Instant Ground Throw and Single Naner Lock (0 death combo with naner lock in PROVEN!)

[Le_THieN]

That's BETTER, not worse. Obviously not better for winning personal money, but for making us better solid players. If you have weaknesses and leaving them open, then you're not a good solid player. You're just playing inexperienced players who don't know what to do YET.

Yeah, I concur with this wholeheartedly. Why are people still so concerned with trying to keep Diddy one of Brawl's best-kept secrets? Honestly, it's not even really that much of a secret anymore, nor should we fear a surge of new users over-saturating the competitive scene. Texas has a horrid infestation of Meta Knight mains, but only three or four of them are ever truly recognized for their inconceivable talent with the character. This will hold true for any other character in the game if the trend continues elsewhere.

 

[Advent Lee]

Yeah, I concur with this wholeheartedly. Why are people still so concerned with trying to keep Diddy one of Brawl's best-kept secrets? Honestly, it's not even really that much of a secret anymore, nor should we fear a surge of new users over-saturating the competitive scene. Texas has a horrid infestation of Meta Knight mains, but only three or four of them are ever truly recognized for their inconceivable talent with the character. This will hold true for any other character in the game if the trend continues elsewhere.

True

:monkey:

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

Yeah, I concur with this wholeheartedly. Why are people still so concerned with trying to keep Diddy one of Brawl's best-kept secrets? Honestly, it's not even really that much of a secret anymore, nor should we fear a surge of new users over-saturating the competitive scene. Texas has a horrid infestation of Meta Knight mains, but only three or four of them are ever truly recognized for their inconceivable talent with the character. This will hold true for any other character in the game if the trend continues elsewhere.

It was important at the beginning of the competitive Brawl because if less people played Diddy, then less people would be experienced with the match up, which means more money for the Diddy's who know their match ups. With all these videos out now, everyone knows what Diddy can do, so keeping him a secret is pointless.

 

[IDK]

so, i was thinking a bit, and if you just want a quick combo, you can SH dthrow a banana, do an airdodge>instant downthrow while still in the air to hit them with the banana again, then throw the banana (you could glide toss forward) at them (forward), then follow up with combos.

and blistering, it is an infinite, if you're perfect.

 

[DFEAR]

I'm having one hell of a time getting the Instant Ground Throw to work, but I think I'm starting to get the hang of the single banana lock. It's one of the flashiest looking ATs we've got, and while it's pretty difficult to do consistently, I can definitely see it being a major weapon for Diddy.

Nice discoveries! =)

Just recently ive been learning how to use Diddy for the sake of quitting MK for better learning purposes and this is quite one of the most flashiest and useful moves ever. Iv'e been practicing it now for a good set amount of time since the first post iv'e read and i know it works across a whole stage against MK, Pickachu and GNW (so far tested).

edit:
thanks to chromepirate post, im attempting to practice the spike...its ridiculously hard. O_o im sooo a new fan of diddy THANK U!

 

[ADHD]

So here's the deal with the spike so far, as long as their trip animation goes offstage the spike should connect but if they are too close to the edge and they trip, it won't connect. So it has to have some kind of spacing, other wise just end it with an fair if you know the spike won't work. I'm definitely getting this AT down pat and I think it's humanly possible now XD It's situational, but I mean if you have two bananas you can throw one and then start the lock into a spike. It's pretty nice sweet on platformed stages it's just a disappointment that it's hard to find a situation to use it, however getting a double naner lock does happen somewhat once per match at least so this could turn out to be pretty awesome considering it means death most of the time. From what I recall pikachu cannot be spiked with any spacing, he just grabs the edge for some reason. I'll get up a list and test this alot tomorrow okay?

 

[Luigi player]

I also noticed that it can lead to the spike, but it only happened once or twice for me, after that the enemy (MK) always grabbed the edge... =/

 

[ADHD]

Read the front page for the death combo, I did alot of testing on this.

So to summarize it up characters that are both heavy and tall are the easiest to perform this on like ganon, snake, DK, bowser, and dedede. The rest are moderate, and require some prepared spacing but it's not difficult for them, and pikachu/metaknight require perfect spacing and their trip has to knick the stage's edge for the spike to connect. It's weird I know. This kicks ***, if you get the single naner lock down pat and manage to get it on a heavy, tall character then it's instant death unless if you screw up. As for the rest, it's like a 60% chance the spike will connect, for pikachu and metaknight it's about a 25% chance which sucks, I hate metaknight. I know I said the heavier, taller characters require basically no prepared spacing, but jigglypuff doesn't either so it's 100% that you will spike her if you don't screw up.

 

[Ori_bro]

holy **** that is so broken if u do it right cant wait to see how this develops

 

[Thirtyfour]

This is what we get for letting him stand up and go all Srs like.

:L Now Falcon's gonna have even more problems with Diddy.
Great.
Hope you happy Chrome
Jerk.







More teams though plz

 

[ADHD]

This is what we get for letting him stand up and go all Srs like.

:L Now Falcon's gonna have even more problems with Diddy.
Great.
Hope you happy Chrome
Jerk.







More teams though plz

yeah sure but tomorrow if i can go i'll be teaming up with crizthakidd probly

 

[Hylian]

Guys, I just messed around with this and LOL.

I took this **** to the next level . I sent Le_Thien a video hehe. KRDsonic will have a video up soon on his youtube account.

This is new .

 

[Count]

I've been working on it, my timing is still a bit off.

I'm too much of klutz!!

 

[Hylian]

You guys are going to flip out over my video .

 

[Le_THieN]

You guys are going to flip out over my video .

LOL, loved the single banana lock with the second banana behind the opponent.

Super rad.

 

[Hylian]

LOL, loved the single banana lock with the second banana behind the opponent.

Super rad.

Haha . That wasn't the main thing I was showing but it was cool yeah . Notice the different ways I do them XD.

Dair?

Pffft.

 

[Le_THieN]

Haha . That wasn't the main thing I was showing but it was cool yeah . Notice the different ways I do them XD.

Dair?

Pffft.

Just to clarify to everyone else: Hylian sent me a replay of this technique done on a giant, flat custom stage. He showcased probably the exact timing for this technique to be considered truly inescapable, and did it while catching the banana with multiple aerials (with the exception of N-air). The last bit of the demonstration showed a variation of NinjaLink's banana choke chain-grab using precisely the single banana lock.

It was all very sexy.

Having seen the exact timing, I was able to pinpoint exactly what I was doing wrong (I wasn't fast-falling and I wasn't gaining enough horizontal distance on my short hops), and have managed to replicate this (while my brother was DIing and trying to roll or get up) up to eight times before my fingers go ********.

This is seriously like Melee all over again.

Good job, Chrome. =)

 

[Hylian]

Yes, good job chrome . This is amazing. I've got it down 100% now with dair, uair, and bair. Uair is the easiest. You can make them turn around if you have a bananna behind them. I can do the spike thing pretty well that's outlined in the first post. It's pretty nifty.

You guys are going to love my video .

I love being technical ^_^. <3 melee fox LOL.

 

[Fluke]

Wow, I can't wait to see your vid.


Diddy keeps getting better and better!

 

[ADHD]

Lol no dair? Hmm I have to see this. Link?

 

[ice_cream_man]

ya i really want to see hylians video. if you can't upload it emailit to vice lol

 

[DFEAR]

Lol no dair? Hmm I have to see this. Link?

yea honestly im using nair instead of dair then fastfall its the same thing with an extra hit sometimes when spaced accordingly and i managed to get my first spike off stage with a cpu snake =D oh btw is there ANY DI in this o-o cause i have yet to use it against my friend? i want to surprise him is all.

 

[ADHD]

yea honestly im using nair instead of dair then fastfall its the same thing with an extra hit sometimes when spaced accordingly and i managed to get my first spike off stage with a cpu snake =D oh btw is there ANY DI in this o-o cause i have yet to use it against my friend? i want to surprise him is all.

i'm not sure what you mean. you have to DI shortly before catching the banana for the best results

 

[Luigi player]

Um when will Hylians vid be up then? I can't wait o_o

 

[Dreadz18x]

diddy boards really kno how to find useful ****. congradulations keep up da good work

yall givin my dogg Advent too much to work wit lol

 

[BrawlBro]

the single naner lock to spike is probably one of the sexiest things in brawl right now.

and i want to see these videos with it done with uair and stuff

 

[ADHD]

the single naner lock to spike is probably one of the sexiest things in brawl right now.

and i want to see these videos with it done with uair and stuff

Dair is the easiest, bc you can fast fall with the c-stick but w/e hylian is weird XD

 

[Le_THieN]

Dair is the easiest, bc you can fast fall with the c-stick but w/e hylian is weird XD

Actually, it seems to me that C-sticking the D-air is initially the most difficult; theoretically, the point of C-sticking aerial attacks in the first place is to avoid accidentally expending your second jump after a full jump or short hop (in the case of using U-airs), or to avoid fast-falling all together (by activating D-airs right before the apex of a full jump or short hop). I've been C-sticking my aerials to avoid both these mishaps for years, but I didn't realize how crucial of a component the fast-fall was to the timing of this banana lock. It's really just one minor adjustment at the end of the day, but it is conceivably much easier to grab the banana with both B-air and U-air because I personally don't have to think too hard about timing three different down inputs on two different joysticks this way.

Additionally, the grab-boxes on both B-air and U-air seem to be much bigger and therefore makes the timing of re-grabbing the banana much more forgiving.

Hylian, do you still have someone slotted to upload this video for you, or do you need me to do it?

 

[AlphaZealot]

So...

I messed around with this for about 20 minutes yesterday. I couldn't really get the lock to work more then 2-3 times using just the Dair. That said, I use to always hate it when a character stood right next to me because I wouldn't know how best to react. The best example here is MK after he does a Tornado: if he lands on top of you there is no really ideal reaction...that is until I started using this **** and instead of going for the lock just glide tossing for regular followups (so MK lands on top of you, you short hop single nana D-throw > D-Air > glide toss follow up/whatever).

Also, the edge spike is sick. I'm hoping this will be the solution to my Pit edge camping problems.

 

[Hylian]

Actually, it seems to me that C-sticking the D-air is initially the most difficult; theoretically, the point of C-sticking aerial attacks in the first place is to avoid accidentally expending your second jump after a full jump or short hop (in the case of using U-airs), or to avoid fast-falling all together (by activating D-airs right before the apex of a full jump or short hop). I've been C-sticking my aerials to avoid both these mishaps for years, but I didn't realize how crucial of a component the fast-fall was to the timing of this banana lock. It's really just one minor adjustment at the end of the day, but it is conceivably much easier to grab the banana with both B-air and U-air because I personally don't have to think too hard about timing three different down inputs on two different joysticks this way.

Additionally, the grab-boxes on both B-air and U-air seem to be much bigger and therefore makes the timing of re-grabbing the banana much more forgiving.

Hylian, do you still have someone slotted to upload this video for you, or do you need me to do it?

KRDsonic is going to upload it. You could also upload it if you don't feel like waiting for him lol.

 

[Luigi player]

Actually, it seems to me that C-sticking the D-air is initially the most difficult; theoretically, the point of C-sticking aerial attacks in the first place is to avoid accidentally expending your second jump after a full jump or short hop (in the case of using U-airs), or to avoid fast-falling all together (by activating D-airs right before the apex of a full jump or short hop). I've been C-sticking my aerials to avoid both these mishaps for years, but I didn't realize how crucial of a component the fast-fall was to the timing of this banana lock. It's really just one minor adjustment at the end of the day, but it is conceivably much easier to grab the banana with both B-air and U-air because I personally don't have to think too hard about timing three different down inputs on two different joysticks this way.

Additionally, the grab-boxes on both B-air and U-air seem to be much bigger and therefore makes the timing of re-grabbing the banana much more forgiving.

Hylian, do you still have someone slotted to upload this video for you, or do you need me to do it?

But bair and uair have landing lag (it's not much but enough to screw up your timing (the jump)).

It is easier to hit your opponent one time with this, but you can't really follow it up, because of the landing lag... it is much easier with the dair...

 

[_Phloat_]

When you say it is 25% on MK, is this human error or is it just the way things are?

Could a person that learned this well enough spike MK every time?

 

[Count]

I don't really think we can answer that yet, phloat, this tech has only been out two days.

 

[Le_THieN]

So...

I messed around with this for about 20 minutes yesterday. I couldn't really get the lock to work more then 2-3 times using just the air. That said, I use to always hate it when a character stood right next to me because I wouldn't know how best to react. The best example here is MK after he does a Tornado: if he lands on top of you there is no really ideal reaction...that is until I started using this **** and instead of going for the lock just glide tossing for regular followups (so MK lands on top of you, you short hop single nana D-throw > D-Air > glide toss follow up/whatever).

I don't think the single banana lock is the definitive solution as far as Mach Tornado follow-ups go. It's my second favorite move to bait and shield with a banana peel in hand. The only other move that is easy and excellent to bait in Meta Knight's arsenal is his D-smash, because a D-smash that's blocked on either side of him will re-space you enough to where you won't miss a glide-toss followup in either direction. MK mains obviously go for this move at a disturbingly high frequency (more so than the Mach Tornado once they discover how badly the cool-down frames on the move will get them murdered), so once you establish a read for when and where MKs execute this move, it will be game over.

I will say that I have had difficulty properly punishing Mach Tornado in the past (MKs unfamiliar with being punished severely by cool-down lag won't even try to retreat the tornado after it fails to shield-stab), but that mostly occurred when I wasn't being mindful of my position and would actually glide-toss forward past Meta Knight. Even at that though, followup options do exist in the form of standing still and just throwing the banana, D-tilting, jab-canceling into a D-tilt, or grabs/dash grabs.

But as I mentioned, the single banana lock is a welcome expansion to those options.

Also, the edge spike is sick. I'm hoping this will be the solution to my Pit edge camping problems.

While we're on the subject, I came up with a semi-unique setup similar to this; it involves banana-locking an opponent towards the end of the stage, but right before you chuck the last banana to send them over the corner into an edge-hug, you follow their DI backward with a dash, and then Z-drop a banana on top of them to send them over the edge and follow up with a D-air spike. Not as flashy, but it's a great deal easier to execute. =)

But like I said: mo' options, mo betta.

KRDsonic is going to upload it. You could also upload it if you don't feel like waiting for him lol.

I'm in Dallas 'til tomorrow and I don't have access to my recording resources. I'll do it if KRDS hasn't done it by tomorrow night, but hopefully he beats me to it. =)

 

[_Phloat_]

I don't really think we can answer that yet, phloat, this tech has only been out two days.

Impatience, the key to discovery.

Anyways, good work on this guys, I almost want to pick up diddy because of stuff like this.

 

[Count]

Impatience, the key to discovery.

Anyways, good work on this guys, I almost want to pick up diddy because of stuff like this.

Yeah, I didn't mean to sound rude or whatever. All of us are practicing this a bunch I'm pretty sure. NL hasn't made a peep so you know hes somewhere trying to expand on this. I'm afraid it may take me longer than a lot of the diddy mainers cause my fingers are so uncoordinated.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Man, it feels like the night before christmas waiting for Hylians video upload.

 

[ADHD]

When you say it is 25% on MK, is this human error or is it just the way things are?

Could a person that learned this well enough spike MK every time?

That eye is freaking me out. Anyway its just the way things are, it's totally random because there are characters with shorter trip animations that are easier to have the spike connect than pikachu's and meta. No sense whatsoever.

It's not like this thing is gamebreaking, it's just something that needs to be explored more before we can say things about it and come up with setups/uses. Right now the hardest part is figuring out follow-ups and ways to do it with the most accuracy. Eventually once we get really good at this it is possible that we can ping pong everyone back and forth the stage with ease before we end it but we really don't know everything about trips and this.

 

[Le_THieN]

Man, it feels like the night before christmas waiting for Hylians video upload.

The funny thing here is that I still really questioned whether or not the repeated execution of this technique was truly inescapable, even after Hylian reaffirmed that it was (he apparently had his roommate DIing the whole time). It wasn't until fifteen minutes later after initially watching the video that I yanked my brother into the game room to retest it with Hylian's stricter and more regimented timing that I was able to get it to finally get the technique to lock. You have to consider that if you can get this to work after doing it just twice, you can eventually develop the kinesthetic rhythm to due it multiple times.

Right now, my record is eight times, but I more consistently do it around three or four times. The theory behind the technique is fundamentally simple, but it demands a high degree of spacing awareness and muscular discipline. It's scary how remiscent it is of practicing Melee Falco's advanced movements. =)

 

[Dojo]

Falco melee movements?

Ooo I'm trying this. :D