Joker is a perfect example of why 3rd party characters (like HIM) don't belong in Super Smash Bros.

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Okay but why exactly is Cloud the only exception to that "rule"? You are aware how hypocritical it is to say you "support generic characters" only to ostracize another for being "generic" right? That's my point your logic is non existant.
Please for ****s sake read what we were talking about.

Someone was comparing CLOUD to BOMBERMAN about iconicness and claiming THE FORMER; CLOUD, was less RECOGNISED than BOMBERMAN.

I personally didn't point Cloud out at ****ing all, I just tried to work out how anyone could recognise BOMBERMAN MORE THAN CLOUD.

Which is a fairly large demographic tbh, plenty of Switch owners do own at least one of the other two major systems, especially since they're relatively cheap compared to their launch prices since the Switch was released in the middle of their life cycles.
They're literally the same price at current.

But okay, how does people who own a Switch and a PS4 already help expand the userbase of the Switch? I'm not sure I follow the logic. They already have a Switch and PS4.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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They're literally the same price at current.
The PS4 and Xbox One both started at $399 and $499 at launch.

They've since dropped to $250, and if you're cool with buying the original model or a used console, some can go for as low as $200.



But okay, how does people who own a Switch and a PS4 already help expand the userbase of the Switch? I'm not sure I follow the logic. They already have a Switch and PS4.
I don't know, how do people who only own a Switch help expand the userbase of the Switch?
 
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The PS4 and Xbox One both started at $399 and $499 at launch.

They've since dropped to $250, and if you're cool with buying the original model or a used console, some can go for as low as $200.
Both of them are cheaper than the Switch at current, and since both were released years prior to the Switch, a lot of people have had plenty of time to save, myself included.
Alright, cool...hope you enjoy your PS4 and Switch! You're right, lots of people DO own both...but....

...How does it expand the Switch's userbase if it's appealing to the people who already own both? That's the main argument I see being used for justifying Joker at current.

Don't know about you but if I loved Persona 5 and didn't own a Switch, throwing £250 seems like a lot...and then what keeps that user buying Nintendo games after that, thus expanding the userbase properly?

As far as I can tell this is just the latest mode of thinking people are coming up with to justify a rather out there choice instead of 'because Sakurai wanted to'.

Nothing wrong with 'because Sakurai wanted to' because **** knows it's the real reason, but if that's the case why are we trying to assign it a deeper meaning or suggest it's a logical pick from either an advertising point of view to expand the playerbase. It's really not.

Oh, and lastly you can enjoy Joker all you want. He's fun. He doesn't make any sense at all as an inclusion, and I won't be buying him unless the other members of the Fighters Pass appeal to me because I'm like that, but I did play him. He's... fine. Enjoy him. He's just not everyone's cup of tea and some people are rather rightly questioning why he was included.

"Because Sakurai wanted to"

I don't know, how do people who only own a Switch help expand the userbase of the Switch?
I see you edited whilst I was typing.

They don't.
But also no one's justifying K.Rool or Ridley's inclusion by stating that they're doing that either for fans of villains. Enjoy Joker but don't pretend he's making a huge difference in the expansion of the Switch's userbase. Smash fans will buy any character released to them. That addictive feeling of having every single character is like a drug to some people after all and no one who doesn't already have a Switch is going to be throwing cash on another console to play as one character in a fighting game they had previously no interest in.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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He doesn't make any sense at all as an inclusion, and I won't be buying him unless the other members of the Fighters Pass appeal to me because I'm like that, but I did play him. He's... fine. Enjoy him. He's just not everyone's cup of tea and some people are rather rightly questioning why he was included.
He makes plenty of sense to me.


I see you edited whilst I was typing.
Sorry for not bending my arguments to your will.

But also no one's justifying K.Rool or Ridley's inclusion by stating that they're doing that either for fans of villains.
Plenty of people are doing that.
 
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He makes plenty of sense to me.



Sorry for not bending my arguments to your will.


Plenty of people are doing that.
Eh. I'll agree to disagree. From a marketing perspective, not particularly, but give me why you think he does?
He makes sense from a "Sakurai enjoyed this and thought it'd be neat" point of view. Is that what you mean?

I was pointing out so you didn't think I ignored your point rudely. Don't need to annoyed by it.

Please point me in the direction where people are claiming the Nintendo villains roster getting upgraded is expanding the Switch's userbase because I'd be interested in reading that peculiar logic too.
 

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I wish I could understand why fans get so flustered about 3rd party characters. I’m not sure whether it’s because a good amount of Nintendo fans strictly play Nintendo games, or if they just have this “Smash purity” thing, but it always seems to lead to irrational distaste toward 3rd parties.

It certainly may not be easy to take, but it shouldn’t be hard to understand. The remaining selection of first party characters will not entice people to buy them. All of the main characters of games, with mostly original designs and that can’t easily be confused with another character are in the game. This includes most of the major protagonists, sidekicks, villains, and some side characters. If you look at most of the Nintendo series with playable characters, this holds true.

Selling 3rd string Nintendo characters, especially those that do not effectively advertise a new product, simply doesn’t make sense compared to adding a Gen 8 Pokémon, Three Houses character, or the twins from Astral Chain. Those three options make the most sense for first party DLC fighters for Ultimate. No one else really makes that much sense.

Now, picture this. A brand new 3rd party character gets added. It’s from a series that isn’t in Smash, so we get a stage, music pieces, and spirits that weren’t there before. It’s completely unique from everything else currently, and gives a fresh spin. This is something that many new Nintendo characters wouldn’t necessarily do.

I personally can’t relate, because i’ve tried to play every series in Smash. The only ones I haven’t are Wii Fit, R.O.B, and Duck Hunt. Every time a 3rd party gets added, I attempt to play one of their games. Granted, I am fortunate enough to own all consoles of this generation, so it’s a bit easier for me to accomplish that.

However, we play this video game don’t we? A character being added isn’t just a “representation”. They bring a moveset, and things that help them stand out. 3rd party fighters are especially rich in unique gameplay potential, because they aren’t typical to Nintendo titles.

Plus, I don’t think i’m alone in this, the fact that the crossover element keeps growing with each fighter added is just absolutely incredible. I only played Metal Gear because of Smash, and it’s one of my favorites. I sped up my backlog to play Persona 5 and Final Fantasy VII. Those are also among my favorites.

You just have to keep an open mind, and try some new things. Otherwise you’re just going to be miserable.
 
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