Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

[Kinzer]

Some of us still are.

 

[XACE-K]

Some of us still are.

Gee, I wonder who?

Spoiler

Yes, I talking about you Kinzer. lolololololololololololol......jk

But it's pretty obvious who the dumb people are.

 

[doom dragon 105]

You forgot to add how Lacarios jabs **** Ike's jab, -_- out ranges yours

 

[Kinzer]

Your moves explanations, SHOW THEM TO ME!

 

[XACE-K]

Your moves explanations, SHOW THEM TO ME!

They outrange them. That's how they **** his. But I'm not sure on the speed though.

 

[YagamiLight]

You forgot to add how Lacarios jabs **** Ike's jab, -_- out ranges yours

...

...

...

Ike's jab is better than Lucario's.

 

[Kinzer]

Maybe we're worshipping the Jab too much...?

...

...

...

NAH! I still kind of doubt that anybody even has a jab comparable, let alone above Ike's, however I can be persuaded if anybody is reading this.

In other news, can you give us a sneak peek of the MAMA MR. L WEEGEE! pic Light, or tell us how's the T.link write-up coming along?

 

[YagamiLight]

In other news, can you give us a sneak peek of the MAMA MR. L WEEGEE! pic Light, or tell us how's the T.link write-up coming along?

Who says I can't do both?

1) http://petogi.deviantart.com/art/Luigi-El-Grito-64595407

2) I lost about a paragraph when I shut my computer down and totally forgot to save, but that shouldn't take long to replace, write-up is still planned for today.

 

[Kinzer]

Scary...but I guess it won't matter to anybody (particularly the Weegees) Because we are apparently going to work with Weegee on Theorycraft.

(Are we REALLY going to invite the Weegees into this thread since now there's a huge debate somewhere else which is right now taking up a lot of space? I mean c'mon, the Lucarios [or rather Timbers, he was the only one who actually bothered to make any intellectual posts] were quite demanding, we don't need that again with another character...)

 

[HeroMystic]

^The only reason why it's bad is because they won't STFU about the fireball.

After we get past the whole fireball thing, it'll be fine.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Then everyone should be upfront, and tell them their fireball is not a real advantage in this match-up. It's too slow, too linear, we can jab through it, we can Ftilt through it and hit Luigi if he's too close, and any amount of advantage from the fireball is countered by our grab release on Luigi.

 

[Kinzer]

We are trying to tell them, but they are about as arrogant as the Lucarios...the only difference is Luigi has no real clear advantage over Ike if any, and the Lucarios though quite "angry" were right on their points.

 

[XACE-K]

Then everyone should be upfront, and tell them their fireball is not a real advantage in this match-up. It's too slow, too linear, we can jab through it, we can Ftilt through it and hit Luigi if he's too close, and any amount of advantage from the fireball is countered by our grab release on Luigi.

We've tried and it hasn't worked. I just hope they don't think a stupid fireball would give them a 100:0 advantage.

Spoiler

At least Lucario can charge his AS so it is more useful.

 

[Kinzer]

Not only chargable, but it's a projectile that can actually KILL.

 

[YagamiLight]

Then everyone should be upfront, and tell them their fireball is not a real advantage in this match-up. It's too slow, too linear, we can jab through it, we can Ftilt through it and hit Luigi if he's too close, and any amount of advantage from the fireball is countered by our grab release on Luigi.

I was upfront and went ahead and told them that most of them were fools for thinking the fireball is any good at all, but who knows if they listened?

Speaking of grab releases, the hype appears to have died down on Ike's best meta game advance, something that nudges several match-up ratios towards Ike's side (Looks at Ike's grab releases on Wario then tell me with a straight face that it's Wario's advantage or even). That makes me very sad.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Scary...but I guess it won't matter to anybody (particularly the Weegees) Because we are apparently going to work with Weegee on Theorycraft.

(Are we REALLY going to invite the Weegees into this thread since now there's a huge debate somewhere else which is right now taking up a lot of space? I mean c'mon, the Lucarios [or rather Timbers, he was the only one who actually bothered to make any intellectual posts] were quite demanding, we don't need that again with another character...)

Oh sweet Jestus, do you remember dguy? Now there's a person whom I actually look good compared to.

 

[Barge]

Is this a TL discussion?

 

[YagamiLight]

Is this a TL discussion?

It WAS a TL discussion. You're a tad late to the party as the write-up is close to being done.

 

[HeroMystic]

Is this a TL discussion?

We had the discussion awhile back, but it eventually died down.

However, we don't mind if you want to add anything. Just read a few pages back and see if it was covered. It lasted for about four pages.

 

[Barge]

Sasuke pretty much covered it all
Lol @ the argument on TL not being able to spike Ike out of aether

 

[HeroMystic]

^Yeah, that was pretty depressing.

Come back a bit later when the guide about TL is up. If anything is missing from it, don't hesitate to call it out.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Sasuke pretty much covered it all
Lol @ the argument on TL not being able to spike Ike out of aether

I was being stupid there, but I just didn't know.

<_<

>_>

You live in San Diego too?

WHERE!?!

Sorry about the overreaction, but I haven't had an offline Brawl in months now. And I'm jonesing.

 

[XACE-K]

Speaking of grab releases, the hype appears to have died down on Ike's best meta game advance, something that nudges several match-up ratios towards Ike's side (Looks at Ike's grab releases on Wario then tell me with a straight face that it's Wario's advantage or even). That makes me very sad.

Yes, that is a good thing for Ike and it will help Ike do better in some match-ups but Ike having an advantage aginst a lot more people now? I don't think so.

Sasuke pretty much covered it all
Lol @ the argument on TL not being able to spike Ike out of aether

Yeah, we have our fair share of stupid things said.

 

[Barge]

I was being stupid there, but I just didn't know.

<_<

>_>

You live in San Diego too?

WHERE!?!

Sorry about the overreaction, but I haven't had an offline Brawl in months now. And I'm jonesing.

Serra Mesa, about 5 minutes from Kearny and 15 from Clairemont, I don't go to the Chula Vista Bi-weeklys though, I want to. Maybe in a year or so (if they're still going)

 

[YagamiLight]

Yes, that is a good thing for Ike and it will help Ike do better in some match-ups but Ike having an advantage aginst a lot more people now? I don't think so.

Free fairs is a bad thing? Free Aethers? A REGRAB?!

I suggest you *poke* and all your family *poke* get to testing those grab releases with question marks *poke poke*.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Serra Mesa, about 5 minutes from Kearny and 15 from Clairemont, I don't go to the Chula Vista Bi-weeklys though, I want to. Maybe in a year or so (if they're still going)

**** YEAH SEAKING!!!!

Sorry 'bout that, I don't get excited very often.

<_<

>_>

I live in Clairemont. Near the golf course.

 

[XACE-K]

Free fairs is a bad thing? Free Aethers? A REGRAB?!

I suggest you *poke and all your family *poke* get to testing those grab releases with question marks *poke poke*.

I've already tried these in practice but in actual matches yet. My friend is having a small tourney at his house so I'll try there.

 

[YagamiLight]

Enjoy, Luigi.

Now that this is up, go on and test those grab releases, people! It doesn't look too fancy if there's a whole bunch of (?)'s flying around all over the place.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I do not look forward to this discussion. Some luigi's just seem as bad as lucario.

Also today I killed my friends lucario off FD with Fair at 88% after I used it once to get him off in the first place.

edit: I'm going to just argue that those work until the luigis disprove them. If they want this in there advantage they should want Ike to have as few follow ups as possible.

 

[Asdioh]

I just read the first page because I've been playing Ike for a long time now, but I've been solely using Kirby on the Allisbrawl ladder. However, I found that Marth is just TOO GOOD against Kirby, and I do much better with Ike.

This is a good guide, thanks ^_^

Out of the 4 characters I play the most (Kirby, Captain Falcon, Toon Link, Ike) my Ike seems to be the strongest against Marth, so I'm gonna use him, even if people tell me Marth should win the matchup >=(

What do you think, should I use Ike or Kirby against Snake? >_>

 

[SaltyKracka]

Um....I'd recommend Ike. Kirby gets absolutely destroyed by Snake's utilt. On the other hand, if you're any good at gimping, I'd suggest Kirbs.

 

[HeroMystic]

What do you think, should I use Ike or Kirby against Snake? >_>

Both Kirby and Ike do decently well against Snake. Kirby can beat Snake pretty well in the air, while Ike has the range to keep the match pretty close.

Use whoever you're most comfortable/skilled with. Once you fight Snake a few rounds with different characters you'll know which one is the right choice for you.

 

[Kinzer]

Out of the 4 characters I play the most (Kirby, Captain Falcon, Toon Link, Ike) my Ike seems to be the strongest against Marth, so I'm gonna use him, even if people tell me Marth should win the matchup >=(

Matchups should never shroud your hopes. No matter how bad the odds are, there is always a slim chance somewhere around, and it is always possible to overcome anything. I freaking love Ike for this kind of junk, he is so underrated by so many people and yet when I send bodies flying it's such a good feeling.

As for the Weegee discussion, I'll give my insight a little bit later.

Also inb4angryweegeemainschargein.

Edit: Also nobody should have to tell you who to use Vs. who, if you feel more comfortable with fighting Snake with Kirby than you do Ike, than by all means go for it. Unless you are practicing, then you should pick Ike.

 

[YagamiLight]

I do not look forward to this discussion. Some luigi's just seem as bad as lucario.

Luigi is in fact Lucario's younger brother. Or at least their boards are.

Also today I killed my friends lucario off FD with Fair at 88% after I used it once to get him off in the first place.

That pretty amazing, I can never seem to kill that early with it.

edit: I'm going to just argue that those work until the luigis disprove them. If they want this in there advantage they should want Ike to have as few follow ups as possible.

Yeah, let them disprove the grab release, though Ike doesn't need it to have the advantage.

What do you think, should I use Ike or Kirby against Snake? >_>

Kirby is actually very light, and against a powerhouse like Snake is not the guy I'd assign. That said, I think Ike goes perfectly neutral with Snake, so if you're confident with Ike, go ahead and choose him and see how it plays out.



Edit: HeroMystic, everybody with the exceptions of perhaps Lucas and Bowser beat outs out Snake in the air, heh.

 

[•Col•]

2 words: Eruption Edgeguard.

The Eruption edgeguard is probably the MOST effective against a Luigi... They use Side B and Down B to recover, which are easily stopped by Eruption. Even his Up B doesn't autosnap to the ledge, if I remember correctly... D:


Also, never get it front of Luigi's Side B. Anytime you do it'll be a malfunction and you'll die.

Spoiler

I have the worst luck ever. ;-;

 

[Barge]

This one luigi I plays always seems to land the super fire punches on heavy characters I play with.

Lol, so, as ike, watch out for the dtilt trip to fire punch

 

[M@v]

2 words: Eruption Edgeguard.

The Eruption edgeguard is probably the MOST effective against a Luigi... They use Side B and Down B to recover, which are easily stopped by Eruption. Even his Up B doesn't autosnap to the ledge, if I remember correctly... D:


Also, never get it front of Luigi's Side B. Anytime you do it'll be a malfunction and you'll die.

Spoiler

I have the worst luck ever. ;-;

No, thats just your bad luck. Luigi hates you....


Anyway, this is 6:4 Ike. Weegii may have the air, but you got everything else. Ike edgeguards luigi amazingly.

 

[HeroMystic]

Edit: HeroMystic, everybody with the exceptions of perhaps Lucas and Bowser beat outs out Snake in the air, heh.

Exactly, which is where Kirby excels in.

Not that the points you gave out aren't true. I just find it that if Kirby can keep the pressure up on Snake, he has a decent chance.

 

[Kinzer]

Hey Light, I have a few things I wanna ask about your guide.

One: At the headlining paragraph, you said something about how you would follow an order for the characters depending on their tourney representation. Does that still hold valid anymore?

Two: I DEMAND that this picture be put next to Falco!

Three: Uhm...let me come back to you on this, I'll edit it, because I forgot.

Edit: Oh yeah I remember, can you give Toon Link and advantage that tells people that he is somewhat "speedy"? I mean there's plenty of evidence to say that T.Link has a lot of quick attacks with very fast start-up, and even his most laggy move is his Fsmash, which is still fast to an extent.

 

[Asdioh]

Note: I'm mostly talking about wifi. In an offline tournament, I would probably go 100% Kiby.

Um....I'd recommend Ike. Kirby gets absolutely destroyed by Snake's utilt. On the other hand, if you're any good at gimping, I'd suggest Kirbs.

I'm pretty good at gimping, but against Snake, it takes a good deal of luck. He always recovers high, and though Kirby's a good jumper, he can't reach THAT high.

Both Kirby and Ike do decently well against Snake. Kirby can beat Snake pretty well in the air, while Ike has the range to keep the match pretty close.

Use whoever you're most comfortable/skilled with. Once you fight Snake a few rounds with different characters you'll know which one is the right choice for you.

No matter how much I kick Snake's *** with Kirby, a few tilts, grenades, and an uptilt kill me. He also survives FOREVER, which is why I'm thinking Ike might be a good choice.

Matchups should never shroud your hopes. No matter how bad the odds are, there is always a slim chance somewhere around, and it is always possible to overcome anything. I freaking love Ike for this kind of junk, he is so underrated by so many people and yet when I send bodies flying it's such a good feeling.

Edit: Also nobody should have to tell you who to use Vs. who, if you feel more comfortable with fighting Snake with Kirby than you do Ike, than by all means go for it. Unless you are practicing, then you should pick Ike.

I know, I don't care what people say about matchups. People say ROB beats Kirby, yet I have little trouble against good ROBs.

Marth however, is about 65:35 over Kirby, and from my experience, it's very true. I just can't beat his range, and I get punished for hitting him. I know to watch out for counter, but it's a pain to have Kirby's comboing ability gimped by Dolphin Slash. If I can predict it, I can punish it, but it's still annoying.

Dancing Blade, Fair camping, and Fsmash all destroy Kirby. That's where Ike's range comes in handy though :O

Kirby is actually very light, and against a powerhouse like Snake is not the guy I'd assign. That said, I think Ike goes perfectly neutral with Snake, so if you're confident with Ike, go ahead and choose him and see how it plays out.

Yeah, I thought Kirby's combo ability would help very well against Snake, but he's like Marth; he interrupts it by pulling out grenades. And like I said, uptilt is broken as hell.


As for how good I am with each character, I'd rate my Kirby about a 9 out of 10 (I'm not the best out there, but I can assure you I'm darn good) and I'd give my Ike about a 6-7. I have mostly used Ike in friendlies though, so I think with serious practice I can do well.

Thanks for the advice, Ike boards XD