Takeshi245
Smash Champion
Because logic goes out the wind when it comes to the Brawl boards.
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In Regards To The Lack Of Melee Techniques
- Thread starter The Hypnotist
- Start date
blooagga
Smash Journeyman
I doubt a noob will come up to you on wi-fi and start short hop fastfalling..... THE NOOBS CANNOT WIN!! mwa ha ha. There will always be a gap, and people will find new advance techs to further pull the canyon apart
That same logic could be used to pull out short-hopping, fast-falling, double-jumping, shielding, smash attacks, and anything else that gives more options and more depth.
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
Got 'em, Takalth!
These people don't realize that their whining and terrible suggestions are just making the game worse. It's baffling.
Bajef8
Smash Ace
yes again, but those are all things listed in the manual, and that were intended to be used. wavedashing isn't and was never intended to be used. so my point still stands.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 10,479
Yes, your logic still has a glaring hole in it: you never established that doing something unintended by the creator is a bad thing. I purchase paper plates and use them as frisbees. I use textbooks as mouse pads. I used K'NEX to build a rack for my Wii remotes. Why is your mind so locked down that someone has to spell out your options for you? Are you that incapable of thinking outside the box?
Mama
Smash Ace
I certainly hope you're joking. If not I'd like to get a copy of that manual you speak of.
Seriously though, wave dashing does not give anyone an advantage at all. It does not give them speed either. It can simply mess with a noobs head. Your point does not stand. It went limp the second you posted it. What would give someone speed over a noob is knowing when to L-cancel to reduce their lag. A noob doesn't know how to do that so they would still be beaten just as badly as they would if if the person decided to wavedash. Noobs get torn to shreds due to lack of experience in the competitive field. Not being in the competitive mind set (playing to win) and not knowing the mechanics of a game completely. In a genre where the players examine the game down to the frames what do you expect? To walk into a tourny and be good just because you and your chums can beat each other?
One of the key differences between Pros and non pros is the play to win mentality. Pros don't worry about a chain grab being cheap or a combo being unfair and neither does the game. Smash doesn't know cheap and fair. Smash only knows win and lose. Get that through your head please.
EDIT : I didn't see his other posts....
L-canceling, as I've said before, has been in Smash since the days of the 64. You can still cancel lag in Brawl. Its even more effective than before since it elliminates ALL lag. Fast fall just before the aerial.
I think the reason you think the things are so cheap is simply because you didn't know about them. They're esoteric. several things are that way. If you want to compete you have to keep up with the crowd not sit back and say "Hey you can't do that man" Nobody is going to stop for you in Brawl buddy boy. When new things are discovered are you going to sit their like a chump or step your game up? And FYI the reason wave dashing is gone is really due to the physics engine being more momentum oriented. They made the dodge based on momentum because its more realistic and thats what the engine allows. Enough said. Do you honestly think they'd spend all this time elliminating something as trivial and esoteric as wave dashing so that the 5 million other people who don't know about them or care about them will keep on not knowing and caring? From a business standpoint that doesn't make sense.
Bajef8
Smash Ace
the manual that came with the game idiot. i hope you still have the melee manual so you have a copy of "the manual i speak of." and L-canceling is out is it not? which means that it was found and removed by the game designers. you must be as shallow as i supposedly am; since when does wavedashing not give you speed? for certain characters it's faster than their sprints.
Mama
Smash Ace
I'm going to direct one more thing at Baje and its probably going to be a double post depending on if he's stuck reading that first post or not...
Wavelanding was the more useful form of the slide. And guess what? Its in Brawl. And you know what else? It can be used almost if not just as effectively as it was in Melee. The momentum based aerials will calls players to slide along the ground just like a wave land. If you're hell bent on suggesting the developers wanted wave dashing gone what have you got to say to this? Its something thats part of the game now....does that mean the developers actually liked what they saw the players doing? Or is it like I said and its momentum based. Either way I win lolz.
The pros will likely utilize the land to its fullest while noobs will be aware of it or completely oblivious to its existence again. And even if they learn it theres still a ton of other things they have to learn in order to be good. Wave dashing is not the be all end all advanced techniques. Its simply an overrated manuever that can be used to *** with the minds of other players.
And Like I said the L-cancel is different and even more effective (some might say broken but to each his own). Fast fall before the aerial and that elliminates lag completely. And float canceling is very much in Brawl also. Peach's exclusive lag elliminator. If they really wanted to elliminate the magic that is lag canceling then that would definitely be gone...but it aint so what say you?
Also keep in mind that L-canceling might have only been absent in the demo. After all why would they remove the devils gift and give us something thats even more over powered? Its people that see things the way you do that make the pros put on their elitist hats so I'll go get mine...
If you think that Brawl will give you the opportunity to stand on the same plateau as the god that I am and expect to beat the now buffed Peach then you my weak minded friend are sadly mistaken. Ganondorf will probably be god tier too. So I'll have my two favorite tag team characters to crush your dignity into the dust before my feet...if I can find some dust on the internet.
Wavelanding was the more useful form of the slide. And guess what? Its in Brawl. And you know what else? It can be used almost if not just as effectively as it was in Melee. The momentum based aerials will calls players to slide along the ground just like a wave land. If you're hell bent on suggesting the developers wanted wave dashing gone what have you got to say to this? Its something thats part of the game now....does that mean the developers actually liked what they saw the players doing? Or is it like I said and its momentum based. Either way I win lolz.
The pros will likely utilize the land to its fullest while noobs will be aware of it or completely oblivious to its existence again. And even if they learn it theres still a ton of other things they have to learn in order to be good. Wave dashing is not the be all end all advanced techniques. Its simply an overrated manuever that can be used to *** with the minds of other players.
No. Bad dog. The Manual mentions nothing about the current advanced techniques. You were implying that everything but wavedashing and L-canceling was in the manual. Where is dash dancing? Where is the little section on mind games? Thats what I thought.
And Like I said the L-cancel is different and even more effective (some might say broken but to each his own). Fast fall before the aerial and that elliminates lag completely. And float canceling is very much in Brawl also. Peach's exclusive lag elliminator. If they really wanted to elliminate the magic that is lag canceling then that would definitely be gone...but it aint so what say you?
Also keep in mind that L-canceling might have only been absent in the demo. After all why would they remove the devils gift and give us something thats even more over powered? Its people that see things the way you do that make the pros put on their elitist hats so I'll go get mine...
If you think that Brawl will give you the opportunity to stand on the same plateau as the god that I am and expect to beat the now buffed Peach then you my weak minded friend are sadly mistaken. Ganondorf will probably be god tier too. So I'll have my two favorite tag team characters to crush your dignity into the dust before my feet...if I can find some dust on the internet.
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
hhaha oh god dont even try it you're not me gtfo.
heh Its over. In before bowser fsmash. The 1st post in this thread makes it entirely worthless.
We have the Lag cancel thing going on, game looks fun, DI, mindgames spacing, gamecube controllers. Im not even THAT competitive anyway so me and my friends will play both brawl and melee and have fun. Seriously stop trying to mix brawl and melee, wait till you play it. Ogre said it, if I can get over it, anyone can.
Please.
*evil laugh*
With stage designer we will rebuild FD! fox only.. oh wait its not as fun anymore since fox isnt hax good.
Im out.
Bajef8
Smash Ace
i never said anything about wavelanding so i guess you would win lol. and did you get a copy of that manual i spoke of?
(not intended to start another argument)
Ogre_Deity_Link
Smash Lord
I'm slightly worried about this sliding thing, only because what if a certain character(s) don't/doesn't have an aerial attack that will allow them to slide? Will they become obsolete? I don't want Brawl to turn into another game where only 3-4 characters are mostly used competitively, I'd like to see a huge variety.
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
Oh god man, its sliding.
If you cant wavedash then its not really that abusable, itll be a good mindgame and maybe allow some characters a moving forward smash or tilt. Thats it.
brawls totally different. I doubt this technique will define the stregnth of a character in this game.
Mario for top I say.
edit : Falcon for too top
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
I doubt it, Orge. It seems like we're going to have more characters this time because of the buffs.
Ogre_Deity_Link
Smash Lord
That's good
And when they said sliding, I'm equating WD = Slding...
Yeah. I'll STFU now.
And when they said sliding, I'm equating WD = Slding...
Yeah. I'll STFU now.
falcasouris
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2007
- Messages
- 9
so yea, the mian reason wd and **** was in, in my opinion is the nintendo programmers for smash are lazy half assers, so not having wd just means they got alittle better at programming. But besides that....props to TheHypnotist, theirs been abuit of misunderstanding on his part i think, but personally, yes i agree with TheHypnotist. You make an exellent point, nintendo, if they ever got up off their lazy ***** ot program **** correctly, would take away every competitive aspect of the game givin half the chance, because thye stated that thry wanted this game to be for the casual player (aka, people to lazy to spend and hour learning adv. techs) i personally love wd and ****, but i dont play in tourneys or anything, sp im kinda casual but suprise suprise, i dont mind WD!!!!!!!!! so yea, nintendo is trying to reduce skill level in brawl, but ive already given up on the game anyways...
Mama
Smash Ace
Never fear. Wave landing doesn't place a character above the rest at all. Characters that wouldn't have one (if any) would have a play style that doesn't utilize it. Thats the beauty of Smash. And if Brawl is as balanced as we all hope then the options for play styles will vary greater than they did in Melee. So what if a character can jump at you then slide backward. Be ready for it and punish them for being predictable.
Ogre_Deity_Link
Smash Lord
This space for rent.
(Ignore this post)
(Ignore this post)
jupiter
Smash Apprentice
this is turning into a big crying-contest....
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
Good job not contributing anything significant. Anyways, this thread should just be closed. They'll be new techniques we'll learn in the long run. Who's with me?! Oh, and 1,400 post!!! YAY!!!
Team Giza
Smash Lord
Nintendo isn't trying to get rid of the competitive scene at all. They are just trying to make it easier for people to get the basics... since lets face it, most Wii owners are complete gaming *******. If any depth is removed because of this it was not in Nintendo's intentions IMO. They are not interested in lowering the skill cap. They just want to lower the learning curve to low level play.
L-canceling through a button compared to the new L-canceling system also means nothing about them lowering the skill cap. If anything I think the new L-canceling is to make it more situation specific. You will need to know things ahead of time in most cases before attempting it instead of just pressing a back trigger at the right time. If anything, I think the new L-canceling is more a test of skill and knowledge of the game than the old one.
The lack of wavedashing. Now I know a lot of you casual players want to believe that it was removed to try and get rid of competitive play or un-glitch the game. I disagree however. I believe the only reason wavedashing is gone is because it just disappeared when they were trying to create the new, more advanced air combat system. Wavedashing removal was just a side effect of this. I think that they even noticed this and put the functions of wavedashing into other techniques in brawl. The new "waveland" type move, and rolling off edges are good examples of this. Not to mention that 'sudden stop' thing people noticed.
If they really wanted to get rid of the competitive scene and advanced techniques all together they would have. But for some reason we still have moonwalking, float canceling and other more character specific advanced techs in there. We still have crouch canceling and it has been made less-noob friendly (add to the skill pot).
Nintendo is not trying to take away the competitiveness or advanced tactics from the game. They just want the game to be different and some of the old techniques get pushed aside to make way for the new concepts. They are trying to make the game easier to get the hang of the basics but they aren't purposely going out of their way to make the game less competitive. I would argue that they are going out of their way to also keep the more serious players happy.
L-canceling through a button compared to the new L-canceling system also means nothing about them lowering the skill cap. If anything I think the new L-canceling is to make it more situation specific. You will need to know things ahead of time in most cases before attempting it instead of just pressing a back trigger at the right time. If anything, I think the new L-canceling is more a test of skill and knowledge of the game than the old one.
The lack of wavedashing. Now I know a lot of you casual players want to believe that it was removed to try and get rid of competitive play or un-glitch the game. I disagree however. I believe the only reason wavedashing is gone is because it just disappeared when they were trying to create the new, more advanced air combat system. Wavedashing removal was just a side effect of this. I think that they even noticed this and put the functions of wavedashing into other techniques in brawl. The new "waveland" type move, and rolling off edges are good examples of this. Not to mention that 'sudden stop' thing people noticed.
If they really wanted to get rid of the competitive scene and advanced techniques all together they would have. But for some reason we still have moonwalking, float canceling and other more character specific advanced techs in there. We still have crouch canceling and it has been made less-noob friendly (add to the skill pot).
Nintendo is not trying to take away the competitiveness or advanced tactics from the game. They just want the game to be different and some of the old techniques get pushed aside to make way for the new concepts. They are trying to make the game easier to get the hang of the basics but they aren't purposely going out of their way to make the game less competitive. I would argue that they are going out of their way to also keep the more serious players happy.
falcasouris
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2007
- Messages
- 9
so...anyone else for just forgetting melee and brawl all together and just reverting to smash 64 online via internet adapter for comp, seriously, that games ****s its two counter parts up man
Blood Alpha
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2007
- Messages
- 39
Sigh why are you guys fretting over losing some AT's?, i guess you are afraid to adapt and change your playing style or you simply counted on them to be good. See brawl will have AT's as well and if you think any different you have no idea about games.
Adi
Smash Lord
Yeah, Brawl's going to be a big final smash ****fest and Melee is about who can be the gayest. VIVA LA 64!
Dizzynecro
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2007
- Messages
- 446
I agree that nintendo refuses to acknowlege the competetive acpect of their game. I'm disapointed by the loss of some advanced tech niques but considering wavedashing was a glitch to begin with im sure there will be more advanced techniques as we find them.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 10,479
Wavedashing is not a glitch.
falcasouris
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2007
- Messages
- 9
yea, well, we might find some more glitchs in brawl, but im dead serious. Forget about Brawl, pick up your N64 and throw in smash and telll me it isnt better than anything they can posibly come up with. the stages are balenced as well, character imbalances are minimal and mindgames and combos make up the vast majority of the battle. Lets just forget brawl and melee and all 64 it up ^^
Team Giza
Smash Lord
Personally I think 64 favors offense over defense too much. And its lack of footsies in that kind of environment can make the game very unappealing to some people.
64, Melee, Brawl are all very different games. All of them seem to have different things that are effective. Each have audiences that would prefer one over the others.
64, Melee, Brawl are all very different games. All of them seem to have different things that are effective. Each have audiences that would prefer one over the others.
Yaya
Smash Champion
Guys, Glitches are a part of every game.
Some are good.
Some are bad.
When a good glitch comes around, people abuse it to improve their game skills.
Glitches come, glitches go.
When a sequel comes, people expect the glitch to be there, but it is not.
Fury comes among them, they complain about it, saying it will hurt the gameplay.
Glitches are a part of every game.
There will be new glitches.
Some are good.
Some are bad.
When a good glitch comes around, people abuse it to improve their game skills.
Glitches come, glitches go.
When a sequel comes, people expect the glitch to be there, but it is not.
Fury comes among them, they complain about it, saying it will hurt the gameplay.
Glitches are a part of every game.
There will be new glitches.
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
haha what a purist, I like this guy.
Go to the ssb64 section. SSB64 is online you know. Play for hours for free with humans. Doesnt get any better.
Adi
Smash Lord
**** straight, this thread got 100 times better.
LavisFiend
Smash Lord
*Begins making spears, peeking up and shaking his head
The key word kiddies is "adaptation."
You can't expect to have everything your way, it's a fact that Brawl will do something to piss everyone off in some way. For me it was Little Mac, I REALLY wanted him playable, and he will not be...
but instead of getting my boxers in a knot over something so small, I adapted to this news....
I don't complain about it. That's the past, gotta move on you know?
Some of you people really need to get the crap over yourselves and quit assuming Nintendo needs to bend over backwards just to kiss your ***. They are not turning their back on anyone, if anyone is turning their back on anyone, it's those of you who constantly ***** and moan about everything....
Now, listen to me:
Everyone is going to buy this game no matter what...
So bawling over small things is a waste of forum space....
AND **** IT, IT NEEDS TO STOP!
The key word kiddies is "adaptation."
You can't expect to have everything your way, it's a fact that Brawl will do something to piss everyone off in some way. For me it was Little Mac, I REALLY wanted him playable, and he will not be...
but instead of getting my boxers in a knot over something so small, I adapted to this news....
I don't complain about it. That's the past, gotta move on you know?
Some of you people really need to get the crap over yourselves and quit assuming Nintendo needs to bend over backwards just to kiss your ***. They are not turning their back on anyone, if anyone is turning their back on anyone, it's those of you who constantly ***** and moan about everything....
Now, listen to me:
Everyone is going to buy this game no matter what...
So bawling over small things is a waste of forum space....
AND **** IT, IT NEEDS TO STOP!
falcasouris
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2007
- Messages
- 9
Im not ganna get Brawl. Im dead serious, i like 64 ALOT and melee was **** good too, but i dont want to ruin my expirence by playing this more than maybe once at a friends house. Honestly, just cause the previous two was good doesnt make the third one a bound winner, and from what ive seen/hear, im not getting it. And i know a good amount of people are only getting it because of loyalty of the seris. So yea, nintendo does have to bend over backwards and kiss our ***, you know why? cause were paying for the **** thing. (btw, im not being mean too you, props to your opinion and all)
Team Giza
Smash Lord
On that note. Nerf Spicy Curry.
Adi
Smash Lord
I'm not sure how much Brawl is going to suck but what I do know is that Smash 64 owns and we need to stop getting off topics ;D.
LavisFiend
Smash Lord
I don't think you are grasping just how small as an individual you are to Nintendo. Again, they don't have to cater to your needs, and they won't.
Fine, don't get it, your loss. It dosen't change a thing really, except for the fact that you will be missing out on a big game.
Have a little Patience
In all honesty, I know for sure there will be glitches that will eventually be discovered to be exploited. There's no way any game can be "perfect." So, even though they'd removed previous glitches/techniques, we will certainly become well-acquainted with Brawl in due time. And in that time, we'll find bunches of new things and make videos/tutorials/screens/etc of these things to share on the boards.
All I'm really saying is, don't fret over what's lost, but just look forward to what you're going to need to learn to become awesome.
In all honesty, I know for sure there will be glitches that will eventually be discovered to be exploited. There's no way any game can be "perfect." So, even though they'd removed previous glitches/techniques, we will certainly become well-acquainted with Brawl in due time. And in that time, we'll find bunches of new things and make videos/tutorials/screens/etc of these things to share on the boards.
All I'm really saying is, don't fret over what's lost, but just look forward to what you're going to need to learn to become awesome.
Adi
Smash Lord
That doesn't give them the excuse to ignore the needs of a community which although small, still constitutes the backbone of the smash community.