I'm disgusted

[McDizzle]

I made an account so I could make this post. I've been watching brawl tournaments since the game came out, I play with my friends but not competitively.

I mostly stay at the tournie video forum. I've never posted anything, nor commented on the youtube links with the videos. I just sit back and enjoy some really good Smash Brawl play, I've loved this game for quite sometime.

But recently with the Apex 2012 videos I've been watching, I had to close them out, I literally could not bare watching certain videos. I don't care about people's opinions or the significance and importance each player ranks, I'm not really in the community, but I honestly had to get this off my chest.

And of course I could turn the sound off and listen to music but I don't, I enjoy the ingame sound and I enjoy all the commentating from the smash pros I admire.

But I am utterly, physically disgusted by the commentating of a certain player who I used to hold in such a high regard. Pierce was simply a name I grew to know, you're all names to me, I don't know the people behind them. But whenever I watched Pierce play I loved it, he's an amazing Marth and watching him go against other incredible Marths was always so much fun. I found myself cheering for the green Marth, Pierce.

I love watching Ally the most for obvious reasons, he's a champ and seems like a humble kind of guy. So I'm sitting there enjoying this evening finally an Ally video gets posted, it's against a pretty good MK, they're battling wonderfully.

But in the middle of watching zero vs Ally, I literally realized I had been frowning since 30 seconds into the video, it was now at 11 minutes. I was frowning and through each and every rude, blunt, conceited, arrogant, disrespectful, and downright ignorant remark this commentator made I felt myself being physically appalled and disgusted that this man represent the kind and gracious Smash community I've been lurking in for years.

Of course it doesn't really matter, I can get over it, he's just being himself, anyone can commentate, I should fly to the tournie and commentate myself if I have such a problem with it. But I'm getting this off my chest for many reasons, one is because I held this Pierce guy with such high regard. I don't know anyone's personality, I just new his playstyle and matches and I loved it.

But now... I can't watch this video and enjoy it. Every snarky ABSOLUTELY SURPRISED reaction, "HOW COULD THEY BE SO STUPID, WHY DIDN'T THEY DO THIS OR THAT." Comment I hear literally disgusts me. I've heard commentating that was beautiful, both guys complimenting each other on their thoughts, discussing what the player must be going through, the psychology behind decision. I've watched hours and hours worth.

But this... how this was allowed to continue... this, is just repulsing. I am extremely sorry if I've upset anyone, it was not my intention. These are just my genuine concerns.

 

[AlphaZealot]

First, I agree with you. There was some unprofessional commentary, especially from Pierce. His style seemed to be favoritism toward his friends and constantly trying to tell everyone what should have happened ("Whyyyy?"), among other annoying phrases commentators shouldn't use.

Second, in Pierce's defense, he did come on stream on Sunday and apologize with like 6,000+ people watching, which I think took a lot of guts.

---

The commentary overall in the Smash community, both Brawl and Melee, needs improvement. I mean I saw guys eating food on stream. Bad move. Trash talking other players or lower level players. Ragging on their own game (much less other games). Not knowing how to fill time with insightful things (e.g.:"We are at X spot in the bracket, X players are still in, we are X hours behind, or this and that is happening in the venue, [insert histories of the two players from a quick AiB search for them], tons of other fillers). Pierce broke some of the cardinal rules (trashing players, bias, and critiquing every single little thing) but all the commentators could have used work.

Personally I enjoyed Doom/Rapture the most.

 

[Gunblade789]

First, I agree with you. There was some unprofessional commentary, especially from Pierce. His style seemed to be favoritism toward his friends and constantly trying to tell everyone what should have happened ("Whyyyy?"), among other annoying phrases commentators shouldn't use.

Second, in Pierce's defense, he did come on stream on Sunday and apologize with like 6,000+ people watching, which I think took a lot of guts.

---

The commentary overall in the Smash community, both Brawl and Melee, needs improvement. I mean I saw guys eating food on stream. Bad move. Trash talking other players or lower level players. Ragging on their own game (much less other games). Not knowing how to fill time with insightful things (e.g.:"We are at X spot in the bracket, X players are still in, we are X hours behind, or this and that is happening in the venue, [insert histories of the two players from a quick AiB search for them], tons of other fillers). Pierce broke some of the cardinal rules (trashing players, bias, and critiquing every single little thing) but all the commentators could have used work.

Personally I enjoyed Doom/Rapture the most.

I actually kinda felt bad, after the fact, about the eating thing....I shouldn't have done that.

 

[z00ted]

I definitely agree with you.

 

[Flayl]

Commentators are people too, they have to eat. As long as they're not trying to talk at the same time I don't see the problem.

 

[Dark Hart]

Yea guys commentators shouldn't eat

 

[AlphaZealot]

They can eat - just don't do it on stream.

Imagine you are watching a football game or basketball game or [insert every TV commentator] - they are not eating on camera. You are definitely going to talk with food in your mouth (gross to a lot of people). This is why there are typically commentating teams or breaks for the commentators: so they can eat - JUST NOT ON CAMERA.

 

[KageMurphy]

I don't think I was eating on stream, I sure was drinking a lot of water though. I think Pierce just had a bad moment or two(which he said sorry for on Sunday over the stream), overall I loved commentating with him on a lot of Saturday ^___^

 

[Jellyfishn]

I will say I enjoyed a lot of the commentating, but there were some disappointing moments including trash-talking and stuff.

There were a lot of good commentators who focused on what was going on in the game, and each players strengths which was awesome. Especially towards players who were losing, comments like "he's going to have to_____to pull this off", or "_____ seems to be struggling this game, but he should start______" were very helpful. Not comments like "don't play so stupid" etc.

For the most part good job. The smash community will get better at commentating too. We're still just figuring stuff out.

 

[Djent]

The sad part is that I really liked the suggestions Pierce was making, just not the way he said them. Even top players can't guess right all the time, so it was neat hearing what the optimal choice would have been. I'll admit that I wasn't as disgusted with his delivery as the OP, but it *did* bother me to an extent. He just needs to learn to give criticism more tactfully without undercutting the talent of the competitors involved.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Drinking water is fine.

 

[Mew2King]

since when were there set rules on commentating? besides bias (which i agree with) i think pierce commentated fine

 

[crismas]

This is really disappointing to read this. The Apex staff originally conveyed to all commentators that this type of commentary wouldn't be tolerated and to be as unbiased as possible. Pierce wasn't in many of our meetings though and someone on staff should've have been monitering a lot of these issues. This is something that will be improved upon and fixed for next time.

 

[AlphaZealot]

The same as you don't expect a news anchor not to fart loudly on camera or a sportscaster not to tell you that if Kobe Bryant hadn't flicked his wrist better the shot would go in, the rules to commentating probably aren't in a book but they are almost universally understood. I've been around commentating a lot through MLG and I see what coaching and issues they deal with (including things like hair and make up) and basic, basic things like DON'T EAT ON CAMERA shouldn't have to be spelled out when you have an audience of several thousands people.

Imagine: someone tunes in and their first impression of the commentating team is how much food is in their mouths. Commentators primary function is, guess what, commentating, and commentating means talking. Guess what your mom told you not to do when you grew up? Don't talk with food in your mouth.

Do I really have to spell some of this stuff out (not just you M2K, you aren't the only one that seems...confused).

EDIT: Crismas: I contacted Strife and I think he talked with Pierce, not sure though how came of it. In the end, an hour coaching session for the commentators (all of them) on the Do's and Don'ts of commentating to make the stream look as great and professional as possible would have been a good idea in retrospect.

 

[Pierce7d]

First of all, I'd just like to say before I explain myself, that I don't believe in excuses. My behavior on the stream was absolutely atrocious, and I assure you no one is more disgusted than myself.

I practiced commentary and studied it a good deal before Apex to prepare, and I actually think Apex was still the WORST commentary I ever did. Commentary used to be a passion of mine, but now I'm just embarrassed, and I don't think you guys will see me on stream very much anymore.

I think I performed so poorly because I was just extremely tired and frustrated. I arrived at the venue Thursday night to help set up, and I left there about 2am or so. Then, in addition to doing commentary, I was also helping to run the tournament, arriving at 9 the latest, and leaving the venue no earlier than 3am, including the day when the tournament was completed.

I definitely did eat on camera. I definitely did not talk with food in my mouth, though I MIGHT'VE talked with a cough drop on my tongue. Yelling at people for hours telling them not to play friendlies, etc, you have to leave the venue now, etc, and also cheering for my friends, helped to kill my voice pretty quickly.

By Saturday Night, I was utterly exhausted, having gotten less than 8 hours of sleep in the last 48 hours, and stressed out trying to make everything run smoothly, and I definitely was extremely snarky. I'm very, very ashamed of it.

Alex Strife did not address me about it, but I brought it to DMs attention before anyone even called me out on it, as soon as I heard how dissatisfied the viewers were, and retired myself from the stream for the event. This is why I did not do any commentary on Sunday.

I really, really apologize to everyone who was watching the stream, and to all the players I disrespected. Anyone who knows me will tell you that's not who I am, and I'm not proud of myself at all.

 

[Thats-husbands-color]

I would like to point out EEvisu aka Black Phil was a great commentator at Apex. I am not a fan of brawl and am surprised I even watched some of the matches but EE is a good example of what commentators should aim toward.....a series of compliments and a play by play of whats happening while staying objective and not picking sides. He was also quite good at hyping up matches, but it is difficult to hype of some matches if there isn't a decent size crowd or its Apex SSBM finals (f-in camping).

So in summary I would recommend to all those looking to commentate to look back at some of the matches EE commentated and see how it made the matches both more entertaining to watch as well as not choosing sides during the match.

P.S. Prog trying the WWE im the bad guy I hate America commentating was almost unbearable and I found myself muting the screen at times so my ears wouldn't bleed

 

[InternetDrama]

But now... I can't watch this video and enjoy it. Every snarky ABSOLUTELY SURPRISED reaction, "HOW COULD THEY BE SO STUPID, WHY DIDN'T THEY DO THIS OR THAT." Comment I hear literally disgusts me. I've heard commentating that was beautiful, both guys complimenting each other on their thoughts, discussing what the player must be going through, the psychology behind decision. I've watched hours and hours worth.

But this... how this was allowed to continue... this, is just repulsing. I am extremely sorry if I've upset anyone, it was not my intention. These are just my genuine concerns.

First world problems, yo.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

I mean I saw guys eating food on stream. Bad move.

LOL i remember a video from the MLG days of Hugs commentating about how awesome his food was

Anyone please link it if you remember which video it was plz

 

[Morin0]

The Japanese commentary was the best. Also, besides the commentary, the chat was rampant with trolls. I'm pretty surprised that there was no people moderating the chat. That was pretty annoying.

 

[AlphaZealot]

I was modding it but only banning people who posts large blocks of capitalized texts or links (even though the links were ****'d).

Looking back I could have banned the trolls but I'm not sure that will do anything. After a certain point (thousands of people) for every troll you ban it could just cause more trolls to enter in their place.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Um
well I dont know if the commentary was supposed to be 'professional' because it was Apex, but I didn't really have a problem with Pierce's commentary.

The reason I love this community is because of how laid back and funny everyone is. When Brawl got picked up for MLG to be honest I was a little anxious because I don't want brawl to turn into this super cereal game where the commentators sound like golf announcers and people pack up their arcade sticks and leave the venue when they get eliminated. I LOVE the commentary from people like Pierce and Dogysammich, because its funny and laidback and insightful. I LIKE that they can eat a sandwich on stream. That what this community is all about. That's how come this community is more tight knit and more unmovable than any other. Because we know how to not take ourselves so seriously. We're not businessmen. We're not newscasters. we're fracking video gamers. Thats why Pierce did that kind of commentary, because Smashers are not built to do the kind of commentary that you guys apparently want. Personally, I found myself bored of the stream when some of the other people were on. Now maybe Apex was different because there were actual sponsors, and like i said, tell me if that's the issue. But otherwise I don't want to see two dudes in suits making casual comments telling me what I already know because I'm watching the stream. I want entertaining and insightful commentary. But I guess we're going to sacrifice that in order to pull more sponsors or something.

The only part I didn't like was when he was trash talking the low-level players, and he came on and apologized for it the next day, so it was all fine with me.

anyway Pierce seems to be apologetic so obviously he doesn't need or want anyone to defend him.
but I think you guys are being wayy too hard on him, and I think its a travesty that he wont be doing commentary much anymore. and I'm also sad that this community seems to prefer boring straight arrow commentary to actual entertaining and insightful commentary.

THAT'S JUST ME DOE

 

[-Cross-]

The sad part is that I really liked the suggestions Pierce was making, just not the way he said them. Even top players can't guess right all the time, so it was neat hearing what the optimal choice would have been. I'll admit that I wasn't as disgusted with his delivery as the OP, but it *did* bother me to an extent. He just needs to learn to give criticism more tactfully without undercutting the talent of the competitors involved.

^This 100%. Pierce had an off-day, and I don't think he should stop doing something that he's very good at.

anyway Pierce seems to be apologetic so obviously he doesn't need or want anyone to defend him.
but I think you guys are being wayy too hard on him, and I think its a travesty that he wont be doing commentary much anymore. and I'm also sad that this community seems to prefer boring straight arrow commentary to actual entertaining and insightful commentary.

THAT'S JUST ME DOE

Well it's not a matter of entertaining but more an issue of appropriate behavior. For example, I found his commentary of zero vs ally $50 MM entertaining, because it's the type of laidback trash talk that happens between players when they're playing friendlies. But that's not the type of things you want to be saying to thousands of people, most of who do not understand this type of situation and just find it rude. Pierce's previous commentaries have been more professional and still entertaining imo.

 

[theONEjanitor]

well like i said, i think its sad that we have to sacrifice what I like about this community just to appease a bunch of butthurt people in the chat.

but whatever i guess business is business

 

[Papero]

It's perfectly alright to have laidback commentary for smaller regional tournies.

But if you're trying to showcase your national tournaments to other communities, to people who are used to more professional commentary, you have to meet them on their terms.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Are you guys aware of how the other FGC took Apex?

All the people from UMvC3, AE, etc, do you guys know how they felt about Apex?

 

[Rubberbandman]

E.E., I don't think you noticed the commentary because Pierce was slowly getting grumpier as the day went on; then he because insufferable; He did the right thing for apologizing though, and I don't think he should quit it just because he had an off day of commentary. I always learn something when Pierce gets up to mic.

I believe that Phil had the best mix of commentary on the mic; he was both informative, on topic and through in a splash of humor every now and again.

Also, people, recognize that when you associate with the major fighters like Street Fighter and UMvC3, you are bound to have ton of trolls in the chat. So either you learn to deal with it, ban everyone (which will be detrimental in the long run obviously), learn that you can hide the stream chat on twitch tv.

 

[-Cross-]

Are you guys aware of how the other FGC took Apex?

All the people from UMvC3, AE, etc, do you guys know how they felt about Apex?

Actually don't know at all. I'm guessing it's not positive, but please do tell. Not trying to be sarcastic or anything, and I see no point in questions left unanswered.

 

[infiniteV115]

EE's commentary was legendary, I love that man.

 

[Exdeath]

LOL i remember a video from the MLG days of Hugs commentating about how awesome his food was

Anyone please link it if you remember which video it was plz

"This slim jim is mad greasy."

 

[Mastermooseman]

LOL i remember a video from the MLG days of Hugs commentating about how awesome his food was

Anyone please link it if you remember which video it was plz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R-QCsES8_M

Um

The reason I love this community is because of how laid back and funny everyone is.

Thats why Pierce did that kind of commentary, because Smashers are not built to do the kind of commentary that you guys apparently want. Personally, I found myself bored of the stream when some of the other people were on. Now maybe Apex was different because there were actual sponsors, and like i said, tell me if that's the issue. But otherwise I don't want to see two dudes in suits making casual comments telling me what I already know because I'm watching the stream. I want entertaining and insightful commentary.

I think I saw some of the video of him in his bad mood making and he just sounded annoying. I saw the stream of him apologizing though so everyone should forgive him.

Melee commentary was good, lol the GF was an actual hour, major mind drain to commentate.
I thought It was joke video that someone made 1 hour video and named it the GF, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z07CzxeXMVs

The Brawl stream commentary during the finals was good. That one guy was making up random dates for things though lol, "I never played this good since forever" "that's right Dmbrandon not since July 3rd 2009"

I didn't enjoy the other fighting game commentary (made it worse cus it took over Melee doubles :'( ), I don't know which game they where on but. "INFERNO .... INFERNO... haha oh another INFERNO". Alukard got THIRD place in that game though, that's so radically crazy.

 

[Mekos]

I have to agree. For example, u didn't know who X's brother was and made him seem like a trash player to the outside world just cuz u hadn't heard of him before that during Fow and I's dubs match against them.

But I must say I admire u admitted that u were wrong and Apologized. I accept it.

 

[Rubyiris]

As a Melee player, I loved Pierce calling people out on making stupid ****ing decisions, and **** the haters who don't like him being blunt.

Grow a pair, children.

 

[KoJ]

I didn't enjoy the other fighting game commentary (made it worse cus it took over Melee doubles :'( ), I don't know which game they where on but. "INFERNO .... INFERNO... haha oh another INFERNO". Alukard got THIRD place in that game though, that's so radically crazy.

Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3. It's very fun, but only if you're willing to accept the most over-the-top cheap crap.

The Inferno mic-spam annoyed me too. It's like they were just trying to imitate the BIONIC ARM!!! hype from Final Round XIV, but that only worked the first time because it was fresh and because the entire setup was perfect. Unfortunately, this seems to be common; it's rare to not hear a commentator scream "BIONIC ARM!" when Spencer uses his super, and they're now spreading the love.

 

[theONEjanitor]

As a Melee player, I loved Pierce calling people out on making stupid ****ing decisions, and **** the haters who don't like him being blunt.

Grow a pair, children.

This.

If you **** up, you **** up. I was actually getting better at the game just from listening to Pierce's commentary. I don't really understand how being "tactful" would have be nearly as informative to be honest.

And tbh smash needs to realize that as long as Nintendo doesn't acknowledge us we are never going to be legit. We need to embrace our grassroots foundation and stop trying to be something we're not. its why we couldn't last in MLG. we're too laid back. we split the pot and help our friends win matches and eat sandwiches on stream. THAT'S JUST HOW WE DO IN SMASH COMMUNITY. **** trying to impress other communities. APEX is our tournament lol

 

[Zankoku]

While I agree that losing our personality shouldn't be necessary to become great, I don't like the other part of your post. I want to see the Smash community grow. Opening up to the sibling competitive community that is the FGC is potentially a big part of that. That's not going to happen by getting even more exclusive by the year and saying "**** everyone else, we play Smash".

 

[theONEjanitor]

TBH we've been growing fine without selling out so far.
and I'm not saying "be exclusive". our inclusiveness is one of our biggest strengths as a community.
Smash is bigger than the FGC by a long shot. Not only is the game more accessible, but the community is bigger. But they're more "legit" and have more "sponsors", and their "video game developers actually acknowledge them" so we envy them and want to be like them. I'm saying we don't have to pander to them. We're a unique community and we should embrace that.

The only thing I envy about the FGC is they have more legit players (proportionally), and they are much better about teaching each other the metagame (which is due in large part to their ability to play online much easier [and also probably because their games are easier to get good at]), but i digress.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I honestly don't think it will matter how professional and clean we present our game, it will never be seen as a legitimate competitive game in the eyes of the mainstream Fighting Game scene, just like BB, GG, or MB are just seen as "Weeaboo F****t" games to them.

 

[TattleStory]

It's these exact types of Smash-mouths who made Nintendo of America shut down "My Nintendo Forums" and replace it 3 years later with forums specifically for game help and system troubleshooting...
I was there, Brawl info was pouring every midnight on the official website, and I chatted away on the forums until the updates, eventually reading the Japanese area to get my info earlier...
I was THE person to come up with the abbreviation "AT" for Assist Trophies... Exactly 2 minutes after ATs were announced to the world... But the worst was in the character discussion thread...
As a result, there is no character wishlist thread on this site, which is sad, because nobody has a place to discuss wanted characters, & I actually wrote down a sensible list of around 50 characters for a roster, I do have 4 Pokemon ideas that are out there: Meowth, Pichu Bros. Charizard by itself... I decided Pokemon Ranger would be a better AT... And my most obscure 3rd Party addition was Carmen Sandiego, who would be unlockable in Wi-Fi modes only, almost unobtainable, and only possible to unlock in Japanese games if a player (usually from another region) that unlocked her is encountered... (She's actually been eligible to be in the new Smash games since last month)

 

[Zankoku]

Uh... from what I remember, the AT abbreviation is much more commonly applied to "advanced techniques", and it's really not that difficult to take the first letter of each word and fit it into an acronym.

 

[-Cross-]

It's these exact types of Smash-mouths who made Nintendo of America shut down "My Nintendo Forums" and replace it 3 years later with forums specifically for game help and system troubleshooting...
I was there, Brawl info was pouring every midnight on the official website, and I chatted away on the forums until the updates, eventually reading the Japanese area to get my info earlier...
I was THE person to come up with the abbreviation "AT" for Assist Trophies... Exactly 2 minutes after ATs were announced to the world... But the worst was in the character discussion thread...
As a result, there is no character wishlist thread on this site, which is sad, because nobody has a place to discuss wanted characters, & I actually wrote down a sensible list of around 50 characters for a roster, I do have 4 Pokemon ideas that are out there: Meowth, Pichu Bros. Charizard by itself... I decided Pokemon Ranger would be a better AT... And my most obscure 3rd Party addition was Carmen Sandiego, who would be unlockable in Wi-Fi modes only, almost unobtainable, and only possible to unlock in Japanese games if a player (usually from another region) that unlocked her is encountered... (She's actually been eligible to be in the new Smash games since last month)

Real talk this man is a legend. Somebody get him his AT.