-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
In Regards To The Lack Of Melee Techniques
- Thread starter The Hypnotist
- Start date
falcasouris
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2007
- Messages
- 9
LavasFiend, so many people have *****ed about the game for AT thats its not just me being a small Indivual about it, since all those people make up a percent of the smash community, it would make sense that nintendo would cater to their needs as well. And im not even that stressed about no WD, but alot of little things have made this game feel less and less likable. And as many people said this isnt ganna be melee 2.0, its a whole new game and so on and so fourth. What im saying is that the whole new game doesnt seem that good. In fact if it was just about AT, id just say to the people to go get Guilty Gear and shut the hell up >>. well w/e, 64 for life .
LostAddict
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2006
- Messages
- 109
Original Poster: kill yourself. Thanks.
LavisFiend
Smash Lord
The numbers of people sharing your opinion don't even make a whole percent, but a decimal of a whole percent.
The number is far too small for Nintendo to take in consideration.
falcasouris
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2007
- Messages
- 9
If they didnt take it into consideration, why did they make a public statment about it. If this small percent doesnt matter, than why bother? and btw, even a decimal number in the amount of sales for a smash game is alot of money, and if alittle bit of effort is put into trying to satisfy us, they will come out ahead of the game.
The Hypnotist
Smash Lord
That's my theory, and it's not a complaint.
The Hypnotist
Smash Lord
When do I bash Nintendo? Seriously, learn how to read.
The Hypnotist
Smash Lord
And that's the way I think it should be, the player who works harder should perform better.
LavisFiend
Smash Lord
What public statement?
falcasouris
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2007
- Messages
- 9
hmm, well i do remember someone telling me nintendo stated about Brawl being more torward the casual gamer, cant bring up and exact referance sorry. as for the official thing i said was stated by nintendo, im wrong, i just reread the article and it was a quote from gimpy not nintendo
http://www.gametap.com/home/read/article/8a25090115d6b7e40115d954fd6e13b0
http://www.gametap.com/home/read/article/8a25090115d6b7e40115d954fd6e13b0
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 10,479
Well, I decided to start a blog to stash all my recurring arguments. I am tired of typing out the same things over and over. So, to anyone who thinks wavedashing is a glitch:
http://roabs.blogspot.com/2007/11/wavedash-is-not-glitch.html
http://roabs.blogspot.com/2007/11/wavedash-is-not-glitch.html
LavisFiend
Smash Lord
Just like I figured...
There is no official source, making it completely groundless.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Gimpy's info is more than enough for me to think that Brawl will be great. It's apparent that the game, as is, has enough stuff in it to be competitive without any added glitches/exploits/unintended crap. So when we do discover them, it will only add to an already sizable amount of depth. We have L-canceling guys, it's the #1 advanced technique that allows most of the crazy combos we do.
And we have Sonic, and that is ****ing awesome XD.
And we have Sonic, and that is ****ing awesome XD.
LavisFiend
Smash Lord
I can not rest happily until I see Megaman grace the site.
i didnt know we took a vote and said we loved them... i mean they were ok we liked them but yknow im not gonna take any of those techniques out to a movie and dinner
war is ghey
is this even about fun anymore... u know like adventure mode fun... like careless actions fun... playing with items fun
Blu-ninja
Smash Journeyman
theres one flaw with this state ment though.
nintendo can tweak a game as good as they want,
but no matter what, we smash vets and gamers will ALWAYS find a new glitch or way to do things.
well get over this, and start a-new.
nintendo can tweak a game as good as they want,
but no matter what, we smash vets and gamers will ALWAYS find a new glitch or way to do things.
well get over this, and start a-new.
HaXer
Smash Cadet
That really 
no... Nintendo can't be so ¤%¤&(. That really S**ks
no... Nintendo can't be so ¤%¤&(. That really S**ks
Eltrotraw
Smash Journeyman
hold on...
SSB64 is balanced?
SSB64 is balanced?
Team Giza
Smash Lord
edit: ---meh, I don't want to mess with the 64 nuts right now---
Mama
Smash Ace
I don't get why people think that the small competitive community matters so much. Its because we don't matter that Nintendo would not be worried about what ever things we do in competitive play. Why waste time phasing out esoteric things? The changes are simply a result of a new engine. And as I've stated numerous times the only thing truly gone is Wavedashing but wavelanding is still very much in. L-canceling is still in. Float canceling is still in. Short hopping, fast falling, dash dancing, mind gaming, shffling, the list goes on. You're basically saying that because something that wasn't that useful in the first place is gone you think Nintendo wants to kill off advanced play. Directional changing with the nuetral B moves wont even be missed for long seeing as how people will adapt regardless. If Sora wanted to eliminate advanced play they would have to first learn everything about it. If they did that they'd also see the views of everyone here and then all of a sudden we'd matter a bit more and it'd be even less likely that they'd try hard to upset the fans. What they're doing is more like a compromise. Slow it down, change the physics and you have a noob friendly game. On the higher level you leave in most mechanics and work on balancing characters. Thats all thats happening. There isn't some magical crusade to crusify all things advanced so please stop fooling yourself.
NES n00b
Smash Master
is this even about fun anymore... u know like improving fun... like testing skill in 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 fun... like the satisfaction of reading your opponent fun
sounds like a hint of work... are you a workaholic?? lol j/k
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
It really isn't that much work, and honestly it's kinda fun for me and many others. ESPECIALLY when you are trying to figure new stuff out.
The thing is that the game has stayed fresh and fun consistently for most competitive players I know, but a lot of the casual players I've run into only play this game once in a blue moon. Considering that competitive players play this game anywhere from once every other week to every day and have done so for years... I could argue as to who has had the most and lasting fun with the game.
The thing to keep in mind is that fun is relative. To assume our way of playing is not as fun as yours is just fundamentaly wrong.
GreatClayMonkey
Smash Lord
This thread should be lack of melee glitches since those are not techniques but glitches. Nintendo dose not think a video game should be non competitive .
Anther
Smash Champion
Def would not be playing smash everyday if the deepness of all the options and situations advanced play bring into the equation didn't exist. I appreciate it wholeheartedly. I am saddened that certain mechanics have been tweaked to make certain basic options and tactics... just plain gone. Hurts a lil that you can't jump and turn around to shoot a projectile...
But everyone's optimistic that the 1v1 game'll still be great, so why not think the same =].
It's rare to have a game like melee that you can play in a competitive environment, and have it remain as diverse and fresh as it lends itself to be.
But everyone's optimistic that the 1v1 game'll still be great, so why not think the same =].
It's rare to have a game like melee that you can play in a competitive environment, and have it remain as diverse and fresh as it lends itself to be.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
I'm confused by what you were trying to say in it's entirety. I'm assuming you are saying that all advanced techniques are glitches, which is not the case. Time and time again we try to reiterate that most of the stuff we do was either intentional or simply and unintended side effect of the basic physics of the game. I for one don't care for semantics of such things, cause even if they were "true" glitches, these things are not bad nor should they be considered as such. Redefining something doesn't change what it is, and the AT from melee are a large part of what made the competitive smash scene popular and as extensive.
Sliq
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Messages
- 4,871
Foxtorres
Smash Cadet
.... I see you everywhere on these boards about this, dude, you need to shut up and buy brawl when it comes out, THEN you can do all yer *****en and moaning after youve actually played the game
Pluvia's other account
Smash Master
I was pointing out the reasons why Wavedashing was most likely not to make it from the very begining. I just got slagged off.
How Ironic.
Anyway, topics like these are just prone to flame wars, It's inevitable..
How Ironic.
Anyway, topics like these are just prone to flame wars, It's inevitable..
Granted, I am new here, but let me give you a competitive players perspective from a former online FPS player.
I relate wave-dashing to bunnyhopping in FPS games. Both allow to manipulate movement to a player's advantage by exploiting the game engine. Both techniques however at first, seemed to be fine. In fact, when bunnyhopping (or strafe jumping) was discovered in Quake 1, Id Software thought it was brilliant that people could find a way to manipulate the engine for greater speed/manevuerability.
However, other games based on the Q1 engine (mainly half life) eventually saw bunnyhopping as a technique while valuable, really did not fit into place with the game enviornments (i.e. CS, DoD). Of course there are some games that kept it in (TFC, NS) but the majority of games based off the engine took it out.
The same thing appears to be happening in Smash Bros Brawl. The developers saw wavedashing as a bug, and corrected it. I'm sure a lot of competitive players were upset at first because they spent a lot of time mastering the technique (just as people did with bunnyhopping). But the bottom line is: Wavedashing was a bug, and the developers felt a need to fix it.
I'm sure the competitive players that exist now in Melee will have a leg up on the competititon, especially to new players who have never touched the game. I would not worry about the lack of pro tricks that are being implemented in the new game, as I am sure that there are going to be new ones, and that the general combat skills that were developed in melee, will mostly transfer to brawl.
Granted, I am new, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt. I am just trying to shed an outsider's perspective on the melee to brawl transformation.
I relate wave-dashing to bunnyhopping in FPS games. Both allow to manipulate movement to a player's advantage by exploiting the game engine. Both techniques however at first, seemed to be fine. In fact, when bunnyhopping (or strafe jumping) was discovered in Quake 1, Id Software thought it was brilliant that people could find a way to manipulate the engine for greater speed/manevuerability.
However, other games based on the Q1 engine (mainly half life) eventually saw bunnyhopping as a technique while valuable, really did not fit into place with the game enviornments (i.e. CS, DoD). Of course there are some games that kept it in (TFC, NS) but the majority of games based off the engine took it out.
The same thing appears to be happening in Smash Bros Brawl. The developers saw wavedashing as a bug, and corrected it. I'm sure a lot of competitive players were upset at first because they spent a lot of time mastering the technique (just as people did with bunnyhopping). But the bottom line is: Wavedashing was a bug, and the developers felt a need to fix it.
I'm sure the competitive players that exist now in Melee will have a leg up on the competititon, especially to new players who have never touched the game. I would not worry about the lack of pro tricks that are being implemented in the new game, as I am sure that there are going to be new ones, and that the general combat skills that were developed in melee, will mostly transfer to brawl.
Granted, I am new, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt. I am just trying to shed an outsider's perspective on the melee to brawl transformation.
shadenexus18
Smash Master
With things like lack of Melee Techiniques not present, it makes you wonder whether PC Chris, Ken, Isai, etc etc will still be on top of the Smash World. I know with extensive practice, mindgames, my short hop, and a couple of other tricks of the trade that I discover, I plan to dethrone them.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
It's far more logical to conclude that they had no grievances towards the wavedash, but instead they simply wanted to change the air dodge to fit with the new aerial mechanics. It just so happens that the wavedash was a casualty along the way. Besides, why would they keep a form of it, wavelanding, in if they were so deadset against it?
Adi
Smash Lord
It was just an coincidental series of events that occured with the change of air dodge mechanics. I bet they probably don't care either way because they know that casuals are going to be providing the money and they'll by it anyways.
h1roshi
Smash Hero
ive said it a ton of times before, as soon as you dont see it as melee 2.0 it would be fine. you shouldnt be thinking. "oh theres no this or that in brawl". if you are , that means you are still comparing. you should be seeing brawl as a completey new game. that way its not a matter if missing this or missing that, cuz you would have no game to compare it to. brawl is its onw game and you have to see it as such. we as a community will undoubtly create our own advaanced techs and will just play smarter and have more mindgames. it'll be fine...peace
-hiroshi
-hiroshi
Techniques are not the reasons PC, Ken etc or any other competitive smasher are good. They are good because they see the game in a different way them most people. They have experience from playing other really good players but most importantly have the desire to become better at the game.
Plain and simple when online brawl comes out the pros will be playing the pros and the noobs will be playing their friends and more noobs. Don't expect to get online and just start playing with Isai, Pc, Fast Like Tree and other good people because it won't happen. You have to earn your right to be able to play with them. Also don't expect to practice playing with noobs for a year or so and expect to be considered a good player....the game takes dedication and a lot of practice.
=]
Also on the whole advanced technique issue. Wavedashing was not essential in melee although it did add a lot of depth into the game..it being removed in Brawl will not really matter.
The only thing that is GAY is the removal of the melee L cancel. The L cancel in Brawl takes A LOT away from the game also the removal of reverse B's and B canceling. If nintendo took these things out for the casual gamer only in the demo....that would be nice. Hopefully he realizes melee has a dedicated community of competitive smashers and won't take away the things that make melee so amazing.
Super_alex2
Smash Journeyman
Sakurai wants everything to be equal, I completely agree with HIM.
ihavespaceblondes
Smash Master
Isai is one of the most insanely creative and inventive smash players ever. He's the best SSB player in the world easily, and probably would be the best in Melee if he wanted to be, so how amazing he is in Brawl will only depend on how much he likes playing it.
There will obviously be new top players, as it's a new game. Just keep in mind that the top pros are there because of more than just experience.
You don't understand melee is "equal" everyone has the opportunity to learn advanced techniques go to tournaments and learn from the better players and practice to become better at the game.
The pros are good because they practice and have the desire to become better at the game.
I really hate when people say this....lol Isai is not the best at melee because there are people better then him plain and simple. He cant just magically say "I'm going to the best" it doesn't work like that. He just doesn't have enough skill at the game to beat top players anymore.
Classic-Black
Smash Journeyman
isn't the new L-cancel better, since it removes all lag instead of just half?
Either way it's a new game, but people that were insanely good with Melee will still be good with Brawl, after the learning curve
Either way it's a new game, but people that were insanely good with Melee will still be good with Brawl, after the learning curve