 101. Game's easily one of the best titles in the Wii U library, yet it sold terribly and got reduced to a bunch of trophies in 4.

The only ones you brought that could make sense are the Dragalia Lost character and the SwSh pokémon, and even then, I gotta say with the latter that it can still not happen due to the fact that we've had to instances of a Nintendo character coming as DLC and neither of them fit with the packages that will come in this pass (Corrin didn't have a stage even though there should be enough places in Fates to justify one, while Piranha Plant didn't even have songs), quite tells everyone will be coming from new franchises.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Funny you like to say "you're not good at arguing" yet your argument has a fatal flaw to it: you're using an Assist Trophy to prove your point where "there are still many Nintendo characters to include", when in fact, there are good reasons to dismiss them.

Remember people campaigning for characters like Ridley or Chrom for last game's DLC cycle? Because I do, and both characters had to wait until this entry to appear.

Not good enough? Here's a bigger question: why should we expect assists or Mii costumes to suddenly become playable in this DLC cycle? We never saw that before and what we've seen so far is not a good indicator of them happening. In fact, what happened last game with costumes like King K. Rool and Lloyd, added to Piranha Plant's absence as a spirit until being included, and Joker and all the content he came with lead to believe otherwise.

The fact that we didn't see the former two as playable in last game shows that they were intentionally meant to compensate for the character's absence. Hell, that was even a highlight when Sakurai introduced Rex's costume in November's Direct, and I quote:


As for Joker, here's the thing: how do you make exclusive spirit boards for Rex, Spring Man, Captain Toad or Bandana Dee when the regular board is already filled with tons of spirits that could easily be part of such?

It's been already said that Astral Chain is not assured to be success, let alone that assuring a spot in Smash. Case in point: Wonderful 101. Game's easily one of the best titles in the Wii U library, yet it sold terribly and got reduced to a bunch of trophies in 4.

The only ones you brought that could make sense are the Dragalia Lost character and the SwSh pokémon, and even then, I gotta say with the latter that it can still not happen due to the fact that we've had to instances of a Nintendo character coming as DLC and neither of them fit with the packages that will come in this pass (Corrin didn't have a stage even though there should be enough places in Fates to justify one, while Piranha Plant didn't even have songs), quite tells everyone will be coming from new franchises.

Honestly you should just ignore him. Smashchu has argued that we could and should sue Nintendo for adding Bayonetta
https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/page-2081#post-22177029 https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/post-22177279 https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/page-2082#post-22177117 https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/page-2082#post-22177189

There's more but I feel that alone is enough proof he shouldn't even be considered arguing against

 

[Nemuresu]

Honestly you should just ignore him. Smashchu has argued that we could and should sue Nintendo for adding Bayonetta
https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/page-2081#post-22177029 https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/post-22177279 https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/page-2082#post-22177117 https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/page-2082#post-22177189

There's more but I feel that alone is enough proof he shouldn't even be considered arguing against

Tsk tsk, talking about madness. The Ballot was insisted to not be a popularity contest, yet there's still a need to resort to this kind of **** just because it wasn't the "real winner".
Okay then, I'll stop.

 

[meleebrawler]

Funny you like to say "you're not good at arguing" yet your argument has a fatal flaw to it: you're using an Assist Trophy to prove your point where "there are still many Nintendo characters to include", when in fact, there are good reasons to dismiss them.

Remember people campaigning for characters like Ridley or Chrom for last game's DLC cycle? Because I do, and both characters had to wait until this entry to appear.

Not good enough? Here's a bigger question: why should we expect assists or Mii costumes to suddenly become playable in this DLC cycle? We never saw that before and what we've seen so far is not a good indicator of them happening. In fact, what happened last game with costumes like King K. Rool and Lloyd, added to Piranha Plant's absence as a spirit until being included, and Joker and all the content he came with lead to believe otherwise.

The fact that we didn't see the former two as playable in last game shows that they were intentionally meant to compensate for the character's absence. Hell, that was even a highlight when Sakurai introduced Rex's costume in November's Direct, and I quote:


As for Joker, here's the thing: how do you make exclusive spirit boards for Rex, Spring Man, Captain Toad or Bandana Dee when the regular board is already filled with tons of spirits that could easily be part of such?

It's been already said that Astral Chain is not assured to be success, let alone that assuring a spot in Smash. Case in point: Wonderful 101. Game's easily one of the best titles in the Wii U library, yet it sold terribly and got reduced to a bunch of trophies in 4.

The only ones you brought that could make sense are the Dragalia Lost character and the SwSh pokémon, and even then, I gotta say with the latter that it can still not happen due to the fact that we've had to instances of a Nintendo character coming as DLC and neither of them fit with the packages that will come in this pass (Corrin didn't have a stage even though there should be enough places in Fates to justify one, while Piranha Plant didn't even have songs), quite tells everyone will be coming from new franchises.

Not to comment on the actual likelihood of characters with spirits currently, but I don't think claiming there's actual complications with the DLC board holds up. The game as currently is not very picky with how you get the vast majority of them; Classic rewards, World Of Light, Spirit Board and just buying them from the shop. In fact, Persona spirits can actually be obtained from Classic and the shop, not just from their DLC board; the latter seems mostly to be there just so you won't have to struggle with RNG or a lengthy campaign to get something you paid for. If a series has handful of spirits in-game already, you could just add them to the DLC board anyway in addition to new ones, as a perk for a loyal customer, or in extreme cases where spirit representation is nearly complete, just don't add a DLC board at all for that particular character. We weren't promised any with our purchase after all. And if the fighter has a spirit already, the fighter spirit can just fall back to using only the Smash render to avoid complications.

Piranha Plant also can't really be compared to the fighter pass characters, because he was worked on early enough to have a gameplay trailer before the release of the game and has a guidance while the rest won't.

 

[The DanMan051]

It's been already said that Astral Chain is not assured to be success, let alone that assuring a spot in Smash. Case in point: Wonderful 101. Game's easily one of the best titles in the Wii U library, yet it sold terribly and got reduced to a bunch of trophies in 4.

The Wonderful 101 was non-standard for Platinum fare and was on the Wii U to boot, with mixed early impressions and non-existant advertising from Nintendo.
Astral Chain has had strongly positive reception, at least insofar as the first trailer is concerned-- on top of being on a far more successful platform than the Wii U.

I simply can't see it doing poorly, and promoting it with Smash would-- well, promote it and help it do better. It's a strategic matter of timing.

That said, Astral Chain itself is a 3rd party title that Nintendo is only publishing-- that, coupled with that I think it's the most likely character he fired out aside from Pokemon, pretty much destroys his entire argument.

 

[YoshiandToad]

As for Joker, here's the thing: how do you make exclusive spirit boards for Rex, Spring Man, Captain Toad or Bandana Dee when the regular board is already filled with tons of spirits that could easily be part of such?

Whilst I don't disagree with many of your points, at least regarding Captain Toad there's a total of two spirits currently for his game: Captain Toad (an evolved spirit, so not found on the regular spirit Board anyway) and Toadette (a dojo style special spirit, so not found on the regular spirit board anyway).

As for missing Captain Toad spirits;
Wingo, Draggadon, Draggadon Gold, Cookatiel, Hint Toad, Yellow Toad, Bank Toad, Mail Toad, Mummy Me, Piranha Sprout, Mud Trooper, Flaptor, Swimming Hole Goomba, Mole and if we include items; power gem, super pick axe, minecart, super crown, turnip cannon and invincibility mushroom.

Not to mention I'd expect Captain Toad and Toadette to get a fighter spirit each, and maybe even one of the Player 2 Toad that was introduced via DLC.

That's just off the top of my head so if in the unlikely chance Nintendo decide to push one of their characters as a DLC I'm sure they'd be able to find ideas for a Spirit Board.

 

[TheDuke54]

I don't think OP was arguing about third party fighters being implemented into Smash. Just ones like Joker who don't have any history in it. Ryu/StreetFighter and Final Fantasy both had history with Nintendo. Same with Snake with those old NES titles and Twin Snake, Megaman, Pacman, and even Sonic when Nintendo and Sega were toe to toe a very long time ago.

When Bayonetta jumped into the dlc I was confused because I never heard of her, but she at least had a few games come to the WiiU/Switch. I was disappointed yes, because I didn't know who she was or her history. Now she has games and she is not broken. Joker and Persona just need to bring a game over to Nintendo/ Switch. And not one of those spin-off games no one asked for. Like Square was trying to pass of the Crystal Chronicles remake to us.

If we are to get some other third parties I'd rather them be someone with more history with Nintendo while at the same time still being a marketing scheme.

 

[Perkilator]

Again, I don’t know why this is a thread. Smash Bros is a series where you don’t even need to be familiar with the characters to enjoy it (I only knew Mario, Sonic and Pokémon when I first played Brawl, and you don’t see me whining about it. I still had fun.).

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I don't think OP was arguing about third party fighters being implemented into Smash. Just ones like Joker who don't have any history in it. Ryu/StreetFighter and Final Fantasy both had history with Nintendo. Same with Snake with those old NES titles and Twin Snake, Megaman, Pacman, and even Sonic when Nintendo and Sega were toe to toe a very long time ago.

When Bayonetta jumped into the dlc I was confused because I never heard of her, but she at least had a few games come to the WiiU/Switch. I was disappointed yes, because I didn't know who she was or her history. Now she has games and she is not broken. Joker and Persona just need to bring a game over to Nintendo/ Switch. And not one of those spin-off games no one asked for. Like Square was trying to pass of the Crystal Chronicles remake to us.

If we are to get some other third parties I'd rather them be someone with more history with Nintendo while at the same time still being a marketing scheme.

As has been said many times before, Persona has been on 3DS multiple times. Shin Megami Tensei, which is Persona’s base series, has also had an extensive history on Nintendo consoles, to the point where it even had a crossover with Fire Emblem. Joker’s in the same vein as Cloud, in that it’s his series that’s been more associated with Nintendo that got him in.

 

[TheDuke54]

Oh dang, I did not know that. Thanks for the heads up. I didn't read all of the thread. Just here and there and I missed the points others possibly made about that series. I have heard of both Shin and Persona, but I didn't know they were the same. Or that one was a sequel and the other was a prequel.

Thanks for that clarification. It still would be pretty cool if Joker's Persona made it to the Switch. We might as well kiss Cloud's remake goodbye. I haven't heard anything about its status in a long time.

 

[TheRockingGoomba]

A lot of people say that this is toxic.
Keep going, your buffonery is actually really entertaining.

 

[blackghost]

I mean hell, the Third Party universes introduced have a lot of history in them when you think about it (this part is just me skimming TvTropes)

• Metal Gear: Invented and popularized Stealth based games. Also introduced some bits of Cover Shooter gameplay later made popular in games like Rainbow Six and Gears of War
• Sonic the Hedgehog: Sega's Mascot and the rival of Mario
• Mega Man: Classic Mega Man is one of Capcom's mascots (when not talking about street fighter)
• Pac-Man: First Maze Game (original Pac-man), First game with a female playable character (Ms. Pac-Man), and one of the earliest side scrollers (Pac-Land)
• Street Fighter: Created a lot of the things you would see in fighting games (like a gallery of fighters and stages) as well as popularizing fighting games
• Final Fantasy: Was the pioneer of a lot of tropes you see in RPGs
• Bayonetta: I say this is more to promote the fact that Bayonetta is on Nintendo consoles nowadays, but it was made by Hideki Kamiya AKA the guy behind Devil May Cry which inspired a lot of "Stylish Action" games in the Hack n Slash genre
• Castlevania: Though it came later, it is one of two series that make up the name of a sub-genre of Action Adventure platformers (Metroidvanias)
• Persona: Popular spinoff of Shin Megami Tensei which basically created the Monster Capturing subgenre of RPGs (aka, the thing made popular by Pokemon)

you cannot look at that roster objectively and call it bad. **** these peoples feelings. smash is not just about Nintendo just look at the single player in smash ultimate.
There are no Nintendo characters left that carry that amount of popular interest that various third parties do.
outside a the nintendo purists that want smash to be only for them, the inclusion if third parties has extended smash 4 and ultimate's audience in increidble ways. never saw justin wong and company playing brawl or melee causally on stream. smash is a business.

Persona, bayonetta, ff, and other franchises have appeared on nintnedo systems more thn some of these "blue blood" Nintendo characters. If the OP is going to dismiss games like hyrule warriors (which to my understanding the zelda community loved) it demonstrates how self-centered some people are. smash has to cater to so many people and fans if the dlc suddenly stopped being unpredictable and only Nintendo it would be seen y almost everyone as a step backward.