Immediate airial Phantasm

[Agosta44]

Messing around with Falco again. I don't know if anyone has been doing this, but if you phantasm immediately after you leave the ground (just >B and Y), you do an extremely low Phantasm across the stage (your legs should be somewhat in the ground).

Benefits:
1. Less landing lag than using on the ground (I'm assuming so, definately looks so)
2. You'll spike them into the stage. Always a plus
3. You'll get a wavedash like effect at the end of the move, giving you more space between you and your opponent, making you less vulnerable and harder to punish.

I only started doing this like 10 minutes ago, so it still needs testing to see how helpful it can be. If this is old, my bad.

 

[Yukiteru]

oooh, that looks like a neat little trick. *must try now*

 

[Agosta44]

I was actually about to edit my post -_-

The spike effect doesn't work on taller characters. I was testing this on Kirby when I found this.

 

[Omega_Knight]

Wait so you jump and then quickly phantasm?

 

[redgreenblue]

I do this quite often, it's a good alternative to just plain old phantasming across the stage. You get more distance too. Usually when I'm on the edge I drop down then quickly jump up (ledgehop) then phantasm slightly above my opponents head. Their counter attack is usually too low to hit me and my phantasm spikes them down into the ground then back up, giving me more time to recover from the side+b and start juggling.

 

[fransisco4]

Can u SH>B TO do it??

 

[Agosta44]

You need to reposition your hand so you can hit Y and >B at the same time.

 

[Dynamism?]

I've been doing this from day 2 of Brawl when I unlocked Falco lol

I always thought this was a common knowledge thing o.O

Oh well, it's really effective. Be sure to mix it up with the normal one accordingly. Whenever you're in range to go off the stage, use the grounded sideB (remember, it's longer in the air) and if there is a platform above or they are at the end of the phantasm it's good to plop them upwards.

It's MUCH faster than the normal phantasm. I use X instead of Y and it works just fine. That's only if I use Random and get Falco though, if I'm counterpicking in a tourney I use my changed configuration with Z as jump and Y as grab. It's instant and easy for many things, such as this

 

[Massiveguns]

if you set R to special like i do then it is easy to do this with comfort but it is not horribly usefull because no matter what is has almost 0 combo potential..... i do really like this trick though to gain spacing because most opponents i force to aproach me with laser spam and if u use this u get a little further away when u fantasm through them to laser spam again.... although its really situational

 

[Mr.Trite]

So what if it has 0 combo potential.

It's meant for positioning/spacing, etc. not damage.

 

[Blad01]

^It can also have the benefit to surprise your opponent.

And yeah, IAP has a little "combo" potential. But you can still chase in the air after it.

 

[The Idealist]

well if people are saying it's better to jump first, ill try it.

 

[~Kaworu~]

thats sounds pretty cool to try!! im goona do it now!

 

[wasabicheese]

it works pretty well, thx 4 the info

 

[Buddahmonk]

wow this is a pretty nice teq, ive used it before but never saw the benefits :D

 

[Krayn]

Its like the Fox jump instant shine. It makes foxes shine quicker when you jump and shine right away. Same with this, if u jump and phantasm right away, it has those effects he mentioned.

 

[IrArby]

it is not horribly usefull because no matter what is has almost 0 combo potential.....

LOL do you remember what game your playing?

 

[Dyxnar14]

Its a cool little move to mindgame ur opponent

 

[phxdragon54]

i've been working on it but have some trouble with it occasionally. is it possible to press -> + B too fast b/c falco will commonly short hop and then do nothing although i pressed -> + B. is it better to avoid short hopping backwards so falco doesn't flip backwards? or is it better (when facing away from the opponent / with your back to the opponent) to jump forward and away then reverse -> + B?

 

[Stuart Hayden]

I did this **** a lot of out of habit of using Ike. Because f.special and dodge rolls are the only way I move with Ike.

Screw walking and running. Dude is slow as hell.

 

[Airborne]

there is also a benefit about it too. if you phantasm from the middle of the stage on any neutral, you'll grab the ledge instead of going to the edge, so you get faster lag recovery and you're in the perfect place to edgeguard if you had just knocked your opponent quite some distance.

 

[Hype]

I Thought this was known, the falco I usually play does this all the time.

 

[ftl]

I Thought this was known, the falco I usually play does this all the time.

It is well known. The thread is ancient.

 

[0Room]

Lol I kind of agree with Dynamism.
I thought it was common knowledge.

But it is a great thing to do.

 

[Jecht22]

Falco sucks. Go fox

 

[Jecht22]

Falco sucks, go fox

 

[VaneWalker]

Falco sucks. Go fox

Falco sucks, go fox

Wow what a double posting troll. I'm going to call a Moderator.

"I gotta try this trick"

 

[Tommy_G]

You guys realize you can cancel this move anywhere you want. Not just 4 places or w/e, Anywhere. The hit box extends all of the way to the end of the cancel too.

With practiced timing, you can cancel this move in front of the opponents feet for an extremely fast jab combo/jab grab surprise.

You can cancel this move at their feet. Although it doesn't sound like a good idea because you could get punished if they shield it, you have to consider that this move has a high shield poke rate. Also, you can shield, roll, or sidestep ridiculously quick to avoid being punished.

You can mindgame it and do a bunch of short phantasm to get them scared.

Or you can phantasm straight past them.

Phantasm usually combos into a up air, back air, or neutral air. They can get out of it only if they have almost frame perfect timing(tested on metaknight so other characters might not even be able to do anything to it).

 

[J4pu]

You guys realize you can cancel this move anywhere you want. Not just 4 places or w/e, Anywhere. The hit box extends all of the way to the end of the cancel too.

With practiced timing, you can cancel this move in front of the opponents feet for an extremely fast jab combo/jab grab surprise.

You can cancel this move at their feet. Although it doesn't sound like a good idea because you could get punished if they shield it, you have to consider that this move has a high shield poke rate. Also, you can shield, roll, or sidestep ridiculously quick to avoid being punished.

You can mindgame it and do a bunch of short phantasm to get them scared.

Or you can phantasm straight past them.

Phantasm usually combos into a up air, back air, or neutral air. They can get out of it only if they have almost frame perfect timing(tested on metaknight so other characters might not even be able to do anything to it).

Dude there's only 3 cancel lengths: instant, about half, slightly shorter than full.
It can combo into a Bair fairly well but Uair takes way too long for the hitbox to come out, even Bair requires your opponent to not be expecting it. Unless an IAP shortened phantasm gives you less lag than a full IAP since my friend's Snake got tricked into a full one into Bair the first time but the 2nd time his Bair came out first and I landed literally right behind where he was initially standing.

frame perfect timing doesn't apply in brawl, there's a buffer system.

Show me a phantasm that gets canceled a tiny bit after the initial cancel and I'll just give up at thinking I know anything about Falco.

And I'm actually very good at canceling the phantasm, I'm 2 for 2 of canceling it when i wouldnt have made it back to the stage otherwise in tourneys, just saying I know something/have some practice with it.

 

[Tommy_G]

Dude there's only 3 cancel lengths: instant, about half, slightly shorter than full.
It can combo into a Bair fairly well but Uair takes way too long for the hitbox to come out, even Bair requires your opponent to not be expecting it. Unless an IAP shortened phantasm gives you less lag than a full IAP since my friend's Snake got tricked into a full one into Bair the first time but the 2nd time his Bair came out first and I landed literally right behind where he was initially standing.

frame perfect timing doesn't apply in brawl, there's a buffer system.

Show me a phantasm that gets canceled a tiny bit after the initial cancel and I'll just give up at thinking I know anything about Falco.

And I'm actually very good at canceling the phantasm, I'm 2 for 2 of canceling it when i wouldnt have made it back to the stage otherwise in tourneys, just saying I know something/have some practice with it.

You only notice 3 in the air because that's how fast your eyes react. If there was a way to see where it cancels exactly when you cancel it without the gliding and distortion that happens in the air, you can see it cancels everywhere. I do it all of the time. If the IAP is close enough to the ground, there is no sliding from the cancel either.

I mean about frame perfect as in if they spam the Cstick, theres still a time frame between C-stick hits. Even with the buffer system its still a ridiculous timing. I've had times when people tell me they couldn't do anything while watching them spam the C-stick and others have hit me.

The up air only combos if you start it while rising and hit with the top most hitbox on it. I like back air best though.

 

[J4pu]

You only notice 3 in the air because that's how fast your eyes react. If there was a way to see where it cancels exactly when you cancel it without the gliding and distortion that happens in the air, you can see it cancels everywhere. I do it all of the time. If the IAP is close enough to the ground, there is no sliding from the cancel either.

I mean about frame perfect as in if they spam the Cstick, theres still a time frame between C-stick hits. Even with the buffer system its still a ridiculous timing. I've had times when people tell me they couldn't do anything while watching them spam the C-stick and others have hit me.

The up air only combos if you start it while rising and hit with the top most hitbox on it. I like back air best though.

I will test canceling the grounded phantasm starting from an edge many times tomorrow, If I see more than 4 ending landing spots I will concede the argument if not i will conclude there are only 3 cancels and a full length.
Perhaps it is possible to combo it into a Bair, I didnt think about it before but my jump may not have been "frame perfect" after the phantasm. Also could have been at a bad percent for it to work, combos are percent dependent most of the time.

 

[Tommy_G]

I will test canceling the grounded phantasm starting from an edge many times tomorrow, If I see more than 4 ending landing spots I will concede the argument if not i will conclude there are only 3 cancels and a full length.
Perhaps it is possible to combo it into a Bair, I didnt think about it before but my jump may not have been "frame perfect" after the phantasm. Also could have been at a bad percent for it to work, combos are percent dependent most of the time.

It's going to be hard to do at first, but with enough practice, it becomes second nature.

 

[J4pu]

It's going to be hard to do at first, but with enough practice, it becomes second nature.

i assume you mean the IAP >aerial combo
cuz i can cancel very well as it is now, and I'm like 99.9% sure you can only cancel 3 lengths, but we shall see soon.

 

[Tommy_G]

i assume you mean the IAP >aerial combo
cuz i can cancel very well as it is now, and I'm like 99.9% sure you can only cancel 3 lengths, but we shall see soon.

I was talking about canceling it at any time. It becomes second nature to stop either at their feet, inside them, or past them.

 

[Rat]

Dammit Tommy G. I just started doing that cancel nonsense last week and then you go and tell people about it? I was so excited to bust this **** out at the next tournament I go to, and have people go all crazy at how ridiculous it is.

But more seriously, when you start canceling the overB it becomes not only a crazy high priority and huge move, but a feint, a spacing tool, and a means of approach. You can stop the phantasm on top of peoples then Utilt or Jab, before they shield grab. Ridiculous.

 

[Tommy_G]

Dammit Tommy G. I just started doing that cancel nonsense last week and then you go and tell people about it? I was so excited to bust this **** out at the next tournament I go to, and have people go all crazy at how ridiculous it is.

But more seriously, when you start canceling the overB it becomes not only a crazy high priority and huge move, but a feint, a spacing tool, and a means of approach. You can stop the phantasm on top of peoples then Utilt or Jab, before they shield grab. Ridiculous.

I know. Lmao sorry dude. Its so good, almost broken. I thought about it months ago but didnt start practicing it like 2-3 weeks ago. I started practicing it again because of the combo into back air, but it's opened up into so many options.

Don't forget about the mindgames with it, like shortening it, as well as the high shield poke rate. When they see you start to do it, they shield. It's funny as hell.

Someone needs to record a phantasm hitting someone and slow it down so we can see exactly where it hits to be able to constantly shield poke it.

Btw short canceled phantasm has a hitbox

 

[sandwhale]

must start practicing phantasm canceling now

 

[The Bird]

sad face, I wanted to start this post Oh well.
Oh and bout the spike, not so sure about that. but i think a midair one has more push. It's only a spike if the opponent is is midair, I do believe.

 

[PK-ow!]

must start practicing phantasm canceling now

Seconded.

This is awesome.

 

[Vorguen]

Seems better than just plain old phantasm.