Inferno's Decarde, The Bowser Video & Critique Thread

[Alien Vision]

Lol. I can't go to tournaments. I know it doesn't make a difference in the long run, but it does make other people online want to play Bowser sometimes.. So.. I am doing something. Lol.

I am very aware of my spot dodging. Don't worry. Thankyou Flayl. Sorry about the inconveniences. Atleast you have an idea how I play now. Muahahaha.

Good game.

@ KingKong Damn.. Lol. Incredible Bowser. I look foward to seeing you in the future. ;D

 

[KingKong_ad]

Against Nvm (diddy) pool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9whi1Zuzik

Against tin man (olimar) pool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpdxb3NRoqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLKpPHKG8so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFZHYV-sqMQ

Against Techiyo (mk) pool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyylEpIMj6c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6sPrZ6VKwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE-HaMRWE1Q


Against Holynightmare (mk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtOptOR2UY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlX5AIeyG-4

 

[Phiddlesticks]

haven't posted videos here in a bit:

DDM (Snake) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 1
DDM (DK) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 2 (dat second stock)
game 3 wasnt uploaded, or maybe we forgot to save the replay

sauc3 (Kirby) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 3
games 1 and 2 werent uploaded; i beat his mk game 1 and then he beat me with kirby games 2 and 3 on smashville/bf

cMeDu (MK) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 3
this was a funny game imo, i dont remember much from the set but i remember he won game 1, and game 2 i won from a clutch upair in a 1 stock sudden death (missed the jump out of the bowsercide)

Patches (G&W) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 1
Patches (G&W) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 2

Tin Man (Olimar) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 1
gotta love that platform klawhopping for no reason game 2 i tried out my pkmn trainer and lost

Pikapika! (Pikachu) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 1
Pikapika! (Pikachu) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 3
where is game 2, you ask? nobody knows

oh yeah, i also have a few friendly sets from sauc3's basement, i guess ill link to those even just for the commentary, ill edit it that in in a sec

Friendlies
sauc3 (MK) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 1 & 2
sauc3 (MK) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 3
"serious" set

Iliad (Marth) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 1
"serious" game, but we finished the set off with random dumb characters

sauc3 (G&W) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 1 (the best)
sauc3 (ROB) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 2
sauc3 (Luigi) vs Phiddlesticks (Bowser) 3
i dont think these were serious at all but game 1 was awesome

 

[Zigsta]

KK, saw all your vids. I'll handwrite my commentary and get someone to type them up hopefully soon.

Phiddle, give me a few weeks.

 

[Zigsta]

I lied. Saw Phiddle's Olimar match and had to comment.

You're jumping WAY too much in this MU. Jump>Klaw gets predictable, and Olimar punishes it easily. I rarely Klawhop in front of Olimar when he's camping because I don't want him to get used to the timing of it.

Jab beats Pikmin spam. I jab the living crap out of Olimar.

Never waste your double jump high above Olimar. Early on you didn't ground yourself fast enough, and you were double jumping and fullhopping around.

When I play Olimar, I'm always cautious about exposing my blindside. For that reason I don't fullhop too often--I don't want to leave Olimar time to juggle me.

But yeah, jab jab jab.

Just watched the DK match. Again, don't use your DJ so high--once you DJ'd above the highest platform. Bowser needs his DJ to change up his landing.

A few times in both matches, you seemed to have trouble getting down from platforms. Don't forget you can Klawdrop or ledge cancelled Klaw (on the sides) to drop down quickly and be able to instantly go into an attack.

 

[Player-1]

If you're not suppose to jump in the MU that often then how do you approach him? Olimar has one of the best defenses against ground approaching?

 

[Zigsta]

KK, I'll start with your games vs. Holy first.

You should mix up grounded approaches and aerial approaches a bit more. You had a habit of using aerial approaches a bit too often. Our jump's pretty predictable for MK. Infinity actually gave me the same advice recently, and I've been paying much more attention to it now.

How good are you at ledgehopped airdodge>Fortress? It's a solid mixup when trying to get up from the ledge vs. MK. I only ask because I need to practice it more, but the few times I've pulled it on players, they're honestly surprised, haha.

Sidenote to everyone: Did you know by inputting the opposite direction before hyphen upsmashing, we can change directions? Someone showed me the other day. It needs testing, but a turnaround hyphen upsmash might be easier to follow up with a pivot grab than following up a normal hyphen upsmash with a grab, like you tried vs. Holy game 1, but he airdodged.

Gotta take a break. XD More later!

@P1--If you don't approach Olimar, he's gonna side B camp you. Learn to time jabs so you kill his Pikmin, and eventually he'll approach you or try something different. When you get close, Jab's again your good friend. Olimar hates getting shield pressured from the side. SH Klaw would be safe against Pikmin camping if it weren't for Purples. If Olimar doesn't have any Purples in sight though, Klaw's great.

 

[Flayl]

Just gonna say I have to disagree with you about Olimar. The staggering amount of videos is kinda putting me off though (funny since a year ago I would have loved it)

 

[Zigsta]

What do you recommend instead against Olimar, Flayl? I'm assuming you disagree with the jab bit.

All I know is I've had a lot of success with jab, and Texas Olimars hate it, haha.

 

[Player-1]

I really don't see how jab would work out against smart olimar players. I mean it would work well for impatient olimar players, but eventually you WILL get hit by the pikmin and be forced to approach if you lose the % lead.

 

[Zigsta]

I'm probably just not explaining myself well.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

What else would you use then? Jab is Bowser's fastest move and safest. Up B OoS could work but I feel if you were to use it too much then you would get grabbed during the cooldown.

 

[Player-1]

you wouldn't use anything to camp olimar IMO, you have to approach in the MU, I mean if he has no red pikmin you could use fire breath for a bit, but I really don't see bowser playing campy in this MU

 

[Z'zgashi]

I'm not really one to give MU information, especially for Bowser, but I do know that Olimar is a ***** to approach against. I tend to play campy against him just due to the fact that approaching is usually a terrible idea. I dunno if Bowser has the tools to approach or not (I doubt it though), but in my opinion, Zig sounds like he knows what he's talking about here.

 

[Player-1]

but all olimar has to do is sit there and throw pikmin and he gets damage, bowser doesnt have a projectile to do that, if bowser gets a good lead then yes, I think he could camp with jabs/up-b/flamethrower because it will take a while for the pikmin to get past that wall, but otherwise I don't think camping can work

 

[Sky Pirate]

There is almost no reason for us to approach. Even if you have a lead, there are eight minutes in a match.
I'd approach Bowser for a better stage position or if I'm forced to by the time limit, though.
Zigsta is right about Jab being really annoying, though. If he can get up-close, Jab is a nightmare.
Did he mean to say that you should time jabs to kill his pikmin while approaching and we'll have to do something else? I know he's tried it before and I had to space a pivot grab to get him away.

That mid-range area is like a barrier for Bowser to get through. Pivot grab is so cruel. ^^;

 

[Flayl]

Acid Vs Leon (Marth) [04/23/2011]

Good example on how to abuse Marth's landing and greediness and why using different options when on the ledge is important (or else stuff like this happens)

I'll get around to watch KingKong and Phiddlesticks's vids today

 

[B!squick]

Ha. I liked the part where Acid started charging FSmash and Leon went, "ah ha!" and countered but Acid just said, "ah ha HA!" and just fully charged it and hit him regardless. For the win.

Aside from that and some other moments, I was yelling, "you EEE-diot!" half the time at the screen. Mostly every time he recovered low and Marth said, "lol" and took a stock.

 

[Flayl]

The trick is to recover low enough so it isn't easy to hit you but high enough that if the opponent hugs the ledge you can still make it back on stage. It's sorta hard.

On KingKong Vs Nvm:
Nicely played, banana throw out of release is funny. I think our best option when we hit Diddy with a banana throw from above a platform is to drop through it and NAir. It looks like Diddy has a problem killing us if we sit in our shield a lot, though maybe there's a setup Diddy has that I'm not seeing. Wow Diddy's FTilt is really weak at low %s, we can probably Ftilt him back. Nicely done on waiting out the airdodge for the last hit.

On KingKong Vs Tin Man:
Game 1 is lol. Nice klaw punishes. Don't airdodge after Olimar's Dthrow at low %s, try jumping away?

Game 2
Don't ignore white pikmin, they do like 30%. UAir them off if they're on your face (and Olimar is on the other side of the stage) or NAir them if they're just about anywhere else. This game shows how hard ti can be to approach Olimar, even though you did space your hops a bit poorly.

Game 3
Wow this music is kind of obnoxious. Don't bother spacing FTilt, it's never safe. Use it when you know it'll hit for sure and that's it. I'm amazed the klaw at 1:24 didn't kill him. Bad luck about the jab making him go up the ramp at 1:30. Would DTilt have killed him? Should've used more jab on the boat at the last part.

On KingKong Vs Techiyo:
Game 1
PS1 is a bad starter against MK IMO, you can get earlier klaw kills but recovering is harder and it gives lots of spaces to pressure you from below. Nice klaw through the tornado. Your opponent would do better if he spaced more instead of relying on MK's low cooldown.

Game 2
MK ditto don't care. Ok, not entirely true. Your MK needs work, stop dashing so much. You can DAir other MK's tornado btw.

Game 3
Don't ever try to dash grab a MK after a whiffed FAir, it'll almost never work and the room for punishment in enormous. Yeah this matchup sucks.

 

[Cassius.]

acid is a dope *** bowser

he reminds me of me...really lol

except his usage of utilt makes me skeet and his shad approaches are a bit predictable, but the majority of his upbs are on point.

i like it!

 

[Zigsta]

It's a good thing Leon never realized pivot grab beats Bowser's airdodge.

 

[Flayl]

[collapse="Replay critique"]The trick is to recover low enough so it isn't easy to hit you but high enough that if the opponent hugs the ledge you can still make it back on stage. It's sorta hard.

On KingKong Vs Nvm:
Nicely played, banana throw out of release is funny. I think our best option when we hit Diddy with a banana throw from above a platform is to drop through it and NAir. It looks like Diddy has a problem killing us if we sit in our shield a lot, though maybe there's a setup Diddy has that I'm not seeing. Wow Diddy's FTilt is really weak at low %s, we can probably Ftilt him back. Nicely done on waiting out the airdodge for the last hit.

On KingKong Vs Tin Man:
Game 1 is lol. Nice klaw punishes. Don't airdodge after Olimar's Dthrow at low %s, try jumping away?

Game 2
Don't ignore white pikmin, they do like 30%. UAir them off if they're on your face (and Olimar is on the other side of the stage) or NAir them if they're just about anywhere else. This game shows how hard ti can be to approach Olimar, even though you did space your hops a bit poorly.

Game 3
Wow this music is kind of obnoxious. Don't bother spacing FTilt, it's never safe. Use it when you know it'll hit for sure and that's it. I'm amazed the klaw at 1:24 didn't kill him. Bad luck about the jab making him go up the ramp at 1:30. Would DTilt have killed him? Should've used more jab on the boat at the last part.

On KingKong Vs Techiyo:
Game 1
PS1 is a bad starter against MK IMO, you can get earlier klaw kills but recovering is harder and it gives lots of spaces to pressure you from below. Nice klaw through the tornado. Your opponent would do better if he spaced more instead of relying on MK's low cooldown.

Game 2
MK ditto don't care. Ok, not entirely true. Your MK needs work, stop dashing so much. You can DAir other MK's tornado btw.

Game 3
Don't ever try to dash grab a MK after a whiffed FAir, it'll almost never work and the room for punishment in enormous. Yeah this matchup sucks.[/collapse]

On KingKong Vs HolyNightmare:
Game 1
Rolling occasionally against an approaching tornado might have been a neat idea if Bowser's roll wasn't so bad. Lucario or MK might be able to do it if they're not too predictable, dunno about the rest of the cast. FTilt doesn't beat tornado, not reliably anyway. Your tornado punishment game is on point though, good stuff. DAir is terrible against MK for so many reasons, I don't understand why you use it. Nice USmash punish for the shuttle loop, I'll have to remember that. Good SDI at 2:10. Zigsta should really see this game and see why most of the options against tornado he listed don't work. I think Bowser's best option at situations like 2:50 would be to ledge hop klaw and buffer fortress/jab, ledge attack is too slow. Honestly Holy's edgeguarding has been pretty subpar, was he sandbagging? There were a few tornados like at 4:59 where Fortress OoS would have hit.

Game 2
Ugh I hate Pictochat. Don't shield grab glide attack, klaw it. Too bad about the SD. 3:11 was funny. Not much I can say that hasn't already been said for game 1.


A little note: I know KK probably couldn't care less about my critique but honestly the best way I find to learn from other people is to watch their vids and write comments. Hopefully this will help someone else too.

 

[IceArrow]

Critique please

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJS42Dq-j08

 

[Dumbfire]

Nice match! Remember that Bowsers spotdogde is very bad, you should barely use it. Also, work on that SDI, you should easily be able to SDI out of Halberds laser.

 

[Zigsta]

Critique please

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJS42Dq-j08

You spotdodged WAY too much.

Again, the laser is stupid easy to SDI out of. Mash away.

Use Fortress OoS more.

Don't use SH Fortress when someone's on a platform above you. Uptilt and upsmash work just fine, with the occasional Klaw or nair.

You were jumping way too often, too. Bowser's ground game isn't bad. Mix it up more with jab and ftilt.

 

[Z'zgashi]

So guys, i got some matches saved at an overnight smashfest last night, and imma upload them later tonight/tomorrow morning, and would love some critique. Remember, I generally new to Bowser, so dont be too rough lol.

 

[Player-1]

I'll have 1 vid up within the hour and I'll have more coming after today

 

[Z'zgashi]

I remember in one vid i get 0 deathed on my second stock and then either come back and win or only barely lose lol

 

[Player-1]

yeah I <3 being able to live 200% at least once every game I play =p

 

[Z'zgashi]

I also SD'd with down b on accident. Twice. :D

I need to get used to the spacing for the down b to ledge grab thing lol. The best part was taking a Toon Link Usmash at 164%ish and surviving then watching his irl reaction and me telling him im just too pro at DI to die from ****ty moves like that. :D

 

[Player-1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ0Xy7P5ipw

this was just wifi, but it's all I have right now so I'd like some critique. I'll have some offline matches up within the next 2 days or so

 

[Z'zgashi]

Here's my first set, I also have two games against a Toon Link that'll be soon as well :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkrFLG9ILKI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVkVWMIdQQs&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_UVgBUvIu0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jehm8LeiTg

 

[Phiddlesticks]

im 3 seconds into the first video and i need to ask WHY DID YOU GO TO YOSHIS ISLAND

 

[Z'zgashi]

We chose random.

 

[Dumbfire]

Bowser spotdogde is bad. Don't use it that much. In fact, barely use it all. Also, you missed a lot of Fsmashes. Bowsers Fsmash can be very good, but missing it is also a very bad thing. Try applicating it a little more careful.
Almost all of the Sonic's approaches were with his Side B, starting next to the edge of the stage. While you did get better at punishing it after your first 2 or so stocks, try using Arial Side B more there. It has good range and you can klawhop to platforms. Try to be less agressive too. It's Sonic and you are Bowser, he can easily pop you up in the air and Bowser is easily juggled.

 

[Zigsta]

im 3 seconds into the first video and i need to ask WHY DID YOU GO TO YOSHIS ISLAND

That's a good stage for us, Phiddles!

 

[Player-3]

That's a good stage for us, Phiddles!

not agaisnt sonic

 

[Player-1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ0Xy7P5ipw

this was just wifi, but it's all I have right now so I'd like some critique. I'll have some offline matches up within the next 2 days or so

10 quotes.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Bowser spotdogde is bad. Don't use it that much. In fact, barely use it all. Also, you missed a lot of Fsmashes. Bowsers Fsmash can be very good, but missing it is also a very bad thing. Try applicating it a little more careful.
Almost all of the Sonic's approaches were with his Side B, starting next to the edge of the stage. While you did get better at punishing it after your first 2 or so stocks, try using Arial Side B more there. It has good range and you can klawhop to platforms. Try to be less agressive too. It's Sonic and you are Bowser, he can easily pop you up in the air and Bowser is easily juggled.

I will admit, Im a little trigger happy when it comes to spot dodges, probably due to the fact that I play yoshi.

And thanks, I'll try and improve

 

[_Dice]

Also when you see sonic spinshot (moving very fast horizontally out of a spindash but in a jump animation) he has no second jump anymore and flies a set trajectory, so punish that, hit him up into the air and it's his turn to be juggled, eventually he will have to attempt a down air to get down quick enough, and that is very punishable. OR since sonic loses alot of his horizontal recovery ability when his second jump is gone, knock him off stage, his only real recovery at that point is snake style, from above, letting you bait an air dodge and up air for the kill at low percents.

<--- only knows this due to being sonic main previously.