Uh. I actually read the whole dam thing. You have some sweet pictures of Link in there. Just epic stuff.
O and thank you for the cookie. (yes you know what I am talking about)
Good point
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- Thread starter Bouse
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O and thank you for the cookie. (yes you know what I am talking about)
Ritch
Smash Journeyman
lol i wouldnt do it either, i was just stating a suggestion. We could use some discussions around here for match-ups....
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
O hi, I was just reading your guide, when i noticed one of the matchups was quite a bit off. In order to prove this, I quoted the summary and will provide counterpoints to all of your points.
That brings me to my next point. gimping link consists of 3 moves, bair, upb, and fair. Fair i will cover in a bit.
the smartest way to gimp people with bad recoveries is to bair them a couple times, and then ledge stall with upb so that they cannot make it back. link is one of these characters, and a bair off stage at 60% will result in a death so long as dk does not screw up the ledge stall.
fair is kind of a backup gimp. It isn't consistent, and is only for when dk cannot make it off the stage to gimp. from the stage, dk can fast fall the fair to go straight through certain recoveries that occasionally overshoot the stage, like marth or link if they space wrong. however, this requires an error on the links part, and isn't very consistent.
What you did not mention is DK's superb ledge pressure game. dk can space an fsmash so that it will eat your get up attack, jump, and roll, if he times the release right. It will also hit you off ledges, and, if you manage to get up and shield in time, will knock you back onto the ledge with nothing but a smaller shield to show for you efforts. If you ledge stall, dsmash will stage spike you, killing after 45%. The donkey kong can also space downb to take out the standard get up, get up attack, and roll, forcing you to get up with a jump, very useful on battlefield and lylat, because it puts you up on the platform, with dk right below you. Basically, if you do make it back to the ledge, you're still in a bad position. you're zair helps, but the fsmash will still beat it, as will a running shield grab.
if you spotdodge, sideb, fsmash, and punch become punishable even when spaced, however, spotdodging is a lot riskier.
if the dk doesn't space, bair and his tilts are punishable, but this is assuming you're playing good dk's, so disregard that.
What you left out (I can right in big letters and colorful fonts too)
Link is one of the characters with proper fall speed for the utilt trap, meaning from 0%, we can utilt you 3-4 times, for a total of 30 or so percent, and, if we read your air dodge right, or if we are on a stage with a platform, we can lead it into a usmash, for a total of 50% and you in a bad position.
dtilt combos, a lot, dtilt-dtilt-downb is a 30ish% combo that puts link in a bad position. If the dtilt trips, it combos into both the punch, fsmash, and the gfsc headbutt, all of which hurt, a lot.
DK has crazy tech chases. If you get grabbed, dthrow will force a tech chase (technically you can airdodge, but it then becomes a psuedo cg, so its either tech chase or regrab) On the ground, dtilt and low ftilts can trip into tech chases, upb can also force it depending on DI, and a bunch of other random moves that aren't practical can occasionally force them
for grounded tech chases, if the dk reads your get up right, it's a headbutt, if he wants to be lazy, downb will beat three out of four options depending on placement (get up attack wins if he's up close, rolling away wins if he's at a distance) if you are by the ledge, fsmash beats all 4 options entirely, the only difference would be how long the fsmash is charged**
platform tech chases are easier to force, as downb and upb (di'd high) as well as his aerials can all force you into the tech/lay in vulnerable position. get up attacks and standing up are pretty much the same in rolling towards the nearest ledge in this position. So in reality, you have two options, roll towards one end of the platform, or roll towards the other/stand/get up attack. both of these give dk enough time to see where you're going, and either usmash, or foxtrot usmash, in essence, if you're laying in vulnerable on a platform, dk gets a free usmash, which does 18% minimum charge (probably 20% with the slight charge we get) and will kill you somewhere in the 60-70's
And that all brings me to my final point. His kill game is amazing. fsmash, usmash, and the punch will all kill in the late 60's/early 70s, and can be guaranteed with headbutts (one properly read roll/spot dodge, or a diminished shield is all he needs to land it) Dsmash kills in the 90ish range, and a grab by the ledge kills at 50-60 (not stage spike, dthrow to ledge stall). Basically your stocks are very short while his stocks last forever. His gimp game is very good, and assuming you make it to 120, uair becomes a very reliable 6 frame kill move.
now, you may say that usmash, fsmash, and the punch are not that reliable, however, they can all be used to punish due to there extreme priority. Usmash WILL beat the dair, it beats everyones dair, lucarios included. meaning you should not return with dair at all, it can also be used through platforms with decent succcess (or guaranteed with a tech chase on a platform) fsmash can be guaranteed with a tech chase by the ledge, and is quite likely to hit if you are on the ledge. Finally the punch goes through all your stuff, aerial start up time is 14 frames for the SA (don't quote me on it, might be up to 16), meaning if you're committed to any whiffed attack, the jump in punch can land.
I just thought your matchup was quite a bit off so i wrote you an essay explaining why, I'm quite sure it is not in links favor, and I will give you a number when the dk boards cover it.
** Properly spaced with you right at the ledge, you cannot roll back, as that would not move you, you cannot roll towards because you're still in range, you cannot do the get up attack because you're still in range and it wins in priority, and you cannot a normal stand up because you're still in range. This is dk's checkmate situation, as it will normally kill anywhere at anywhere from 20 to 60 percent depending on weight, charge, recovery, DI etc.
zair has plenty of range, however, if you're using it at full range, which is necessary against someone with dk's range, you will be quite predictable. At first glance it looks like he has no answer to it, right? Not quite. Dk's grounded upb has some very nice range, and very useful SA frames at the startup, on top of decent movement. If link zairs, a running upb with decent timing (most dk mains who are somewhat decent can time the upb SA frames, it's a pretty basic dk trick) will punish properly. now, you may say that, since zair has no lag, you might say "why not shield or roll?", put simply, upb shield pokes and can easily chase rolls, neither of those will work. the first time it shield pokes, it will do minimal damage, however, you're shield will be reduced to a small dot, the second time you will take somewhere between 20 and 36 depending on DI. Also, if dk gets your shield low, watch out, sideb, fsmash, the punch, and downb all take away somewhere between half and 3/4ths of your shield.
Another problem solved by proper use of upb, the frame 4 invincible hit means that most jab combos lose to it, and link is not exempt. if link is at low percents, it will pop him up into the rest of the upb, dealing anywhere from 23 all the way up to 40+% depending on DI. if link is at a higher percent, or DI's in order to avoid th low percent combo, it hits him far enough away that we can retreat to a ledge/ area far from link to land unpunished.
That is, if he stage spikes. Against characters link, ganon, and a few others, dk has a second option. jump off, and dthrow them forward, instead of towards the stage, followed by an upb ledge stall will effectively kill link at any % past 60.
However, as I stated earlier, zair is not that safe, meaning if you attack his shield, it'll be from a distance with projectiles. you also forgot to mention his 6 frame dtilt that sets up several attacks that do 20+% (dtilt trip - gfsc headbutt - either usmash, fsmash, or punch depending on % is my personal favorite, though on stages with platforms, dtilt to downb to tech chased usmash works better)
dair is pretty hard to land if dk is paying attention, he can control the upb, and just pull back for a second so the dair misses. I've heard a lot of people say that they can gimp dk's recovery, and in all my tournament experience, the only ones who could do it are ness, ganon, mk, rob (bair) dedede (bair and fair) marth (counter) and ike. Of these, the only ones that actually killed were ganon, ness, rob, and ike. Not saying your move can't break the upb, just saying that if the DK steers it properly, you'll probably miss, which is very bad for you.
That brings me to my next point. gimping link consists of 3 moves, bair, upb, and fair. Fair i will cover in a bit.
the smartest way to gimp people with bad recoveries is to bair them a couple times, and then ledge stall with upb so that they cannot make it back. link is one of these characters, and a bair off stage at 60% will result in a death so long as dk does not screw up the ledge stall.
fair is kind of a backup gimp. It isn't consistent, and is only for when dk cannot make it off the stage to gimp. from the stage, dk can fast fall the fair to go straight through certain recoveries that occasionally overshoot the stage, like marth or link if they space wrong. however, this requires an error on the links part, and isn't very consistent.
What you did not mention is DK's superb ledge pressure game. dk can space an fsmash so that it will eat your get up attack, jump, and roll, if he times the release right. It will also hit you off ledges, and, if you manage to get up and shield in time, will knock you back onto the ledge with nothing but a smaller shield to show for you efforts. If you ledge stall, dsmash will stage spike you, killing after 45%. The donkey kong can also space downb to take out the standard get up, get up attack, and roll, forcing you to get up with a jump, very useful on battlefield and lylat, because it puts you up on the platform, with dk right below you. Basically, if you do make it back to the ledge, you're still in a bad position. you're zair helps, but the fsmash will still beat it, as will a running shield grab.
The upb I covered earlier. For the punch, having it charged limits your kill moves to... nothing. they all have enough start up that, with decent prediction, all get eaten by the SA. If the dk predicts what you are going to do, anything, even jabs or projectiles, a jump in punch will eat it, deal around 30 damage, and kill at 60-70.
your projectiles work quite nicely, and usmash can be a pain if you can land it against his spacing game, but other than that... you don't really have many consistent moves. dk's bair beats out your aerials (save for tippered zair, however, if the dk is spacing right, you'll rarely be at tipper range when you're both in the air). zair, as I've explained earlier in this post, only works when dk is in the air, as on the ground upb will beat it. your tilts all get out-ranged and out-prioritized by dk's tilts and downb.
properly spaced, his only punishable moves on block are dsmash (which we only use oos or when we are guaranteed not to be punished) fair, dair, nair (which we don't use outside of gimps) and upb (assuming only the end hits, if 7 of the spins hit, it shield pokes)
if you spotdodge, sideb, fsmash, and punch become punishable even when spaced, however, spotdodging is a lot riskier.
if the dk doesn't space, bair and his tilts are punishable, but this is assuming you're playing good dk's, so disregard that.
What you left out (I can right in big letters and colorful fonts too)
Link is one of the characters with proper fall speed for the utilt trap, meaning from 0%, we can utilt you 3-4 times, for a total of 30 or so percent, and, if we read your air dodge right, or if we are on a stage with a platform, we can lead it into a usmash, for a total of 50% and you in a bad position.
dtilt combos, a lot, dtilt-dtilt-downb is a 30ish% combo that puts link in a bad position. If the dtilt trips, it combos into both the punch, fsmash, and the gfsc headbutt, all of which hurt, a lot.
DK has crazy tech chases. If you get grabbed, dthrow will force a tech chase (technically you can airdodge, but it then becomes a psuedo cg, so its either tech chase or regrab) On the ground, dtilt and low ftilts can trip into tech chases, upb can also force it depending on DI, and a bunch of other random moves that aren't practical can occasionally force them
for grounded tech chases, if the dk reads your get up right, it's a headbutt, if he wants to be lazy, downb will beat three out of four options depending on placement (get up attack wins if he's up close, rolling away wins if he's at a distance) if you are by the ledge, fsmash beats all 4 options entirely, the only difference would be how long the fsmash is charged**
platform tech chases are easier to force, as downb and upb (di'd high) as well as his aerials can all force you into the tech/lay in vulnerable position. get up attacks and standing up are pretty much the same in rolling towards the nearest ledge in this position. So in reality, you have two options, roll towards one end of the platform, or roll towards the other/stand/get up attack. both of these give dk enough time to see where you're going, and either usmash, or foxtrot usmash, in essence, if you're laying in vulnerable on a platform, dk gets a free usmash, which does 18% minimum charge (probably 20% with the slight charge we get) and will kill you somewhere in the 60-70's
And that all brings me to my final point. His kill game is amazing. fsmash, usmash, and the punch will all kill in the late 60's/early 70s, and can be guaranteed with headbutts (one properly read roll/spot dodge, or a diminished shield is all he needs to land it) Dsmash kills in the 90ish range, and a grab by the ledge kills at 50-60 (not stage spike, dthrow to ledge stall). Basically your stocks are very short while his stocks last forever. His gimp game is very good, and assuming you make it to 120, uair becomes a very reliable 6 frame kill move.
now, you may say that usmash, fsmash, and the punch are not that reliable, however, they can all be used to punish due to there extreme priority. Usmash WILL beat the dair, it beats everyones dair, lucarios included. meaning you should not return with dair at all, it can also be used through platforms with decent succcess (or guaranteed with a tech chase on a platform) fsmash can be guaranteed with a tech chase by the ledge, and is quite likely to hit if you are on the ledge. Finally the punch goes through all your stuff, aerial start up time is 14 frames for the SA (don't quote me on it, might be up to 16), meaning if you're committed to any whiffed attack, the jump in punch can land.
I just thought your matchup was quite a bit off so i wrote you an essay explaining why, I'm quite sure it is not in links favor, and I will give you a number when the dk boards cover it.
** Properly spaced with you right at the ledge, you cannot roll back, as that would not move you, you cannot roll towards because you're still in range, you cannot do the get up attack because you're still in range and it wins in priority, and you cannot a normal stand up because you're still in range. This is dk's checkmate situation, as it will normally kill anywhere at anywhere from 20 to 60 percent depending on weight, charge, recovery, DI etc.
D
Deleted member
Guest
@ above poster
ravage combos, gg
if you kill link at 60% you are fighting a scrub link, i'm sorry but its true
and what the hell do you mean the zair isnt safe? i guess link's zair has landing lag now and you can't craq walk out of it.
ravage combos, gg
if you kill link at 60% you are fighting a scrub link, i'm sorry but its true
and what the hell do you mean the zair isnt safe? i guess link's zair has landing lag now and you can't craq walk out of it.
Looticforgothispassword
Smash Ace
ok with link we actually have more options on the ledge than you seem to know. If having a bomb in hand we can roll up back onto the stage while the explosion hits you so that you gets in a bad position. Most links pull out a bomb when they recover so this happens quite often. so that situation is NOT chess mate, sorry.
Also you should watch arkives link, he knows how to survive and to be a good link you need to be almost as good as arkive at your DI(he is just to sick). He always survives past 150%.
No good link main uses zair with the same timing everytime, we can zair out of an air dodge which makes zair super safe cause of its versatility, we can also keep a bomb in hand while we zair which keeps us safe, also links craq walk is very good and at least I make a craqwalk after almost every zair I do.
dair isnt so useful, we only use it when we are sure to hit with it, also link can edgeguard with projectiles(for DK it is arrows) and hang low from the edge with zair so that DK cant grab the ledge. also link has a good ledgeguard so even if DK makes it back to the ledge, we can 1. dair you at the ledge it doesnt matter what you do to get up* 2. fsmash you, it has very nice range and covers much if using second hit (first hit is long enough though). getting of stage against dk is stupid, I never do it.
donkey has combos at link yes maybe, but link can combo DK quite easy too, every zair can lead into a combo so be careful, also fsmash makes 32% damage and often comes after a jab cancel making 39% of damgage in total, if not stringed some jab cancels then grab > dthrow > fsmash > double fsmash which makes even more damage (7% for first jab cancel i think its 5% for the next 2, 7% for the dthrow and 32% for fsmash, both hits), gale rang > dash attack > utilt juggle > usmash > uair.
link sucks wifi, his whole edgeguard game dissapears and his recovery gets worse, his combos isnt as good either (IMO). And I have a hard time bombsliding properly. So if you have played your links wifi then it doesnt mean a ****.
* link mainers and pichu mainer shut up about the secret
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
it's not safe because if you read the first bit, you'd know well timed SA on the upb goes through it and eats any and all defensive options you have. it shield pokes and will hit you through rolls and spotdodges
2 things will happen if you do this. 1. dk will eat your roll because you cannot detonate the bomb while rolling 2. you wait too long on the ledge so the bomb will detonate while you roll, and the fsmash will knock you off the ledge.
you can drop, dj back, and throw the bomb, which is why you aren't completely dead when you hit the ledge
btw, the checkmate situation was if you were lying in a vulnerable position near the ledge.
i know DI, its why i usually live to 200 on every peach that isn't edrees.
factoring DI these are the rough kill numbers for dk against link
Punch - 70ish (high 60's at the ledge, high 80's from across the stage)
Fsmash - depends on charge, uncharged it'll be somewhere in the mid 80's, full charged it'll be low 60's center of fd, most fsmashes that dk's land are half charged near the ledge, which will kill link in the high 50's
usmash - 82 (with DI, without, more like 75)
dsmash - 110, kinda hard to DI since the sweetspot already hits you into the corner
uair is too variable to tell, it'll work past 120 guaranteed. the rest are all situational
the cargo throw (non stage spike) kills at 52 no matter what
i know about the bomb and air dodge stuff, if you short hop, it means you're either gonna zair or throw the bomb, either way, running upb SA will go through it. once you land, you don't have much time for other stuff
you really don't get much say in when the other character knocks you off the stage. by the way, fsmash and dair would work, but we can ledgehop a punch right through all of that
again, dk can upb out of the jab cancels, it's a great combo breaker
when did i ever say wifi? i said in my tournament experience link is at a disadvantage.
the only time it might be equal is on fd, because we can't use the platforms (which most dk's abuse)
we do kill you at 60% from a grab (non stage spike). and we edge guard quite easily with upb stalls
Looticforgothispassword
Smash Ace
detonating the bomb while in the roll is exactly what Im going for, so you just shows you dont have met this kind of link yet. I often keep onto my bomb till it explodes and either shielding rolling, spot dodging or air dodging the explosion. It also gives me a free fsmash at you if you are standing there stupid. Ledgehop Airdodge is another very good option, spotdodge upon landing and your window for hitting is VERY SMALL(its still there but chances are I powershield, dodge your smash or grab you)
watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBXzVrgZBDs&feature=related sick DI starts about 1:00 and peach cant kill only has the slow fair and with some luck the fsmash kills too(if tennissmash its hard to get back)
also link can bomb jump and throw rang to recover more safely, but correct DI helps more than anything else
I want to say more but dont have the time right now.
Arkive already mentioned the craq walk, we don't need to shield or roll upon landing, CW is much faster
You forgot ZAC. And just standard projectiles.
But everything else you said, I agree with.
Legan
Smash Lord
Bigfoot is pretty Dead on in this matchup, dont disregard what he says because DK Can utterly destroy link even with proper DI. You'd Have to play axelol, bigfoot, Ripple, or TTT to understand where I am coming from. The only one I havent played is bigfoot but I know hes up there with the rest. Good DK's make beautiful use of their up B's and they also got this thing where if they dont fully charge their donkey punch it will kill you at 70%/80% easily.
Hes also right about the comparison of how our stocks will play out. Youll be spending plenty of time trying to make an opening and combo DK to death (which will take time) while all DK has to do is land a couple of moves and it's over. DK has the advantage no matter what you may think, His ability to destroy trumps over our extensive knowledge of DI.
Hes also right about the comparison of how our stocks will play out. Youll be spending plenty of time trying to make an opening and combo DK to death (which will take time) while all DK has to do is land a couple of moves and it's over. DK has the advantage no matter what you may think, His ability to destroy trumps over our extensive knowledge of DI.
G1G4 G0N0RRH34
Smash Journeyman
yeah, the DK punch is kind of like Wario's waft. If you just charge it til before it's almost "fully charged" it will have a better knockback multiplier.
Yeah, DK's smash attacks, can hit you out of your ledge options if he times it to beat out the invincibility frames. Every one can do that if they time a move well. But that's because you have some lag before you can do anything when you get onto the ledge. Link can z-air to regain invincibility and there won't be any lag.
Eh? There's such a thing as a matchup in Link's favor? That's news.
Blubba_Pinecone
Smash Ace
I'll be agreeing with Arkive on this one. >_>
Plus, even if DK does have all these seemingly perfect strats, there is always a way to throw it off; they're called mindgames, and no techskill will ever out-do them.
Plus, even if DK does have all these seemingly perfect strats, there is always a way to throw it off; they're called mindgames, and no techskill will ever out-do them.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
TTT still plays? I thought he stopped a while ago. But yeah, axe(???), ripple(illinois), myself(socal), bum(new york), cbk(nevada), and linguini(florida) are the major dk's out there.
but yeah, dk has the natural advantage of being the heaviest character (all around, second heaviest off the side, second heaviest off the top), with one of the best ko games. link doesn't get it as bad as metaknight or peach, or any other character where there's usually over a 100% difference in stocks, but it's still pretty bad. with DI we can still kill you in the 80's, and a grab by the ledge ko's in the 50s. in comparison, if you land a fresh dair by the ledge, it'll kill in the 110 range, most of your ko moves work more in the 130-160 range though
EDIT:
dk has them too, the difference being, if we do it right, the pay off is much higher.
most dk players rely on mental play because it's needed to land some of his more fun/more powerful moves. half my bairs are really just to get you to shield or roll so i can punish with a headbutt (bair - headbutt is a shieldbreaker). dk has a bunch of really nice pokes, but the main reason behind them is to get you to expect pokes so we can mix in fsmashes and headbutts and land them.
i just mentioned the upb stuff because I've had link players state the zair and jab cancel things as fact, when really, there is an easy way around it.
Blubba_Pinecone
Smash Ace
Exactly, and half of our crap relies on mental game too. So basically it's mind vs mind; which more or less boils down to the fact that every match revolves around that basic principle.
Put simply, I don't give a rip if a character has a hundred and three little things they can do against Link, we'll find a way to deal with it. Crap, Deva figured that one out a long time ago against DSF. If he can do that against MK and Snake than we can do it against DK too.
I'm not saying DK isn't good, or that Link isn't bad, but I really just am tired of all this reinforcment of the obvious.
edit: lulz @ hylian. that made me giggle.
Put simply, I don't give a rip if a character has a hundred and three little things they can do against Link, we'll find a way to deal with it. Crap, Deva figured that one out a long time ago against DSF. If he can do that against MK and Snake than we can do it against DK too.
I'm not saying DK isn't good, or that Link isn't bad, but I really just am tired of all this reinforcment of the obvious.
edit: lulz @ hylian. that made me giggle.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
but your missing the point, if dk needs to win mentally 2-3 times to take off a stock, link has to win 5-6, you're at a disadvantage. which is why i made that whole long post, people were saying link had the advantage, when he really doesn't. now, is the matchup unwinnable? no, but dk does have the advantage
Ray_Kalm
Smash Master
Donkey Kong does have less 'hard situations' that he can get caught in, but it stills requires him to mentally think of what do next. Link may be at a disadvantage, but that doesn't mean that he can't counter "each" and everything that Donkey Kong pulls out on him.
Don't care, whoever got this stickied I'm not updating. I have better things to do with my time.
The DK match-up is right, talk to Deva/Izaw/Arkive/Blubba. I'm not going to change it. Nintenjoe is going to do a decent job with match-ups from here on out. If they want this guide reposted NintenJoe has the .txt files.
Go away, I'm done.
The DK match-up is right, talk to Deva/Izaw/Arkive/Blubba. I'm not going to change it. Nintenjoe is going to do a decent job with match-ups from here on out. If they want this guide reposted NintenJoe has the .txt files.
Go away, I'm done.
Legan
Smash Lord
Yea he did stop playing a while back but him along with Darkrain had outstanding DK's. Hell be back in the smash scene soon. Ripple is in my crew so I do understand this matchup pretty well and I know of links disadvantage. The matchup goes alot like links other matchups but alot of people think it's in favor of link because of his decent projectile game and the lack of alot of good DK players.
Onomanic
Heaven Piercer
D: Well cya Bouse. Nice posting with ya.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
again, missing the point, all i'm saying is that dk has to guess right much less than link to win, meaning dk has the advantage
all characters require mental play, some characters just have to guess right a whole lot less. great example would be dedede, he just has to read right and land one grab to ko several characters, whereas captain falcon has to read pretty much everything the other player does
also, Legan, is it just me or are all the people who quit in april-june coming back?
Blubba_Pinecone
Smash Ace
Bigfoot is valid yeah.
But I don't think the amount of guesses needed is a very good point. I'll keep my reasons to myself since I know probably no one will agree with me.
But I don't think the amount of guesses needed is a very good point. I'll keep my reasons to myself since I know probably no one will agree with me.
Matt07
Smash Master
Bouse did a really good job of handling this Thread. Are you guys going to keep the information you have so far, and pick up where he left off?
I'm interested. May or may not agree, but I'm still interested.
@Matt: Bouse will NOT update this thread whatever we do.
So what we would need to do is start an entire new thread and copy-paste info from here to that new thread.
I have time to create and update such a thread BUT:
A) With all the discussions and disagreements I wouldn't know what to put on the front page for the character.
B) Organization is not my forte.
C) Smash is not my forte. I love it but I suck.
BUT if people really want me to, and Bouse is agreeable to me copying all of his information, I would be willing to start an entire new thread for Character Match-Ups.
If nobody wants me to though I'm okay with that, because after all I am spammy, stupid, cocky, unknowledgeable in any subject of Smash, unknowledgeable in any subject outside of Smash, etc.
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
I'm doing this already guys, you don't need to. I've got it covered...
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
forgot to clear this up
legan, i don't know if ripple has done it to you yet, but if you ledge stall with zair, dk's dsmash will stage spike you, it's quite satisfying
what i said was, while you wait on the ledge, the fsmash will hit you off. hanging on/near the ledge vs dk will get you hit by the fsmash or stagespiked by the dsmash.
legan, i don't know if ripple has done it to you yet, but if you ledge stall with zair, dk's dsmash will stage spike you, it's quite satisfying
Legan
Smash Lord
No he hasnt pulled that one off yet, I guess it would be possible to do but I always make sure that I have my invinciblity frames when Im being edguarded. He does some other crazy stuff though, including an annoying wall of bairs. Dont get me started on the reverse donkey punches
G1G4 G0N0RRH34
Smash Journeyman
lmfao the title is too good.
i love the link boards. Hylian should main Link.
i love the link boards. Hylian should main Link.
Zezima0123
Smash Apprentice
Wow! Great! You'll see me viewing this often! Great bro thanks!
You could have not stickied a topic when the OP didn't ask for it.
NintenJoe is handling match-ups from this point on. If you want to start a discussion thread for it, I would consider doing it elsewhere.
...
*****es.
Zezima0123
Smash Apprentice
Hm...is Captain Falcon his main? I've heard good stuff about him and Captain Falcon.
Dingding123
Smash Journeyman
I can vouch for that, I've seen his G&W in tourneys down here...it's friggin crazy...
Great guide btw, I check here whenever I'm havin trouble with one of Link's matchups.
ADHD
Smash Hero
Bouse, you are amazing. *Hugs*
I apologize for thinking that this thread was useful enough to be stickied.
Jesus.
Can you change the title please?
- Status