I am really not excited for this game any more - possible spoilers

[TheBuzzSaw]

Stating that some of the most voted characters should be in the game ruins my credibility? Okaayyyy mannn. Whatever you say.

Going on to say that the man who knows what he's doing... doesn't know what he's doing... is what destroys your credibility. The game is not designed by public opinion. You can disagree with his decisions all you want, but you have an incredibly warped view of the game development process.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Can I be that guy who's more disappointed by the stage list than anything wrong with the roster or mode choice?

Like, the game cut out a lot of stuff, but honestly who gave a damn about masterpieces or those stadium modes you played for five minutes to unlock a trophy and then promptly forgot about?

And 76+ characters with everyone back? And everyone plays well? Yeah okay, I'll be "disappointed". If "disappointed" means "hyped beyond all reason".

But the stage list. The stages feel dry. The number of new stages in the base game can be counted on two hands, and you'll only need a third when the DLC is over. I would have gladly sacrificed half the returning stages, even older favorites like Brinstar depths, if it meant we got twice as many new stages. Kirby, DK and especially Sonic direly could have used new stage representation. Did we need Hanenbow or 75m or freakin' Green Hill AND Windy Hill? No, we didn't. I'd even take the stage count being lower if it meant more new stuff.

That's really it. I'm not going to say the game can do no wrong, but I'm also not going to let perfect be the enemy of good enough. December 7th can't come soon enough.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well, being fun to use is something rather subjective, and most importantly, something that can apply to anyone. I mean, looks really fun to use. It's seems fun to simply run with it to begin with. I think that we can trust Sakurai and the smash team on one thing: it's to make fun movesets.

And yeah, Geno being a classic character... Well, I'd disagree with it too. Maybe because I'm european, but I don't think Mario RPG had that much of an impact on the Mario franchise as a whole (although it spawned the other RPGs later).

 

[KingofPhantoms]

God i hate quoting these long posts lol

He doesnt know what hes doing because hes not adding enough modes beyond the basic smash modes. Break the targets should be back in full swing, and so should board the platforms - with multiplayer versions incorporated as well. Get rid of that dumb spirits mode. thats a waste of space and time. And bring in new things like smash ball (soccer/basketball/voleyball type games). The smash engine can do so much more than just be a fighting engine.

"I don't like this new mode, they should bring in modes that I want instead!"

That's basically, what you're saying, here.

I'd actually really like Break the Targets to Return, too. Melee-styled if possible, though I'd consider that very difficult, considering the sheer size of the roster this time. I'm still fine without it, there's plenty more to enjoy from the game without a few of it's past challenge mini-games. Spirits won't please everyone, yeah, but I'm personally looking forward to it. Plenty of other people are, too, and among them are many who have accepted the fact that Break the Targets and Board the Platforms won't be returning, and ultimately become content with it.

And ya, not adding characters like Geno, Dixie kong, skull kid, isaak, waluigi or banjo means he doesnt know what hes doing. he really really doesnt. It has nothing to do with what characters I want... it has to do withthe characters EVERYONE wants. I want goku and scorpion in the game, but i can understand if they dont make the cut. I'm talking about ESSENTIAL characters here. So i repeat - ya he has no idea wtf hes doing. Hes just a lunatic that coincidentally makes games.

I'm no expert on copyright, nor one on the negotiation process that Nintendo and other game companies go through when trying to get a third-party character into Smash, but I don't think it takes much to realize that Geno could be a very hard character to get. You have no clue if Sakurai tried to add him, only for Square to have fought about their rights to Geno, didn't want him included or insisted on adding a different character instead of him. That means the issue may very well be out of Sakurai's control. Negotiations for the character very well might not be simple, even now. Also, keep in mind that Sakurai has stated that he wanted to add Geno as far back as Brawl. If that didn't materialize in Smash 4 either, and still won't in Ultimate, then I'd say it's pretty damn likely some complications arose, if Sakurai even had the time to try adding him. Negotiations for Banjo and Kazooie could have similar complications if they were ever considered.

Furthermore, Geno is pretty well known and beloved in some parts of the gaming world....but he's also obscure in many other parts. And he's irrelevant, there's no arguing that. Lots of people want him, lots of people don't want him at all, and lots of people are indifferent to him. The same can be said about Skull Kid. I say that as someone who supports the character, by the way. Some folks want Skull Kid; others want Impa, Tetra, a Champion from BotW, hell, even Tingle, more than they want him, if they even want him at all. There's plenty of people who don't.

Stop acting like you speak for every last person in the fanbase.

And im not sure if you know what self entitlement means... my argument was that he should be adding ballot characters in the game.. not characters I personally want. A number of the ballot characters happen to be ones i want, but that is not self indulgent.. have you heard of democracy? Cause thats what this is about. Again, as i mentioned above.. if i was losing my **** over goku and scorpion then you can call me a self indulgent *******.

I really dont understand sakurai defenders. You guys try to shoe-horn any argument you can to try to make people who are upset about sakurais impotence look like jerks. It doesnt make sense. we're paying for a product. obviously we want it to be the best it can be.

Do you actually know what the results of the ballot are?

Yeah, and it's still getting more content via DLC.

Look, the man brought back every veteran, which is something a lot of people wanted. Even those who didn't want every character back are still very happy because it means their mains are back. He also added fan favorites like Ridley, K. Rool, and Isabelle. K. Rool at least got in because of the ballot. Chances are ballot votes factored into Ridley's eventual inclusion, too. He's made plenty of people happy. He's done great work. But just because he missed a few marks doesn't mean he should be insulted and it doesn't mean the entire final product is awful. At the end of the day, you can't please everyone. Even if all the characters you're suggesting here did make the cut, a fair amount of people would still be unhappy. Nobody is obligated to like the game we're getting, no matter how it turns out.

I can't however speak for why most characters who did place high on the ballot (minus Geno and Banjo) wouldn't get in, that's a fair enough point.

Not true at all. This is another silly argument. Sakurai keeps adding the goofiest characters. Brawl and smash4 both could have had better character additions. There are about 3-6 characters in each game that could be replaced with better choices. He should be adding popular characters ALL THE TIME. not random nonsense ALL THE TIME. Screw isabelle, screw piranha plant, screw incinaroar, screw all the echos - add one unique instead of all the echos.

And with that all said, I still would not be so disappointed if it werent for the specific things i highlighted in the op. Read it carefully.

This is entirely subjective. A lot of people wanted Isabelle, a lot of people wanted Incineroar. As an example, the latter had a fairly strong support thread going for on this very site, well before his reveal.

but i was also expecting geno in the place of ****ing piranha plant,

Good grief, when are people going to understand that Piranha Plant did not freaking steal anyone's slot?

I see a number of people agreeing with me and/or seeing where im coming from. Im not looking for an argument. Just stating my opinion and seeing if more ppl have the same feeling.

I should make this clear, some of your criticisms are perfectly valid, and heck, like I said, I'd too prefer to see a few older game modes return, for example. But calling Sakurai a lunatic and claiming that all of his choices are dumb and illogical while also saying that he should add all of your own suggestions to the game is not stating your opinion. Just saying.

 

[Blargg888]

No, it isn't. You don't get it. By the addition of Ken, ruins the game and Cloud overshadows the ** out of the roster. He makes Smash feel Sony-ish and a suck up to other companies. Inkling, Chrom and Incineroar, while Nintendo characters, are still incredibly new faces. We needed more REAL historic Nintendo icons. This game is strictly about continuing the "Allstar" concept and I still need to brace my well being for possibly EVEN MORE third party characters.

I'm sorry but I just cannot reason with that ** you wrote. Dixie Kong and Skull Kid WERE SUPPOSE TO BE IN. I don't care what you or anyone who says otherwise. You users who share that statistics you've writing are crazy.

If It wasn't for the massive epitome of returning stages, this wouldn't even be Smash to me.

So, Inkling and Chrom are 3 and 6 years old respectively.

Remember, just because Smash features a lot of old characters doesn't mean they were all that old when they were added.

If 6 years really is your threshold for "Too soon" then that creates a lot of problems, because you're basically saying that:

Fox
Ness
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Pichu
Ganondorf
Sheik
Young Link
Roy
Toon Link
ZSS
Ike
Lucas
Lucario
Greninja
Dark Pit
Lucina
Robin
Shulk
Corrin
Bayonetta
Inkling
Chrom
Isabelle
and Incineroar
were added too soon/weren't historic enough upon addition.

As for your point about "All Stars", thing is, being an old or classic character is not the only thing that makes an "All Star".

Being an All Star generally just refers to being a part of a group of outstanding people or characters in general. Given that Chrom is the protagonist of the game that saved Fire Emblem (whether people like it or not). I'd say he's an All Star.

Isabelle is a mascot character from a game that sold over 11 Million copies, and she went on to be promoted alongside Mario and Link in promotional material, even going so far as to become a character in Mario Kart. I'd say she's an All Star too.

Inkling is the face of a brand new Nintendo IP that upon release received high praise from critics and fans, and immediately became a popular request for Smash Bros., even getting their own Update trophy in Smash 4. Both the original and its sequel are in the top 10 best selling games on the Switch and Wii U respectively. Not to mention that Splatoon 2 actually exceeded 2 Million sales in Japan. I'd say they're an All Star as well.

Furthermore, something being historic isn't just a matter of time. To be historic is to be important, memorable, or significant to history, whether it be actually or potentially. And I'd say that all of these characters meet that standard.



For the point about Cloud, arguably, the opposite is true. Cloud is the only character from his franchise, only has one stage, which aside from hazards, is a Battlefield clone, no new remixes, only two music tracks, no items, no trophies, no spirits, and no Assist Trophies, he really has nothing except himself.
He arguably has some of the least presence in Smash out of all characters ever added. The only character that I can think of that really lacks as much as he does is R.O.B., and that's it really.



For the point about Dixie and Skull Kid, you don't have any proof of that, so I'm not really sure where you're coming from with that claim.



As a final point, using Incineroar and Chrom as an argument of "characters that are too recent" isn't a very good example, because Pokemon and FE characters in Smash have always been based primarily on recency. Even Mewtwo and PT were based on recency, given that their inclusions into Smash coincide with The First Movie and FRLG. The only true exception is Marth himself.

In fact, Chrom in particular is not a good example because he actually breaks this trend, as he is not from the most recent Fire Emblem game. He's from the 13th, whereas the most recent Fire Emblem game is the 15th (Echoes) or the unreleased 16th (Three Houses).



This all being said, to reiterate:

I'm not saying you can't be disappointed, or that you can't hate the game or the characters. You can.

BUT.

None of what you're claiming really seems to have any truly reasonable or factual basis, and some of your claims actually contradict the truth.
So it can be difficult to understand where you're coming from.

 

[Quillion]

it has to do withthe characters EVERYONE wants.

Couldn't let this slide.

 

[UserKev]

That's a very silly overreaction. And you are being extremely unreasonable to the effect of Ken's inclusion into the roster.
It's ironic how you claim that you can't reason with what the other user wrote when your first paragraph clearly establishes to anyone who reads it that you lack any maturity or capacity to do so.

Your butt hurt that I don't approval of the route Smash is going. Your clearly using the concept of maturity to your defense. I don't give a rat's a** if I lack any maturity to you or the like. You can take it however you so please, bruh. Honestly, I can actually imagine you as the perfect henchmen for Sakurai. Haha No hate tho. Sakurai is a legend.

 

[Quillion]

UserKev and BronzeGreekGod :

I'm done with this thread. Goodbye.

 

[Aetheri]

Geno was never leaked. That was just speculation, and its upsetting cause hes very popular, sakurai wants him in the game, he'd fit in perfectly, hes a classic character who should be revived, and he'd be fun AF to use. You're making assumptions about what im saying.

Leaks, Rumours Speculation Whatever! It's all boils down to the same thing that I'm talking about "Expectations"...my point was that you're setting expectations and when those expectations aren't met then you got upset by it. That's not something to get upset at Sakurai for. It's his game that he's making, he's the one with creative power over this project and for the most part he's listened to the fans, as we can see with especially. Two characters I might add that have likely placed VERY high on the Smash ballot. (as well as several other newcomers I might add)

Let him have his , for pete's sakes. Probably wasn't going to have a sixth DLC fighter but probably went "what the heck!"

 

[ChronoBound]

The 11 newcomers we received with Ultimate may have been the best choices we could have gotten. There was a lot of diversity with the choices, while you had four newcomers that made their debut during this decade (Isabelle, Incineroar, Inkling, and Chrom), seven of the newcomers have been around for over ten years, six of those for over 20 years, three of those for over 30. Lots of legacy picks.

The complaints about "why is this character that seems popular on my internet forum of choice not playable" is because frankly many of those characters only really exploded after Ultimate's announcement. For example, Skull Kid did not became a big thing until after loz (who at one point did have inside information) and a conspiracy theory about chairs.

There is a lot that Ultimate has given us in terms of newcomer selection. Here is an excerpt from my comprehensive analysis of the Ultimate roster that explains just what Ultimate did, and that despite only adding 11 newcomers, Ultimate is actually still on par with the previous two Smash Bros. titles for new character additions.

Focus of the Roster and Background of Newcomers:

The Ultimate roster had four major motifs running through it:

1. If you were ever a veteran in Smash Bros. you are back.
2. Characters with an incredibly important legacy within their own franchises or to Nintendo as a whole (Ridley, K. Rool, Simon Belmont).
3. Characters that represented characters or software that became extremely prominent after Smash 4’s release (Inkling, Isabelle, and Incineroar, the three I’s).
4. Characters that are both popular and important within their own franchises, but were too similar or popular/relevant enough to made into their own characters (the echoes – Daisy, Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus, Ken).

Despite there only being 11 newcomers for Ultimate, and nearly half of them being the cloniest type of clone fighters (echoes), this roster is being met with less vitriol and bitterness than the ones for Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4.

The biggest point I believe for this is the fact that no veterans were cut. With both Brawl and Smash 4, much of the anger was directed over who got left behind. After Brawl’s release, Mewtwo and Roy ended up being in the Top 10 most wanted characters for Smash 4 (Mewtwo outright in the Top 3). Much of the anger for Smash 4’s roster was again with cuts (Lucas, Wolf, Ice Climbers, and Snake to be specific). Wolf, Ice Climbers, and Snake ended up dominating the ballot and became among the Top 10 most wanted newcomers for the next installment.

With Ultimate, Sakurai made the impossible possible, he brought every single veteran. He made a cryptic comment saying that “we believe this is what the fans wanted”. Sakurai was likely aware much of the anger about Brawl and Smash 4 was about who was left behind as opposed to who did not make it in. I would not be surprised if even Pichu performed well on the ballot. The overwhelming performance for Wolf, Snake, and Ice Climbers on the ballot (as well as how overwhelmingly requested Mewtwo and Roy were during pre-Smash 4) were likely one of the main factors for why Sakurai decided against cuts for this time around.

With no one being left behind (indeed with everyone having been brought back), much of the anxiety that historically plagued the speculation scene since 2006 (whom would be cut), did not exist for the remainder of this speculation round since June. No one had to argue who had to be cut to make way for so-and-so’s character of choice. Everyone is here! That has a very nice ring to it.

The elimination of cuts has thus eliminated much of the historical animosity to the final roster (at least for what was seen with Brawl and Smash 4).

However, what about newcomers? There were only 11 of them this time, and of those 11, nearly half are even more cloney than Melee’s six clones were. The case for Ultimate very well could be for quality over quantity. Ridley and K. Rool were by far the biggest historical titans left not yet playable, Simon Belmont represented the one third-party franchise with the most history with Nintendo after Mega Man, and both Inkling and Isabelle were the two biggest Nintendo characters created during the 2010’s. Also, unlike several of Melee’s clones, the five echoes for Ultimate were all characters whom were popular within their own franchises.

There is also this to keep in mind. Brawl, Smash 4, and Ultimate all added 18 additional characters over the previous game. This is a very curious coincidence, but it shows that in terms of character additions, Ultimate not only is on par with previous games to the franchise, but also vastly exceeds it (since unlike Brawl and Smash 4, it kept all of Smash 4’s veterans).

Brawl:
1, Meta Knight
2. Pit
3. Zero Suit Samus
4. Wario
5. Snake
6. Ike
7. Squirtle
8. Ivysaur
9. Charizard
10. Diddy Kong
11. Lucas
12. Sonic
13. King Dedede
14. Olimar
15. Lucario
16. ROB
17. Toon Link
18. Wolf

Smash 4 (base roster):
1. Villager
2. Mega Man
3. Wii Fit Trainer
4. Rosalina & Luma
5. Little Mac
6. Greninja
7. Mii Brawler
8. Mii Swordfighter
9. Mii Gunner
10. Palutena
11. Pac-Man
12. Robin
13. Shulk
14. Bowser Jr.
15. Duck Hunt
16. Lucina
17. Dark Pit
18. Dr. Mario

Now with Ultimate:
1, Inkling
2. Ridley
3. Simon Belmont
4. King K. Rool
5. Isabelle
6. Incineroar
7. Daisy
8. Richter Belmont
9. Chrom
10. Dark Samus
11. Ken
12. Ice Climbers
13. Pichu
14. Young Link
15. Snake
16. Squirtle
17. Ivysaur
18. Wolf

It is a pretty spooky coincidence, but it shows that Ultimate is not poor in terms of character additions to the roster and is on par with what was added for both Brawl and Smash 4, as well as the fact that unlike those two titles, Ultimate kept all of the veterans from the previous title.

Unlike Smash 4, where only a few of the newcomers had a large amount of requests during the previous speculation period (Mega Man, Little Mac, Bowser Jr., and Villager), many of Ultimate’s newcomers were characters whom were popularly requested in previous epochs.

Ridley and K. Rool were absolute titans in terms of requests, especially on the Western side of things during pre-Smash 4 (and Ridley during pre-Brawl and even pre-Melee, K. Rool became a massively requested character after Diddy Kong’s confirmation in August 2007).

Dark Samus was similarly popularly requested during pre-Brawl (and apparently according to Sakurai she also did very well on the Western ballot), and Chrom was popularly requested during pre-Smash 4 (and as with Dark Samus, according to Sakurai he did very well on the ballot among Japanese fans). Daisy has always been a popular character.

The only character that you could say did not get in at all due to popularity this time around is probably Incineroar. Simon Belmont is the most recognizable and popular of the Belmont clan, and Richter is the next most popular after him (due to Symphony of the Night, and the re-releases/remixes of Rondo of Blood).

Indeed, the whole motif of Ultimate was a celebration of the entire Smash Bros. series up until this point. There are only four new stages for Ultimate, by far the least amount of the entire franchise (though the game has a whopping 103 stages altogether). Ridley and K. Rool were both characters who have been very heavily requested for over ten years, and it was fitting that both Chrom and Dark Samus were revealed together (both characters who seemed to have missed their chance forever when they failed to get into Smash 4 and Brawl respectively).

 

[Tollhouse]

What im saying has nothing to do with leaks!
This is getting frustrating because people keep assuming everything has to do with leaks. Im basing everything on the ballot. I didnt believe any leaks, except for Vergebens leaks which turned out to be true.

In your opening post for this thread, you mentioned the possibility of Steve getting in, Banjo not looking like he's in, and the possibility of someone from Monster Hunter being a newcomer. That's all information with no backbone. I know I used the word "leakers" for the lake of a better term, (I'm aware of the difference of a leak and a rumor) but I am talking about all the fake news we see in social media claiming this said character is going to be in without any sort of evidence to back it up. Your post made it seem pretty clear that these kinds of rumors have played a part in why you're disappointed. It totally makes sense to be disappointed with information coming from Sakurai or Nintendo, but when it's based off mere speculation or rumors? That doesn't seem logical to me because neither have been confirmed to be true or false.

And how can you base your speculations on the ballot when we haven't even see in it? Like I have a big hunch that Ridley was on there but I have no way of proving it because it was never made public. It's all a wild guess. You're pretty much speculating off of another speculation.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I really do think people should play the game before making some judgments on it. Let's see how much the loss of the various modes actually impacts the game, if Spirits is a decent alternative to Subspace when all said and done, how much features are missed, and if the characters play the ways we want them to. I think it's far too early to make any significant judgment on Ultimate except in terms of roster and stage list. Those are the known quantities so to speak when it comes to Smash games, and even then we do have new content that most people in this thread haven't played yet.

The recent announcement that Ultimate had gone gold and Sakurai talking about the new characters made it clear that Incineroar was another one of his personal picks. He wanted to make a wrestler character, so we got him when he is probably the most questionable Pokemon pick since Jigglypuff and outclassed by the other two starters in terms of popularity. Sakurai should absolutely be allowed to express his creativity, and that simple announcement makes Incineroar feel less like a forced character (a fact which I think he kind of earned by way of his move set when we first saw it). This is to say, all of the newcomers we got do make sense for some reason or another, as either fan favorites, recent characters, logical clones, or just simply Sakurai saw something in certain characters. And indeed, with the returning veterans, Smash Ultimate actually does a better job of including new characters than past games since the past two still cut characters in the process of adding to the game.

That said, again, Smash Ultimate is primarily based around older content. Lots of that content has been polished, changed, or redone. But if you're disappointed by having comparatively little new to play with, I would understand that notion even if I think with something like Smash that shouldn't be SUCH a huge deal. But if you got nothing character wise you wanted for this game, it's going to be harder to justify hype. And those people can exist. I don't like the people dismissing disappointment for the sake of their own satisfaction. This game may have a lot of content, but if what's new doesn't interest you, perhaps a person is better suited to sticking with the past entries... I mean, again, I think you're missing a whole lot of game in the process and denying the potential for anything of this game to excite you, but that's your prerogative as a Smash consumer.


Also, I know our thread poster isn't handling this properly, but can we not be assholes about who does and doesn't like content. Making generalizations like Stadium modes not mattering or everyone should like the game for the sheer amount of content doesn't come off any better than his claims. Games can have tons of content and none of it be interesting, and again I THINK it is this time around, but others may not.

Similarly, we don't know how the ballot exactly performed, but we do have polls and support movements of the time to try and figure out what might have done well. I know the response, "Those only represent a niche portion of the community and therefore are not valid." To that I say, if so, please stop bringing up the ballot. They're the best we have to try and even talk anything about the ballot other than the handful of characters Sakurai has mentioned were requested, and honestly most of what we've seen has been pretty spot on with the polling as we've gotten the likes of Snake, Wolf, Ice Climbers, Inkling, and King K Rool. The ballot hasn't been ignored in that way, but also our polls indicate that, so it's not completely unreasonable to say that the polls we've been using are inaccurate and can't be used...


Finally, look I know it gets irritating when people say characters are garbage or someone acts super entitled about their inclusion/whatever. Calling fan favorites the likes of "nobodies" and "literal whos" in response to OP doesn't come off any better than his own condemnation of characters though... That may be the truth, but the point is that these characters have some of the best proof of actual communities and support. They aren't inherently any better than other characters, but more people usually support them or at least have massive threads/polls/fan artwork/etc. to support them. That's why a nobody comes up in conversations about characters, and in some ways, I do think that makes them "more worthy" in a sense. These characters have love and support, so if you're including fan characters, considering them is not only important, but necessary. If we want to get characters in, we have to rally behind certain ones, and we see just how far that can go with someone like King K. Rool who were responsible for resurrecting. Not all characters in Smash games should be fan picks, and yes, our communities can sometimes be the pockets of fandom that can't represent the entirety of the Smash community. That said, generally speaking, I see the most effort and love behind those fan characters, and that's something that should be rewarded a little every game. We've seen that this game with a lot of the picks already, so I don't know how to be super disappointed on that end other than your specific supported character(s) didn't get in, but we do have clear cut proof of him listening to some requests.

Ideally, you'd basically break newcomers into thirds every new Smash game at this point.
1. The most recent breakout stars at Nintendo
2. The highly fan requested characters
3. The characters that Sakurai realizes he can make a unique and interesting move set out of

Use those three categories, and don't lean too heavily into one or the other, and I think you serve to satisfy the most people while representing lots of different pieces of Nintendo history and giving the opportunity for personal artistry in personal picks. Add a fourth third party category if you wish too.

 

[Christian_CAO]

Honestly the real issue is how open developers are these days with sharing information with the consumer. Everyone would be tickled pink if they got teasers rather than real information and had to wait till Dec 7th for the release to see everything that was released. We're spoiled by devs now. Nothing can be spoiled by the internet if they show us everything in the game upfront right? I hate the practice, there's no surprises anymore.

I remember the early days of no information and having to buy nintendo power mags (borrow my friends, or beg folks to let me do chores for a dollar) and strategy guides... not knowing anything about the games added to the experience.

Anyway

This thread went from sharing your opinion to arguing with each other. Keep it civil so that your own thread doesn't get locked due to the nature of your own and others comments. Guys. It's a game. No need to be upset about things not going as we want them to.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Hey, it could be worse.

At least we aren’t getting the original 12 but minus the original locked 4 with a character released bi-monthly via Gatcha system which requires massive amounts of grinding and real world currency. Plus comes with barebones game modes, delayed online, story via update, and plethora of costumes but mostly focusing on Peach..... with content that is tied in with a smartphone version of Smash Ultimate and both are needed to progress in the game and to unlock content through a grinding and expensive Gatcha system which consists mostly of Peach costumes.

My only gripe ...real gripe...like what’s got me all ruffled up is lack of Final Fantasy representation. But that’s understandable cause Square Enix are *****.... but that’s nit actually what’s got me mad. Theuthfully, the only I gripe that I have is that they axed my favorite thing about Smash...

The trophies. I would trade in all the Echoes plus Castlevania content, Incineror, and Isabelle if it would bring back trophies.


That **** did not sit right with my obsessive collecting habits and trying to get 99 of everything. Spirits to me suck and I hate them.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

He doesnt know what hes doing because hes not adding enough modes beyond the basic smash modes. Break the targets should be back in full swing, and so should board the platforms - with multiplayer versions incorporated as well. Get rid of that dumb spirits mode. thats a waste of space and time. And bring in new things like smash ball (soccer/basketball/voleyball type games). The smash engine can do so much more than just be a fighting engine.

Bringing back every character and almost every stage takes time and resources, so the dev team did what they had to do and trimmed down the fat like break the targets, home run and trophies. Its sad but also understandable why they did it, and Sakurai and his team knew what they were doing when taking that course of action. But please tell me more about how you understand the Smash engine so much better than the people who worked on it.

And ya, not adding characters like Geno, Dixie kong, skull kid, isaak, waluigi or banjo means he doesnt know what hes doing. he really really doesnt. It has nothing to do with what characters I want... it has to do withthe characters EVERYONE wants. I want goku and scorpion in the game, but i can understand if they dont make the cut. I'm talking about ESSENTIAL characters here. So i repeat - ya he has no idea wtf hes doing. Hes just a lunatic that coincidentally makes games.

And how do you know "EVERYONE" wants this characters? Of that list, I only wanted Isaac while being neutral towards the rest. I understand those are likable characters and Waluigi but I wouldn't call them essential, and you'd be hard pressed to show me convincing evidence that everyone wanted them enough to move Sakurai's hand. And calling him lunatic over this? Dude, that seems to be going too far, and I question your sanity at this moment so don't throw rocks from your glass house.

And im not sure if you know what self entitlement means... my argument was that he should be adding ballot characters in the game.. not characters I personally want. A number of the ballot characters happen to be ones i want, but that is not self indulgent.. have you heard of democracy? Cause thats what this is about. Again, as i mentioned above.. if i was losing my **** over goku and scorpion then you can call me a self indulgent *******.

Oh, but I do know. You think because you voted for a character it must mean everyone wants them and then overreact when they are not in. You advocate for democracy unless you don't like the results. And besides, while having the ballot is a nice thought for the consumers to have some kind of influence, making a game is not a democratic process. You have a producer, a publisher and a developer who are the creative brains behind the game. Unless you are one of those three, you don't exactly get to tell them what to put in and what to leave out.

And when you say stuff like:

From now on he should ONLY be adding characters from the ballot. What an *******

Chill TFO and just provide the consumers with their fan service. We're paying for the game. Make us happy.

He should be adding popular characters ALL THE TIME. not random nonsense ALL THE TIME. Screw isabelle, screw piranha plant, screw incinaroar, screw all the echos - add one unique instead of all the echos.

That is textbook self entitlement. That term may get misused sometimes, but this is not one of those times.
"ME ME ME!" "Do what I tell you to do!" "You owe me this!" "Screw the devs' creative direction, just add who I demand" are the vibes that they give me.

I really dont understand sakurai defenders. You guys try to shoe-horn any argument you can to try to make people who are upset about sakurais impotence look like jerks. It doesnt make sense. we're paying for a product. obviously we want it to be the best it can be.

To be fair, you are the one who did it to yourself, not us. You are not exactly being reasonable and since you opened a discussion about it, others are naturally going to call you out on that.

Your butt hurt that I don't approval of the route Smash is going. Your clearly using the concept of maturity to your defense. I don't give a rat's a** if I lack any maturity to you or the like. You can take it however you so please, bruh. Honestly, I can actually imagine you as the perfect henchmen for Sakurai. Haha No hate tho. Sakurai is a legend.

Not butthurt, just curious, bud.
I was actually referring to fact that you claim an addition like Ken ruins the roster, which is a silly overreaction. Nothing about that statement is reasonable by any means and does not indicate any neglect on Nintendo's properties as you suggest, but there are unfortunately a good number of people out there who let minor setbacks ruin an enjoyable experience. If you don't care, good, but it would beg the question of why you are partaking in a discussion in the first place; plus "I don't care" or "you don't get it" is the kind of canned response people toss out when they legitimately lack any relevant or smart thing to add in an argument.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Piranha Plant is so much more interesting and fun than any highly requested character circlejerked by the hardcore Smash community. I genuinely mean that. Sorry that you're ungrateful and had unrealistic expectations, OP.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Piranha Plant is so much more interesting and fun than any highly requested character circlejerked by the hardcore Smash community. I genuinely mean that. Sorry that you're ungrateful and had unrealistic expectations, OP.

I mean, you don’t know that until you see how Sakurai implements then. Someone like Ridley may not have had the most original or interesting move set, but as a request I think King K Rool has a pretty damn creative and charming move set even if people had discussed it to death.

I’m not knocking Piranha Plant, just saying don’t knock a character that doesn’t even exist as playable for having an uninteresting move set...

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I mean, you don’t know that until you see how Sakurai implements then. Someone like Ridley may not have had the most original or interesting move set, but as a request I think King K Rool has a pretty damn creative and charming move set even if people had discussed it to death.

I’m not knocking Piranha Plant, just saying don’t knock a character that doesn’t even exist as playable for having an uninteresting move set...

I'm happy that Ridley and K. Rool got in. I'm just saying that I'm glad fans aren't entirely responsible for which characters make it into the roster, otherwise we would have never gotten unique, off-the-wall inclusions like R.O.B., Wii Fit Trainer, or the plant itself.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't appreciate the people who constantly condemn the game for stuff it isn't, as opposed to what it is.

I also don't appreciate the people who insult the subjects of valid complaints either. Defending Piranha Plant should not necessitate insulting Isaac and Geno.

There is a middle ground here, people.




To the OP, you're free to want what you want and think what you think, but your opinion comes off as a bit unfair. Sure, the characters that got in weren't what you wanted, but it should be pretty easy to see they're all pretty beloved. Calling characters lame or stupid or whatever the **** your furry comment was implying doesn't help your complaint. It just makes you look petty, and overly negative.

You also seem to ignore that different people want different things. Yeah, a lot of people are disappointed that say... Geno isn't in, but that doesn't mean that the game is ruined for people because of it. It might be for you, and that's fine. But don't act like other have to be disappointed. Your OP didn't come off that way, but later posts did.

Also... this might be petty of me, but I am not sure how much you know are actually care about Isaac if you can't be bothered to spell his name correctly. Do you want him because you actually want him or because he's just popular? Honest question.

 

[dezeray112]

This is a claim made by Hitagi, who may be a fake.

Are you referring to this quote below because this is the closest I could find and he does not seem to be 100% certain about this:

"I have heard about DQ characters but can't confirm if it's true or not."

 

[Mogisthelioma]

This thread should be closed because it's basically dumping salt on each other for either being disappointed in the game or being hyped for the game.

 

[smashingDoug]

The only thing what is missing for me is Twilight Princess Link.

Botw Link: Idk got to try him myself but looks overhyped to me that. I also hate that his new grunts. less powerful sounding

Young link: if he's in the top tier. then I will probably be called a ***** and the truth hurts

Toon Link: lol

 

[Bolshoi]

Every time I see the OP post, it seems like he's more looking for reasons to not like the game than enjoying it for what it is. Which is a terrible path to take, because there will always be that one character you're mad didn't make it in. If you're not hyped about this game anymore, that's fine. Go be not-hyped about it somewhere else. You've said your piece on this board several times. And at this point I'm convinced you won't be happy unless it's Melee 2.0 with a cast specifically chosen by you.

 

[S_B]

I duno about you guys, but I was really hype about Ultimate when it was revealed, but at this point im really underwhelmed. The game was looking like it was really going to be "ultimate" but its just another regular installment of the game when you really look at it. There are really only 3 HUGE character reveals, with the rest being stupid sakurai choices, and now im hearing the square rep is probably gona be a dragon quest rep, and its been talked about for a while that steve is in the game - not banjo. Plus the lack of interesting game modes is a huge issue as well. Why would i get a game with barely any new content?

Seriously without Geno, Isaak and Skull Kid, or Banjo-kazooie in the game, i dont give a crap about other character additions. The rest is all just fluff. Im tired of Sakurai adding garbage characters that are in no way exciting. Im at the point where i might just stick to playing Project M and not bothering with Ultimate at all.

I'm more excited by the fact that the game is going to shake up competitive viability for all characters than anything. Leaving SSB4 as Bayo/Cloud dominated meant the entire game ended on an extremely sour note.

We need a new competitive SSB game and Ultimate seems to be aiming to do that. Don't be surprised if the first balance patch does a LOT to buff the lower tiers as they're discovered as well.

As for characters, KKR and Ridley are hype AF, but I understand being disappointed in a lack of other fan favorites that didn't make it in. Without KKR and Ridley, I wouldn't be very hyped for this game, either (I'd still be getting it, just nowhere near as hyped).

The final direct was incredibly weak as well. We have to remember that the direct prior to that revealed 5 new characters, one of which blew the needle off the hype meter. Having the last direct be such a weak finish was like having Metallica take the stage first, only to be followed by a crappy cover band afterwards.

You could honestly skip the last direct and probably be MORE hyped for SSBU.

 

[AirShad]

Honestly I was extremely hyped for the this game until about a month ago, and it has nothing to do with any new features/newcomers or anything like that... My gripe is with the small vocal minority of fans who pushed for "canon" with existing characters.

My poor Luigi (my main along with Rock) has now been given a terrible tether grab that by all means "looks cool" but is going to ruin him as we have known him for the last 3 smash games. Don't get me wrong I think the poltergust looks amazing and Nintendo/Sakurai are using it to market for Luigi's Mansion 3, but it sucks that my favorite character in the series will will have his moveset changed when its been the same since basically Melee.

Just venting a bit here but basically my hype was sky high during the Luigi moveset trailer (where they didn't show the grab) and then completely dropped off the face of the earth when I saw his grab.

Thanks Sakurai-san for destroying my guy Green Mario.

P.S. I realize I am probably overexaggerating but its killing me inside.

 

[Battiest Badger]

For me the characters are just right. We should accept that we will NEVER - N-E-V-E-R - have a smash game with all characters we want... We want every character we love on that select screen, but this is never going to happen. I always wanted Toad to be there to complete the Mario team, Dixie Kong to complete the DK Team, more Zelda characters.. Just to feel that I'm seeing every character I care of games I love on that select character screen. But this isn't going to happen, and I think as sooner as we accept that, we will enjoy what they provided with more recognition.

I think this is one of the biggest points we have to remember. You can't shove every Nintendo and third party character into the game. I'm to the point where I want to see characters like Issac, Waluigi, and Banjo-Kazooie, not because I want them necessarily, but because hearing people gripe about them has just gotten so old at this point. Of course, if that were to happen, they'd only be replaced with new requests with the same level of vitriol. (See: King K. Rool, Ridley)

I do find myself wondering for the past two weeks or so, if perhaps Sakurai should have held the "Everyone is Here!" as his trump card the Final Direct. At the time it felt like such a big deal, and he even warned us that there wouldn't be too many newcomers.

As for modes, I like everything that's been added. Spirits seems like a better, melded version of events and Smash Run. I like the idea of both Squad Strike and Smash Down. I definitely like that Stamina's been added to the "Main" Smash modes, if it means we can crank up the Stamina to 999HP and fight our way down to 0. You've got 3 or 4 versions of 100+ base stages. (Regular, Battlefield, Final Destination, Hazards Off).

Smash 4 came out just over 4 years ago, and then added DLC. I don't know when Switch Development began, but this other than the 64-Melee gap, this is the shortest amount of time between games, and it's managed to shove in a boatload of new stuff.

I'd say this game is exactly what it brands itself to be: Ultimate. To say it's anything less is really underselling what Sakurai's team was able to get done in such a comparatively short amount of time.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I wish people would stop mentioning the gap between Smash games as relevant...

It’s the development time that is worth actually noting and this game has been in development for approximately the same amount of time as Brawl and Smash 4 (2.5 years). This isn’t some trancated development cycle and that reasoning gets used way too much by people for different purposes.

 

[osby]

This kind of thread again? If addition of characters you don't like is such a big problem, you might as well play Smash 64.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

This thread should be closed because it's basically dumping salt on each other for either being disappointed in the game or being hyped for the game.

It’s really not that bad. SmashBoards already has a pretty curated space for content, so this isn’t really all that toxic.

I think a couple of threads like these are good to give disappointed people a place to vent. And at least they contain the maybe more worrying aspects of discussion to a thread. With a game as popular as Ultimate, a lot of people really love it. Not giving the opportunity for people to dislike it or voice opinions is bad though and should be considered necessary too.

 

[Battiest Badger]

I wish people would stop mentioning the gap between Smash games as relevant...

It’s the development time that is worth actually noting and this game has been in development for approximately the same amount of time as Brawl and Smash 4 (2.5 years). This isn’t some trancated development cycle and that reasoning gets used way too much by people for different purposes.

Like I said, I was unaware of the development cycle of this game or others. Still, even if the development times were similar, I don't think it undersells anything that the dev team was able to achieve this time around. I know there's not much in terms of new characters or stages, but there's still a lot of content.

I highly doubt this was meant as an attack, but I just want it to be clear that my point was moreso that there's a lot to enjoy here.

One thing I didn't say the first time around was that nobody can tell a person how to enjoy a game, or if you even need to. If a person looks at this game and says "It's not enough," that's fine. Only the individual can decide for themselves whether a game is worth putting the money down. Criticism is fine, even necessary, but sometimes I just wish it were a bit more tempered, because it gets a bit draining at times.

 

[AzureFlame4]

The final direct was incredibly weak as well. We have to remember that the direct prior to that revealed 5 new characters, one of which blew the needle off the hype meter. Having the last direct be such a weak finish was like having Metallica take the stage first, only to be followed by a crappy cover band afterwards.

You could honestly skip the last direct and probably be MORE hyped for SSBU.

This a 1000 times. Switch around the two smash directs and suddenly I imagine a lot of people would be way more hyped up for the game now. Ending on Kencineroar (at the beginning of the direct of all things) and spending a whole segment talking about settings was a horrible way to end things on pre-release. Yes, some people may have found Kencineroar more interesting than what we got on 8.8 but they are in the minority. Nintendo has made a lot of great strides the past few years with the Switch, but marketing still leaves a little to be desired.

 

[S_B]

This a 1000 times. Switch around the two smash directs and suddenly I imagine a lot of people would be way more hyped up for the game now. Ending on Kencineroar (at the beginning of the direct of all things) and spending a whole segment talking about settings was a horrible way to end things on pre-release. Yes, some people may have found Kencineroar more interesting than what we got on 8.8 but they are in the minority. Nintendo has made a lot of great strides the past few years with the Switch, but marketing still leaves a little to be desired.

The other issue is online play.

From the sounds of things, it's possible, no matter how unlikely, to go into the game looking to play with a certain ruleset and yet be matched with players with a partially different ruleset.

For glory may have had its issues, but at least you never queued for it and then got dumped into a game with items or a coin match when you wanted stock.

The fact that this is even possible at ALL is worrisome, and couple it with the fact that we're now PAYING for online play and it stings that much more.

Getting dumped into a match with rules I didn't want to play with even ONCE is too many, what with previously NEVER having to worry about that sort of thing.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

The other issue is online play.

From the sounds of things, it's possible, no matter how unlikely, to go into the game looking to play with a certain ruleset and yet be matched with players with a partially different ruleset.

For glory may have had its issues, but at least you never queued for it and then got dumped into a game with items or a coin match when you wanted stock.

The fact that this is even possible at ALL is worrisome, and couple it with the fact that we're now PAYING for online play and it stings that much more.

Getting dumped into a match with rules I didn't want to play with even ONCE is too many, what with previously NEVER having to worry about that sort of thing.

I agree with this concern, but I'm not super worried due to the fact that, in my experience, those casuals don't go online super often. I recently tested out For Fun mode, and my room never filled up. Meanwhile, For Glory always had matches. I'm willing to bet that, with the exception of the first couple months, the online mode will consist largely of relatively competitive players.

 

[AirMac1]

Geno and Banjo are pipe dream characters and Skull Kid wasn't a major contender during the ballot nor gained any notable relevancy to make him stand out. All 3 missing out isn't a surprise.

Isaac had a chance but he's still part of a series that has been dead for a decade. K. Rool's parent franchise is still alive and kicking despite his absence at the very least.

You mean 8 years.......

 

[meleebrawler]

I agree with this concern, but I'm not super worried due to the fact that, in my experience, those casuals don't go online super often. I recently tested out For Fun mode, and my room never filled up. Meanwhile, For Glory always had matches. I'm willing to bet that, with the exception of the first couple months, the online mode will consist largely of relatively competitive players.

Playing free-for-alls online, especially with randoms just isn't as fun as locally with friends. You have none of the social interactions that temper the usual frustrations of getting ganged up on or blown up by items or whatnot.

And even if you're still super-duper paranoid of possibly getting such a match when you wanted 1v1s, chances are you can just create a battleground (lobby) tailored to host such matches instead.

 

[Wyoming]

You mean 8 years.......

Oh come on now. Let's not play this game.

 

[AirMac1]

Oh come on now. Let's not play this game.

Sorry. I just didn’t know how I should reply to this thread.

 

[Skwrl]

I am completely the opposite. I can't wait until this game comes out. In my opinion, the reason Smash 4 wasn't as popular was because not many people owned a Wii U, and the 3DS version's online was terrible. I greatly enjoyed Smash 4, but didn't get to play it with many friends, because only a few owned a Wii U, and most abandoned the game not long after it came out.
The Switch on the other hand has way more units sold, so more people will play. I can actually play with my friends again. I bought the Switch (Smash Bros edition) just for this purpose.
Maintain a positive attitude, just because some characters you wanted didn't get it, doesn't make it a bad game. We don't know everything there is to know yet.

 

[S_B]

I am completely the opposite. I can't wait until this game comes out. In my opinion, the reason Smash 4 wasn't as popular was because not many people owned a Wii U, and the 3DS version's online was terrible. I greatly enjoyed Smash 4, but didn't get to play it with many friends, because only a few owned a Wii U, and most abandoned the game not long after it came out.
The Switch on the other hand has way more units sold, so more people will play. I can actually play with my friends again. I bought the Switch (Smash Bros edition) just for this purpose.
Maintain a positive attitude, just because some characters you wanted didn't get it, doesn't make it a bad game. We don't know everything there is to know yet.

Yeah, I'm still painfully hyped for this game, mainly for KKR.

 

[Skwrl]

Yeah, I'm still painfully hyped for this game, mainly for KKR.

It hurts me too. Every day I power on my Switch and see SSBU already downloaded...I cry a little bit when I remember that it still can't be played until release day.