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I am really not excited for this game any more - possible spoilers
- Thread starter BronzeGreekGod
- Start date
Blackwolf666
Smash Ace
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Newcommer wise... if Sakurai didn't say from the start to not expect much in that area I'd probably be disappointed. I still wanna see Banjo-Kazooie make it in , Isaac from Gold Sun, and I wouldn't mind seeing Geno get in as well (didn't play much of Super Mario RPG so forgive me for never actively saying I want to see him make it in. Though for the moveset ideas i've seen for him make me think he'd be a pretty cool addition.) For those characters, minus Isaac for obvious reasons, I am going to hold out hope for DLC.
However, I'll agree about the lack of interesting game modes. That too killed some of my excitement. No platforming style adventure mode, no stage builder, no smash run, dont remember if even homerun contest was confirmed, not even a break the targets, and not even anything really that new. All we get is something that seems to take smash tour, event matches and the sticker system form SSE and merge them all together. However, I remember hearing something about new modes that are getting added for free further down the line. Don't remember where I saw/read this so don't quote me.
However, I'll agree about the lack of interesting game modes. That too killed some of my excitement. No platforming style adventure mode, no stage builder, no smash run, dont remember if even homerun contest was confirmed, not even a break the targets, and not even anything really that new. All we get is something that seems to take smash tour, event matches and the sticker system form SSE and merge them all together. However, I remember hearing something about new modes that are getting added for free further down the line. Don't remember where I saw/read this so don't quote me.
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
In regards to Incineroar, it should be noted that Game Freak pushed it harder than Decidueye, which is one of the main reasons why we got Incineroar. Also, Smash Bros. lacked any true wrestling fighters, and Incineroar basically comes the closest to meeting that criteria when you exclude the 3rd party characters, such as Zangief.
KingofPhantoms
The Spook Factor
You're far from obligated to spend money on a game you don't want. It's fine if the majority of the characters don't appeal to you, but...I'm not gonna lie, you're acting really entitled, here. You're missing four characters, a few of whom were very unlikely to begin with, and that's the main reason why you're so dissatisfied with the game? Come on. Cool down for a while and reassess your thoughts, consider lightening up a little. Maybe you'll be able to better appreciate what the game does offer if you do?. I haven't gotten my most wanted newcomer in Smash yet, nor did I get several others that I wanted like Dixie Kong or Skull Kid. Yet I'm thoroughly enjoying just about every other newcomer on the roster (Ridley, K. Rool and Isabelle were easily on my most wanted list) and you don't see me spouting any salt about how Sakurai's choices are somehow illogical and objectively bad.
You're talking about a character from a series that has a huge history with Nintendo's older days and helped codify the Metroidvania genre (
), a character from a massively successful and beloved newer Nintendo IP (), a new character from an already existing and popular Nintendo IP who has endeared it's fanbase and has been pushed by Nintendo in many successful marketing campaigns since her debut (), another popular Pokemon from the newest generation (), and an upgraded Mario mook who's addition is clearly meant to be a joke, put in just for for fun, but is ultimately harmless and has no effect on any other character's inclusion or exclusion (). That's in addition to the new Echo fighters (), who all have merits of their own to warrant getting in, and take little time to develop in comparison to fresh, unique characters, making their additions bonuses that time constraints allowed for and nothing more, and in addition to tremendous fan favorites who've been wanted by the fans for decades (), one of whom hope for was nearly lost after Smash 4, due to Sakurai's own (now no longer true) statements on the character, and whose support base was needlessly and mercilessly mocked over the same size and proportions argument for the longest time, and another who was absent for a decade by the time he finally made another appearance as a fighter in Ultimate. Both fanbases were absolutely dedicated to their characters, and did everything in their power to make their voices heard. I absolutely doubt these two characters would've been included were it not for all their fans' years of support and hard work.
All of these characters each had plenty of reason to be in, so while some of these additions were surprising while others seemed fairly obvious, they all have one thing in common: their inclusions make perfect sense. Aside from Piranha Plant, but again, it's a joke character, one that won't even be on the base roster. It's harmless and didn't have to make sense. So it isn't fair for you to be calling even a single newcomer on the roster a "stupid Sakurai choice".
You don't have to buy Ultimate, but going off of this thread, it honestly sounds as though you think that this game was supposed to cater to every last one of your personal desires and nothing else. Lighten up.
You're talking about a character from a series that has a huge history with Nintendo's older days and helped codify the Metroidvania genre (
), a character from a massively successful and beloved newer Nintendo IP (), a new character from an already existing and popular Nintendo IP who has endeared it's fanbase and has been pushed by Nintendo in many successful marketing campaigns since her debut (), another popular Pokemon from the newest generation (), and an upgraded Mario mook who's addition is clearly meant to be a joke, put in just for for fun, but is ultimately harmless and has no effect on any other character's inclusion or exclusion (). That's in addition to the new Echo fighters (), who all have merits of their own to warrant getting in, and take little time to develop in comparison to fresh, unique characters, making their additions bonuses that time constraints allowed for and nothing more, and in addition to tremendous fan favorites who've been wanted by the fans for decades (), one of whom hope for was nearly lost after Smash 4, due to Sakurai's own (now no longer true) statements on the character, and whose support base was needlessly and mercilessly mocked over the same size and proportions argument for the longest time, and another who was absent for a decade by the time he finally made another appearance as a fighter in Ultimate. Both fanbases were absolutely dedicated to their characters, and did everything in their power to make their voices heard. I absolutely doubt these two characters would've been included were it not for all their fans' years of support and hard work.All of these characters each had plenty of reason to be in, so while some of these additions were surprising while others seemed fairly obvious, they all have one thing in common: their inclusions make perfect sense. Aside from Piranha Plant, but again, it's a joke character, one that won't even be on the base roster. It's harmless and didn't have to make sense. So it isn't fair for you to be calling even a single newcomer on the roster a "stupid Sakurai choice".
You don't have to buy Ultimate, but going off of this thread, it honestly sounds as though you think that this game was supposed to cater to every last one of your personal desires and nothing else. Lighten up.
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EricTheGamerman
Smash Master
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Oh look, a thread on disappointment that turned in to the usual **** show...
I don’t understand why people feel the need to defend the game so damn much when most haven’t played it yet and it’s a product at the end of the day, so you’re allowed to be as disappointed in it as you want. Stop with the ungrateful conversation when people express these sentiments, it always leads to hostility. Yes, people are allowed to hate a game for one thing in it or seemingly missing. Because they are being sold a product, and if the product doesn’t meet their desires, they’re under no obligation to praise it or buy it. Maybe that is just as simple as the absence of one character... maybe it’s the lack of newer content (I’ll admit as someone who has played every Smash religiously except 64 and bought all of the DLC for 4, there is comparatively less new stuff for me to care about. I just happen to like that new stuff). It just depends.
But on the other end of things. We already have a good thread on the disappointment after the Direct immediately dealing with gratefulness and disappointment, so this thread belongs more there. And remember your disappointment doesn’t extend to all people, and you’re preferred characters, even if popular in fan polls and such also do not extend to everyone. Don’t be surprised when people are satisfied with content. And try to avoid insulting people who do enjoy the characters with the claims of garbage.
And quit bloody bringing up relevancy when most of this game proved how pointless an argument that actually was...
Also, Isabelle and Castlevania in Smash weren’t exactly ballot picks, so I don’t know why people keep referring to them as such...
I don’t understand why people feel the need to defend the game so damn much when most haven’t played it yet and it’s a product at the end of the day, so you’re allowed to be as disappointed in it as you want. Stop with the ungrateful conversation when people express these sentiments, it always leads to hostility. Yes, people are allowed to hate a game for one thing in it or seemingly missing. Because they are being sold a product, and if the product doesn’t meet their desires, they’re under no obligation to praise it or buy it. Maybe that is just as simple as the absence of one character... maybe it’s the lack of newer content (I’ll admit as someone who has played every Smash religiously except 64 and bought all of the DLC for 4, there is comparatively less new stuff for me to care about. I just happen to like that new stuff). It just depends.
But on the other end of things. We already have a good thread on the disappointment after the Direct immediately dealing with gratefulness and disappointment, so this thread belongs more there. And remember your disappointment doesn’t extend to all people, and you’re preferred characters, even if popular in fan polls and such also do not extend to everyone. Don’t be surprised when people are satisfied with content. And try to avoid insulting people who do enjoy the characters with the claims of garbage.
And quit bloody bringing up relevancy when most of this game proved how pointless an argument that actually was...
Also, Isabelle and Castlevania in Smash weren’t exactly ballot picks, so I don’t know why people keep referring to them as such...
UserKev
Smash Champion
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No, it isn't. You don't get it. By the addition of Ken, ruins the game and Cloud overshadows the ** out of the roster. He makes Smash feel Sony-ish and a suck up to other companies. Inkling, Chrom and Incineroar, while Nintendo characters, are still incredibly new faces. We needed more REAL historic Nintendo icons. This game is strictly about continuing the "Allstar" concept and I still need to brace my well being for possibly EVEN MORE third party characters.Okay, hold the phone. Let's take a look at the Ultimate newcomers thus far.
We have 12:
Now, let's separate the "fan-favorite/highly requested" characters:
Inkling, Daisy, Ridley, Chrom, Dark Samus, KKR, and Isabelle.
All these characters are heavily loved by fans, and make up 7/12 of the Ultimate newcomers.
Now let's look at "Nintendo" characters:
Inkling, Daisy, Ridley, Chrom, Dark Samus, King K. Rool, Isabelle, Incineroar, Piranha Plant.
All these characters are part of major Nintendo franchises, and make up about 3/4 of the newcomers.
It should be noted that some of these newcomers have special facts about them, such as Chrom being the first FE character since Marth to not be from the most recent FE game, and KKR making his first appearance in 10 years.
Anyway, this leaves us with Simon, Richter, and Ken
That said, Simon Belmont has always been closely associated with olden days NES Nintendo, just like Megaman, so it's not like he's some out of left field 3rd Party choice. He makes sense.
So in terms of 3rd party guests with no super strong relation to Nintendo, we've got Richter and Ken.
1/6 of the newcomers.
I don't understand how you can say that the game "neglects fan favorites" when they make up more than 50% of the new roster.
And how you can say that "This **** was supposed to be Nintendo" when it clearly still is.
You're allowed to be disappointed in the game, but these statements are definitely not true.
I'm sorry but I just cannot reason with that ** you wrote. Dixie Kong and Skull Kid WERE SUPPOSE TO BE IN. I don't care what you or anyone who says otherwise. You users who share that statistics you've writing are crazy.
If It wasn't for the massive epitome of returning stages, this wouldn't even be Smash to me.
BronzeGreekGod
Smash Lord
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Exactly. Theyre advertising crap after crap. How about revitalizing characters and then capitalizing on the new found popularity of that character and their game. Theyre so backwards.
I wish. But I dont know if theres gona be a team as organized as PMDT to mod a game as big as Ultimate. Sakurai should hire the PMDT to make a smash game. He doesnt know wtf hes doing any more. Actually he hasnt known what hes doing since melee.
From what has been going around, the dlc is not looking promising.
You know microsoft is down to play ball with adding banjo to smash right? and you know theres gona be microsoft content in the game right? Facts.
Banjo being originally on nintento and being so iconic and requested should make him be in the game. I dont know why sakurai stopped adding characters from the ballot. From now on he should ONLY be adding characters from the ballot. What an asshole.
why will we never have a smash game with all the characters we want? Sakurai had a smash ballot. He knows the most popular characters. His current goal should be to one by one add all the top 10-20 characters into the game while sticking in one or 2 wacky characters he chooses. I dont know why he insists on adding stupid crap to the game over and over. Like he adds nonsense WAYYY too aggressively. Chill TFO and just provide the consumers with their fan service. We're paying for the game. Make us happy.
To be clear... im not disappointed and underwhelmed just because of the base roster. Im disappointed because a number of characters are deconfirmed cause of their inclusion as assist trophies (unless we find out assists can be upgraded in dlc which i believe is REALLYYY wishful thinking and will not happen). And im further disappointed because from what im hearing, Geno and Banjo are not gona be in DLC for the first DLC pack. Squares rep is gona likely be a dragon quest character, and Microsoft is getting Steve. Which makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Theres all this hype built up in social media from microsoft about banjo, and then theres even other people like ed boon saying scorpion would be cool in smash, and funimation always saying goku for smash - ****ing do at least one of those things! You should do ALL OF THEM!!! But at least for the love of god do one!
Pleaseee.. echos DO NOT count as new characters. Theyre just filler, especially when a few of them could have easily had their own moveset or at least been semi-clones.Okay, hold the phone. Let's take a look at the Ultimate newcomers thus far.
We have 12:
Now, let's separate the "fan-favorite/highly requested" characters:
Inkling, Daisy, Ridley, Chrom, Dark Samus, KKR, and Isabelle.
All these characters are heavily loved by fans, and make up 7/12 of the Ultimate newcomers.
Now let's look at "Nintendo" characters:
Inkling, Daisy, Ridley, Chrom, Dark Samus, King K. Rool, Isabelle, Incineroar, Piranha Plant.
All these characters are part of major Nintendo franchises, and make up about 3/4 of the newcomers.
It should be noted that some of these newcomers have special facts about them, such as Chrom being the first FE character since Marth to not be from the most recent FE game, and KKR making his first appearance in 10 years.
Anyway, this leaves us with Simon, Richter, and Ken
That said, Simon Belmont has always been closely associated with olden days NES Nintendo, just like Megaman, so it's not like he's some out of left field 3rd Party choice. He makes sense.
So in terms of 3rd party guests with no super strong relation to Nintendo, we've got Richter and Ken.
1/6 of the newcomers.
I don't understand how you can say that the game "neglects fan favorites" when they make up more than 50% of the new roster.
And how you can say that "This **** was supposed to be Nintendo" when it clearly still is.
You're allowed to be disappointed in the game, but these statements are definitely not true.
Its not about hopefuls any more. We're at a point where not adding (especially) Geno, Isaak, and Banjo is criminal. There are a lot of other big characters that should be getting into the game that cause disappointment, but those 3 especially absolutely should be in this game. There is NO reason they shouldnt be in. And before you say Geno and Banjo could be DLC, dont get your hopes up. The likely square rep is a dragon quest character, and the Microsoft rep is gona be steve.
I dont have a lot of hope for future DLC's either. Until something is announced im gona remain very un-hopeful cause it really doesnt seem like Sakurai or Nintendo know what their doing even with the numerous big steps forward they've taken in the switch era.
To really get me hype for this games future DLC, this first set of 5 DLC characters needs to do at least one of the following things:
1. Add Geno or Banjo to the roster
2. Upgrade an assist trophy to be a playable character (which would open thr door for more assists to become playable)
3. Confirm there will be in fact season 2 and on DLC packs
4. Reveal new game modes for the future.
5. reveal that square and microsoft will have more reps (if and when geno nor banjo are in yet)
There are other big things that would blow my mind - like adding Scorpion from mortal kombat, or goku.. but i dont see either of those happening. And even if they did happen, not having Geno, Banjo, or Isaak, is still a crime against gaming.
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BronzeGreekGod
Smash Lord
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Sorry, Double post
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D
Deleted member
Guest
I'm excited for Ultimate. I literally hate Sm4sh with a burning passion, Im tired of For Glory, and yes I know the next online will be the same, but im tired of custom user tags. Im tired of the messy menu screen. Im sick of how rolling, and airdodging is so rewarding. And most importantly, im tired of how unbalanced it is.
Honestly, being dissapointed is fine, but we really should just be happy we are getting another Smash game. And for the most part, the game is perfect in my eyes.
Honestly, being dissapointed is fine, but we really should just be happy we are getting another Smash game. And for the most part, the game is perfect in my eyes.
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Ironic that you'd say that, since Brawl's balancing is considerably worse than what Smash 3DS / Wii U received. Even Melee's balancing had some highly notable flaws.
dezeray112
Smash Hero
Can show me a source or a link to where this was stated please?
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RileyXY1
Smash Hero
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This is a claim made by Hitagi, who may be a fake.
TheTrueBrawler
Smash Demon
They were all terrible to be honest.
Smash Melee is overrun with Foxes, and only a few other fighters besides him are even close to viable. Smash Brawl's version of Meta Knight is undisputedly the most broken thing in any Smash game.
Smash 4's balance was better than the other two in terms of how many fighters are viable, but it still had dominating characters. What makes this game's balancing so horrible is that those dominating factors were both DLC fighters making this game a pay to win title.
Truthfully, I want to see at least 50% of the fighters be viable this time around, and none of that f***ing pay to win crap. If less than five fighters are dominating the meta again, I will be disappointed just like I was with Smash Brawl, and just like I was with Smash 4 post DLC.
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I'm putting money on the OP somehow owning SSBU before the year is over.
What happened to Smash 4 being the most balanced? Or is that just how unbalanced the others were?
If you're looking for a better UI, you may not find it.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I actually like Ultimate's UI better. Its way more minimal.
Im just burned out tbh.
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zerossoul
Smash Rookie
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- Sep 19, 2014
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- 15
The smash ballot can't always be trusted. Thanks to that, we have Bayonetta. As awesome a character as she is, She redefined what the Meta was, and not in a good way. Just because a character is highly requested, does not mean they would jive well with the rest of the characters. I honestly think Nintendo is choosing these characters now just so they can avoid that situation altogether. (I still question how well Ridley is going to work. He looks really punishable. Cool that he's in, but I think he's going to be another one of those underplayed characters).
I still wonder if there was actually that much interest in Bayo. Maybe 'Russians rigged the ballot'?
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Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Blame Bayonetta for the imbalance that Smash 3DS / Wii U ended up receiving. She's arguably the hardest character to balance properly.
At least for Cloud, you can actually adjust his moveset to not be so crazy; for example, Limit Break now has a time limit, instead of lasting until Cloud gets KO'd, or uses a special move.
Dixie Kong
Smash Ace
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I remember being super excited for Jupiter Ascending. The directors worked hard for years on that film, and to me it looked like the next big sci fi movie. When I read it was receiving negative reviews, I couldn’t believe it. The W brothers had spent so much time and effort into the movie, plus they directed The Matrix!!!! Yet when I finally saw it, I was incredibly disappointed. And many felt the same way, yet they don’t feel “ungrateful” for disliking the final product despite the directors efforts.
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Smash 4 is the most balanced title so far. Some see this as a negative as it results in the cast feeling much more samey. To me, there's a balance to be achieved, and Smash 4 chose the much lesser of two evils. I like that fighters can recover reasonably well and can win matches with enough dedication. Previous titles had fighters so far above the rest, it was embarrassing. However, taking this design approach too far will result in a major loss of variety. Ultimate has already shown signs of walking this line: things like jump frame count have been normalized.
That said, certain characters will always be superior. If characters are different, there will inevitably be certain characters better than others.
That said, certain characters will always be superior. If characters are different, there will inevitably be certain characters better than others.
Dragonblaze123
Smash Rookie
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- Jul 28, 2015
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- 12
It's alright for you to have a preference, but you sound really entitled that you're upset that someone didn't put in your favourite character into a video game. It's fine for you to dislike the choices but calling them "crap" and "fluff" detracts from the time, work and effort put in to choosing and making these characters. At the end of the day, it's not your game. If Sakurai wants to put in "garbage characters" then he can.
Just another case of Smash Entitlement™ .
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Diem
Agent of Phaaze
Some people can be defensive and act like the game is perfect, but I've seen a lot of people who set their expectations unreasonably high, and I don't have a lot of sympathy for that. I don't feel sorry for people getting their hopes up for a story mode like SSE or falling for the Grinch hoax despite all the official, stated reasons those things wouldn't happen.
I don't think Ultimate is perfect. It's lacking a lot of things I think we all were expecting, and that's disappointing. A more substantial adventure mode, more side-modes, stage builder, etc. There are a lot of things missing from previous entries that will be missed.
However, it's bringing back every character that's ever been playable in the series, almost every single stage, making dozens upon dozens of improvements across multiple areas, implementing a better online system, etc. For all the things it left behind, the sheer amount of things that it's bringing back or adding easily outweigh what it lacks. It has 75 fighters and 103 stages. No other game has ever been this big. So it's missing Break the Targets and Trophies, which is unfortunate. But the sheer amount of content that's in the game regardless is unmatched by any other game. And it's not just the quantity, but the quality. Each fighter and stage is brought back with loving and careful attention to detail, so it's not like any of it was half-assed.
A good comparison I'm reminded of is Ubisoft's The Crew from a few years ago. It has a lot of problems and flaws, but it's also an open-world driving game that covers the entire continental United States. It's condensed, of course, but that's a scale and world that no other game could match. So even for all the criticisms and shortcomings, its scale and detail balance or even outweigh everything else. And even that game doesn't have quite the polish and attention to detail as Ultimate.
So if someone's disappointed that their most-wanted character didn't get in, or they don't like that certain modes or features are missing, that's understandable. But judging it for what it is, instead of what it isn't, it's hard to say that it's anything but a monumental achievement. If someone is really disinterested because X character didn't make it in the game, or they don't like how much of the content is "old" and would rather the game have more new content, they can have that opinion. But taking that disappointment and calling the whole game a wash just because of one or two things is nonsense. Because there's so much substance to the game already that it easily makes up for whatever it lacks.
Also, relevancy does matter, but it's just one factor among many. Sakurai has stated that he's considered characters, and then decided against them since they lack relevancy/popularity (e.g. Takamaru, Ayumi Tachibana, and Reggie/Miyamoto/Iwata). A character being relevant/irrelevant isn't the sole factor, but it is clearly a factor.
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TheTrueBrawler
Smash Demon
They took Smash 4's UI, and made almost every aspect worse. I need good menus because it makes me navigate through a labyrinth just to find something simple like Classic Mode or My Music. Not all of them are used often, but they're still very necessary modes.
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Crystanium
Smash Hero
It looks like you made it past the honeymoon phase.
When you look at any game or anything in life, "it's just another regular installment", or event, or whatever.
I think you need to take a break from the Internet. Who said anything about a Dragon Quest rep? Steve? Unfounded. As for lack of interesting game modes, that's subjective. Just because you don't find certain game modes interesting doesn't mean everyone else doesn't.
Okay. Why should anyone care?
All right. Have fun with that. You can save yourself a trip next time and write a blog instead of using up space on SmashBoards.
Then the fighter select. It's like the bottom row of 4 corrupted the rest of it. There's technically an order to that bottom row, but I don't see many compliments on it yet people will defend Ultimate's.
Granted, I still love what the overall product is shaping up to be despite some grievances.
Jeck
Smash Journeyman
I felt bad for you for 0.025 seconds. And only because I think you'll get over your inability to appreciate what this game does have.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Ugh I hate when people say that Sakurai is adding "garbage characters" or w/e
- Inkling and Splatoon as a whole is ****ing huge and they have a much bigger fanbase then Isaac or Geno outside of Smash
- Ridley is mother****ing RIDLEY, even among non Smash fans he's definitely gained a lot of notoriety AND Metroid is also ****ing huge, one of Nintendo's mainline franchises despite being on hiatus, plus a new game is coming out for it (which might have Ridley? IDK i don't play metroid)
- Simon is a very very very prestigious third-party, which again, is from a massive iconic franchise
- King K. Rool is, well, King K. Rool. One of DK's biggest villains and arguably should've been in Smash for a looong time now. He might not be the main villain anymore but his series sure as hell isn't irrelevant
- Isabelle comes from one of the best selling and most deserving franchises in need of a second rep
- Incineroar is, well, another Pokemon. COuld be dissapointing to YOU (and me) but to the casual audience he's ****ing massive
- Piranha Plant... ok you got me there. He's funny though
- Daisy is a Mario character, self explanatory. She also took ~5 seconds to make so it was worth the effort
- Chrom is from the wildly successful FE game that saved the franchise
- Dark Samus was an easy Samus clone and is (afaik) the main villain of the Metroid Prime games, and Metroid Prime 4 is coming put soon
- Richter was in one of the more popular Castlevania games and he's also an easy echo
- Ken is mother****ing KEN, literally the most deserving echo of the bunch. He's literally like the first mainline echo fighter in fighting games, and he's a huge third party that appeals to fighting game fans- the same fans Sakurai wants to buy his game
AzureFlame4
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, I would've traded so many of the veterans for more newcomers in a heart beat personally. Only newcomers I have to look forward to are the Belmonts and K. Rool. There are just so many flavor of the month characters in the game that are veterans that I definitely expected to be gone (half the pokemon, half the Mario characters and half the FE characters), but I admit that I see a lot of people really love all veterans being back so I'll be happy for them. I hold 0 hopes for DLC after Piranha being revealed and hearing that Nintendo picked the DLC characters. I expect an 8th gen Pokemon, a FE Three Houses character, Steve, and whatever other marketing characters they want. I'm definitely not getting the fighter pass. Piranha plant was the perfect way to convince me to not do that. I'll still have fun with the game, but I hope with the next one we get back to the flavor of the month characters staying in their months.
Teeb147
Smash Legend
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- Nov 15, 2007
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- 10,624
While the game ended up not living up to the grand hype around (and I've been disappionted by some things), just being able to have all those characters together in a game with low landing lag makes it a great new game that'll rock the house.
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The next iteration of Smash will likely introduce a new engine and a reset roster. I doubt future games will insist on keeping the entire past roster forever and ever.
EricTheGamerman
Smash Master
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- Jul 21, 2014
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I mostly agree with you on the points of people set their hype levels too high due to the Ultimate moniker (or this idea or that if not that specifically) and did a terrible job of listening to Sakurai himself. I think you and I have discussed that before, but Sakurai tried his best to communicate the hype cycle before hand and so many people yelled at me when I said more than like a couple of characters in the November Direct was unreasonable thinking. I certainly expected more than box theory, but ever so little (I was thinking like Shadow and one more character if we got lucky). People also falsely assumed everything about Spirits when Sakurai told us nothing on that (a couple of awesome character trailers were not proof to something greater at all). So I do agree with you there.
But I disagree with the idea that you can’t dismiss the product as a whole just for the amount of content. Sakurai has obviously put lots of love into the game in so many places and it is an accomplishment for him in many ways, but I don’t see why everyone has to view it as such. Ultimate certainly seems focused on older content and being a true complete addition to that content with regards to stages and characters. I’ve seen it mentioned before, people don’t necessarily have all that much of an appreciation for that, they want new content. And I think that’s a valid stance to take (even if I don’t agree with it). This is the direction I hoped for in Smash, but not necessarily the direction others hoped for. I think you see that with the constant discussions of reboot that keep coming up or cuts, people just have different ideas where to take the series. Similarly if a person values the modes of the game more than all those characters/stages (which I’ve also seen) Ultimate is likely a huge disappointment to those people as well.
You can accept the achievement and scale of the game, while dismissing it completely to as not for you. Again, I don’t think most people dismissing it are of that mindset (and are mostly salty fans of x and y), but I do think it’s important to keep in mind the validity of the other point of view when done right.
Oh please don’t compare Smash to The Crew though. I really disliked that game for its way too serious story and it’s driving never felt good to me. I can respect it’s size while saying, I really disliked it and it felt super repetitive haha. Maybe something like Red Dead Redemption 2 is a better comparison as that has more soul and an overall vision to it that might be more comparable to Sakurai’s idealistic vision for Ultimate. Both are damn near universally praised, but I do see segments of each community criticizing the games and often being criticized for that criticism.
And fair enough on relevancy being a factor. I just think this game has done the best job so far in giving us a good number of seemingly “irrelevant” characters and showing us, yeah, it doesn’t matter all that much when a Piranha Plant can get in. I’m also just seeing a tone of relevancy that people like to use that seems to communicate the notions of, “you’re dumb for supporting this character.” And that notion is my most hated ideology some Smash fans have, and I’d rather it not be used. Nothing from you specifially on that point though, just others.
Dragonblaze123
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2015
- Messages
- 12
I could not agree with this post more, there have been some HUGE characters added to this game but for some people, enough is never enough. There are people who are genuinely upset that some random character from a Mario spinoff game from '96 (that the majority of the Smash player-base don't know and won't care about) and are genuinely thinking about boycotting the game. Sakurai is not obligated to add any characters that the fanbase tell him to add. At the end of the day, Smash is his game. He can do pretty much whatever he wants with it and the game is gonna sell like hotcakes regardless of whether a niche character from a long dead GBA RPG franchise is in it or not. People need to stop been so self-centred and selfish and the enjoy the game for what it is, not force it to be something they want.
EDIT: Yo if they don't add Big Top from Mario Party 8 I'm gonna boycott every game Sakurai ever makes.
The reset is a bold prediction.
VexTheHex
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2018
- Messages
- 567
I'm sorry you don't like or want
Whoops, forgot
Wait, I'm not.
Your picks are no better (and arguably worse) than what we got added. Geno is some one off nobody that only has fandom clamoring for him cause Sakurai once said he wanted him in. The character is a literal nobody. Isaac series tanked with Dark Dawn in the end and looks as original as the "Make Your Farmer/RPG Hero" default character. We really need another blond swordsman right? Skull Kid? Looks cool but he is no better than Midna or Ghirahim. He's just some LoZ throw away character cause they only keep Link, Zelda, Impa, Tingle, and Ganondorf around for longer. Banjo and Kazooie? So you think Microsoft wants some dead series to be their rep? Nah, they'd want something actually still floating more likely than not. (Geno applies here to)
(Mind you, I support all of them to a degree. But people need a reality check.)
Sorry, you can call all the newcomers trash picks except 3. But the ones you suggested actually have more hard evidence showing they aren't needed or even wanted by most the population. It's just the aging Smash Speculation fans holding onto their nostalgic memories and thinking their favorites even if dead and buried deserve it over everyone else cause they want what they currently can't have.
Also Geno and Banjo make more sense as DLC. It gets the 3rd party company money if they do decide to let these long dead characters in to not fully waste the effort for someone 95% of the player base won't know.
Whoops, forgot
Wait, I'm not.
Your picks are no better (and arguably worse) than what we got added. Geno is some one off nobody that only has fandom clamoring for him cause Sakurai once said he wanted him in. The character is a literal nobody. Isaac series tanked with Dark Dawn in the end and looks as original as the "Make Your Farmer/RPG Hero" default character. We really need another blond swordsman right? Skull Kid? Looks cool but he is no better than Midna or Ghirahim. He's just some LoZ throw away character cause they only keep Link, Zelda, Impa, Tingle, and Ganondorf around for longer. Banjo and Kazooie? So you think Microsoft wants some dead series to be their rep? Nah, they'd want something actually still floating more likely than not. (Geno applies here to)
(Mind you, I support all of them to a degree. But people need a reality check.)
Sorry, you can call all the newcomers trash picks except 3. But the ones you suggested actually have more hard evidence showing they aren't needed or even wanted by most the population. It's just the aging Smash Speculation fans holding onto their nostalgic memories and thinking their favorites even if dead and buried deserve it over everyone else cause they want what they currently can't have.
Also Geno and Banjo make more sense as DLC. It gets the 3rd party company money if they do decide to let these long dead characters in to not fully waste the effort for someone 95% of the player base won't know.
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AzureFlame4
Smash Journeyman
People get really defensive when you say you don't like something that they do. It kind of reminds me of the state of the Star Wars franchise right now. Anyways, trying to argue that the characters we got in the game are more important than the characters someone wanted is all subjective in the end. No reason to be elitist about it and poop on the characters and why they are so dumb. You know pre-reveal no one was calling certain characters more deserving than the characters being called dumb now.
Also, I hate how echo fighters are being added to the total of newcomers when they don't even get their own number. Was Alph considered a newcomer for Smash 4? I don't think so. That's just my opinion though. IMO, Ultimate only has 5 and a half newcomers pre-DLC.
Also, I hate how echo fighters are being added to the total of newcomers when they don't even get their own number. Was Alph considered a newcomer for Smash 4? I don't think so. That's just my opinion though. IMO, Ultimate only has 5 and a half newcomers pre-DLC.
first off I supported geno,skull kid, and bajo, for the fans but never really cared either way if there in or not but there are no way a glaring omission on sakurai's part. Geno and skull kid are from one game in there respective series ( yh skull kid made a cameo in TP but nothing substantial) and banjo is owned by Microsoft which made them even less likely.
VexTheHex
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2018
- Messages
- 567
Pretty sure calling the characters trash picks is pretty salt driven insults. People like to hate on some of the newcomers when all of them are giants compared to insects that were most of the Grinch Leak roster. Could all of those picks been cool? Yep. But they really don't deserve it over who we got in. And the reason these characters are under some attack now is cause of their fans like OP attacking the other fan bases. Do you forget all the fan art and songs celebrating and attacking the Steve (not a fan myself but still not called for) and Incineroar fans? Now that's buried but there is still insults being thrown around and it's mostly from the Grinch character fans. And most of the vocal ones are the dead small fry franchises or characters like Geno and Isaac.
Alph didn't get his own animations and effects though. Dark Samus and Ken are clearly on a different level than Alph. Also Sakurai had to revive and remake the cut veterans. I personally could of done without Pichu and Young Link... but it is what it is. Possibly without Squirtle and Ivysaur as well to reduce the anti-Pokemon Smash fans.
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- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 10,478
I'm basing it off Sakurai's comments. In an interview, he discussed how the decision had to be made of start a new game or largely reuse what came before. He opted for the latter in order to speed up dev time and ensure he could get all past fighters into the game. (The alternative was, as he put it, a new game with 1/3 the cast.) At this point, I'm simply making an assumption: the next game will probably leverage new technology and not reuse old tech, which means the roster will start over, which means it'd need new faces to attract people rather than just a rehash of existing fighters.
Dragonblaze123
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2015
- Messages
- 12
That's a fair argument, however Smash is known for it's massive cast of characters now. As much as I wouldn't mind a revamped Smash game with a smaller, more balanced cast, a lot of people would be really upset by the loss of their main. Not to mention that Nintendo probably wouldn't let if happen, mainly because a lot of more casual players pick up Smash games because of their large and representative roster and I'm sure that there would be a lot of people that would not pick up the game if the amount of characters was reduced.
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- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
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- 10,478
Also, Amiibos...