IDK my BFF Navi?

[Swordplay]

Can we move to the next character......it seems G&W is pretty much done

 

[Deleted member]

Ah, yes that makes sense. Moves decay even if they don't make contact?

moves are added to the decay list when they connect with the opponent

hitting an opponent's shield does not decay the move
missing does not decay a move
attacking the air does not decay a move

hopefully that helped

 

[Bouse]

Can we move to the next character......it seems G&W is pretty much done

Hey.

Mother ****er.

Yeah you.

Some of us have **** to do.

Most guides do one a week, and I had **** to do this week. Some weeks I'll blaze along and do 2-3 match-ups, others you guys can deal with.

 

[Swordplay]

ZOMG Sorry.......

jeez....next time i won't write and drink....

 

[Metro Knight]

Game and Watch is an easy match up compared to Kirby.

 

[Metro Knight]

Like, with Kirby can you add the dthrow-uair-dthrow-air combo? It also does like 50% damage, and I am pretty sure there isn't a thing Link can do about it other than self inflicted bomb pain that is hopefully mutual. Like how high of a percentage do you have to do to not get comboed like that? Like if I have 20% damage am I safe from that combo?

 

[Darkest-Link]

Dair, but ive only faced my sister doing that tecnique u just talked about so maybe shes just not doing it right

 

[p0ser]

Just to clarify, it's the forward throw to up air combo, not the down throw. down throw is much riskier on someone such as link

 

[Deleted member]

Just to clarify, it's the forward throw to up air combo, not the down throw. down throw is much riskier on someone such as link

true,kirbys usually start out with the gonzo combo (fthrow > uair >fthrow > uptilt > bair) and then once you're out of combo %'s (~50%) they tilt and grab you a lot till about 100% and then they attempt to kill you

at ~50% is when you strike, because kirby goes on a "damage drought" and can't really do anything too harsh to you

 

[p0ser]

I agree, kirby doesn't have many options to approach, save the back air which is out ranged by a plethora of link's moves. The gonzo combo is one of the few options to rack up damage (assuming the kirby can actually get close enough to grab) before having to poke and counter hit in the 50% range.

 

[Bouse]

I'll put it on my infinitely compiling list of things to do.

 

[Anonano]

Getting the grab isn't actually all that hard. Because of Link's lag after he attacks a good Kirby can usually land the grab anyway. Unless you're facing a Link that absolutely refuses to use any laggy moves at all (which leaves, like, bair, nair and jabs) or is exceptionally good at spacing then you can easily shield into the combo. Then it is rather easy to knock Link off the edge *hammercoughcough* and dair gimp him. :D Easy death, only about 70% damage needed. That's the way I got killed all three times at the tournament I went to, lol.

 

[Metro Knight]

Deva is pretty strict with the moves he uses, I think for Link's to succeed versus people who love to grab, you have to play like that. F-tilt is a good move sometimes. I should go watch Arkive's Videos.

 

[Metro Knight]

Lol, I'm not sure if this is comforting or not. Anyways, like blu link, I have a ton of trouble with G&W. I think it's because of my style of play. Firstly, I like the sword over the projectiles, and I use zair to space or to set up more things with the sword (seriously, I love Link's tilts). Second, I've been told I play defensively. I dunno how you play defensively with the sword, but I apparently do. Third, I'm a fan of Link's shorthop aerials.
.

I dont have any trouble with gaw. Stay out of his combo/juggling moves, and work on your recover game because he can gimp you. Out of jab I usually grab and jab to keep my dsmash and dair fresh. Play smart and dont do anything stupid.

ok, so i consistently play a GaW with Link like everyday. If you are playing a really good GaW, its a must that you learn how to spot dodge. If you can spot dodge his dair, its really effective to follow it up with a jab cancel, or a full jab combo to throw him off. otherwise, he might use a Dsmash which is really fast, and you're screwed. Also, stick to your projectiles, especially your bombs. A good GaW will use bair, which racks up damage, and has high priority. I find it useful to spot dogde it and follow with a jab cancel, or just throw a bomb. Zair isnt very useful here, but if you can use it, you should. Link's Dsmash can kill GaW at a relatively low percentage, so use that out of a jab cancel to KO him. Gale guarding will not work here, but if GaW is low enough, then a Zair edge guard should do the trick. Also, if GaW uses his Uair to keep you afloat, its pretty useful to throw down a bomb to throw him off. Otherwise, he may use an Usmash when you finally land. And if you can, avoid being grabbed. A good GaW will use the down throw, then a Dsmash, with effective results. I'd consider playing defensively. Let him come to you, and you run the show. All of his smashes can take you out relatively early, especially his Usmash, but it is slow, so dodge it and deal some damage.

Not a super rough time. It's kind of like playing Meta Knight. G&W's aerials have mega priority, but Link's grounded attacks have more priority of G&W's. Spacing is important, especially when G&Ws in the air. If he lands a Bair on you, you'll recieve a considerable amount of damage. Craq Walking and Pivot Boosting are good in this match and so is Jab Cancelling. Zair is hard to land on G&W because he's somewhat small and floaty, but it isn't useless.

I don't know, I don't fight many good G&Ws, but the ones I do fight don't pose much of a problem for me. I would say 50:50 or 55:45 in G&W's favor. Just stay out of the air and you'll do fine.

To sum up what people thought of the match - up

GaW seems like a hard match up at first, but later on you will realize he is actually one of Link's easier match ups.

Since most people seem think this, I would say GaW is around a 60:40 match-up for Link. Once you get used to avoid a few nasty nasty moves and combos GaW has, it isn't the toughest match up for Link.

Does anyone have a good video versus an awesome GaW? At some point in time, I will post like 10 of them versus a decent GaW, but I feel like this is a 1-sided thread and we definitely need some bad *** Game-n-watch to feel us in on how he thinks about the Link v. GnW matchup.

 

[Darkest-Link]

the problem with grabbing Link is hes a master of projectiles and is therfore harder to grab than most.

 

[Steel]

hi

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5506627

 

[NintenJoe]

hi

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5506627

...........hey?

 

[Steel]

We're discussing Link and like to directly communicate with the other boards so we can settle on a ratio. Don't be shy, we don't bite.. unless you're dumb.

Thanks.

 

[Bouse]

He was actually after the upcoming match-up... thanks for saving me some time. G&W along with Marth will be in print by Wednesday most likely. Sadly have tons of labs, and essays to type up. Should have them done by tomorrow which will give me time to get ahead of the curve so I won't have to scramble to get this **** done.

 

[NintenJoe]

He was actually after the upcoming match-up... thanks for saving me some time. G&W along with Marth will be in print by Wednesday most likely. Sadly have tons of labs, and essays to type up. Should have them done by tomorrow which will give me time to get ahead of the curve so I won't have to scramble to get this **** done.

jesus, Bouse! If you have that much sh*t to do, I think the Link community can wait until the weekend for your match-ups! I don't want you to fail because you're going out of your way to help us!

 

[MattV1]

Small suggestion, anyone think we should try to come up with counter-pick stages for each character?

 

[Bouse]

I was leaving that up to blu link, since his thread is more about stage discussion.

 

[Onomanic]

CPs against other characters is kind of out of my place. Although the stages are examined and advantages and disadvantages are found, I don't do CPs against specific characters. That's like a whole thread on it's own. Like a character a week, a stage a day. That's nuts. It would take months for the whole thread to be done. Sorry out of my league.

 

[DanGR]

I just read through it. Wow. Great guide man. I'm jealous.

 

[Swordplay]

Counterpick every character on norfair.

Except for marth. Marth can actually play on norfair.

Try RC for marth.

 

[Darkest-Link]

I still dunno whether we should still keep this going, its all of our opinions. While its good to have more than 1 its still incorrect look at the tier list for example

SSB tier list

Pikachu

Kirby

Ness

Fox

Captain Falcon

Jigglypuff

Mario

Yoshi

Donkey Kong

Luigi

Samus

Link

Now thats the REAL tier list but this is what people though the character list would look like b4 tiers

Fox/Ness (kinda tied

Fox/Ness

Samus

Link

Kirby

Luigi

Captain Falcon

Mario

Donkey Kong

Pikachu

Yoshi

Jigglypuff


drastic difference between the 2.......im just saying perhaps we should leave this to the smash backroom

 

[Bouse]

CPs against other characters is kind of out of my place. Although the stages are examined and advantages and disadvantages are found, I don't do CPs against specific characters. That's like a whole thread on it's own. Like a character a week, a stage a day. That's nuts. It would take months for the whole thread to be done. Sorry out of my league.

So what you're saying is it's in my territory?

**** me sideways .

 

[Metro Knight]

Link was really bad in the first SSB. LIke, you could just get thrown off by Ness at like 13%. I mean, that was really bad. I can win with him, but I also played like 5000 games of SSB. It is fun to go back and play those, Link's Up-B recovery is like the Ice Climbers side-B recovery.

 

[NintenJoe]

So what you're saying is it's in my territory?

**** me sideways .

I planned on releasing counterpick stages for my charact4er match-up. So, I'm ok with it...

 

[sasook]

I planned on releasing counterpick stages for my charact4er match-up. So, I'm ok with it...

.....>_>

Unnecessary character matchups..........counterpick stages............honestly man you do too much work lol

 

[Bouse]

You do that, less work for me ^_^.

Edit: Sorry about not getting those match-ups done though. People are too ****in' needy, and I needed to play the game some. Otherwise I may actually forget how things work O_o.

 

[NintenJoe]

Unnecessary character matchups..........counterpick stages............honestly man you do too much work lol

"unnecessary", maybe, but every good character guide that I've seen completely covers every aspect of a character's metagame, icluding match-ups. Sure, I may be a workaholic, but it gives me something to do

 

[4Serial]

Don't CP Norfair vs Marth, TL, Wario, and MAYBE GaWs.. GaWs is mega light, but his killing potential is deadly..
Then again, most of his kills come from smash attacks, which is harder to be accurate on a stage like Norfair, but his f-air becomes unpunishable lol

Wario's aerial game is a beast, just no

Norfair gives Link more recovery options, and a stronger projectile game, and low percent kills with d-air and stuff. TL has a better projectile game, and his u-air goes through your d-air......... what the ****ing hell. Not only that, his u-air is better than Link's in every single way. It comes out a lot faster, it's actually stronger for some reason, and it has much less lag.

 

[ShieryuSilvr]

Don't CP Norfair vs Marth, TL, Wario, and MAYBE GaWs.. GaWs is mega light, but his killing potential is deadly..
Then again, most of his kills come from smash attacks, which is harder to be accurate on a stage like Norfair, but his f-air becomes unpunishable lol

Wario's aerial game is a beast, just no

Norfair gives Link more recovery options, and a stronger projectile game, and low percent kills with d-air and stuff. TL has a better projectile game, and his u-air goes through your d-air......... what the ****ing hell. Not only that, his u-air is better than Link's in every single way. It comes out a lot faster, it's actually stronger for some reason, and it has much less lag.

Yeah, besides recovery, the uair is the only thing TL has on Link

 

[NintenJoe]

Don't CP Norfair vs Marth, TL, Wario, and MAYBE GaWs.. GaWs is mega light, but his killing potential is deadly..
Then again, most of his kills come from smash attacks, which is harder to be accurate on a stage like Norfair, but his f-air becomes unpunishable lol

Wario's aerial game is a beast, just no

Norfair gives Link more recovery options, and a stronger projectile game, and low percent kills with d-air and stuff. TL has a better projectile game, and his u-air goes through your d-air......... what the ****ing hell. Not only that, his u-air is better than Link's in every single way. It comes out a lot faster, it's actually stronger for some reason, and it has much less lag.

I wasn't planning on saying "CP Norfair for every character", but you bring up several good points.

 

[Darkest-Link]

Link was really bad in the first SSB. LIke, you could just get thrown off by Ness at like 13%. I mean, that was really bad. I can win with him, but I also played like 5000 games of SSB. It is fun to go back and play those, Link's Up-B recovery is like the Ice Climbers side-B recovery.

I know this but you see thats the tier list that most people considered true (the fake one)

 

[sasook]

@Darkest-Link: No one was talking about old tier lists. Why'd you bring it up? We're discussing counterpick stages, stop posting stuff not related to the current discussion.



As for CP'ing against Marth - I say go Yoshi's Island

 

[NintenJoe]

As for CP'ing against Marth - I say go Yoshi's Island

Thats a good idea, seeing as Link can use stage bombing to help himself recover on that stage, but I'm actually in favor of CPing a stage like Pirate Ship or Green Hill Zone against Marth. Pirate Ship and GZH both help Link counter Marth's ability to easily counter Link's terrible recovery without exploiting Marth's amazing aerial game. But, IDK, Yoshi's Island also gives Link the option to use the ledges to his advantage and jab lock.

 

[sasook]

I can see where you're coming from, but I've had countless experiences on Pirate Ship against Marth where you're in the water, he's in the water...........and spike.

 

[Metro Knight]

I can see where you're coming from, but I've had countless experiences on Pirate Ship against Marth where you're in the water, he's in the water...........and spike.

I actually haven't died to a Marth spike in the water. I just keep jumping after he spikes me "While i am swimming" and i never die. So, not sure, i definitely get hit really deep into the water though. However, Toon Link's spike will kill you. I guess I just got lucky versus Marth's spike? Maybe spam jump after getting spiked and it will prevent it.




So Bouse, after GnW can we do Marth -> Ike -> Earthboys -> Sonic. I think these forums are already doing these match ups so we could have some decent conversations going back in forth about this match up that reflect both sides of the argument pretty well.

What does everyone else think? Does anyone have requests? I was just going off of what match-ups would be most convient for Bouse. Also if Bouse is to busy perhaps someone else could start a new thread concerning just one of these characters, and we could stick with Bouse's format and get the data for him?

Anyways' just shooting some info out there.