interesting thread....

[meepxzero]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236443

some top players are thinking ic are 3rd best and should be moved to S tier.

Thoughts?

imo they are definitely 3rd best in the game, but im starting to slightly scew that they are the best in the game.

 

[Hylian]

I see no top players in that thread lol.

 

[Teh Future]

Inui is the only player that I even recognise that said anything about ICs.

I really dont think they are top tier you can talk about potential all you want but in the end its easier to seperate and kill nana than it is to get a grab. Tounament results are also stupid to look at because people win tournaments depending on how good THEY are not thier character. M2K wins because he is good, not because of MK. When Lain wins its because of him, not ICs. Obviously character choice plays some role but I dont think you can look at tournament results and say look this character isnt viable because they havent won any large scale tournaments.

IMO top characters are MK, Snake, Marf, Wario > ?

Id place G&W, D3, Olimar, Falco, Diddy, and prob. others above ICs too.

 

[Snipa4800]

Inui is the only player that I even recognise that said anything about ICs.

I really dont think they are top tier you can talk about potential all you want but in the end its easier to seperate and kill nana than it is to get a grab. Tounament results are also stupid to look at because people win tournaments depending on how good THEY are not thier character. M2K wins because he is good, not because of MK. When Lain wins its because of him, not ICs. Obviously character choice plays some role but I dont think you can look at tournament results and say look this character isnt viable because they havent won any large scale tournaments.

This ^.
Icies arent S tier.

 

[meepxzero]

woooow. I swear only me and lain have faith in our main -_-.

everyone who disagrees with me go practice ur infinites and get better.

I win a lot and i truly believe its cuz of ic. When people get passed the learning curve they are god tier.

 

[swordgard]

woooow. I swear only me and lain have faith in our main -_-.

everyone who disagrees with me go practice ur infinites and get better.

......



They are either 3rd or 4th.


If you guys cant see how powerful a character with an infinite is in a game where falco is based so high mostly due to his cg, then i dunnow what game you guys are playing.

 

[Teh Future]

And falco is completely overrated, purley because of the CG. He shot up to the third ranking because of the CG, but he only dropped one place because the CG isnt his only good atribute, and the fact that he doesnt have any very bad ones.

ICs would be awesome if you could avoid being seperated and having nana gimped, but its only partially under your control and has almost nothing to do with your skill level. And thats not even mentioning the fact that they have the most gimpable recovery ever for a "top character"

 

[Hylian]

And falco is completely overrated, purley because of the CG. He shot up to the third ranking because of the CG, but he only dropped one place because the CG isnt his only good atribute, and the fact that he doesnt have any very bad ones.

ICs would be awesome if you could avoid being seperated and having nana gimped, but its only partially under your control and has almost nothing to do with your skill level. And thats not even mentioning the fact that they have the most gimpable recovery ever for a "top character"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvHbBMXJf5E

 

[Teh Future]

My post should have read falco WAS completely overrated because of the CG, like ICs are now. Falco is still a solid character without it, while ICs aren't even considered a good character without their infinites, its their only defining characteristic.

 

[swordgard]

My post should have read falco WAS completely overrated because of the CG, like ICs are now. Falco is still a solid character without it, while ICs aren't even considered a good character without their infinites, its their only defining characteristic.

Im then wondering how the **** i almost took down holy missing all my cgs at bisb in a 7-3 matchups by ics boards standards. I mean, your telling me that i almost beat someone who got 13th at apex in a 7-3 matchup with a character where i cant use their defining trait?


I guess that i must be that good, because by some of you guys standards, what i did is literally defying the laws of brawl. Im not skilled enough to do that.


If you guys cant see whats wrong with the current ics boards, i guess nothing will ever do it.

 

[momochuu]

You realllllly like to talk about yourself. :x

Anyway, I was thinking about this earlier. If the ICs didn't have such a glaring weakness in Nana, they'd definitely be S tier material. The fact that you can just run away in Brawl and play extremely safe doesn't make it any better.

 

[Teh Future]

I dont think anybody has said anything about ROB being a bad matchup recently. ICs do have good atributes besides the CG, but not enough to make them #3 in the game.

Olimar boards have ROB listed as a 65-35 matchup. I think it is ROBs worst matchup in the game. Thats not a board thinking their character is terrible, its called a developing metagame. ICs do well enough against ROB without the CG because they are able to juggle him with upairs and **** once they are under him.

I dont think anyone here thinks ICs are a terrible character, I think saying they are the 3rd best on the game when they have some very obvious flaws against flawless characters is too much.

Edit: That set was awesome, it seems like the rest of texas is finally catching up to Dojo. I hope that its more the metagame is catching up to MK more than Texas just getting really good, but I guess time will only tell Thats the second time Ive watched someone loose a set against someone they three stock LOL must suck

 

[demonictoonlink]

I have no intelligent argument, but I say IC's could possibly make it to S...

 

[Snipa4800]

woooow. I swear only me and lain have faith in our main -_-.

everyone who disagrees with me go practice ur infinites and get better.

I disagree and I rarely miss a grab o_o;;.

......



They are either 3rd or 4th.


If you guys cant see how powerful a character with an infinite is in a game where falco is based so high mostly due to his cg, then i dunnow what game you guys are playing.

How can you even compare the two?
Besides falcos being painfully easy , our grabs have a kryptonite better known as nana.

 

[PhantomX]

Texas is getting really good. We have a point to prove after Apex.

And swordgard, we know you love yourself, you don't need to tell us every time you post.

 

[swordgard]

You realllllly like to talk about yourself. :x

Anyway, I was thinking about this earlier. If the ICs didn't have such a glaring weakness in Nana, they'd definitely be S tier material. The fact that you can just run away in Brawl and play extremely safe doesn't make it any better.

Its really cause if i say anything like that about someone else, then il get critiscism for sounding like an ***.


For example, if i really say what i believe.


Which is that lain wouldnt place nearly as high using any other higher tiered char besides maybe if he learned MK/Snake, and that with D3 he wouldnt place nearly as high because as much as you guys want to deny this, ice climbers are supposed to be way higher on the tier list, but then people will only say that i am doubting lains ability and that i am wrong.


Or when i say that ice climbers are 6-4 over zss and that everyone disagrees despite top players agreeing over this.

Or the fact that we are starting to have alot of regions with 1 ice climber dominating despite the hard learning curve and proving that they should be way higher.

But you know, whatever floats this boards boat.



On that thing, if you come by lain, no offence, this isnt targeted at you lacking skill or anything, because you dont. Its the fact that people keep thinking ics are not anywhere near S tier when people like you and meep keep proving us otherwise.

I swear, +2 on the tier list for all these high tourney placings?

 

[Snipa4800]

Its pretty sad that the rare threads we get either arent useful or turn into an arguement ._.''.

 

[swordgard]

Its pretty sad that the rare threads we get either arent useful or turn into an arguement ._.''.

Actually, this isnt what i find the most sad around these boards >.>



But yeah, i only took the most extreme argument possible to show you how foolish this board can be sometimes.


Whatsover, just having an infinite on the whole cast which is not so situationnal makes you S tier. You dont need years of tourney domination to show this.

 

[KRDsonic]

Edit: That set was awesome, it seems like the rest of texas is finally catching up to Dojo. I hope that its more the metagame is catching up to MK more than Texas just getting really good, but I guess time will only tell Thats the second time Ive watched someone loose a set against someone they three stock LOL must suck

Unfortunately Xyro banned MK from Houston tournys, so... we'll get behind again. Our TO tends to ban stuff that holds us back...


Anyways, I definently don't think Ice Climbers are the 3rd best character in the game. Could they make it to top tier? I think that's a possibility, but due to how easy it is to counterpick against Ice Climbers seems like it would put them farther down, to me.

 

[momochuu]

I'm not sure what's so bad about these boards. There's some umm... not informed (?) people here and there, but it's not really bad at all. =/

 

[KRDsonic]

The IC boards just seem unfriendly to me, always people arguing on both sides, I usually try to stay out of it :/

That's why I like the wolf community, everyone's friendly there :D

 

[Deleted member]

hmm.....very good arguments for both sides haha. Now that Ice climbers have moved up even further on the tier list its getting even harder to decide just how good they really are lol. On one side of the argument,their infinites on everyone make them REALLY effective and give them literally the best comeback tool in the game, while on the other hand the few characters that surpass IC in rank are nearly flawless, while IC's have nana as a huge flaw,making it hard to argue that they will go up much more on the list compared to the other characters



It's a tough call,but from what I know now, I think 5th place,near the bottom of S is where they belong.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

And then there's people like me who come here to post nothing particularly meaningful.

 

[meepxzero]

People miss the fact nana is harder to gimp in brawl than melee. She dies at almost 0% in melee and at the most 80% in brawl (if played properly). So you have a little more to play with. Almost any character that alters the way the opponent plays is top tier. You have mk and snake who force you to camp, diddy to watch for bananas, and ic pretty much forces you to air camp and feel really uncomfortable.

Sure they get countered on bad stages. But i legitably feel rainbow cruise isnt a bad stage if you play it right. The only bad stage we really have is brinstar.

 

[Xyro77]

Unfortunately Xyro banned MK from Houston tournys, so... we'll get behind again. Our TO tends to ban stuff that holds us back...

wrong(as usual). I ban the BROKEN things in this game.

*xyro exits*

 

[T3h Albino]

You should ban the game xyro ;B
<3 IC boards

 

[lain]

1234567890

 

[lain]

Swordgard, it is no secret we have to hear about your exploits and how ****ing spectacular you are at this game whenever you make a post.

Now, as nice as I am, I find it hard to constantly just be "ok" with the **** you say about me and other players. You constantly say the wrong things.

For example, if i really say what i believe.


Which is that lain wouldnt place nearly as high using any other higher tiered char besides maybe if he learned MK/Snake, and that with D3 he wouldnt place nearly as high because as much as you guys want to deny this, ice climbers are supposed to be way higher on the tier list, but then people will only say that i am doubting lains ability and that i am wrong.

FYI I've won entire tourneys with just DDD. What have you done? Beaten HolyNightmare.... once?

Or the fact that we are starting to have alot of regions with 1 ice climber dominating despite the hard learning curve and proving that they should be way higher.

AFAIK, Meep and I are the only IC players "dominating" anything.

On that thing, if you come by lain, no offence, this isnt targeted at you lacking skill or anything, because you dont.

You say that, yet 4 lines above this you say this

For example, if i really say what i believe.


Which is that lain wouldnt place nearly as high using any other higher tiered char besides maybe if he learned MK/Snake, and that with D3 he wouldnt place nearly as high because as much as you guys want to deny this, ice climbers are supposed to be way higher on the tier list, but then people will only say that i am doubting lains ability and that i am wrong.

So what are you saying then? Are you calling me a bad player? Am I just exploiting IC's? Which one? Because neither sound like an appealing thing to say to me.

Get over yourself man. You're trying too hard.

 

[istudying]

Jerry Jerry Jerry !
No i think Lain is right everyone here that plays Climbers doesn't dominate in tournaments like Lain and Meep do.
Whe call them pro because of there playing style.

 

[swordgard]

Meh, all im saying is ice climbers are helping you overall get these tournament scores, just like they are helping other players, and that they should be getting higher on the tier list. There is however the fact that they are your primary main (do you only second D3 in bad matchups? I thought you did D= ), which makes it totally understandable as to why your ice climbers may be better than your D3. I simply believe your revealing to everyone how much potential ice climbers have and that nobody seems to be noticing >.>

Alright heres what im gonna do to show that ice climbers are top tier.




List of ice climbers getting repetitivly top 3 in their region despite being the only or almost the only one playing them (aka ice climbers is not getting top 3 due to popularity or w/e its called).


Meep, mains ics, i dont know his exact placing, i believe hes 2nd in his region.

Lain, who is undoubtingly first in his region and probably 1st in the continent(does japan play good at this game???), and who also got a very notable tourney result, especially for a whooping 3rd place at apex. Who will also probably (well at least imo) make top 4 genesis and once and for all prove that ics have potential to be S tier.

Hylian, who got 2nd i believe at its last tourney and appears to be becoming one of the most proemminent player in his region.

Ambrose, currently rated as 3rd(or was it 2nd), who kept dominating GTA.

As for me, well nobody wants to hear about it. I guess if your really interested, just go look for the montreal PR.

As for other notable people who i hear alot of good about their ice climbers, like L!nk who seems to be dominating germany, kawaii whos placing very well online, and nintendogs who gets first in local tourneys, or melee1 who places also very well in the south, i think it just shows how good ice climbers really are.

So that makes, er, Midwest, canada, East coast and South having Ice climbers getting top 3 in the tourneys. Imo thats S-Tier. If you see another character who places so well in so many regions, hes probably already in S-Tier.

I hope everyone also noticed how the ice climbers players seem to be mostly the ones moving up on the PRs and not down, because as meep stated, the more you play someone, the more predictable they get, and the easier your grabbing will become.



Also, notice everyone that in my previous post concerning how i played versus holynightmare, that i was degrading my own skills by that standard. Im only saying that if i went by the ice climbers board standards all the time, then that would somehow make me godlike at the game, because i wasnt able to use their "defining trait" yet got close to beating him. Im not godlike at the game, and far from it, which means that a few of ice climbers standards boards must be wrong. That was the only point i wanted to get accross.



On the last 2 things: Lain, why the number series lol?
Also, is Xyro using search to find wherever hes mentionned?


EDIT: Can i get lains/meep/hylians help in the solo climber matchup thread. Feeling lonely thar D=

 

[Hylian]

No, lain and meep are the only ones with several notable accomplishments. Maybe Fly aminita as well. I haven't been playing IC's long enough again to be considered good or do anything.

Swordguard, telling someone they win because of their character, even partially, is very insulting. Characters are just tools we use to progress in the brackets. I have more trouble with lains D3 then I do with his Ice Climbers whenever I play him at big tournaments and it's really obvious he's just a ****ing good player.

Not one single player wins at high levels by relying on their character. It takes a lot of skill regardless of who you play to beat top players.

The problems people are having with your posting is your using yourself in examples your citing from playing one person. You often cite single examples, rather then noting trends which are for more convincing.

Just sayin'

 

[swordgard]

No, lain and meep are the only ones with several notable accomplishments. Maybe Fly aminita as well. I haven't been playing IC's long enough again to be considered good or do anything.

Swordguard, telling someone they win because of their character, even partially, is very insulting. Characters are just tools we use to progress in the brackets. I have more trouble with lains D3 then I do with his Ice Climbers whenever I play him at big tournaments and it's really obvious he's just a ****ing good player.

Not one single player wins at high levels by relying on their character. It takes a lot of skill regardless of who you play to beat top players.

The problems people are having with your posting is your using yourself in examples your citing from playing one person. You often cite single examples, rather then noting trends which are for more convincing.

Just sayin'

I cant do much else because

A) I cant really quote wifi, its sad but its not a competitive place(its a good training ground though)
B) Its been 3 times that GTA failed at showing up to our tourneys and i cant go OoS yet(though i will july 25-26th =D ), so i cant really compare to them like kingace and others.
C)Like i can quote you my tourney results, but realistically, we dont have that many known great players, and during the last tourneys (aka for 4 months now) i havent played ally either due to brackets and we dont friendly lol. Well he wasnt there last tourney, he was playing lain i believe.

I can try to quote trends, but my tourney placings dont mean so much compared to who i try to beat.


Also, as for lain, im not saying he sucks. Im saying hes playing whoever he seems to have the most affinity with, i know that every top player could **** a meh player using any semi decent char, its because you have superior spacing and mindgames. But in theory, only 1 good player needs to place to show a characters true potential, which is more than enough if he places consistently good. Which is the case for lain here.

Now not only that, but many regions with only 1 ice climbers are start to have ics placing top 3 on a semi regular basis.

Get what im sayin?

 

[l!nk_aut]

srsly guys.. ic´s are top.

the future will prove this right.

 

[meepxzero]

haha i guess im the only one that relies on them XD i really cant play other chars for crap (I get so angry when i dont get the same high risk high reward ic give). I guess that same debate can go for mk mains. They are never as good with other chars.

 

[swordgard]

haha i guess im the only one that relies on them XD i really cant play other chars for crap (I get so angry when i dont get the same high risk high reward ic give). I guess that same debate can go for mk mains. They are never as good with other chars.

I can semi play snake, but in tourney il rarely use anyone but ics(if i do so its only for the lulz)

 

[Smasher89]

IC's are definiatly like top 3-5 in the game, since the grab is like some risk for very high reward. Ice blocks can force approaches (which means a better chance for grab oppoturnitys) and blizzard as a good brickwall tool and mindgame combomove...

 

[Deleted member]

haha yeah I'm really confident the ice climbers will move up even more on the tier list. My absolute favorite part about them is being the ultimate comeback character hahaha. That's what made me choose them in the first place. Being down 1 stock at 90 percent against someone who has 3 stock doesnt mean anything if they're grabbed 3 times. I realize those grabs might be difficult to land but still,just the idea that they could pull it off is really awesome. It makes Lucario's attack buff look pale as a comeback tool,hahahaha.

 

[lain]

Also, as for lain, im not saying he sucks. Im saying hes playing whoever he seems to have the most affinity with, i know that every top player could **** a meh player using any semi decent char, its because you have superior spacing and mindgames. But in theory, only 1 good player needs to place to show a characters true potential, which is more than enough if he places consistently good. Which is the case for lain here.

Now not only that, but many regions with only 1 ice climbers are start to have ics placing top 3 on a semi regular basis.

Get what im sayin?

Are you saying I'm ONLY good with IC, where in turn "good" players can play other character at least semi-effectively?

Cause, you know, I can kind of play like 10 characters.

One person placing high consistently with climbers doesn't NECESSARILY mean the character is thus a top tier character. Case in point: Reflex winning with PT.

It would take a LOT more then that.

 

[swordgard]

Are you saying I'm ONLY good with IC, where in turn "good" players can play other character at least semi-effectively?

Cause, you know, I can kind of play like 10 characters.

One person placing high consistently with climbers doesn't NECESSARILY mean the character is thus a top tier character. Case in point: Reflex winning with PT.

It would take a LOT more then that.

All im saying is ice climbers are your best characters, though you seem to be also very good with D3. And just like any top player, im sure you can use alot of chars to **** anyone whos decent at the game.


Not, Reflex winning with PT does mean something, it means PT has unused potential. It just depends at what tourney you win with any character. You carried ice climbers to 3rd place at apex which means alot more than reflex winning with PT some smaller tourneys. 1 player can show a characters potential.


Well, can anyone give the exact definition of what tiers should represent? Cause i saw way too many different definitions. That would most probably help.


But im gonna say that have the potential to be third.

 

[Prawn]

ICs are S Tier as much as I hate to say it,

6th, 5th, 4th, or 3rd. Not sure which really, especially since we have a bad MU against Snakes. I like them being farther down and less known, haha

Are you saying I'm ONLY good with IC

In the words of Dr. Cox

"Wrong wrong wrong wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong, YOURE WRONGGGGG"