Inactivity: Jigglypuff's Anime Club

[Noobicidal]

But I do think she sucks. I even have a two year-old social group that expresses that.

 

[Z'zgashi]

More winnable MUs >>>>>> MK.

Wait, Jiggs has winnable MUs?!

 

[Mr. game and watch]

MK!

 

[Jigglymaster]

Uhhh... no... the difficulty should increase as now you have to know even more MUs instead of just MK.

I don't understand how the opponent having less options is a disadvantage for us.


Before, our opponent had 36 (don't know if this is the correct number) character choices, now they have 35.

Same goes for us, but we don't use Metaknight so it doesn't effect us.

Metaknight was already a bad matchup for us. If it was a good matchup then it would've been not as good.


So lets say you win round 1 against a noob player, and in round 2 you fight a decent Marth who won against a good player who originally used Metaknight but lossed due to having a bad secondary. Since the Metaknight would've destroyed the Marth if he could've used Metaknight, round 2 becomes not as hard as it could've been.

or

Without M2K and other Metaknight players knocking all the good players into losers, those good players will be knocking average players into the losers instead. Making it easier. M2k quitting alone will make tournaments easier for everyone because thats one less spot that can take first place. If you were going to originally get 4th place you'll get 3rd place now because of the Metaknight ban.

See what I'm saying now?

 

[Noobicidal]

Wait, Jiggs has winnable MUs?!

We beat Ganon, somewhat.

 

[Blissard]

Z'zgashi's point wasn't implying that MK wasn't a bad MU.
It was more that MK's usually take up like, 50% of tournament attendance.

With the absence of MK, we now encounter more MUs (some that we're not used to) rather than lots of MK. And while we don't know whether these new characters will be harder or easier than MK, we're definitely not used to facing them in tourney yet.

 

[Mike B]

But I do think she sucks. I even have a two year-old social group that expresses that.

But surely it must mean that you are bad at Jiggly, is my point*



Totally satirizing the common response to MK naysayers, btw...

 

[Maniclysane]

I think this MK ban is kind of a joke; a drastic change this far into Brawls lifecycle is a terrible move.

Also - Veril is back?

 

[Blissard]

It's funny how everyone's like "All the newcomers are gonna use IC's and etc etc etc now!"

And I'm like "Wait, there are newcomers? Brawl is ****ing dead."

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

^^
Basically.
Haha


Veril's been lurkin' here for a while. Postin' every once in a while.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Z'zgashi's point wasn't implying that MK wasn't a bad MU.
It was more that MK's usually take up like, 50% of tournament attendance.

With the absence of MK, we now encounter more MUs (some that we're not used to) rather than lots of MK. And while we don't know whether these new characters will be harder or easier than MK, we're definitely not used to facing them in tourney yet.

^ This.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Z'zgashi's point wasn't implying that MK wasn't a bad MU.
It was more that MK's usually take up like, 50% of tournament attendance.

With the absence of MK, we now encounter more MUs (some that we're not used to) rather than lots of MK. And while we don't know whether these new characters will be harder or easier than MK, we're definitely not used to facing them in tourney yet.

Even so, the players will be overall easier to fight. All Metaknight players are in a sense getting nerfed. Tournament matches will overall be easier.

There won't be a rise in low tiers so we're still not going to be playing matchups we aren't used it.

Not to mention knowing the matchup is totally irrevalent to how hard the tournament matches will be. You can know the Metaknight matchup perfectly with Jigglypuff but you'll still lose to a good metaknight. There are other top tier characters like Diddy Kong that Jigglypuff has a better chance at winning against and hardly any characters that Jiggs has a worse matchup against than the Metaknight matchup.

Tournaments should be easier for Jigglypuff as a character and partially as a player due to the fact that there will be less good players (MKs who quit) and MK mains who are now using a secondary that they are not as familiar with. Basically the skillcap of this game has dropped, you don't need to be as good to do good now.

An example of this is Cot4, I got the highest placing I ever got at a National 17th place (I used Diddy not Jiggs), and I'm thinking I got that high because I didn't have to fight a single Metaknight.

We don't get the best benefit (excluding me since I also play Diddy and get a big benefit from this), but I'd say you have a much better chance of doing well in a MK ban tournament over a non MK banned tournament.

 

[Z'zgashi]

We don't get the best benefit (excluding me since I also play Diddy and get a big benefit from this), but I'd say you have a much better chance of doing well in a MK ban tournament over a non MK banned tournament.

The thing is, every character benefits from MK being gone, and almost every character in the game benefits even more than jiggs. If someone is trying to solo Jiggs in tournament, dont expect to do any better than before because you're going to keep hitting MUs that are still ridiculous for Jiggs like Diddy, Snake, Falco, Marth, etc.

The only characters that got a HUGE buff from this change are Toon Link, Pit, and Peach, as they all only have maybe 1 char that counters them now (Toon Link now has nothing harder than a -1, Pit has one -2 and four -1s, Peach has one -2 and 5 -1s).

So while in theory, this at first sounds good for Puff, but it really doesnt do much at all as you're still going to hit MUs which have a difficulty level on par or close to MK.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Jigglymaster is Twilight.
Z'z is Fluttershy

That just happenned.

 

[Brickbox]

Oh dang
This just got serious

 

[Z'zgashi]

Jigglymaster is Twilight.
Z'z is Fluttershy

That just happenned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICEIRk01rnc&feature=channel_video_title

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICEIRk01rnc&feature=channel_video_title

 

[Z'zgashi]

If you liked that, then you'll LOVE this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn0Q2XlXRs0&feature=feedu

 

[Kaptain]

New jiggs discovery. The chance on you opponet tripping on you down air can be slightly manipulated. If your watching and ready for it to punish into rest, the chances are greatly reduced. However, if you happen to hit and retreat with it, the chances go up. Just a little something I discovered.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Is that just like a Murphys Law thing or have you expierimented with it retreating?

 

[Jigglymaster]

The thing is, every character benefits from MK being gone, and almost every character in the game benefits even more than jiggs. If someone is trying to solo Jiggs in tournament, dont expect to do any better than before because you're going to keep hitting MUs that are still ridiculous for Jiggs like Diddy, Snake, Falco, Marth, etc.

The only characters that got a HUGE buff from this change are Toon Link, Pit, and Peach, as they all only have maybe 1 char that counters them now (Toon Link now has nothing harder than a -1, Pit has one -2 and four -1s, Peach has one -2 and 5 -1s).

So while in theory, this at first sounds good for Puff, but it really doesnt do much at all as you're still going to hit MUs which have a difficulty level on par or close to MK.

First off, Diddy Kong is not a ridiculous matchup for Jigglypuff, its like 50-50. Do you even know the matchups? Aren't you like a Yoshi player or something?

Metaknight was one of our worst matchups. With a common bad matchup gone it has to be seen as a positive. More chances to get that 50-50 matchup with Diddy.
Would you rather have a constant say 3-7 matchup, or would you rather have matchups ranging between 50-50, 45-55, 40-50, and 30-70?

Second off, less pros, no more metaknights to send all the other good players for us to fight against. I don't understand whats so hard to get about this. If its a 60 man tournament but the top 10 players left because they were metaknight and 10 new players came back because metaknight was gone. You'll have a much better chance of placing higher than before.

Maybe this effect me more than it effects you since I live in NJ where its the Metaknight state, and with all of them gone it will be much easier to place higher.

What I'm saying is that there will be higher placings for Jigglypuff now, even if you say that there are going to be harder matchups which there won't even be.

Also did I ever say that it was a HUGE buff for Jigglypuff? No. But was it a nerf like you said? No.

I'm still saying its a benefit for Jigglypuff. A slight buff at the least.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Mink I don't know why that was nessisary. Thought you were cool.

I am cool.
I didn't say anything mean, nor did i mean it to be offensive, i'm sorry Puffster.

On another note,
I drew this picture last night.
Whatcha guys think.

+3 points for guessing who.

[collapse=Poorly drawn picture]

[/collapse]

 

[Jigglymaster]

I am cool.
I didn't say anything mean, nor did i mean it to be offensive, i'm sorry Puffster.

Ok because just saying, what happened in that video didn't happen here. I wasn't owned like that. And I'd rather not have people get the impression that I was owned either.

On another note,
I drew this picture last night.
Whatcha guys think.

+3 points for guessing who.

[collapse=Poorly drawn picture]

[/collapse]

Whos that Pokemon-ITS PIKACHU!

Its Winry-GOD DAMMIT AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Ok because just saying, what happened in that video didn't happen here. I wasn't owned like that. And I'd rather not have people get the impression that I was owned either.

Oh i meant it more as a Zz being snappy. Not owning you. I agree with you, we get a slight buff. I've actually been using your main points when discussing how we'll benefit from the ban.

Whos that Pokemon-ITS PIKACHU!

Its Winry-GOD DAMMIT AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMtlAqgvtZ4


^ Obviously what you were referring to.
But i wanted everyone else to see it. hahaha

I laughed

 

[Jigglymaster]

Oh i meant it more as a Zz being snappy. Not owning you. I agree with you, we get a slight buff. I've actually been using your main points when discussing how we'll benefit from the ban.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMtlAqgvtZ4


^ Obviously what you were referring to.
But i wanted everyone else to see it. hahaha

I laughed

Ok then nevermind it was just a misunderstanding.

And yes thats what I referenced.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I've rewatched it about 300x in the last few minutes.
Amazing. haha.

 

[Kaptain]

Is that just like a Murphys Law thing or have you expierimented with it retreating?

Totally legit!

Spoiler

Its just Murphy's Law.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Totally legit!

Spoiler

Its just Murphy's Law.

Kk, cause that wouldve been nice to know

 

[Z'zgashi]

First off, Diddy Kong is not a ridiculous matchup for Jigglypuff, its like 50-50. Do you even know the matchups? Aren't you like a Yoshi player or something?

I was under the impression it was a -2 for you, my bad if it isnt.

Metaknight was one of our worst matchups. With a common bad matchup gone it has to be seen as a positive. More chances to get that 50-50 matchup with Diddy.
Would you rather have a constant say 3-7 matchup, or would you rather have matchups ranging between 50-50, 45-55, 40-50, and 30-70?

I would much rather have the same MU always that was -3 than a bunch of -2s everywhere. Wanna know why? You start to get used to the MU. Even if it's balls awful and ridiculously hard, you get a better understanding of how to play the character and do better. It's just like me when I was at Genesis. I played tons of MKs and only lost to Seibrik's the entire time, every other MK I played I beat. I played Lucarios, one of Yoshi's hardest MUs, and didnt lose to a single one. I then later played a Dedede player, a MU I never play, and after losing multiple times, I was able to come back and BARELY win. I know the MK and Lucario MUs, so even though they suck BAD for Yoshi, I could do them as I play them a ton and was used to them, however, I had problems with the even D3 MU because I never play it an am not used to the character.

So yes, imo, as long as MK isnt completely unwinnable, which I know it isnt for you, **** loads of MKs should be easier than the huge diversity of characters you dont know how to play against as well.

Second off, less pros, no more metaknights to send all the other good players for us to fight against. I don't understand whats so hard to get about this. If its a 60 man tournament but the top 10 players left because they were metaknight and 10 new players came back because metaknight was gone. You'll have a much better chance of placing higher than before.

With this logic, you're placing better due to the good players not participating, not due to the lack of MK as a character. Obviously you'll do better when less skilled players are present, I mean, I ***** EVERYTHING at the tournaments at my school. Finals I was pulling off 2 or 3 stocks on the other guy.

Maybe this effect me more than it effects you since I live in NJ where its the Metaknight state, and with all of them gone it will be much easier to place higher.

Im #7 on my PR and 3 people above me main MK. There are multiple other MK mains beneath me. While we arent exactly a 'Meta Knight State', we have our fair share of MK's and I know what good MKs are like.

What I'm saying is that there will be higher placings for Jigglypuff now, even if you say that there are going to be harder matchups which there won't even be.

Sure the MUs wont be harder, but having to adjust your playstyle more dramatically and frequently is a lot more mentally tasking then you may think.

Also did I ever say that it was a HUGE buff for Jigglypuff? No. But was it a nerf like you said? No.

I'm still saying its a benefit for Jigglypuff. A slight buff at the least.

I never said it was a nerf, more that it just buffs most other characters in this game more than her to the point where it really shouldnt feel like much of a buff at all.

 

[Jigglymaster]

With this logic, you're placing better due to the good players not participating, not due to the lack of MK as a character. Obviously you'll do better when less skilled players are present, I mean, I ***** EVERYTHING at the tournaments at my school. Finals I was pulling off 2 or 3 stocks on the other guy.

But the main reason why those good players left was because of Metaknight's banning.

Also learning all the other high tier matchups is not as hard as you think. Infact with Metaknight gone rules as the ledgegrab limit and scourging will be gone and legal (at least I think Scourging is still legal). Which means, Jigglypuff can start planking and scouring effectivly.

People are definatly sleeping on Jigglypuff's Scourging ability and if done correctly she should be able to time out Snake, Diddy, Falco, Marth, IC, Olimar and pretty much every other high tier that can't go under the stage safely. The only real character that could stop Jigglypuff was Metaknight and he was the one preventing Jigglypuff from scourging so much because he was seen so often and he was better at it.

Once people start learning how to plank and scourge with Jigglypuff people will start to see the buff she actually got from this.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

So much salt.

 

[Z'zgashi]

No one is salty, it's called a debate.

 

[Jigglymaster]

And its actually helpful, because its getting me off my butt and talking about the current Jigglypuff metagame which is what Mink wanted me to do while I was in the Jigglypuff panel.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Then by all means, continue.

 

[T-block]

It's kinda like this:

You're up against an opponent in a street fight. Your only weapon is a long strand of spaghetti. Your opponent can choose between a knife, a chain, a pistol, and a revolver.

BUT WAIT

Someone comes in and steals the chain.

Do you think "well, at least he can't use the chain against me"

No, because you're still going to get wrecked by the revolver ._.

EDIT: Disclaimer: I haven't really read the thread

 

[GeneralWoodman]

I need some hot puff baby this evening. I want some hot puff baby tonight. I want some hot puff i got a feelinggg. Gotta land some rollout! Gotta get some re-est tonight!

 

[Kaptain]

I need some hot puff baby this evening. I want some hot puff baby tonight. I want some hot puff i got a feelinggg. Gotta land some rollout! Gotta get some re-est tonight!

This just made my night.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

And its actually helpful, because its getting me off my butt and talking about the current Jigglypuff metagame which is what Mink wanted me to do while I was in the Jigglypuff panel.

I need you

 

[Jigglymaster]

It's kinda like this:

You're up against an opponent in a street fight. Your only weapon is a long strand of spaghetti. Your opponent can choose between a knife, a chain, a pistol, and a revolver.

BUT WAIT

Someone comes in and steals the chain.

Do you think "well, at least he can't use the chain against me"

No, because you're still going to get wrecked by the revolver ._.

EDIT: Disclaimer: I haven't really read the thread

To make that example more accurate, you'd obviously have something better than a spaghetti string, i mean might as well use your fists. But regardless none of the matches are that unwinnable. Also, the chain is obviously not the best option and thus would not be taken out. Make it the Knife, Chain, and pistol, and you take away the Pistol. You're chances became alot better than they were before. I'd definatly pick to fight against a Knife or a Chain over a Pistol because its actually winnable. Especially if they don't even know how to use a Chain or a Knife properly in a fight.

tl:dr
MK /= chain
MK = Pistol
Jigglypuff = Fists
Chain/Kinfe = other characters
Chain/Knife <<<<<<< Pistol
Fists < Chain/Knife
Fists <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Pistol

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Puffster.

Come to the panelist with me.