Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

[YagamiLight]

About the Quick Draw: Although I said it, make sure you do it when Snake is busy with the Nikita, and half-charge it. If you don't, Snake can have a chance to charge up his Up-Smash which can spell doom.

EDIT: I honestly don't know how I forgot about that Up-Smash. x.x

Yeah, the write-up was kind of devoid of up smashes. In any case, I found a good picture of D3, so I guess I'll use that. After MK and Snake it kinda gets hazy as to the order anyways.

 

[Pk_Starstorm11]

I don't know people say Ike has a bad save but I dont think so. Instead of going up when don't you just go across with his b> or <b special? and since MetaKnight has no projectiles you should be able to save your self.

 

[YagamiLight]

I don't know people say Ike has a bad save but I dont think so. Instead of going up when don't you just go across with his b> or <b special? and since MetaKnight has no projectiles you should be able to save your self.

At first glance, the Side B appears to be a fantastic recovery, but it has one glaring flaw.

If you jump into it, Ike falls into a helpless state. Now that's not too bad if you're high above the stage, but when the Ike is lower down...-1 stock.

 

[Kirk]

Don't get grabbed.

Don't get hit by Bair.

Bait Waddle Dees...easy to powershield --> punish.

Spike his ***.

:D

 

[Bomber7]

Soooo.... Ike.... How do you feel now that a hurricane in the Gulf is named after you?

>.>

 

[Rykoshet]

Don't get grabbed.

Don't get hit by Bair.

Bait Waddle Dees...easy to powershield --> punish.

Spike his ***.

:D

Truth. If you do get grabbed do your best to autosnap out of down throw or throw aether immediately if he attempts to grab release you off the ledge. Jab cancel is one of the more mehish things to do if the dedede isnt completely ********, youll get grabbed like no tomorrow. Space out with tilts if possible, keep him stuck to his slower moves.

 

[XACE-K]

Soooo.... Ike.... How do you feel now that a hurricane in the Gulf is named after you?

>.>

Wrong thread?

Don't get grabbed.

Don't get hit by Bair.

Bait Waddle Dees...easy to powershield --> punish.

Spike his ***.

:D

Truth. If you do get grabbed do your best to autosnap out of down throw or throw aether immediately if he attempts to grab release you off the ledge. Jab cancel is one of the more mehish things to do if the dedede isnt completely ********, youll get grabbed like no tomorrow. Space out with tilts if possible, keep him stuck to his slower moves.

Both those things are what you need to do. Just play smart and you have a chance. DDD is one of Ike's hardest match-ups.

Also, are you picking the characters you review by going from top tier to bottom tier?

 

[YagamiLight]

Also, are you picking the characters you review by going from top tier to bottom tier?

I'm just going by general tourney placement order. My idea is that if the character is more popular, you're going to have to know what to do, as you'll be seeing them. That said, I'll do characters that aren't used as much, but still good (Toon Link and Zelda come to mind) rather soon as well. I'll probably put the Ike ditto somewhere soon as well.

 

[XACE-K]

I'm just going by general tourney placement order. My idea is that if the character is more popular, you're going to have to know what to do, as you'll be seeing them. That said, I'll do characters that aren't used as much, but still good (Toon Link and Zelda come to mind) rather soon as well. I'll probably put the Ike ditto somewhere soon as well.

Makes sense but why the Ike ditto? If you main Ike, I'm pretty sure you know you would know your own main's weaknesses but if you want to do that, fine by me.

 

[YagamiLight]

Makes sense but why the Ike ditto? If you main Ike, I'm pretty sure you know you would know your own main's weaknesses but if you want to do that, fine by me.

Sometimes you just get better at your own character if you know your weaknesses and how to exploit them. That way you can mask them better.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Hmm... off the top of my head the only thing that I can think off is get him to use his up B then charge up your Usmash, eruption, or Fsmash. He is in a very vulnerable position and usually if he is using it you can hit him far enough so that he has to use it again.

This is actually a very hard match up because DDD's grab range is huge and even with a well spaced Fair you can still get grabbed if he shields it.

 

[YagamiLight]

Hmm... off the top of my head the only thing that I can think off is get him to use his up B then charge up your Usmash, eruption, or Fsmash. He is in a very vulnerable position and usually if he is using it you can hit him far enough so that he has to use it again.

This is actually a very hard match up because DDD's grab range is huge and even with a well spaced Fair you can still get grabbed if he shields it.

I'd like to note that you could possibly use Quick Draw in the situation as well, it helps if you need to hit him fast, and it hits hard enough.

And I'll agree that this is no walk in the park match-up. If you might make a case for Meta Knight and Snake being skill determined (i.e. Neutral match-ups), you won't be able to do that with D3.

 

[JST]

DDD vs. Ike isn't very favorable imo. I'm just listing what I know from playing Ike, I don't know too much about Ike's advantages.

DDD outranges Ike in some instances, and with greater priority and speed too.

DDD's ground game > Ike's ground game because all of Ike's approaches are shield-grabbable. Ike's spacing has to be absolutely perfect. The only thing Ike has over DDD on the ground is AAA combo.

On top of that, DDD has a projectile to force Ike's approach. Even if they are easy to shield, they're very good meatshields and they do attack you if you stand around them for too long (Both Dees and Doos). On top of that, you might get an occasional Gordo which might catch you off-guard.

DDD also has two very quick ground pokes: Dtilt and Ftilt (Although Ike's AAA is a good bit faster, it's still something you might want to keep in mind). His Utilt is also a very, very good killer as it is very quick, and it has a retardedly huge, fairly long lasting hitbox. Ike will prolly die from this around 120%.

Also, DDD's spotdodge and roll are very quick. Coupled with that the shield > turnaround grab and shield grab are all very quick and have huge range. Ike will be hard-pressed to find an opening. If Ike isn't careful, he'll be taking huge damage because of DDD's CG+very powerful Fthrow and Bthrow.

Oh, and keep in mind the Inhale-Quick Draw glitch.

CG+Tech-chasing is just icing on the cake for DDD.

Although Ike's AAA is too good against a dumb DDD.



In the air, DDD also has an advantage, if he watches his spacing that is. DDD's bair is very fast, has a decently large hitbox, and tremendous priority to boot. His dair can stop Ike from pursuing him from below because it has ******** priority, a big, long-lasting hitbox, and it's disjointed to boot. His Fair and nair are situational though.

Ike can trade blows with DDD in the air tho. Ike's bair is especially good for getting DDD, but I think it's better saved as a kill move. I think Ike's fair has more range than DDD's bair, but DDD's bair is faster.


In the event Ike manages to get a hit in on DDD, DDD is in for a huge hurting. Although the same thing applies in reverse.


DDD is pretty good at gimping Ike, especially with a WoP right out of a chaingrab if the Ike isn't careful.

Also, Ike doesn't have as much trouble killing DDD as other characters do.

DDD's multijumps give him a very good recovery and better maneuverability in the air than Ike.

Ike's bair > DDD's



I'm just listing stuff off the top of my head. There's probably someone who'll list what Ike's advantages are since I'm not so knowedgable Ike.

 

[metroid1117]

I haven't read a lot of what's been said about D3, so pardon me if any of this is redundant.

In my opinion, this match-up is indeed weighted towards D3, but not as much as people make it out to be. Yes D3 has a projectile, a tremendous grab range, a very effective chaingrab, a great ground game, and excellent edgeguarding tools, but Ike can quickly rack up damage on D3 because of his weight and size and is one of the best characters to punish his recovery with.

NAir is a godsend in this match-up, it sets up for jab combos and grabs extremely well and has very little lag so it's a fairly safe move. From the D3 matches I've played, it's always total domination from one player or the other; this is a very momentum-based match-up. D3 can control the tide of the match very easily with his projectiles and chaingrab, but once you get a hit in, D3's size and weight work against him. It's much easier to hit him out of rolls, airdodges, and side-steps because of his size, the hitbox just has to touch his enourmous hurtbox right when invincibility ends and you've scored a hit.

FAir is amazing against D3 in the air, it outranges his FAir and either forces a dodge (which can be read and punished) or a jump in the opposite direction to avoid it. Depending on where you are, you can ground stalk him or even pressure him with the *occasional* Aether.

D3s will recover from below by either jumping up to the edge (which can be punished with walk-off DAir or DTilt) or up+B'ing; up+B is very easy for Ike to punish, just use USmash so that you cover both the stage and the edge.

D3's BAir is an amazing edgeguarding tool; you MUST mix up your recovery pattern depending on what he does. Alternate between going in low and jumping with a FAir to ward it off. It'll generally be easy to tell if he's going to BAir you though, so SDI upward the best you can and try going back again. If you're up by a stock with a substantial % and he's coming down to BAir you, you might as well attempt an Aethercide; with his great girth, it shouldn't be too hard to hit him unless the player is smart and DI's out + airdodges.

It only takes one mis-spaced attack and a shieldgrab to make you lose momentum and shift the tide in D3's favor. You must play an offensive defense by shutting him out in the air and covering up your landing lag with jabs.

 

[Guilhe]

I'm taking back what I have said

And why use Eruption instead of air dodge? Air dodge has much less lag.

I've gone to a tourney and met an Ike and DDD player who made his way into the top. His matches were truly epic and he was surely the star of the show. He killed fast and at very low percents. I’ve asked him a few pointers on how to kick ***, and he incentivized the use of Eruption.

Eruption in the air is similar to counter, but you have more control over it and it kills like an Usmash. But as if the start and ending lag from counter weren’t enough, Eruption is even laggier. But then you have the huge hitbox and the option to charge it, making the move more effective when timed well. Then again, you got to time it well or suffer the consequences. As I see it now the cons don’t eclipse de pros, so it is a useful move that should be in your arsenal especially if you’re aiming for a kill under 100%.

 

[YagamiLight]

King Dedede got a rather small amount of posts referring to him, but all of those posts were quite useful input wise. I'll start the write-up, and I'll have it done by this time tomorrow. I regularly play a good Dedede, so I'm pretty sure I can make this a large article.

 

[•Col•]

King Dedede got a rather small amount of posts referring to him, but all of those posts were quite useful input wise. I'll start the write-up, and I'll have it done by this time tomorrow. I regularly play a good Dedede, so I'm pretty sure I can make this a large article.

Lol, I don't have much experience against DDD... =P Granted, I didn't add much to the discussion for the other characters either... But still.... >.> Let's get to the next character... xD

 

[JST]

Few more things to note. These are just general DDDD stuff. I don't know many Ike advantages because the Ikes I play don't fare well against me at all.

NAir is a godsend in this match-up, it sets up for jab combos and grabs extremely well and has very little lag so it's a fairly safe move.

Your spacing has to be really tight; DDD can and will shield-grab Ike right out of the air. And since it seems to be a godsend, DDD will be expecting it every time.

FAir is amazing against D3 in the air, it outranges his FAir and either forces a dodge (which can be read and punished) or a jump in the opposite direction to avoid it. Depending on where you are, you can ground stalk him or even pressure him with the *occasional* Aether.

A good DDD will never use his own fair in a head-on encounter like that. DDD usually uses fair to wall an opponent, hit them when they're slightly above or below DDD, or pressure them into an approach. Anytime Ike uses fair, the DDD will probably have his back to you, bair at ready, which is much faster than Ike's fair (Ike's fair has more range I think tho).

Jab faking into a grab is REALLY good against DDD (If they don't expect it).

Watch out for DDD's Inhale - not only will it catch you off-guard and halt your momentum if it catches you, but it will also put you in a very bad position. Be very cautious near the edge too - a regicide is always looming over the horizon.



Something I feel I must stress: DDD's turnaround grab is so fast it's like he can shieldgrab in both directions. Watch the spacing, man. Never leave yourself open EVER



If DDD has his back to you while he floats around, be careful on how you approach, the following could happen if you approach badly:

-You get a faceful of Bair.
-B-Reversal-Inhale (Watch out for this).
-If you try to pursue him while he's up there, he'll turn around and you'll get a dair to your face.
-He fastfalls into a turnaround grab.

Ftilt has monstrous range but it's punishable if you somehow get around it. Dtilt has deceptive speed and range, but it's also very punishable (If you get around it).


One piece of advice that will help you in this match-up because it is especially true in the case of DDD: Please don't screw up your spacing/movement or you're ****ed

 

[YagamiLight]

There, done. it's slightly shorter than expected, but I think my brain fizzled since it's rather late at night. I'll recheck the thing tomorrow. I'll put the next character up now, I guess.

 

[HeroMystic]

Ah Marth, I got two friends who like to fight my Ike with Marth, so I'll definitely give my input.

...When I'm not tired as hell. I'll get on it tomorrow.

 

[XZA143]

First, great job YagamiLight. Your constantly finding time to develop the guide and this can only help Ike. You are appreciated.

Second, lets get to it. I personally love this match up. The classic speed v.s. power. Marth has the advantage here for a variety of reasons most of us already know, the most obvious being his mobility, quick attacks, counter, and methods to safely gimp your recovery if your not careful. Though all is not as grim as some may make it seem. Ike has his own tools to assist him in this match up.

A few things to keep in mind:
-Marth can f-throw you at 0% to f-smash for what I believe is an automatic tipper, bringing Ike's percentage to about 23 or 24. Be wary of this and keep your distance, but do not let yourself get near the edge. You don't want to start the edge guarding scenario seconds into the battle.

-As I'm sure we've all seen, the usage of counter when your Aether recovering. I've done some testing, and if you reverse Aether as you maneuver yourself towards the ledge, Marth will actually turn around and counter. There isn't much margin for error, but I think it is a viable solution for counter happy Marths when your recovering.

When facing Marth, expect a barrage of dancing blade slashes and Fair strikes among other things. If your too aggressive, he'll counter you repeatedly. If your too defensive, he's got dancing blade and his neutral-b to diminish your shield. The key is to mix up what your doing the entire time, but generally be on the defensive. The majority of Ike's attacks do not have enough speed to allow you to be aggressive, so you'll have to work with what you have. Spaced Fairs and Nairs are still options, but you must be positive when you commit to utilizing those moves that they'll come out, as Marth's Fairs will most likely beat you to the punch, so consider retreating when using them. Work in your jabs,grabs and U-tilt when there is an opening. Try not to jab cancel too often, Marth's U-b has invincibility frames from the start and has good knockback, resulting in a free hit and space for him. The biggest problem with approaching him is his counter, or the threat of it, which activates slightly faster before yours would. Regardless, you have one too and you should use it to mix things up.

Your smashes do have a place here. I've had the most success with charging them to bait a counter or air dodge, then punish. Eruption is valuable as well due to the SA frames. They can save you from falling down after being hit upwards, and defensively to punish predictable aggression.

When Marth is recovering, he can be almost as predictable as you if he is below the ledge. A carefully timed eruption will hit Marth before he sweetspots the ledge. Other options include a walk-off fair(attempt on a high percentage), counter(if your anticipating an U-b), a ledge hopped Aether spike or hugging the ledge right before he attempts to recover. Be sure to give him different looks and his recovery can seem as hopeless as he thinks yours is.

I'm sure I missed a few things, this is just what came to me off the top of my head. I'll let everyone else contribute their analysis.

 

[Rykoshet]

-Marth can f-throw you at 0% to f-smash for what I believe is an automatic tipper, bringing Ike's percentage to about 23 or 24. Be wary of this and keep your distance, but do not let yourself get near the edge. You don't want to start the edge guarding scenario seconds into the battle

This works as high as 47% (when grabbed) due to ike's ridiculous properties of falling into moves regardless of DI, and it will kill ike flat out if done on the side of a stage at that %

Welcome to the one character that can beat you to the punch every time when it comes to edge guarding. If a marth sees that you're moving in suspiciously close to try to reverse aether there's a good chance theyll ledge hug to hog you or if they caught on way early, will bait an air dodge with an fair then just dolphin stage spike you.

Make good use of reading your opponent on this one. Marth is fast but he is predictable as hell because he can usually get away with it. You will be on the retreat most of the time in this fight, a lot of f and up tilts will find their way in your arsenal, and you're way better off with nair as an aggressive move than fair. I'll go through some stuff I had with my marth vs kirk in the last couple of days but a big one is to scare your opponent. If they have a penchant for using counter, use that to your advantage and charge a smash to take a free stock. If they have a thing for ledgehopping (as a lot of marths do) that's a free stock also because they should be getting spiked. This matchup is about robbing marth of his stocks early since he is so light but being aggressive is really troublesome in this one.

**** marth.

 

[3xSwords]

No, f-throw > f-smash does not work up to 47%. It is possible to DI it, you just have to know how. I believe it is either down or away from Marth.

Your jab is the only thing you really have in terms of speed, so you want to abuse it a lot. Don't be afraid to jab cancel, very rarely will a Marth try to upB the jab cancel, because he either won't suspect it or he is smart enough not to take the chance of missing and getting a fully charged smash to the face. Marth's upB won't be abuse so much in this match up as Ike will be able to punish heavily if Marth misses. But watch out if he picks stages such as BF or Delfino that have a high platform to land after an upB sooner.

The thing about Ike is that his fair and his nair are actually really easy to see coming and gives the Marth enough time to counter. However, lucky for you, the fair at max range can not be hit by counter, although nair can be, so just don't get predictable.

DB will be used to punish anytime you have post lag, and you rarely will see a Marth start to smash until higher %'s unless they were trying to get more damage while punishing aka this is how you tell knowledgeable Marth's from ignorant ones.

Dtilt ***** you. Its an amazing poke move. Most of your moves don't beat it in speed and the ones that do are beaten by the range. If a Dtilt hits, a DB will most likely follow.

Also since Marth sucks from below, you want to capitalize on that. Its kind of like Snake, his dair sucks, but he is also lighter. Which means if you land that uair or u-smash you will kill at ridiculously low %'s. After grabbing, throw him up or down, and bait an air dodge and use an u-air or empty SH FF to u-smash.

When recoverying against Marth be extremely careful. As a given you don't want to use your 2nd jump immediately. This holds true for Ike most of the time, so you might want it as a general tip. If you do the reverse aether to fool the counter edge guard tactic, watch out because you would be in perfect range for a dtilt or even worse an f-smash. Marth can also fair you out of QD instead of getting hit by it. Getting back onto the stage can be a pain, but if you mix things up you should be fine.

 

[HeroMystic]

(gosh, I thought I'd be the one making a huge paragraph against Marth )

The majority of my experiences are from the three above posters, so I'll be reiterating what they said.

Marth has two things against Ike: He's quick and all of his attacks are sweetspotted at the tip of his blade. In which case, Ike has two problems: Spacing is a horrible idea for Marth as sweetspotted attacks gives huge damage and higher knockback, which means Ike will have to go up close and personal, which will put him in danger of all of Marth's quick attacks. However, this does not give Marth an advantage. In fact, it gives Ike the advantage.

Rest assured that Marth will use dancing blade if Ike is too close. Marth's goal is to have you at the proper range to sweetspot. Majority of the time, they will end with the Side-B (Regular version) of Dancing Blade since it knocks you back. In which case, shield the attacks then spotdodge the final hit, which gives you the time to jab or grab him. I suggest jabbing as the intention here is to stay up close, but you can also grab and do a d-throw or up-throw to put him in the air and do a U-tilt or U-air(watch out for counter if you do this too much). Feel free to jab-cancel into more jabbing here as the majority of Marths will just take it unless there are more platforms.

If Marth ends dancing blade with Down-B (Triple stab version), then spot-dodging will more than likely not work since the attack is prolonged. You can do two things from here, you can shield the triple stab then go for a grab, or you can roll behind Marth during his stabs and go for jabs. You may even get in an F-tilt if you're quick enough.

Eruption is an excellent edgeguard for Marth. There is only one place Marth can go when recovering: Up. Remember Eruption has a huge hitbox, so it's entirely possible to hit Marth with Eruption when he's going for the ledge, you just have to time when he's going to use Dolphin Slash. Other edgeguarding techniques is F-air (not recommended unless Marth is cornered, if he can't return without Dolphin Slash then chances are he'll air dodge instead), D-air, Aether (only do this is Marth is high above, if you attempt this while Marth is low chances are he'll Up-B to the ledge which'll result in -1 Stock for you), and B-air that could beat Marth's Up-B if the player is not on his toes.

Now lets switch the roles. As said before, Marth will use dancing blade if Ike is too close. If it works, then Ike will need to get back up close before Marth goes on a sweetspot frenzy, but don't do it predictably, that's rather worthless. Whenever this happens, you'll want Marth to approach. Remember that Marth's range isn't too good, but it's good enough that it can whack you around. More than likely, Marth will shorthop. If he does, be prepared for either a F-air (more than likely) or a N-air (not so likely). N-air takes a bit longer to end, but it's at an incredibly fast speed, so Spotdodging can work. If F-air, chances are he's trying to go for a sweetspot knockback. It's predictable as hell, so I actually had a good amount of counters against this, but don't do this too much as a Marth can do fake-outs. It's safer to either shield or spotdodge this since Marth will land in front of you due to his momentum. At that point, you're back to where you started.

A good Marth however will mix up his game. Watch out for his grabs. They have low knockback (except for U-throw), but it's just enough to get you back into sweetspot range, plus unlike Dancing blade, it puts you slightly in the air due to knockback. This can allow Marth to do tilts and smashes, so be weary of those.

If you're in high %, watch out for the Up-B of Dancing Blade (I believe it's called the Prestige), It'll put you really high in the air and can potientially put you in the KO range, but the true purpose of it is to give Marth enough time to setup for more attacks to KO.

In which case, if Ike is off the edge, Marth will give you hell. If you're low, he will counter Aether. If you're above, he will F-air or still counter you. If you're just at the right spot, he will D-air spike you. As said before, use reverse Aether to screw up Marth's counter, but personally, I always just aimed for the ledge instead of trying to get back on the stage. Yes, it's still in danger of Marth's counter, but Marth has to get there first. If he does, it only opens up the use of mindgames. Chances are he'll prepare himself to do it again. Use that opportunity to aim for the stage instead of the ledge.

Just like with every matchup, use Smash attacks sparingly. Tilts are more than enough to send Marth flying. If you see an opening (which will more than likely only be from Dolphin Slash), feel free to punish with an F-Smash or U-Smash and get your free kill. Marth will more than likely use his smash attacks sparingly too to keep them fresh, so always be prepared to spotdodge his smashes.

God... this took like 45 mins to write up.

 

[Kirk]

Gah...wish I had time to read this morning...I'll give some of my thoughts when I get back from class :o I'll think over some keypoints before I post.

Nyah.

 

[Rykoshet]

No, f-throw > f-smash does not work up to 47%. It is possible to DI it, you just have to know how. I believe it is either down or away from Marth.

It definitely isnt down and away doesn't give you enough time but feel free to show me otherwise seeing as I've caught multiple ikes with that move based off of the guide put up on it and DI my heart out and still get caught by it when I'm on ike. It stops working at various points up to 47 (like 20-23) but it does work up until that point.

Marth's upB won't be abuse so much in this match up as Ike will be able to punish heavily if Marth misses. But watch out if he picks stages such as BF or Delfino that have a high platform to land after an upB sooner.

That's exactly why a marth should and a good/smart marth will abuse the hell out of dolphin slash if you attempt to jab cancel. If you're at any point above like 30 you will be knocked far enough away for them to regain their bearings after landing on a platform and how many stages don't have platforms to begin with? FD, smashville and like the third part of castle siege, platforms are more common than they are missing from stages and it doesn't take an amazing height for the marth to regain control of their character in time. You can bait this though if you know a marth will abuse it and use the shield to jab cancel instead of down input but jab canceling in of itself is far from a safe maneuver. Beyond the first time the marth will just start mixing in DIing backwards and jump away after the second hit in the jab string.

 

[Kirk]

Marf:

Watch Dancing Blade patterns: This means look if Marth uses all four hits or not in a given situation. If you shield the first hit, naturally you should keep shielding. Marth may pause when he sees you shielding and set up for a grab or another attack. Take advantage of this and jab out of shield, for example. If he finishes all the way through, punish accordingly. If you're getting hit by all the hits, SDI. It does work, but takes practice. It can get you out in time to punish after Dancing Blade ends.

Fight from below: Getting Marth above you puts you in an advantageous position. Marth's key strengths are on the ground and directly in front of you (spaced Fairs, Nairs, Dtilt, DB to name a few), so taking this away from him is a nice idea. You know the drill...Upsmash/Uair/Eruption **** as necessary, incorporated with baiting jumps and air dodges, naturally. Just be wary of counter, but all that's needed to remedy that is a little more charging.

Use your dash attack: Some may disagree, but Ike's dash attack is teh freaking pwnage if used correctly. You may have a Marth who likes to Fair or Nair while retreating to avoid punishment. What could Ike possibly do in this situation? Why a dash attack of course. Used with the c-stick down immediately after dashing, you have a quick, bad*** ranged attack to get you up close and personal to those retreaters. But that's not all it can be used for. Try out different ways to use it. It can be a nice surprise if used correctly.

Edgeguarding: You guys know this already...so just keep doing it. Fairs, Dairs, tilts, etc. are all in place here. Ledgehopping and ledgeattacking-happy Marths are nice to come by as well. It gives you a nice excuse to put a Counter or Eruption in their face. Nothing much to say here.

Forward Smash: Use it.

I would say more, but that goes into general Ike strategies to be used on most characters. So yeah...I've got nothing else for now.

 

[•Col•]

Marf:

Watch Dancing Blade patterns: This means look if Marth uses all four hits or not in a given situation. If you shield the first hit, naturally you should keep shielding. Marth may pause when he sees you shielding and set up for a grab or another attack. Take advantage of this and jab out of shield, for example. If he finishes all the way through, punish accordingly. If you're getting hit by all the hits, SDI. It does work, but takes practice. It can get you out in time to punish after Dancing Blade ends.

Fight from below: Getting Marth above you puts you in an advantageous position. Marth's key strengths are on the ground and directly in front of you (spaced Fairs, Nairs, Dtilt, DB to name a few), so taking this away from him is a nice idea. You know the drill...Upsmash/Uair/Eruption **** as necessary, incorporated with baiting jumps and air dodges, naturally. Just be wary of counter, but all that's needed to remedy that is a little more charging.

Use your dash attack: Some may disagree, but Ike's dash attack is teh freaking pwnage if used correctly. You may have a Marth who likes to Fair or Nair while retreating to avoid punishment. What could Ike possibly do in this situation? Why a dash attack of course. Used with the c-stick down immediately after dashing, you have a quick, bad*** ranged attack to get you up close and personal to those retreaters. But that's not all it can be used for. Try out different ways to use it. It can be a nice surprise if used correctly.

Edgeguarding: You guys know this already...so just keep doing it. Fairs, Dairs, tilts, etc. are all in place here. Ledgehopping and ledgeattacking-happy Marths are nice to come by as well. It gives you a nice excuse to put a Counter or Eruption in their face. Nothing much to say here.

Forward Smash: Use it.

I would say more, but that goes into general Ike strategies to be used on most characters. So yeah...I've got nothing else for now.

Bunch of good info. right there... One thing though...

Use the forward smash? xD Could you build on that a bit more? Normally, I try not to use it at all, especially against quick attackers like Marth since if you miss, you get rheyped... D: And most Marth's would probably just counter it which would kill you instead.... Dx ...

So yeah... Please elaborate, I dun get it... =P

 

[Kirk]

Meant mostly as a joke xD More of a general comment than matchup specific.

Don't get me wrong though, Fsmash IS a good attack, but by no means should it be overused.

A few examples for the heck of it:

-Predicting a counter? Charged Fsmash to the face. How much more open can Marth make himself :D

-Does Marth walk/run to you intending to use dancing blade for an approach? (or even for punishment) Walk back slightly, Fsmash. DB will bring him closer to you in range for your attack.

-Marth likes to ledgehop? Instead of going for a spike/tilt, go for an Fsmash.

The point is, mix up your game. Keep in mind Fsmash is one of the most fear inducing attacks in the game. Sometimes it can make people do stupid things...so use that to your advantage (In my Crimean Sonata video, you'll see me use Fsmash out of shield, point blank to my opponent. Basically, "Oh crap *shields*...oh crap *spotdodge* *spotdodge* OH SHI- *dies*"....lolmindgames).

Just...don't overuse it...I would hope that warrants no further explanation.

Sorry for off-topic-ish btw :o

 

[HeroMystic]

My most favorite thing to do is walking up to an opponent and do a turnaround F-Smash, and watch the opponent roll right into it.

I got so many curse words from doing that.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

lol @ the walls of text. I' really don't have anything to say after those 5 with out being redundant guess I'll just give my opinion on stages.

For stages I imagine that places with low platforms would be good as Ike can hit with a tone of moves from under them and it wouldn't recover Marth from a dolphin slash. Things that come to mind would be halberd and Lylat. Halberd in its neutral form is better for your recovery than his as you can slide a bit with it while he will be open for Smash attacks if he goes trough the stage. Of course the only way that he would go trough the stage would be if your ledge hogging him.

For lylat well the tilting can screw both of you up equally but the ledges are a good boon if he lands on top of them. Of course some people hate this stage because of the tilting, ehh kirk.

 

[•Col•]

lol @ the walls of text. I' really don't have anything to say after those 5 with out being redundant guess I'll just give my opinion on stages.

For stages I imagine that places with low platforms would be good as Ike can hit with a tone of moves from under them and it wouldn't recover Marth from a dolphin slash. Things that come to mind would be halberd and Lylat. Halberd in its neutral form is better for your recovery than his as you can slide a bit with it while he will be open for Smash attacks if he goes trough the stage. Of course the only way that he would go trough the stage would be if your ledge hogging him.

For lylat well the tilting can screw both of you up equally but the ledges are a good boon if he lands on top of them. Of course some people hate this stage because of the tilting, ehh kirk.

Uh... On lylat cruise, Marth can stall with Dancing blade for a bit until it tilts toward him... So it's actually not as bad for him... Also, Marth <3's [any] platforms... D: I think it'd be best to just go FD with this one...

 

[Kirk]

Mmm yes...you all heard it here first...counterpick me on lylat to screw me over

The truth of the matter is, Ike and Marth both have their strengths when it comes to platforms. To say who has the larger advantage, that is up to debate...I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other. In the end, pick a stage you are comfortable with, ehh arturito?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I'd say Brinstar for the Aethersliding. But on the other hand, I'd say Marth likes platforms more then Ike does.....however, the platforms aren't as ideal for attacking through as say BF.

FD is good, as the ledges are more likely to screw over Marth then Ike. At least with Ike, you can move a tad from side to side during Aether. Marth, not so much. SV might work as the platform is moving and is harder to capitalize on.

The only other thing I can think of is this: If you know Marth is going to go for a tipper Fsmash, try countering. I think the counter will come out before it hits, and that would deal a lot of damage and knockback. It would need testing though.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

The only other thing I can think of is this: If you know Marth is going to go for a tipper Fsmash, try countering. I think the counter will come out before it hits, and that would deal a lot of damage and knockback. It would need testing though.

It works but just barely. Your timing would have to be precise, activating it just as Marth initiates the attack. It requires exceptional reaction time though and has a low success rate among Ike users I've faced (but then none of them have been that great).

 

[Nidtendofreak]

If we are assuming top of Meta-Game for both, I'm guessing that would mean roughly 80% of the time the Ike player would pull it off then. That, and Ike isn't vulnerable as long as Marth is after his counter.

 

[XACE-K]

Well, I don't much to say about this match-up due to lack of experience with it but I do think FD is a good stage for this match-up.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Stages in this match up are both pretty much neutral since the recoveries are kind of the same. No one has projectiles and both are pretty much either trying to space as much as they can or Ike trys to get up close to jab. Even so both are close combat quarters.

The problem with FD would be that you can't reverse aether as well because you may get stuck in the lip. SV sounds good for this but like I was telling kirk yesterday I don't like CPing starters because everyone plays in them. Finding a stage you are comfortable with and other people aren't puts you at a big advantage, even bigger if it gives your character a slight advantage. If both of you are still accustomed to the stage well at least your character has a slight advantage over his.

lol @ xace's new avatar.

edit: IIRC marth is open for 32 frames after counter while Ike is open for 28, it hardly makes a difference because if you round they are both half a second.

 

[•Col•]

Stages in this match up are both pretty much neutral since the recoveries are kind of the same. No one has projectiles and both are pretty much either trying to space as much as they can or Ike trys to get up close to jab. Even so both are close combat quarters.

The problem with FD would be that you can't reverse aether as well because you may get stuck in the lip. SV sounds good for this but like I was telling kirk yesterday I don't like CPing starters because everyone plays in them. Finding a stage you are comfortable with and other people aren't puts you at a big advantage, even bigger if it gives your character a slight advantage. If both of you are still accustomed to the stage well at least your character has a slight advantage over his.

lol @ xace's new avatar.

Uh, they're recoveries aren't too similar... xP Marth has a lot of extra options when recovering (ShieldBreaker, Dancing Blade, etc...)... But and way, another stage that might be good is Smashville... (Uh, dunno if that's what you meant by "SV" o-o ) Anyway, it's easier to Reverse Aether here, but it also means no Marth getting gimped by the edge... And even though there is a platform here, it's moving around, so it's not that bad...

 

[YagamiLight]

Haha, that's quite the large amount of info. School's a rather big bother, but I'll try to get the Marth match-up started as soon as possible, regardless.

I also made the D3 analysis bigger. I'm going to try my best to add as much help everywhere as possible, since every little bit is useful.