It's Hopeless

[stingers]

Chibo lives in a place where there are lots of good MKs, so he assumes the MK matchup is unwinnable instead of practicing it and adapting. I see.

It's natural the better players will gravitate towards the better characters, odds are you're losing because they're better than you. Learn ROB instead of crying about Meta Knight like a bunch of scrubs. Insulting my region won't accomplish anything, Chibo.

 

[Darth Waffles]

Don't worry, MK is about to be banned. That's why OS switched, right? To show how broken he was and just play MK for a few tourneys to show how MK would lead to victory when his ROB couldn't win this "unwinnable" matchup?

...right. It's an annoying, uphill matchup, sure. It's also ROB's worst matchup, but I still don't think it's completely unwinnable. MK isn't going anywhere, nothing's completely one-sided. Even a 95:5 matchup can go either way

 

[Landry]

DRAMAZ! Nah, but for real, even if you are evenly skilled with an MK they'll win. That's just how it works. MK is too good.

 

[stingers]

even if you are evenly skilled with an MK they'll win.

Jesus ****ing christ. No ****. MK has the advantage. What a stupid post.

 

[Deadweight]

Don't worry, MK is about to be banned.

------------------------------------------------
Unless Genisis is :
1st M2k
2nd Dojo
3rd Infinity
5th Judge
5th Affinity

Thats not going to happen

-------------------------------
Stingers I'd go as far as to say
a player who has been playing Metaknight for 3 weeks can beat a RoB player whos been playing for 3 months.
=/

 

[Landry]

Well Stingers, your saying we should practice the matchup and be more skilled than the Meta Knight player. Let me ask you this, why wouldn't we put that same skill towards being good with MK. Then, if you're even skill with your opponent you will always be at least even, but mostly have an advantage. No need to get pissed of dude, it's just a discussion. I hate to play devils advocate but someones gotta do it.

EDIT: MK won't be banned. Ally and Lain have kinda blown that for us.

 

[stingers]

I am getting pissed off; this thread pisses me off. All I see is crying about how your character has a disadvantage against Meta Knight. Well nooooooooooo ****, I'm sure we all knew that before. It's certainly not an unwinnable matchup. The ratio is not 100:0. If you're better than the Meta Knight, you'll win. If you learn the matchup and what you can do in every situation, you'll win. Play smart and get better instead of whining about it.

If you want to drop ROB for Meta Knight, go for it. I personally use Meta Knight for some matchups I don't feel like using ROB for. There's nothing wrong with that. Meta Knight is a good character. Which we all know, which is why this thread was made. But you can't blow it out of proportion and declare that your character has absolutely no chance against Meta Knight, has a definite ceiling and cannot be used at a high level. Because that's all bull****.

 

[Wolydarg]

Ninjalink went ROB against Shadow's MK and someone else's MK at Viridian City the past weekend. One of the best ROBs (who doesn't main ROB) doesn't think this matchup sucks enough that he wouldn't use diddy or any of his other dozen mains.

I personally don't think this matchup's "hopeless", either, Stingers, so you're not alone in that =P

 

[Ragnar0k]

Don't talk **** about NC. Come to herb 2. We'll show you the deal.

edit: I agree with stingers.

 

[Landry]

I understand your point, but you have to ask yourself why you are playing Smash competitively. Are you doing it to have fun, or are you doing it to win? If you're doing it for fun and enjoy going ROB then by all means, keep playing ROB. If you're doing it to win we all know MK is the better choice. We all knew this going in, and by playing ROB we were choosing to put ourselves at a disadvantage in order to have more fun playing the game. But we still wanted to win, still thought we could win. But ROB vs MK is getting farther. ROBs gimmicks aren't as effective anymore. If I'm not mistaken Holy is the only ROB who beats big name MK players anymore, and even then I think the biggest name Holy's beaten is Swordguard (I might be wrong). Being a realist this isn't really that surprising, people want to win. ROB is not giving people the best chance to do that. OS did it already, and people are starting to follow. I'm not saying it's right, but it's happening.

 

[stingers]

Hey great, if Holy is beating big name MKs, what does that prove?

 

[Landry]

That he's more skilled. I'm not arguing that. Swordguard isn't exactly a big name outside of Canada though.

 

[stingers]

Ally wasn't a big name until he came to the US...

 

[Crizthakidd]

u guys need to do the ninjalink

otherwise, rob is a fail char in tourny. i switched my second one lol

 

[Deadweight]

Hey great, if Holy is beating big name MKs, what does that prove?

If holy can beat any of the 6 Mks i listed on the previous post consistently in tournaments (1. he should be winning tournaments) and 2. I will retract my statement and get his advice on the matchup

However I dont see this happening =/

 

[Landry]

Although I would not necessarily agree that point is irrelevant to our discussion. Look, MK vs ROB isn't "unwinable." Like Chibo said, an MK who doesn't know ROBs tricks can lose to ROB. That is also true if the ROB posses significantly more skill than the MK player. But MK beats ROB, that matchup is a huge disadvantage and everyone knows it. So why play it?

EDIT: Holy may be able to beat Affinity, but not Judge. But the thing is, you don't even have to be good with MK to be good with MK. Lain beat Judge's MK with MK. Judge. The 3rd of 4th best MK in the world. And Lain had never used MK in tourney before that.

 

[stingers]

Go ahead and pick up a metaknight counter for that matchup then...i don't expect you to get anywhere, but go for it. Just stop whining about ROB's shortcomings, it just makes you look like a fool.

 

[lord karn]

At the last midwest-west circuit event Zenton nearly beat Anther's Pikachu on battlefield.

Basically: no

lol at saying dair camping > tornado works on ROB. I watched a Link player beat that yesterday in tournament. camping in the air as MK does not work.

Have you watched M2K play? He air camps in most of his matches and he wins. Maybe I'm wrong about air camping vs ROB, but air camping in general is a very viable strat with MK.


Obviously you will beat an MK with ROB if you know the matchup, he doesn't, and you're better than him. But if you're fighting a meta who knows the matchup, and who is near your skill level, perhaps not even that good, you will lose. If you only enter tournaments for fun, then go ahead and play ROB in the matchup and never win any big tournaments. Sure you can all just be much better than the metas, but when it comes down to it you're probably not going to be 'much better' than any of the top names. You might get good enough to be on their level but if you want to win any tournaments with any good MKs you need to learn another character. ROB is a great character to know how to play in a lot of matchups, he just can't win alone. A lot of characters can't.

 

[Landry]

Go ahead and pick up a metaknight counter for that matchup then...i don't expect you to get anywhere, but go for it. Just stop whining about ROB's shortcomings, it just makes you look like a fool.

I don't understand where you're coming from. It's pretty clear your upset, but I can't figure out why. You can't possibly be defending ROB as a better MK counter than MK himself. Could you explain your position so that I can understand your opinion?

I'm not trying to sound condescending or anything, but I legitimately can't figure out why your upset...

EDIT: Karn brings up valid points

 

[stingers]

you can't blow it out of proportion and declare that your character has absolutely no chance against Meta Knight, has a definite ceiling and cannot be used at a high level.

That.

10thats

 

[Syde7]

It's probably because you live in NC.

Hey now, Chibo! *points at my Location*

*makes mean face*

*then makes a snuggly I wuff you face*

*and then a mean face*

 

[Mr.E]

Oh, I do think the MK match-up is bad enough that picking up a secondary (or new main if you think MK is really that common) for the match-up is probably a better plan than trying to fight the uphill battle. (Personally, I've subscribed to the philosophy that you should pick a lesser-used character, i.e. someone besides Snake or playing the MK ditto, such that the opponent is less likely to have significant experience with the match-up.) However, it's not "hopeless" to the point that it's nearly impossible to win and one could probably get by with enough practice, much like Kirby to Falco, Snake to G&W, Ice Climbers on virtually any CP stage... Oh hell, let's face it, only MK is good enough to entirely avoid any CP shenanigans. -_- Even Snake is not devoid of slightly disadvantaged match-ups, including our dear ROB, and is terrible on both Rainbow Cruise and Jungle Japes.

Sorry, looks like I forgot what I was arguing about and started rambling. I think my point was that MK is the only rational choice if winning is all that matters... and you actually think the months of catching up you have to do in order to raise your MK skill level beyond your current ROB (or other character) skill level, and start to compete with people who picked MK up earlier, is worth the time. At the least, everyone except MK and maybe Snake should be supported by secondary characters with a more favorable match-up against the main's disadvantages. ROB certainly deserves his place in the upper tier of characters, whining about how bad he is doesn't do anything.

 

[Landry]

Stingers, have I blown this out of proportion? If so I apologize, because ROB still is a good character and can be used at a high level of play. But the thing is, as a realist, you will go farther as MK than you will as ROB. Not a knock on ROB, but being in a region with some good MKs really makes me thing that to beat them you have to a) CP really REALLY well or b) join them.

 

[HolyNightmare]

Swordgard isn't even a MK main, lol. You're probably thinking about KingAce from Ontario, the best MK in Canada who beat Azen at Cot4 and usually place 3rd in Canada below me and Ally. Judge is good but I think I can beat him, it's another KingAce to me. Just need to counter and stay calm and not rush things.

 

[Syde7]

Also, you can tag the "whining" label on whoever- but not moi.

Do I think the matchup is nigh on unwinnable? Yes.
Am I going to pitch a hissy fit about it every now and then? Yes.
Am I going to drop ROB entirely because of it? No.
Am I going to pick up a secondary? Yes.
Am I *always* going to use the secondary against MK? No.

Why? Because I <3 ROB. I look at it like an old car. It used to be all spiffy and new, and now its kind of worn out, slightly rusted, and all that, and there's that one ******* import that you just can't seem to beat consistently in a race. But, you never can bring yourself to get rid of that car. You and it have a lot of miles between you. And so, you try and fix up the car as best you can, all the while saying "You dumb ol' piece of junk, you." But, its a term of endearment.

QUICKLY! Someone cue the "awwww" soundbyte and the "father teaches son a life-lesson" theme!

 

[Landry]

Yeah, I guess it was KingAce I was thinking of. Judge is really, really good though, and it's hard to say you'd win. I'd have to see an actual game before I pass judgment. But Holy, out of curiosity have you beaten any other big names MKs?

 

[HolyNightmare]

Yeah, I guess it was KingAce I was thinking of. Judge is really, really good though, and it's hard to say you'd win. I'd have to see an actual game before I pass judgment. But Holy, out of curiosity have you beaten any other big names MKs?

I don't travel much, I've played M2k and Ksizzle in friendlies that's about it.

 

[stingers]

how'd you do against ksizzle?

 

[Landry]

Okay, that's sort of what I thought. When you graduate do you plan on traveling like your brother?

 

[HolyNightmare]

how'd you do against ksizzle?

Pretty much even, depending on where we played mostly so CP are pretty importants.

 

[stingers]

chibowned.

 

[HolyNightmare]

chibowned.

Kzissle plays Ninjalink's ROB all the time IIRC which is pretty darn obvious since he did some stuff M2K didn't do, he has more ROB experience. Still doesn't mean much since I heard NL recently beat Ksizzle's MK with ROB. Chibo probably did bettter with Wario because Ksizzle doesn't know the match-up as well.

 

[stingers]

since I heard NL recently beat Ksizzle's MK with ROB.

Hey, would you look at that. @.@

It sounds like I was right. And Hugs, Chibo, and all the other naysayers were absolutely wrong. Learn the game before you count your character out for the count, please.

And Chibo, don't insult NC anymore.

 

[HugS™]

Hey, would you look at that. @.@

It sounds like I was right. And Hugs, Chibo, and all the other naysayers were absolutely wrong. Learn the game before you count your character out for the count, please.

And Chibo, don't insult NC anymore.

Ksizzle? Yeah I'm sure he's great, but he's no Tyrant/DSF based on tournament records. I mean, I've beaten Havok here on the WC, he's probably going to be ranked 7th or so on the next update. So he could roughly be compared with Ksizzle. But winning once or twice doesn't cloud my judgment on the match up.

This isn't about whining. I don't just whine. You're talking to a ROB that does beat almost every MK except for Tyrant/DSF/M2k, has more experience than you, lives in a higher skilled area, and has more experience than anyone here with maining a mid tier character and taking him to levels far beyond what was expected.

I hope that's enough clout for you to put me beyond the level of simple "Whiner". It's not an issue of me giving up too easily or not knowing enough. It's an issue of understanding the circumstances far more than some of you claiming we just aren't trying hard enough.

So why don't YOU learn the game first, before you try and lecture me on what Super Smash Brothers is all about.

 

[lain]

Holy may be able to beat Affinity, but not Judge. But the thing is, you don't even have to be good with MK to be good with MK. Lain beat Judge's MK with MK. Judge. The 3rd of 4th best MK in the world. And Lain had never used MK in tourney before that.

Not true. I've used MK many times in tourney before that. I use mostly MK for doubles, and for the REALLY gay stages I go MK.

 

[Mag!c]

Also, you can tag the "whining" label on whoever- but not moi.

Do I think the matchup is nigh on unwinnable? Yes.
Am I going to pitch a hissy fit about it every now and then? Yes.
Am I going to drop ROB entirely because of it? No.
Am I going to pick up a secondary? Yes.
Am I *always* going to use the secondary against MK? No.

Why? Because I <3 ROB. I look at it like an old car. It used to be all spiffy and new, and now its kind of worn out, slightly rusted, and all that, and there's that one ******* import that you just can't seem to beat consistently in a race. But, you never can bring yourself to get rid of that car. You and it have a lot of miles between you. And so, you try and fix up the car as best you can, all the while saying "You dumb ol' piece of junk, you." But, its a term of endearment.

QUICKLY! Someone cue the "awwww" soundbyte and the "father teaches son a life-lesson" theme!

<3 D'awwww. <3

 

[stingers]

All the qualifications in the world don't stop someone from posting stupid things. "ROB has a definite ceiling."? Give me a break. If it's a definite ceiling, it must be definable. So please, describe to me the best humanly possible ROB that you cannot get absolutely any better than (and this has to apply solely to ROB, this can't apply to other characters without saying that all other characters have a definite ceiling as well), and then we'll talk.

 

[Emblem Lord]

The MK match-up is ROB's ceiling.

bam.

 

[Darth Waffles]

Not true. I've used MK many times in tourney before that. I use mostly MK for doubles, and for the REALLY gay stages I go MK.

Lain's plan:

Make me cry at the big-name MKs getting 3-stocked with Ice Climbers game one
What? Brinstar? MK dittos game two =P

And the love theme you're looking for is this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VMCiewc7mE&feature=related

Slow motion, running toward ROB in an empty green field with rolling hills, beautiful flowers, and a rich blue sky

Romeo and Juliet Fantasy Overture (Not "Love Theme")

 

[Teh Future]

Lain going MK on a stage like RC means nothing. He has just as good of a chance of winning with D3 vs MK on any gay stage and that matchup is terrible on bad stages.

Also lol at Holy saying that he went even with ksissle after chibo came in here crying about how it was impossible to beat him with ROB