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Inferno's Decarde, The Bowser Video & Critique Thread

Zigsta

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I promise I will get to it tonight. Just got back from work and need to eat and run to Office Depot to print my screenplay. I'll critique afterwards.
 

_Dice

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I promise I will get to it tonight. Just got back from work and need to eat and run to Office Depot to print my screenplay. I'll critique afterwards.
Zig i'm also in script/screenplay writing so if you need proofing or somesuch i don't mind helping you out :D
 

Zigsta

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P1, this match was really hard for me to critique since it's Wi-Fi and against Diddy, which is kinda a janky MU, but I'd like to point out a few notes:

-Around the 5:30 mark, Diddy airdodged your upair, but you didn't follow with another aerial. Don't forget that's a frame trap! If they AD the upair, you can follow with bair, fair, or nair. It's really handy.

-Early on you approached with fairs a lot. I'd mix in a bit more Klaws if you're gonna short hop them since Klaw has less lag.

-Good fsmashes, man! I can tell you main Diddy--you played very well with bananas in this match.

-I forget the time off the top of my head, but there was a time during the rock transformation while you were on the left side of the middle platformed area and you uptiled, missed, and uptitled again. A dtilt would've hit Diddy instead. This might've been due to the lag, though.


That's all I had after just one viewing. If you can get more matches, I'll gladly help out.
 

Player-1

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Thanks zig, yeah I know it's not much but I just wanted to get some critique before I went to a tournament, I'll probably get some more today since the wiis will have force replay
 

Player-1

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I won 2 sets in my pools and won multiple games, I think I won one in every set I played, but if I lost then I just went Diddy so I could get first seed and I didn't lose any sets. Probably won't be going diddy in bracket though
 

Player-1

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It's probably going to be a while before those vids are up. The TO decided to force replay every tournament wii and was going to upload every single video in the whole tournament that was played and is going to upload bracket matches first.
 

B!squick

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^ Videos 2-4 don't work.

As far as the ones I did see, I find it funny how you actually landed a follow up to a grab release on the DK, and then in the Ike vid, you decided in the second game that grab releases were stupid, despite having got a kill off one in the first game. :S

Also, the people you played were kinda nooby.
 

Player-1

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I fixed it, and yeah they were nooby, that's why I was GRing the DK because I knew they probably didn't know about the GT stuff. Vids 2-4 are all of me losing with Bowser against less nooby ppl btw :3
 

Zigsta

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P1, watched your set vs. DK.

Overall, I'd like to see less fair and more tilts. Bowser's jump is a bit on the slow side and is exploitable by better characters, like MK. You should mix up your approaches a bit more.

Usually when I Klaw someone at low percents, I go for a followup fair. Every now and then, they'll either airdodge the fair or DI it so fair won't reach--against these players I'll try to land an upair. A followup aerial Klaw sometimes works, too, but I find people airdodge the followup Klaw more often than the followup fair. And no one ever airdodges followup upair.
 

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there's also a third situation where people will DI down and away so nothing will reach at all.

then i just sit down and wait again.

/hermit
 

Zigsta

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How should I approach with tilts mostly? Airdodge>tilt, dash>tilt?

:phone:
Did I say "mostly"? If I did, I shouldn't have. XD

I'm talking about spacing ftilts, mostly. I often space jab and jabcancel into something else. When spacing with ftilt, you just need to be wary to not use it too much because it's laggy enough to be punished on block.

Empty shorthops help to mix things up, too, especially if your opponent thinks you favor aerial approaches over grounded ones. Empty SHs to tilts work quite well. I really like empty SHing to dtilt when I want a kill--I think I do it to Nike in our most recent MM, game 1, off the top of my head. Dtilt's got the most lag of Bowser's tilts, so I try to make it much more unpredictable than ftilt or jab.

:phone:
 

Zigsta

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Against Marth, you were definitely too aerial. Marth's gonna fair you a lot in this MU, so you should stay grounded, at least in the beginning. I typically start grounded against Marths (upangled ftilt, mostly) and see if they change their tactics at all. Usually they'll mix things up a bit, so then I'll be a bit more aerial.

Watch your use of SH fair--it has enough lag on the ground to be punished.

All your dairs against Marth were poorly planned. You rarely, if ever, use dair from really high up, as it's easy for your enemy to SDI out of it and punish you. Dair's best as a mixup for shieldpoking. People don't expect dair too often from Bowser, and ftilt/fsmash can be used as a followup since dair pushes them back a tad.

Overall you started off too aggressive, got in a hole, and then played Marth's game for the duration of the match. Just settle down and outspace him--Bowser certainly has the tools.

Against Diddy, too aerial again.

You PS'd a bit before the 2:00 mark and didn't Fortress. Both of you just stood there.

Basically this is my theory on Klaw vs. fair as a means of aerial spacing: I prefer Klawing over fairing when no one's near me because a good player will think "Dang, this Bowser's throwing out Klaw a lot. I better shield less." THAT's when I start using fair more. Your mentality seems to be the opposite.


Against Kirby, good call Klawing his Stone first time around. Second time, though, he jumped out of it because he predicted Klaw--if you spot Kirbies doing this (which most do anyways so they don't get punished), just run in and upsmash Kirby. Works really well.

Random tidbit: If Kirby's dash attacking you a lot, just pivot grab him.

Why do you like to SH>airdodge as Bowser when no one's near you? I don't like showing my opponent SH>airdodge at all--I don't want them to recognize the timing behind it or even to think I'll attempt that at all as Bowser. You SH>airdodged a handful of times when Kirby was offstage only to SH>airdodge>uptilt when Kirby returned onstage. He predicted that a mile away because you were being flashy. Bowser's bad. Really bad. It helps us because people underestimate the character. Keep your trump cards hidden so your opponent doesn't expect it.

Around the 1:20ish mark or so, you power shielded Kirby's attack and didn't capitalize on it. A PS in close quarters like that is a free Fortress OoS.

You need to decide how you want to incorporate Koopa Hopping into your Bowser game. You like doing run>jump back>aerial Klaw (which I do a lot and dig), but I rarely see you perform multiple Koopa Hops in a row. It's really hard for me to recommend how much you should Koopa Hop, as all of us use it really differently. It would definitely help give you more mixups when approaching/camping, though. Right now your Klaw game is very basic. Koopa Hopping more also (moreso against characters without a projectile) makes your opponent respect your space a bit more.

You were way too aggressive against Kirby on RC. When I play on RC, I almost NEVER approach on the middle part of the stage, especially if I'm up against a character with multiple jumps like MK, Kirby, etc. You started off in a hole and seemed to want to bring the match back quick. Just remind yourself it's Kirby. He's ridiculously light compared to you and is rather straightforward. Don't pay attention to the percent difference. Let him come to you more, especially in that middle part.


I hope this helps! If you need anything clarified or have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

On a side note, I saved a ton of matches from the tourney I was at like 3 weeks ago, but Mike hasn't had his Wii and his laptop together since then, so it's taking a while to upload. I'm also still trying to get my MM with Razer up from like 3 months ago. XD

I'll have a good bit of videos recorded at Genesis 2. I've got a lot of MMs lined up--I'll get as many of those saved as I can along with pools stuff. Biggest problem for me will be if my arms can hold up for that long. I've been stretching and conditioning them every day, so we'll see.
 

Player-1

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Yeah dair I like a lot because a lot of people don't know about it getting an extra hit when he lands with it and they shield grab it wrong, but I'll be more careful using it. The last bid I got critiqued vs that wifi diddy I wad told to use more lose and be more aerial since Diddy wrecks on the ground and now I'm being told the opposite =/

:phone:
 

Zigsta

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Yeah, you were too aerial in the second Diddy match. Just find a balance.

Off the top of my head, this Diddy seemed to come at you in the air a lot more than the Wi-Fi Diddy.
 

Kirk

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Zigsta

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Good to see ya, Kirk! DLA told me you've been going almost all Bowser lately.

I'll get to your videos sometime this week.

:phone:
 

Flayl

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Kirk I'm really impressed with how you played game 2 against the Wario, specially how you made NAir useful! Yeah it would be great if you got the grab release stuff down. I think pivot grab could be put to a better use also but I have difficulty in finding out when exactly should you use it.

I only seem to land pivot grabs when my opponent is on a platform and I know he's going to drop and try to hit me (when I'm not directly underneath), and less consistently against people who are dashing towards me.
 

Zigsta

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Kirk, watch your second jump. Just about every time you got thrown up by DK, you immediately jumped. This doesn't help Bowser at all. Conserve your jump so you can use it closer to the ground. Our blind spot sucks--guard it well.

Be careful of Firebreath while close to DK. He can SDI in and side B you.

I'd personally play a bit more grounded against DK. Klaw beats DK's aerials, yeah, but I don't like playing DK's game (meaning bair). DLA was a lot more aerial than grounded, so I would personally play the opposite.

On a different note, work on mixing up how you Klaw Hop more. You nearly always (if not always) Klaw Hopped three times in place instead of moving back and forth or pivoting Klaw. Again, since you're forcing Bowser to the air when you do this, it's important to not develop habits your opponent can use to exploit your blindspot.

I personally don't like Firebreath against Wario. He can SDI out easily and punish it. Only reason I use it against MK is to bait Tornado.

Try jab > regrab more on Wario. Free upsmashes is a good thing!

Again, this is just personal preference: I'm not a fan of just throwing out fairs when your opponent's not near you. I don't see the point in jumping so much.

Come to think of it, I don't I think I saw any dtilt out of you. One thing I like to do is empty short hop to dtilt. That's probably my favorite dtilt setup.
 

Kirk

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Thanks for the tips guys. Its always good to get outside opinions.

I love to klaw hop, but yeah I do need to learn how to apply it better in a match. Sometimes I just forget all together.

With the Fairs, it's a habit of mine. (I play Ike also, spacing Fairs is the name of the game lol) It helps me keep my spacing and I usually like to keep moving when I can. Just a personal preference I guess.

Dtilt...yeah I've come to see I really need to use it more. I'm to used to relying on ftilt for my ground spacing, Dtilt would be better to mix up, especially for killing.

I've got a few more vids to share, if you guys would care to take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-RRZiK-uMY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZbsWybTDKc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-nP1F1W7XI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyprzfVexIE

These are all vs :marth:, friendlies from a smashfest.

I'm still not reacting quick enough/predicting the release for the grab release > regrab. Still something I need to practice...haven't been using Dtilt barely at all, I keep forgetting. And...I maybe like Fsmash...TOO much? I generally see the reward being at least equal to the risk, but that's just been my experience. I think I still use it a bit too much though...I just like how it scares the **** out of people.

My next tournament is this weekend, I'm thinking about going all Bowser for the first time, not sure yet though. Something I'll need to think about.
 

Cassius.

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I only watched the first game, so I see this:

Don't Jab -> UpB. It's unsafe and doesn't work unless you've conditioned your opponent to spotdodge everytime he/she shields a Jab from you. In that instance you really could just do Jab->Forward Smash lmao.

Do better mixups in that instance such as Jab->Klaw or Jab->Grab (not sure what use it'd be, you have to get the timing down for regrabs and other moves), you do say you know that you need to work on release timing, which is good, but it has to be stressed...it's a good way to get kills for Bowser. Don't let that pass above your head lol. It really only takes like 20 mintues at most probably...just do characters that matter

Also you say you need to klawhop more--You really don't. KlawHOPPING isn't central to Bowser's game. It's the Klaw itself you should be doing more. Klaw hopping is great for mobility and stuff and if you do happen to whiff a klaw you can get away by doing that, but honestly it's not really anything you need to drastically work on. It's good for continuing hit strings if you get a good aerial hit or something I guess.

With Bowser, I opt for using the safer moves as opposed to just throwing out stuff...I personally only use FSmash if I know I can hit, rarely do I use it in a risk/reward fashion. I wouldn't throw around FSmashes if you're around death %s though

I watched game 2...you go a little too far with Bowser with the edgeguarding. Make sure you can make it back because Bowser isn't a god at recovering...lol

It's really nice to see you back/other Bowser videos again. I haven't really had an interest in Brawl as of late.

edit: I see you like FAir, but it looks like you're just attacking air...lol, no one is even close to you and you just throw FAir out. I know like you said it's an Ike thing, but Bowser's FAir isn't as large and you won't get anything out of it if no one is near you. Just sit tight sometimes.
 

Zigsta

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I like jab > up B if my opponent has a habit of rolling into me after the first jab. It's super rare, though.

:phone:
 

Phiddlesticks

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i prefer to jab -> dsmash

especially when i **** up and am trying to do jab -> dtilt but accidentally dsmash and my opponent rolls into it anyways (makes me look like a genius yeaaah)
 

Cassius.

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I like jab > up B if my opponent has a habit of rolling into me after the first jab. It's super rare, though.

:phone:
The point being, like I said before, it's not safe, nor will you get away with it on a consistent basis.

Do it if you've conditioned your opponent, or they have the habit, but otherwise there are better moves.
 

Cassius.

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Well, I watched the ZSS match and I have to say you landed about 5 grabs and just threw her instead of capitalizing on the grab release opportunities. You only started to do it at the end of the match.

And you used UpB a few times as a panic button of sorts...

match up wise, with ZSS all you have to do is walk/run and shield. ZSS can't really do anything because if she whiffs a grab...well, you tell me what happens then. If you PS anything, just PSC into a jab or an FTilt. If ZSS hits your shield, then you know...react. Her shield pressure isn't really top notch imo. Just don't airdodge into her Downsmashes or...just don't airdodge down to the stage too often in general

Also, what's with the random Bowser bombs? lol

Watching the Zelda match now, you seem more comfortable with this lol. Good job dealing with the spotdodges and ****.

Whenever your enemy's on a platform, of any kind, just jump up and klaw them, unless you feel like doing some funky shield pushing ****.

Also, you should use klaw more to read airdodges...most of the time he would just air dodge into or past you and you'd just FTilt through. You were doing a good job in the 2nd match with the klaw stuff though.

That's about it, and just be a bit more faster with the jab cancelling, if that's what you were trying to do. I'm not exactly sure. lol
 

Scatz

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Yeah, I don't understand any grab releases because I haven't looked at the information yet. I've just tried to do them by experimenting with simple moves (jab and Ftilt).

The random Bowser bombs was me trolling somewhat. XD My problem during tourneys is I love to try new stuff even it can get me killed. I learn a lot doing stuff that way (sort of how I made my Yoshi better).

I have big problems when it comes to learning higher tiered matchups. I'm fine vs Zelda cause I know she can't punish shield good at all. I panic since I don't know how the matchup should be played, and I fall into my habit of using upB to get out of those situations. I probably just need to sit down and read up.

Yes, I was going for jab mixups. It was one of the main things I was focusing on that day since I think jabs make the mixup potential much easier than most other move sin brawl. It also doesn't help when most of my mains have good jabs (Yoshi, PT, Falco, Mario). XD

I'll work on incorporating better jab mixups and grab releases more. I think I might have to sit down again and think about how I use klaw since I get into bad habits with it.
 

Phiddlesticks

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sauc3 (Samus) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser)
Iliad (Marth) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 1
Iliad (Marth) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 2
Iliad (Marth) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 3
MeekSpeedy (Sheik) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser)
MeekSpeedy (Wolf) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) (warning: this link may or may not work, it says its processing at the time of this post)
MeekSpeedy (Sonic) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 1
MeekSpeedy (Sonic) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 2
MeekSpeedy (Sonic) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 3

friendly sets from a smashfest last weekend where i used bowser, just posting because i have like no videos from anywhere. critique if you want, or dont critique if you dont want, just dont take them too seriously
 

Flayl

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Best if I don't take the Samus match seriously. You really like that pivot fsmash haha

Nice suicide finish against Iliad game 1. Lots of unsafe airdodges and stuff tho

Sweet fsmash on delfino around 1:10, it's a shame it wasn't at kill %s. Opposite-of-sweet bowser bomb and DI at 1:30 haha. 2:20 WHYYYY

game 3 went full ******

I'll watch the rest later
 

Cassius.

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he's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack

for one weekend
 

Vex Kasrani

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I'm the worst Bowser, so it doesn't matter lol.

MrEh's Bowser would be soooo good if he took the game seriously, and also decided to not randomly SD by accident all the time. Chad is super intelligent when he wants to be, then sandbags and makes himself look awful, makes me very sad.
 
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