It's Hopeless

[Deadweight]

[Where to begin...I guess I'll just go line by line and try to tell you where you're off.

Who are the notable GaW, Fox, and ZSS mains in Florida? I know Florida has 2 very good DDDs (Seibrik and CO18), but reading on apparently you lose to Seibrik so I'm not sure who you're talking about there either.

Fox: Verg (Beaten), Fenrir (Haven't played)
GaW: XYZ (Beaten), GDX (Close)
ZSS: Nick riddle(Haven't played), MSAS (Beaten)
DDD: CO18, Seibrik (is now is a MK main), Hungrybox, (Only played Seibrik he went MK)

MK is probably 40:60. GaW is 45:55, Fox is 50:50, DDD is 50:50, and ZSS is probably closer to 30:70. None of those are equal to MK .

The general consensus is that MK vs RoB is 60-40,
Fox is 55-45
GnW is 65-35
DDD is 55-45
ZSS is 70-30
Lol maybe you should "Study your matchups"

The ceiling that is humanly impossible to reach? The ceiling that every character could theoretically reach?

Each ceiling is different for each character. Some ceilings are higher than others, it is agreed upon that RoB has a very low ceiling when compared to characters like MK, or Snake who seem to still have ways to go before they plateau off. Because of our low ceiling, our character's abilities reach a plateau sooner than other characters.

Or, the ceiling that is defined only by your ability? The latter one is the only one you have to worry about. HugS was being a downer again with those first two, because like Chibo, he seems to blame Meta Knight for his problems instead of blaming himself for them. Which is fine, I guess. The matchup is not impossible. I promise.

I'm going to ask you the same question you asked me. What notable MK mains do you have in NC that play at your tournaments? Florida has atleast 5 MKs that top 8 tournaments.

Are you powerranked in Florida? Once your powerranked, it'll show that you're at least good enough that you can understand the matchup. Until then, I doubt it. It really seems like you're getting demoralized because you're getting trounced by people better and more experienced than you.

I am in, arguably the 2nd hardest state in the US for brawl. I have made it out of pools in both 100+ tournaments I've been too, Just to be paired against 2 mks in a row.

You're not doing everything the other top ROBs are doing, or else you'd be winning. Holy beat Afro, who IIRC is the best overall player in Florida (and if he's not, he's high up there). If you're not beating Afro, you're obviously not at Holy's level yet,. and you're not doing everything that you can be doing to win. Odds are, if you're saying things like "I do everything all the other top RoBs are doing", you don't really understand the game enough to complain. Study the matchups, practice and become more experienced before you say things like that.

Afro is 2nd in PR and is a SNAKE main, I have played, and brought him down to his last stock high percents the only time i played him. Lol @ "study the match ups" We are talking about 1 matchup in this thread, and the only one that i keep losing in. THE MK ONE. Your demeaning attitude is kinda tweaking my nerves, cause you act as if i'm some scrub and you are 1000000x better than I am .
I have beaten members on the PR in ATL and FL. and have top 16ed 2 large tournaments so you need to chill. I know I'm not at Holy's level yet, that is why i said "I am almost at the point where my rob cannot get any better" I still have some work to do, but its not enough that I shouldnt beable to hold my own against random MK mains. I understand the game well enough to know an un-winnable match up.

 

[stingers]

I'll only respond to one thing, because it's the only thing that needs responding. aka I'm lazy

I understand the game well enough to know an un-winnable match up.

No. No no no no no.

Nobody does. If you think you do, you're wrong. New things are discovered every day.

Even DK vs. DDD is theoretically winnable for the DK You just need to get better. The plateaus that you're talking about just aren't realistic at this point in the game.

 

[HugS™]

Stingers, you remind me a lot of this guy named GUM that used to patrol the Samus boards for Brawl.

I picked up Samus, was arguably one of the best in the nation with her, and I explained to them all that Samus simply didn't have the tools to deal with the rest of the cast. He went on to describe her positive attributes: No lag on her aerials, incredible aerial mobility, great camping game, great projectile shield pressure, above average recovery, and could live pretty long. He went on to say how her downfall was simply due to weak minded players, such as myself, who gave up far too easily.

I explained that not only was I probably a better Samus, but that I had seen enough of Smash to tell when there was a dead end. Not only that, but I had dealt with using a difficult character in the past, and managed to take her far beyond what anyone thought possible. So the "weak minded" argument didn't really fit with me.

I explained that Samus would not win tournaments, and that she wouldn't even place amongst the best of players, really. But he insisted I was wrong for the reasons mentioned prior. Well here we are, about 1 year later, and I don't see Samus doing much.

I know you'll say "ROB isn't Samus", but it's just an example to show that I'm not just talking out of my ***. You need to consider this point of view we're giving you. I'll consider myself wrong when a ROB proves to surpass the best of other characters. So far this isn't really happening. And this is coming from a ROB that does know how to fight nearly every single match up, a ROB that does place @ regional tournaments, is ranked in his region (inarguably one of the best regions in the US), and beats every MK but DSF/Tyrant/TKD/M2k here on the west coast.

I'm not sitting here just to lie to you, buddy. Nor am I trying to be a downer. I'm just being honest.

 

[HolyNightmare]

Calm down, Holy. He added the "imo" at the end there. That means "in my opinion". Opinions are not lies, they're just opinions. You can ask him what his opinion is based off, but everyone is entitlted to what they think.

Although saying you took 13th place is about as applicable as HugS taking 17th at SiN. It's a matter of who you play, not what you place. If you face the person who takes 1st early in the bracket that means you're about on par with 1st place.

Just letting you know there are plenty of good players, if someone ever says any one of us isn't any good because we didn't take 1st place that's when you know you're an awesome player. If you were a bad player people wouldn't even be talking about you ;^)

<3 Canada. Rivalry =/= hate

Tommy I think you need to learn to read, I have no idea where hugs come in since I didnt even mention him. You obviously need to go back to my post and learn to read bolded parts. Come to me when you have done so.

 

[Darth Waffles]

Wow, intense stuff since I last checked here. I still like both sides but there are some things that need clearing up before I'm convinced either way.

The general consensus is that MK vs RoB is 60-40,
Fox is 55-45
GnW is 65-35
DDD is 55-45
ZSS is 70-30
Lol maybe you should "Study your matchups"

Wait, what? I see two problems with this. 1) MK vs ROB is 60-40 MK? Since when? What kind of "unwinnable matchup" is only 60-40 in the opponent's favor? What happened to 100-0? I think ROB vs MK is worse than 40-60 but not 0-100. 2) If MK vs ROB is an unwinnable matchup at 60-40 MK, do you automatically lose if you begin a fight against 65-35 G&W?

a ROB that...beats every MK but DSF/Tyrant/TKD/M2k here on the west coast.

Everything else you said I agreed with but this part seemed a little off to me so I'll try to put my finger on whatever it is that's bothering me.

You say you beat every MK, at least in your region, except for the ones mentioned (the best, obviously). This leads me to believe that you defeated all of the other MKs with ROB since you say "beats" instead of "used to beat before I realized this matchup was unwinnable and switched." I guess my question is "Why"? Why do you even go ROB against the other players' MKs if you feel it's unwinnable? It seems to me that despite everything else, there's still a little bit of you that plays the person, not the character. If you're not scared of the person, you're still willing to play ROB against MK. At least, that's how it came off to me.

For example, let's say you played RandomScrubX's MK awhile back and beat it with ROB. Now you play RandomScrubX's MK again. You know that you've beaten him in the past and that he wasn't nearly as hard as playing M2K. Am I wrong to say that you would go ROB for at least the first game? But why risk it, even for RandomScrubX (the first OR second time you play him), given that he might have had or now has the knowledge to win this "hopeless" matchup? Sure, he might not move his fingers as fast as Tyrant would, but that doesn't change the matchup before you play it at all. His MK's shuttle loop still has the same priority as Tyrant's MK's shuttle loop, and his attacks come out just as fast.

Sorry if this was incredibly over-analytical, but it seems to me that you still have a part of you that is up to the challenge of a disadvantaged, but not hopeless, matchup. From how you say "I beat everyone else's MK except for _____," it just seems confusing that you, despite what you say, choose to play their MKs with ROB in the first place.

 

[CT Chia]

this convo sure did explode @_@

i also see a lot of complaints on GaW lol. I know the boards here determined him to be the toughest matchup months and months ago, but I kept working at it and its not so bad (and dont say i havnt worked in the mk matchup lol, everyone should have played that matchup to death). besides brinstar and rainbow cruise sorta, theres rly no need to worry about GaW. Just dont get hit by his early killing smashes. ROB can kill GaW earlier than vice versa, ROB can out camp him, ROB can edgeguard him easily, the list goes on. It's so easy to smash DI out of bair it's BAIRly a problem anymore.

i do agree with holy when he says DDD is one of the toughest matchups. thats another where if the DDD knows the matchup (aka powershielding) then ROBs options continue to dwindle down.

i like how stingers gets all defensive when I call out for the region he lives in but then turns around and calls out deadweight on living in florida
me living in NJ shouldnt make me whine about it, i have more mk experience than the avg player. iv also beaten plenty of great MK players before including dmbrandon

 

[stingers]

Stingers, you remind me a lot of this guy named GUM that used to patrol the Samus boards for Brawl.

I totally missed the "for Brawl" the first time and was confused the rest of your post

Anyway HugS, I get that you really honestly believe that ROB has a definite plateau and most of your points regarding that were valid (though I hope I at least changed your mind on some of them...maybe not @.@), but I think ROB has the tools to overcome what you said. He has such a versatile projectile game that can be used for a lot more then just camping (ROB has the largest glide toss out of any character with a spawnable projectile, and the laser has the biggest range (with comparable speed) out of any projectile in the game).

I'm doing pretty well too...ranked 2nd in NC, which is probably higher then what you're ranked. And I definitely don't mean to insult you with that because my region is HELLA weaker than yours (sadly D: ). But...that still doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I've proven I can hang with the best of them (My ROB went 2-2 vs ChuDats Kirby...which is pretty impressive, imo at least) and I hope I've done a well enough job on the ROB boards *crosses fingers* that I have a reputation here as an intelligent poster and an asset to the community.

My point being that I hope we can just agree to disagree from now on @.@.

Edit: but then turns around and calls out deadweight on living in florida

I did? What? Florida is way stronger then NC anyway, that doesn't even make sense x.x

 

[Darth Waffles]

It's so easy to smash DI out of bair it's BAIRly a problem anymore.

I C what U Did Thar

<3

 

[Teh Future]

i have more mk experience than the avg player. iv also beaten plenty of great MK players before including dmbrandon

obviously any MK that has lost to any ROB player ever is completely horrible at this game, so you havent beaten any good MKs. Did you guys see where Holy said he went even with Ksissle? Wow Ksissle must be the worst mk ever if he lost a couple games to a ROB player.

All I see are people complaining that they cant beat the top MKs in their region. Thats just because you aren't as good as the top MKs in the region LOL. You guys are just looking for an excuse as to why you lost when the answer is right in front of you the whole time.

 

[HugS™]

Stingers, I know what you're saying, and I know I'm not at the pinnacle of ROB in brawl, I could be better, everyone could.

I'm just saying I have the foresight to know what ROB is really capable of. And while even I have room to improve, I still don't see there being too much hope in changing what I know.

@ DarthWaffles - The reason I go ROB vs every MK is because of what I said earlier in my argument. If the MK knows the match up, ROB shouldn't win.

That also implies that if the MK doesn't know the match up, ROB has a chance. I for one know the MK match up extremely well. So well, that even if I picked up a much better character, I'd be prepared to go ROB on any MK that wasn't Tyrant/DSF/M2k/TKD/Havok, because it's a cakewalk for me if they don't know the match up. I just stand my ground and they can't approach me. I bait any move I want, and punish accordingly. "Oh look I'm standing still, hope they don't tornado" *Fsmash*. "Oh no, I'm approaching as they shield, hope they don't Shuttle Loop out of shield" *Usmash*. When I recover, I can actually uair/fair them without getting Daired out of my up B!

So it becomes a ridiculously easy match up if they don't know what they are doing against me. Which is what I feel is causing some ROBs to think the match up is winnable. It's easy to be influenced by poor players and their inability to beat you. You feel your wins are indicative of what goes on in the match up.

FYI, I don't play above average MK's in friendlies ever. This match up REQUIRES a large lack of knowledge on behalf of your opponent. You have to keep your camping secrets safe.

 

[gantrain05]

honestly, ROB really doesn't have too many options against a very good passive-aggressive MK, you can camp and camp and camp, all day long, but that kind of MK will very very rarely be hit by any kill moves, you will most likely be killing with Dsmash and Fairs, you may have tools to deal with some situations, but i don't believe you can "effectively" deal with the situations.

you are basically in the same boat as peach, you CAN do very well against him, but when it comes down to it, your going to have a hell of a lot harder time killing MK than he will killing you.

also shuttle loop OoS isn't that great, its one of the few moves you can actually punish MK for, if they are smart they wont do that often.

 

[salaboB]

Nobody does. If you think you do, you're wrong. New things are discovered every day.

Even DK vs. DDD is theoretically winnable for the DK You just need to get better. The plateaus that you're talking about just aren't realistic at this point in the game.

This honestly sounds like a leadup to a "tires don exits" argument to me.

At this point in the game there can be unwinnable matchups. If a new AT is discovered, some of them may go away -- but that doesn't mean they don't exist with what is currently understood. If it were so easy (Just get better) to suddenly win against people who shut down every option you knew about, the tier list would be heavily fluctuating still.

Wait, what? I see two problems with this. 1) MK vs ROB is 60-40 MK? Since when? What kind of "unwinnable matchup" is only 60-40 in the opponent's favor? What happened to 100-0? I think ROB vs MK is worse than 40-60 but not 0-100. 2) If MK vs ROB is an unwinnable matchup at 60-40 MK, do you automatically lose if you begin a fight against 65-35 G&W?

I think he said commonly accepted -- and it sounds like the numbers need changing, since they should be reflecting MKs that know the matchup and that's been declared almost impossible to win.

 

[Deadweight]

This honestly sounds like a leadup to a "tires don exits" argument to me.

At this point in the game there can be unwinnable matchups. If a new AT is discovered, some of them may go away -- but that doesn't mean they don't exist with what is currently understood. If it were so easy (Just get better) to suddenly win against people who shut down every option you knew about, the tier list would be heavily fluctuating still.

I think he said commonly accepted -- and it sounds like the numbers need changing, since they should be reflecting MKs that know the matchup and that's been declared almost impossible to win.

^ took the words out of my mouth

 

[HugS™]

Actually, MK's upB out of shield can't be punished by ROB. There's a way to cancel it faster, and further away from ROB's reach if he actually shielding the up B to begin with.

LoL, I said goodbye to my most reliable kill scenario a while ago.

 

[Deadweight]

Actually, MK's upB out of shield can't be punished by ROB. There's a way to cancel it faster, and further away from ROB's reach if he actually shielding the up B to begin with.

LoL, I said goodbye to my most reliable kill scenario a while ago.

My friend who mains mk figured that out a while ago.
If he gets anything close to losing he'll start spamming tornado and up b.
If i try to punish i eat a dsmash. =/

 

[Teh Future]

LOL this thread is so stupid. Chibo just change the title to "lets all cry about MK"

 

[Syde7]

Actually, MK's upB out of shield can't be punished by ROB. There's a way to cancel it faster, and further away from ROB's reach if he actually shielding the up B to begin with.

LoL, I said goodbye to my most reliable kill scenario a while ago.

This.

He can cancel it and land out of range of nigh on anything ROB has- including D-smash, Tilts, F-smash, and dashing grab. If you decide to get cute and attempt to punish it with a dashing grab, prepare to get that stuffed by another SL, or D-smashed, or heck- even tilted. Want to try a D-smash? *If it hits* Low percents= SDI-> Tornado, Shield->D-smash, Shield->Whatever. Tilts? Too slow. F-smash. Too slow. By the time you get into range MK has faster options to counter your punishment attempt.

Edit:

LOL this thread is so stupid. Chibo just change the title to "lets all cry about MK"

That's actually not a bad idea. We can *vent* here, as opposed to sticking little "bawww" quips in other threads. LoL

 

[Deadweight]

Futurewrestler = good troll :{D

 

[salaboB]

Futurewrestler = good troll :{D

Good trolls make people upset.

 

[Teh Future]

Futurewrestler = good troll :{D

lol as long as all you is guys do is complain that everything MK does is unpunishable Im going to keep "trolling" MK's upB is very punishable. Glide attack is something that is altogether different and is unpunishable by nearly the entire cast if used right. But MK shouldnt be in the position where they can glide attack at the perfect distance for their attack to be "unpunishable" anyways.

 

[salaboB]

lol as long as all you is guys do is complain that everything MK does is unpunishable Im going to keep "trolling" MK's upB is very punishable. Glide attack is something that is altogether different and is unpunishable by nearly the entire cast if used right. But MK shouldnt be in the position where they can glide attack at the perfect distance for their attack to be "unpunishable" anyways.

A smart MK won't use the punishable attacks when you can punish them.

I don't believe anyone said you couldn't punish an MK that was stupid (Or doesn't know the matchup).

 

[gantrain05]

lol as long as all you is guys do is complain that everything MK does is unpunishable Im going to keep "trolling" MK's upB is very punishable. Glide attack is something that is altogether different and is unpunishable by nearly the entire cast if used right. But MK shouldnt be in the position where they can glide attack at the perfect distance for their attack to be "unpunishable" anyways.

peach can punish Up+B AND glide attack =) try powershield the initial attack of loop and then immediatly Fsmash, it might just be disjointed enough to knock MK out of the sky. if not it may clank, in which you can easily land a Dsmash immediatly after.

 

[TEECO]

Ban MK, hes making this game become garbage.

 

[Deadweight]

peach can punish Up+B AND glide attack =) try powershield the initial attack of loop and then immediatly Fsmash, it might just be disjointed enough to knock MK out of the sky. if not it may clank, in which you can easily land a Dsmash immediatly after.

If they are trying to hit you with the glide attack they are doing it wrong =/
They are supposed to cancel it into either:
A) Another up B
B) A dsmash
C) A Fsmash

Just far enough away, to bait you into trying to punish lag that doesnt exist.

The only thing RoB can do is shoot a lazer at the mk durring this process, but unfortunately for us, lasers alone cannot kill a mk =/

 

[Crizthakidd]

if all u robs did the ninjalink

ud win a lot more vs mk lol

 

[mountain_tiger]

peach can punish Up+B AND glide attack =) try powershield the initial attack of loop and then immediatly Fsmash, it might just be disjointed enough to knock MK out of the sky. if not it may clank, in which you can easily land a Dsmash immediatly after.

Come to think of it: would it be possible to get a USmash sweetspot straight after powershielding? That would be so brilliant if it worked.

Back on the topic of ROB, I can't help but wonder something. If the ZSS player doesn't use the DSmash footstool infinite, what's the matchup like between her and ROB?

 

[TEECO]

Personally, I don't like it very much but its not bad. I cant imagine it not being 50/50 more or less.

 

[HugS™]

if all u robs did the ninjalink

ud win a lot more vs mk lol

I don't even think I said I lose to MK much, i said I lose to players who are great with MK and know the match up as well as I do.

Idk, I'd like to see Ninjalink come do his thing vs tyrant/dsf/TKD, then i'd eat my own words. And even then, I'd still argue that his unique style is kind of a temporary fix, they'd just have to figure out his style as well.

And if he still keeps winning, if he even wins twice in a row, why, i'd have to create a shrine in his honor.

Oh, and I wasn't kidding when I said a properly spaced/canceled MK up B is not punishable.
Unless you got a Gyro in hand. That's about it.
And lasering his up B out of shield? Pfff, you'd have to predict that he would cancel it, otherwise he'd just glide in and glide attack your slow *** move. See how it's all about prediction in this match up, not really about reaction? Well it's just ROB in general.

 

[gantrain05]

Come to think of it: would it be possible to get a USmash sweetspot straight after powershielding? That would be so brilliant if it worked.

Back on the topic of ROB, I can't help but wonder something. If the ZSS player doesn't use the DSmash footstool infinite, what's the matchup like between her and ROB?

its very possible, and quite easy once you get it down, it works on grounded or SH shuttle loops, just powershield the initial attack and boost smash will go right under him as he's coming down from the loop and u will sweetspot it. im pretty sure rob should be able to Fsmash or something tho.

 

[Deadweight]

Zss w/o infinite is still a stupid fight. Shes an anti-camper
its like 60-40 w/o infinite imo

 

[Nefarious B]

She might be the anti ROB but she's not the anti camper lol. Falco is our worst MU by far.

 

[Deadweight]

She might be the anti ROB but she's not the anti camper lol. Falco is our worst MU by far.

You still rock pit/rob. You allways seem to be ontop of us. Giving us no room to breathe. =/ Your too fast to hit with our laggy moves so we end up getting punished. We never have space to camp.

Falco's a muchhhh better camper than us, + he has phantasm to get him a free retreat across the stage, which isn't a luxury we get T_T


BACK TO TOPIC.
Played against a MK today !

I didnt win
Discuss

 

[Overswarm]

I don't even think I said I lose to MK much, i said I lose to players who are great with MK and know the match up as well as I do.

Idk, I'd like to see Ninjalink come do his thing vs tyrant/dsf/TKD, then i'd eat my own words. And even then, I'd still argue that his unique style is kind of a temporary fix, they'd just have to figure out his style as well.

And if he still keeps winning, if he even wins twice in a row, why, i'd have to create a shrine in his honor.

Oh, and I wasn't kidding when I said a properly spaced/canceled MK up B is not punishable.
Unless you got a Gyro in hand. That's about it.
And lasering his up B out of shield? Pfff, you'd have to predict that he would cancel it, otherwise he'd just glide in and glide attack your slow *** move. See how it's all about prediction in this match up, not really about reaction? Well it's just ROB in general.

You can punish the up+b with a fully charged gyro as well as having gyro in hand, but it still requires excellent timing and prediction.

 

[Teh Future]

Obviously you guys should just counterpick Sonic against MK

 

[Sudai]

Obviously you guys should just counterpick Sonic against MK Inui

Fixed .

 

[Informant]

Hi fellow Robots, my scanning unit observed a video of HugS vs M2K, and I calculated that a lot of my Robot brethren tend to panic and rush back to the stage, setting themselves up for SL sweetspot traps, or other aerial abuse by MK....I usually stall with Dair if MK is a outside SL range, then charge up a gyro so when I fall down to about his altitude, I don't have to worry about his Dair, Uair, or SL's (as much). If he tries to keep batting you away, you can cut through any of his attacks with the hope-fully charged Gyroscope to give yourself some nut room.

 

[Master Knight DH]

It's not hopeless.

Today, I checked to see if ROBs really could fight through Pit's freaking arrows. Turns out that not only can you really do so (although it's still annoying), but ROB has an *insane* advantage at close range. Throw in a few good jumps and Pit is in serious trouble. Why? Let me elaborate: against Pit, ROB's attacks have an edge in priority, range, power, you name it. And ROB himself takes a while to kill on top of that. Get through the arrows and Pit is basically dead. The neutral air is particularly handy in making Pit helpless against your assault, not to say ROB hasn't other moves to give payback for the arrows, they're just more like deploying infantry or Humvees or artillery, really. (Ay yai yai, talk about a Skill Gate Character. Yes, I know, that is still a YKTTW, but I set it up to stop the bloody debate about Meta Knight on Game Breaker.)

And Meta Knight? He relies on being the Death Of A Thousand Cuts to make others' lives miserable. But he has no projectiles, so if he hits you, that's because he got close to you. He can't force you to approach, and meanwhile, if he's far away, you can be a firin' your l4z0r to bait him, since if he doesn't kill you, which he has to approach for, he will inevitably die unless he can somehow dodge all day. Plus you yourself already won't die at any quick pace against most characters, while Meta Knight relies on attack strings to cause that to virtually anybody. Do the math.

 

[Deadweight]

It's not hopeless.
And Meta Knight? He relies on being the Death Of A Thousand Cuts to make others' lives miserable. But he has no projectiles, so if he hits you, that's because he got close to you. He can't force you to approach, and meanwhile, if he's far away, you can be a firin' your l4z0r to bait him, since if he doesn't kill you, which he has to approach for, he will inevitably die unless he can somehow dodge all day. Plus you yourself already won't die at any quick pace against most characters, while Meta Knight relies on attack strings to cause that to virtually anybody. Do the math.

its not hard to power shield in this game...if we had lag-less projectiles similar to falco then id agree with you however, All he has to do is wait outside of F-tilt range for you to laser/gyro and then punish.

 

[HugS™]

It's not hopeless.

Today, I checked to see if ROBs really could fight through Pit's freaking arrows. Turns out that not only can you really do so (although it's still annoying), but ROB has an *insane* advantage at close range. Throw in a few good jumps and Pit is in serious trouble. Why? Let me elaborate: against Pit, ROB's attacks have an edge in priority, range, power, you name it. And ROB himself takes a while to kill on top of that. Get through the arrows and Pit is basically dead. The neutral air is particularly handy in making Pit helpless against your assault, not to say ROB hasn't other moves to give payback for the arrows, they're just more like deploying infantry or Humvees or artillery, really. (Ay yai yai, talk about a Skill Gate Character. Yes, I know, that is still a YKTTW, but I set it up to stop the bloody debate about Meta Knight on Game Breaker.)

And Meta Knight? He relies on being the Death Of A Thousand Cuts to make others' lives miserable. But he has no projectiles, so if he hits you, that's because he got close to you. He can't force you to approach, and meanwhile, if he's far away, you can be a firin' your l4z0r to bait him, since if he doesn't kill you, which he has to approach for, he will inevitably die unless he can somehow dodge all day. Plus you yourself already won't die at any quick pace against most characters, while Meta Knight relies on attack strings to cause that to virtually anybody. Do the math.

LoL you didn't really read any of this thread did you?

 

[Master Knight DH]

its not hard to power shield in this game...if we had lag-less projectiles similar to falco then id agree with you however, All he has to do is wait outside of F-tilt range for you to laser/gyro and then punish.

Who says you have to laser/gyro close up at all? You can just use them as a psychological weapon by moving back and then when Meta Knight moves, that's when you should have him stringed like a puppet, hopefully into a shield-grab.