I'm disgusted

[Ryan-K]

Outside communities such as the fighting game community at large will never take the smash scene seriously so I don't understand who are we trying to impress here?

 

[TL?]

Outside communities such as the fighting game community at large will never take the smash scene seriously so I don't understand who are we trying to impress here?

New players? I'm pretty sure everyone who would ever like the smash scene isn't already involved in it.

 

[Jellyfishn]

I have to agree. For example, u didn't know who X's brother was and made him seem like a trash player to the outside world just cuz u hadn't heard of him before that during Fow and I's dubs match against them.

But I must say I admire u admitted that u were wrong and Apologized. I accept it.

yeah Lada is good(He's actually in my avatar lol). When X was in Utah Lada was like 3rd in the state after X and Yaz(MK).

 

[Fierce Deku]

I wasn't there for the whole stream, and can't say I'm especially familiar with the whole Pierce situation, but it sounds like he's a good commentator who made one very bad prolonged mistake while in a stressful situation, and he did the right thing by standing up and apologizing for it (very publicly). It seems to me like this is not a mistake he would allow himself to repeat, and I encourage him to get back into commentating at some point in the future.

I have to admit I was kind of disappointed in the commentators during the Melee finals. I know most Melee fans did not want to watch a keep away game/time outs, but it's a commentator's job to keep things interesting and keep the hype up. It was the Grand Finals of Apex, that's not the time to be complaining at length about the way the match is being played.

While it definitely would be more professional to not eat on camera, I can't hold it against anyone too much if they're doing it during a long stretch of no matches being piped to the stream, though some sort of verbal update on things would of course be much better. Overall I definitely enjoyed everything I watched on the Apex stream, but it was pretty clear at a few points that some of the commentators got tired and lost sight of what commentators are supposed to do. No offense intended, commentating when you've been getting no sleep and working at a tournament that long is a tough job.

 

[AlphaZealot]

New players? I'm pretty sure everyone who would ever like the smash scene isn't already involved in it.

See your 2008 join date? Someone in 2007 is laughing at your comment.

hundreds join Smashboards every single month. We've gained 40,000 members in the last 2 years.

 

[theONEjanitor]

So we get 20,000 people interested in competitive smash every year, our majors literally top each other every time

yet we're trying to impress people who don't take us seriously to begin with

by forsaking the humor and laidbackness that MAKES people interested in the community to begin with

kk

look i understand that at certain points pierce was just tired and mean-spirited on stream, but the MAJORITY of his commentary was just entertaining, light hearted, and very informative. I just watched the ally/zero stream again, and seriously its not even bad whatsoever. It's funny and informative, if anything. If THAT is considered bad commentary to you guys, you need to seriously, as one commenter put it, "grow a pair".

 

[AlphaZealot]

look i understand that at certain points pierce was just tired and mean-spirited on stream, but the MAJORITY of his commentary was just entertaining, light hearted, and very informative.

Pierce has the potential to be good because he has great knowledge. However there were matches or minutes at a time when all I heard from him was "WHYYYY", and, again, it isn't just him, every Smash commentator can use work. When you watch commentary in other games you will see what I am talking about. I'm not saying commentators have to give up personality - but they do have a specific job which is to talk about the match that is going on.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I just wish I knew what I was talking about. Then I'd be a good commentator. Give me a year, guys.

 

[Exdeath]

Pierce has the potential to be good because he has great knowledge. However there were matches or minutes at a time when all I heard from him was "WHYYYY", and, again, it isn't just him, every Smash commentator can use work. When you watch commentary in other games you will see what I am talking about. I'm not saying commentators have to give up personality - but they do have a specific job which is to talk about the match that is going on.

While Pierce is a competent commentator, Pierce's knowledge is over-stated (primarily by himself).

 

[commonyoshi]

I think that Pierce's commentary was just fine. People should be taking notes instead of complaining.

See your 2008 join date? Someone in 2007 is laughing at your comment.

hundreds join Smashboards every single month. We've gained 40,000 members in the last 2 years.

Lol, some dumb mod banned my friend after just oooone post. Not very welcoming to new players.

Not that I dont approve because he's a scrub anyways.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

So am I a bad person for watching the Brawl stream solely to hear Pierce's commentary?

Like do you know how hard it is for me to watch Brawl. I can't do it. My mind literally melts.

And yet this man was able to keep me entertained.

I thought he did a fantastic job. I actually think he is one of the best commentators that we have. Though I guess I didn't get offended when he called out Brawlers cause I don't know/respect them. Outside of that criticism, which he can improve on, I don't see how he was anything other than A+ material.

 

[JesusSmashesPuffs]

So am I a bad person for watching the Brawl stream solely to hear Pierce's commentary?

Like do you know how hard it is for me to watch Brawl. I can't do it. My mind literally melts.

And yet this man was able to keep me entertained.

I thought he did a fantastic job. I actually think he is one of the best commentators that we have. Though I guess I didn't get offended when he called out Brawlers cause I don't know/respect them. Outside of that criticism, which he can improve on, I don't see how he was anything other than A+ material.

I could not agree more with every part of this. Pierce really impressed me.

 

[Nike.]

Can someone link a few videos of other fighter games that have perfect commentary?
I'm curious since appearently they have high quality commentators.

 

[Ryan-K]

"Serious commentary" is a farce to begin with because the smash community isn't primarily like that to begin with....if you're trying to use that sort of thing as a first impression it's at best deceptive because that's not how the smash community is AT ALL.

-looks at 2003 join date- lol

 

[Djent]

Smash is bigger than the FGC by a long shot.

Let me know when "Smash's EVO" breaks 1,500 entrants for *any* game.

 

[Jellyfishn]

I thought he did a fantastic job. I actually think he is one of the best commentators that we have. Though I guess I didn't get offended when he called out Brawlers cause I don't know/respect them. Outside of that criticism, which he can improve on, I don't see how he was anything other than A+ material.

Am I really reading this? It caused Peirce himself to regret and apologize to everyone, at the event, AND on the boards......If there was no problem with his commentary he would be proud of it, not admitting he really screwed up. Most of his commentary was one-sided, biased, opinions and he ripped on people. He is a great smash player and I am sure a great person, but he messed up.....'Nuff said.

 

[Strong Badam]

LOL i remember a video from the MLG days of Hugs commentating about how awesome his food was

Anyone please link it if you remember which video it was plz

lol that one where he starts eating a slim jim

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

God this community is stupid sometimes.

So, what, is Pierce gonna get ostracized from commentary now? You know, the first guy who made me, a Melee player, actually find Brawl watchable?

All this professionalism bull**** is undermining the appeal of our community...suppressing personalities gets us nowhere...

You have a situation now where guys like Waffle and Phil don't even want to commentate anymore cause of criticism, and they brought THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of players into the community. People criticize every little thing. Lovage was getting made fun of for saying "OH!" too much ffs.

Everybody is so critical and we don't know how to celebrate our own accomplishments. We just had the biggest smash event and stream ever...and Alex, DM, prog, Pierce are all apologizing for it. Jesus christ.

Whatever, you kids can do whatever you want. I don't even play Brawl. But this whole ordeal seems like a mistake to me.

 

[Jonas]

Let me know when "Smash's EVO" breaks 1,500 entrants for *any* game.

His statement is technically true. He didn't say anything about the "Smash community" or "competitive Smash." Smash is the most popular fighting game in this console generation

If he did mean the Smash community, I'd like to see his source lol.

EDIT: Oh he actually did say the community was bigger. Wtf.

 

[JesusSmashesPuffs]

Melee community: Commentator messes up on stream and apologizes for it. Response: "It's okay, man", "We still love you", etc.

Brawl community: Commentator messes up on stream and apologizes for it. Response: "OMFG HE RUINED APEX I'M SO DISGUSTED HOW DARE HE POINT OUT PLAYERS' MISTAKES."

Guess which response makes people want to keep working for you?

 

[Rubyiris]

pierce was amazing commentary.

 

[Gea]

Melee community: Commentator messes up on stream and apologizes for it. Response: "It's okay, man", "We still love you", etc.

Brawl community: Commentator messes up on stream and apologizes for it. Response: "OMFG HE RUINED APEX I'M SO DISGUSTED HOW DARE HE POINT OUT PLAYERS' MISTAKES."

Guess which response makes people want to keep working for you?

As far as I can tell, it's because Prog was making bad jokes, not outright hating on players because they weren't as skilled as he would have liked. There is a difference. Yes, both could be offensive, but one was a more general statement and the other was outright being disrespectful towards specific players in the community.

The people saying they liked Pierce's comments tend to be acknowledging that he was hating on players and that is what they enjoyed about it. Do you think that saying bad things about players is good for the community?

If you're cool with someone, fine, trash talk. Off the mic. If you aren't even playing the game and you are hating on players you don't know? You probably need to keep that sort of thing to yourself, not get on a mic and share with the world.

And in Pierce's defense, he isn't the only player to do this kind of thing on livestreams. ESAM has definitely done it before (not at Apex), and I am sure there are many others. Pierce also wasn't the only commentator at that time and while he may have been the most vocal, he isn't the only person up there to blame.

If anyone repped the community well with their commentating it was Dogysamich.

 

[TL?]

See your 2008 join date? Someone in 2007 is laughing at your comment.

hundreds join Smashboards every single month. We've gained 40,000 members in the last 2 years.

Perhaps my post was worded strangely. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. Ryan-K asks who is worth impressing with good commentary. I say newer players. There exist people who would like the smash community who are not currently part of it. Good commentary draws more of those people in.

 

[JesusSmashesPuffs]

As far as I can tell, it's because Prog was making bad jokes, not outright hating on players because they weren't as skilled as he would have liked. There is a difference. Yes, both could be offensive, but one was a more general statement and the other was outright being disrespectful towards specific players in the community.

The people saying they liked Pierce's comments tend to be acknowledging that he was hating on players and that is what they enjoyed about it. Do you think that saying bad things about players is good for the community?

If you're cool with someone, fine, trash talk. Off the mic. If you aren't even playing the game and you are hating on players you don't know? You probably need to keep that sort of thing to yourself, not get on a mic and share with the world.

And in Pierce's defense, he isn't the only player to do this kind of thing on livestreams. ESAM has definitely done it before (not at Apex), and I am sure there are many others. Pierce also wasn't the only commentator at that time and while he may have been the most vocal, he isn't the only person up there to blame.

If anyone repped the community well with their commentating it was Dogysamich.

I didn't watch much of Brawl, so it's quite likely that I'm in the wrong here, but when did he "hate" on anybody? The worst I heard was him saying a player was making stupid decisions, which, though probably rude, is accurate and (to me) does not indicate antipathy. For example, I remember him saying about Ally something along the lines of "Why are you messing up these tricks, you invented them!" I won't defend the "Whyyyyyy?"s, but only because they were unhelpful, not because they were rude.

I'll agree that Dogy was legit, except for when he said "If you don't think smash is a fighting game, that's okay." Come on, Dogy, you're the lead event at the Road to Evo. Have some pride.

 

[Dastrn]

Pierce was mildly bad. Prog was awful. I was SOOO glad when they finally muted his mic.

 

[VietGeek]

I'll agree that Dogy was legit, except for when he said "If you don't think smash is a fighting game, that's okay." Come on, Dogy, you're the lead event at the Road to Evo. Have some pride.

Nah, it was legit. The argument over semantics and technicalities involved in discerning whether "Smash is a fighting game" or not is utter nonsense. Even if a consensus is reached, it has no effect on what the "FGC" or Smash community does.

Most of the "fighting game community" has never played a game that doesn't have "CAPCOM" on the box competently and most of the Smash community has never played any traditional fighting game competently. The people who take this argument of genre classification "seriously" aren't exactly the most tolerant or educated group to begin with. Just saying.

Dogy basically said (IIRC) that it doesn't matter what the hell you think Smash is. True pride in one's game comes from continual support for your game and its community regardless of what others think. Raise above the stream sheep.

obv

 

[Gea]

I didn't watch much of Brawl, so it's quite likely that I'm in the wrong here, but when did he "hate" on anybody?

It was a lot of small remarks over a long period of time (along with a really sarcastic attitude like Great punish there, you're a great player but I found an uploaded match where you can see some of the comments in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qtt1Q_WR_M

If you don't see a problem with this commentary, I don't know what to tell you. Especially when there are such gold nuggets as, "I think [the player's] whole objective is to piss me off" "If you have bad DI, at least have bad enough DI so you will die" and "I wonder if he'd money match me? Nah he knows who I am probably" and "He is so bad if I hadn't quit this game already I would quit after seeing him"

 

[Djent]

VietGeek is right. I mean, I never understood why people think "Fighting Games" are bound by different rules than other genres. We have no problem talking about Sandbox RPGs or Survival-Horror Shooters, but when it comes to Smash, it's either a "Fighting Game" or a "Party Game." I think it's probably best to talk about Smash as a blend of several genres, instead of trying to pigeonhole it into some absolute category that doesn't fit perfectly.

Anywayyy...now that Pierce has apologized, I think it's only fair that he gets more opportunities to commentate. Even those who were deeply offended by what he said can probably think of times in their lives where stressful situations influenced their own behavior negatively. This shouldn't be about "ostracizing" Pierce - other people have done *much* worse things and still remain in this community. This outcome is probably still frustrating to those who actually *liked* Pierce's commentary. Yet if Pierce himself wasn't happy with it, it's not like it was meant to last anyway. There's no reason this minor incident has to get in the way of his greater importance to the community.

 

[Gea]

For those looking for Hugo's commentary, it's part of this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQg-Vt9v5x0

It makes me laugh every goddamn time.

 

[JesusSmashesPuffs]

It was a lot of small remarks over a long period of time (along with a really sarcastic attitude like Great punish there, you're a great player but I found an uploaded match where you can see some of the comments in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qtt1Q_WR_M

If you don't see a problem with this commentary, I don't know what to tell you. Especially when there are such gold nuggets as, "I think [the player's] whole objective is to piss me off" "If you have bad DI, at least have bad enough DI so you will die" and "I wonder if he'd money match me? Nah he knows who I am probably" and "He is so bad if I hadn't quit this game already I would quit after seeing him"

I mean... I do think this is really funny commentary, but I understand it's probably inappropriate for a national stream. I guess if Pierce thinks it was worth apologizing for and has, I have no right to make excuses for him. I just really hope he doesn't let this discourage him from commentating in the future.

 

[JesusSmashesPuffs]

Also, it sounded like he was purposely exaggerating their flaws for the sake of keeping things interesting; sounds a lot like Prog during the crew battle, and I appreciate both their efforts.

 

[Damittom]

It was a lot of small remarks over a long period of time (along with a really sarcastic attitude like Great punish there, you're a great player but I found an uploaded match where you can see some of the comments in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qtt1Q_WR_M

If you don't see a problem with this commentary, I don't know what to tell you. Especially when there are such gold nuggets as, "I think [the player's] whole objective is to piss me off" "If you have bad DI, at least have bad enough DI so you will die" and "I wonder if he'd money match me? Nah he knows who I am probably" and "He is so bad if I hadn't quit this game already I would quit after seeing him"

Seriously I'm glad I turned the stream off before this point I was already fed up and who ever the other commentator was Gunblade (I think) was also just feeding Pierce therefore I think both were to blame and should be permanently banned from commentary. As an average player (I've gone to tourneys but never topped) Would hate to play with these two commentating.

Their behavior is inexcusable.

Edit: but seriously do respect Pierce for apologizing

I joined this game's competitive seen because of the community (much more welcoming and accepting than other competitive communities) However, this has seriously weakened my respect for this community.

 

[Exdeath]

Seriously I'm glad I turned the stream off before this point I was already fed up and who ever the other commentator was Gunblade (I think) was also just feeding Pierce therefore I think both were to blame and should be permanently banned from commentary. As an average player (I've gone to tourneys but never topped) Would hate to play with these two commentating.

Their behavior is inexcusable.

Edit: but seriously do respect Pierce for apologizing

I joined this game's competitive seen because of the community (much more welcoming and accepting than other competitive communities) However, this has seriously weakened my respect for this community.

Pierce is a good commentator and should certainly not be banned from commentating just because of one poor instance of commentating.

 

[GDX]

wish i was given a chance to commentary

I thought I did a good job at WHOBO3 and genesis 2...but oh well. Maybe in the future

 

[theeboredone]

Read through a lot of this and I'd like to say a few things.

First of all, it's safe to say that the universal approach to commentary is to be objective and non-biased to the best of your ability. Even "color commentators" remain objective, but still find ways to hype up the situation when a "big play" happens. I've streamed a lot of basketball and football games. Some local city commentators will be extremely biased, and as a fan for the opposing team, it's difficult to watch. However, you can also say, it's meant for the local audience, hence the bias. However, I still find the neutral ones to be the best. As far as those who want to put your own opinions in, that job is called "analyst." Perhaps have a section later on the stream where people talk about the events that went on during the day and show "highlights." However, you still have to be well mannered. You can't just say "WHY?!". It's all about connotation, as something like "That wasn't a very good move." would sound more applicable.

So with that being said, is this the direction the Smash community wants to go in when it comes to commentary? What is the objective? Is the goal to lure in more viewers? Then I would say it's better to go with the first paragraph approach. If the goal is to provide entertainment to the Smash regulars, then you are better off teasing, joking, and doing what you want on stream.

I didn't watch the stream, but assuming more people were displeased with Pierce's commentary than those who were not, he made a great call in apologizing up front. If more people are being turned off from people not being objective and not commentating well, and the goal is to lure a bigger audience, you gotta go with what's better for the tournament, stream, and everything else Smash related.

So just because YOU enjoyed someone's commentary...that doesn't mean the other 100 people did either. Sometimes, you gotta put your own beliefs aside and think of the betterment for the Smash community.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Kinzer]

So, what, is Pierce gonna get ostracized from commentary now? You know, the first guy who made me, a Melee player, actually find Brawl watchable?

Everybody is so critical and we don't know how to celebrate our own accomplishments. We just had the biggest smash event and stream ever...and Alex, DM, prog, Pierce are all apologizing for it. Jesus christ.

Whatever, you kids can do whatever you want. I don't even play Brawl. But this whole ordeal seems like a mistake to me.

I'm gonna tolerate the @#$% outta you bro. (God I wish this response-macro wasn't associated with ponies.)

Humility is nice.

And I'm sure one person, who can't even bear to watch it otherwise because he can't so much as see why others appreciate without having commentary that shares his prejudiced opinion of the game/the players who play it, isn't that big of a loss. ~_~ *Ahem.* No but really though, I'm sure Pierce is only getting heat from people who aren't already in the commu-

Oh, that last point was covered for me. Dammit.

Anyway commentary shouldn't make or break the quality of the matches themselves. If it's so bad, what's stopping you from muting it and playing songs from your Music player?

Brawl doesn't seem to be your thing, and you are only somewhat better than the people who do this kind of crap for the sake of it. I dunno... at least you admit it (the game) is not your thing? I'm sorry, nothing I can think of ATM to put this in a more light-hearted manner. "It's not cool."

Brawl community: Commentator messes up on stream and apologizes for it. Response: "OMFG HE RUINED APEX I'M SO DISGUSTED HOW DARE HE POINT OUT PLAYERS' MISTAKES."

Guess which response makes people want to keep working for you?

Uh, you do realize the only people who put Pierce on blast are those who aren't familiar with natural human traits/weaknesses aren't acquainted with him, yes? That means all the stream monsters and everyone not apart of this community (Yet?), and there just so happened to be a lot of them at Apex. Could you please refer to me one instance where a Melee-based stream gets this kind of trash from the FGC?

... Wait no, hold that thought. Somebody actually did post a video in this thread that shows the "quality commentary" all the way from the old MLG days when a commentator was eating a SlimJim.

Awesome, it's good to know that both community have their fair share of douchebags (and good people).

Because afterall, they (FGC) don't care about the difference.

Why are you/we playing a stupid children's game? One's just four year's in the making, the other's an ancient dinosaur that probably should've gone extinct a few years ago. If it hasn't, it's long overdue and will probably meet that fate pretty soon anyway. /sarcasm.

The people saying they liked Pierce's comments tend to be acknowledging that he was hating on players and that is what they enjoyed about it. Do you think that saying bad things about players is good for the community?

If you're cool with someone, fine, trash talk. Off the mic. If you aren't even playing the game and you are hating on players you don't know? You probably need to keep that sort of thing to yourself, not get on a mic and share with the world.

And in Pierce's defense, he isn't the only player to do this kind of thing on livestreams. ESAM has definitely done it before (not at Apex), and I am sure there are many others. Pierce also wasn't the only commentator at that time and while he may have been the most vocal, he isn't the only person up there to blame.

If anyone repped the community well with their commentating it was Dogysamich.

This. All of this.

 

[GimR]

I felt bad for Pierce because I knew he was having an off day.

 

[Tesh]

I liked the Melee commentary alot more. For one thing, during the earlier part of the day, I noticed one of the guys had a notebook with information about many of the players so he didn't look like a complete idiot when someone less known showed up and it helped him fill the less interesting gaps with someone other than "I would have..." comments. As for what Prog did late, it was just a really boring joke that got old fast. There is a good reason people weren't that mad at him.

Despite Pierce maybe having a legitimate excuse, being awake all that time, I'm surprised he wasn't prepared to do the one thing he was expected to do. Big tournaments always run late and I know he wasn't the only person disappointed with some of the least anticipated or hyped matches being shown on stream, but its also no surprise that people expected better.

To the people saying "grow a pair" and that his commentary was "laid back", I think you must be very easily amused or you didn't hear much of the commentary. I love humorous commentary, because I usually don't need an informative play-by-play explanation of whats going on, but making the same bad, stale jokes over and over while being extremely disrespectful isn't something we should encourage or congratulate. Anyone who pretends its not possible to do a MUCH better job needs to listen to commentary from other games and sports. You can be funny and informative. You can even call people out on making bad moves. But, it can be done alot better than that.

Personally I don't see whats so impressive about him apologizing the next day either. Its not like after being awake 16+ hours you forget what kind of behavior is offensive/rude and if people hadn't complained he probably would have been back the next day proud to mock the top 8. Seems like he is getting more credit for that than the people that didn't screw up in the first place.

In any case, its just another reason the Brawl (if outsiders will make the distinction between Brawl and Melee communities) community looks worse to the people Apex was apparently supposed to impress.

 

[Ryan-K]

ITT: Overreaction for dummies.

 

[Roller]

I just wish I knew what I was talking about. Then I'd be a good commentator. Give me a year, guys.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I listen to Directional Influence, and your voice is too monotone. All the time. Your first goal should be to work on adding more enthusiasm and character to your radio voice (or whatever you want to call it). I know you are passionate about the game; try to bring that passion into your speech itself, instead of just the topics.

I do like the show though, and hope it continues for as long as you enjoy doing it.