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Is chain grabbing cheap?
- Thread starter MastaShake99
- Start date
SwordmasterXXXI
Smash Journeyman
Someone on gamefaqs deleted my and flamed me for chain grabbing his Wolf as Pikachu online........
It isn't cheap. Only scrubs will complain about it.
It isn't cheap. Only scrubs will complain about it.
brinboy789
Smash Champion
how? i said that scrubs call it cheap, but it is an efficient tactic in conpetitiev play.Great argument there.....
That is a logical fallacy right there.
...
LatexRhombus
Smash Journeyman
most of the stuff that is very effective could be called cheap...so is chain grabbing cheap...sure...do i chain grab and am i ok with it when other people chain grab me...absolutely
paulleh
Smash Apprentice
Chaingrabs aren't that cheap, if they we're, all the chain grabbers would be top tier. Only two of the top 6 can actually chaingrab and they aren't near as broken as metaknight.
Joxer
Smash Apprentice
Sounds logical to me. There is also the argument "Don't get grabbed!"
I don't have a problem being CG'd by IC's. It takes so much skill to do it, that even if you've mastered it, its easy to screw up the timing by a few frames and lose the CG. Anyways, its easy to seperate the IC's and kill them off too (relatively speaking, of course). Also, their grab range sucks.
Hive
Smash Lord
These characters aren't top tier because of characters that avoid their cgs most of the time though... ... if DDD could cg all characters effectively he would be up there in first with mk hands down.
>.> not everyone who doesn't think CGs are legit to skill level are scrubs btw... (brinboy789, swordmasterxxxi) and a lot of cg arguments are quite intelligent as are the arguments for cgs...
My main argument revolves around the skill used to cg (not ICS who I think are kwl), how situational it is, and how ridiculously uneven it causes certain matchups to become that could OTHERWISE be more evened. Not whether they should be banned or ZOMG I GOT CG'D ONCE AND I THOUGHT IT WAS BROKEN
"don't get grabbed" is still, as always, almost laughable though. :/
>.> not everyone who doesn't think CGs are legit to skill level are scrubs btw... (brinboy789, swordmasterxxxi) and a lot of cg arguments are quite intelligent as are the arguments for cgs...
My main argument revolves around the skill used to cg (not ICS who I think are kwl), how situational it is, and how ridiculously uneven it causes certain matchups to become that could OTHERWISE be more evened. Not whether they should be banned or ZOMG I GOT CG'D ONCE AND I THOUGHT IT WAS BROKEN
"don't get grabbed" is still, as always, almost laughable though. :/
LoyalSoldier
Smash Apprentice
The fallacy was in the way you worded it that anyone who says it is cheap is a scrub. No many good players consider it cheap, but they know that it will always be part of the game.
A note to everyone is that just because something is cheap doesn't make it broken.
You don't have to be a noob to be a scrub.
LoyalSoldier
Smash Apprentice
And that goes against my point how?
Because you think thinking like a scrub is linked to a player's skill, when it's obviously not.
LoyalSoldier
Smash Apprentice
Um ok....Generally a scrub is also known as a bench warmer in sports because they are not good enough to start.......
So yes "scrub" is linked to player skills.
Have fun making your own definitions........
You're having more fun than me at it, it seems.Um ok....Generally a scrub is also known as a bench warmer in sports because they are not good enough to start.......
So yes "scrub" is linked to player skills.
Have fun making your own definitions........
LoyalSoldier
Smash Apprentice
Scrub
(n.) one who is no longer new to a game but still exhibits novice tendencies
Also known as "NOT THAT GOOD!" sheesh you are going out of your way to make a irrelevant point and the funny thing is you still haven't made any counter point because you apparently don't even know what I was talking about in the first place.
It doesn't fit your description of it.
I think I made my point, which is relevent since only scrub think something is cheap in a ''Play to win'' idea.
Xanthus
Smash Apprentice
The only thing in the world of chain grabs I dislike is how easy falco's CG to dair is to perform. You can do dmg (0-death), and it's not proportional to your skill. You can have somebody who has superior spacing and technique who does maybe 100 dmg, but all you have to do is land a single grab and you can EASILY get a kill.
I'm fine with ice climbers, their chain grab requires technique, timing, and skill. But Falco's... well my nephew can do it.
It's one of those things that tip the scale in terms of skill and reward. I'm fine with everybody elses CG though. But falco's 0-death is TOO easy.
I'm fine with ice climbers, their chain grab requires technique, timing, and skill. But Falco's... well my nephew can do it.
It's one of those things that tip the scale in terms of skill and reward. I'm fine with everybody elses CG though. But falco's 0-death is TOO easy.
LoyalSoldier
Smash Apprentice
No it fits perfectly. Because I stated that someone can be a good player and still think someone is cheap.
Actually quite the opposite. I have seen pros at fighting games like Marvel vs Capcom 2 or other street fighter games call something cheap, but they still knew it was going to happen so they had to plan for it.
Likewise I say chain grabbing is cheap, but part of the game. Of course cheap doesn't mean that it is unbeatable. It just means the returns are good for the amount of effort put into its use. IE Falco's chain grab is rather easy to pull off and very effective. Over powered is when those returns are so good that it is nearly unbeatable. Which so far I haven't called anything over powered.
Kind of like grabbing snake during his recovery and letting him fall to his death is cheap, but hey I expect it if I play as Snake.
Levitas
the moon
I just asked the guy next to me, and he said competitively anything goes, and it could be considered cheap for when friends are playing for fun. Same goes for edgehogging.
Definitive answer.
Definitive answer.
CR4SH
Smash Lord
Obviously no. If you think it is, you're a pretty great example of the true definition of scrub.
i believe certain variations are cheap such as the d3 infinite on weegee
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
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*rubs face*
Summary of this thread:
Person 1: Chaingrabs are cheap, but it's part of the game.
Person 2: No, chaingrabs are not cheap at all, scrub!
I find it amusing that there's an argument over this, but there's not really an argument at all.
Summary of this thread:
Person 1: Chaingrabs are cheap, but it's part of the game.
Person 2: No, chaingrabs are not cheap at all, scrub!
I find it amusing that there's an argument over this, but there's not really an argument at all.
LoyalSoldier
Smash Apprentice
Nah we spent more time arguing the meaning of scrub....
Sneaky Yoshi
Smash Rookie
i believe nothing is cheap or "dishonarable"
ppl who claim something like chaingrabbing as cheap are just johns
ppl who claim something like chaingrabbing as cheap are just johns
I'd like video evidence of this. Or you just going into Melee doing it. No chaingrab in Melee can be teched out of. If they can be, then they're not chaingrabs, they're tech-chased throws.
ChRed2AKrisp
Smash Master
I'm fairly sure what he meant was that no chain throw is infinite, eventaully you reach a percent where you can either jump or tech out of it. Also most chain throws in melee are subject o DI, so some things that would be chain grabs aren't if they DI correctly. Also, CGs like marth's and fox's are foiled by platforms. He also meant that CGs in melee involve a tumbling state, rather than the character sliding. Things like dedede's chaingrab are like foxes waveshine, except you can't DI them, and they are easier and have a bigger hitbox, also each one deals more than 10%. Similarly, you don't move farther with each throw. All chain grabs in melee are eventually escapable, witht eh exception of wobbling, which is banned from most tournaments. CGing in Brawl for the most part does not take as much skill as in melee, since there is no prediction or reaction involved. You don't even hav to time the grabs for DDD's inifinite, if you just mash grab really fast yo'll always get it. IC's are the exception, and even then once you learn how to do it it's easy, since your opponent can't do anything about it and can't change his trajectory at all. The only reason it's not banned is that it's all the ICs have going for them >_<.
GameFAQS is cheap and the GameFAQ mods consist of mostly Scrubs.
That's not the universally accepted definition. Another is "One who, among other things, complain about things being 'cheap' and consturct a set of artifical rules designed only for them and whoever they feel should join them, as in 'I shall never chaingrab' and other perfectly legit (i.e. Tourney Legal) tactics due to a false sense of 'honor'".
A newbie is not necessarily a Scrub and a Scrub is not necessarily a newbie, but most of the time, Scrubs are newbies because once you've grown out of that stage and gotten a better insight of what Competitive gaming is all about, you will most probably realize that they aren't really cheap.
I spent my first tournament getting chaingrabbed to death by Marth and Captain Falcon. That was during my very 1st week of playing Melee at all. What did I do? I came back stronger than ever and eventually managed to beat both of my opponents in tournaments.
KageIsGoingDown
Smash Apprentice
Lol I find it funny that people think it's cheap but if IC's do it it's not. It shouldn't matter what character uses it, you should have the same opinion about CG's for everyone. Personally, if I get CG ****ed by the IC's I'm pretty impressed. Mind you, I dont think any chaingrabs are cheap. It's pretty easy to CG with Ganon so I take full advantage of that if I can. But then we have scrubs left and right whining about CG's. The people who whine and complain about CG's are the people who can't chaingrab, otheriwse they would be doing it. So cheap? No, it just seperates the men from the scrubs.
The thing I find the funniest though is people who say CG's are cheap are usually the ones who are either 1) not good at the game itself or 2) complain about CG's being cheap one minute, and then next minute spam moves and then say "If you be cheap, then so can I" lol
The thing I find the funniest though is people who say CG's are cheap are usually the ones who are either 1) not good at the game itself or 2) complain about CG's being cheap one minute, and then next minute spam moves and then say "If you be cheap, then so can I" lol
BanjoKazooiePro
Smash Champion
Chain grabbing isn't cheap at all. If a character has a chain grab, learn how to dodge it. You should be ready for a chain grab if you're playing someone like DDD, or falco. Whenever I play them I simply wait for them grab, as I see it coming. Some people are less grab happy yes, but for the most part, at a low % most characters with a chain grab will try to do it. Chain grabbing was created for a reason, they wouldn't have put it in the game if it was too cheap. It's a strategy that can be easily avoided.
The Scrub mentality is that if it's technically difficult to do, then it's not cheap.
It's not cheap, even if it accomplishes the exact same result or even worse because it requires, you know, skill. In other words, it's cheap if they themselves can't pick a character up and win with them without any prior training. Wii forbid they actually gain some technical skill at Smash, at which point the "It takes skill!" point becomes moot, really.
It's cheap as long as it's humanly possible to learn and that's all there is to either. Either that or it isn't cheap at all.
DKKountry
Smash Ace
I always wonder if there was anyone at Nintendo when Brawl was being made who noticed the possibility of chaingrabs but just let it go. Don't get me wrong, I know it's not an intended part of the game, I'm just speculating that SOMEONE might've noticed and not said anything.
I suppose we'll probably never know, but it's an interesting thought nonetheless.
I suppose we'll probably never know, but it's an interesting thought nonetheless.
misterpimp5757
Smash Ace
it can change the outcome of a match no matter what......i dont really think its cheap but some matches i see it a different way...
So can anything in the game.
The Great Leon
Smash Champion
play tew win?
brawlmaniac
Smash Lord
it is cheap but it's really fun to do. Go to Snake's stage and you can chain grab them over and over to 400% damage off of that wall!
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Smash_Gigas
Smash Lord
In my opinion, chaingrabbing is fair game. Infiniting a 0-Death on the other hand, I don't like. Makes the game less balanced (unless it's ICs. They take skill, and no, I don't use ICs.).