Hylian vs Ally. CoT4.

[Hylian]

I played a recorded set with Ally the night before CoT4. He knows how to handle IC's amazingly well haha just watch .

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE4YVTQPoqk


Discuss.

 

[ADHD]

ggs, nice job hylian

 

[DMG]

Let's watch hylian get *****!

Okay!

Lol jk Hylian, but he did get you good. I'd suggest not trying to do that Bthrow to Footstool CG. It takes too long to set up when you can infinite him the normal way with Bthrow to Dthrow. I use that one and my CG which is reversed basically Dthrow to Bthrow in place.

 

[Aurorazoni]

xD That was a smart strat! I didn't think Nana would run into something so obvious.
btw I loved the footstool cg on the second match.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Weeee. I've been waiting for new CoT4 videos. It's basically the only thing I watch on youtube currently. Nice games.

 

[PoisonMist]

Ally can really handle the IC's well.

 

[ignore the fire]

Good to see you still play ICs.

 

[l!nk_aut]

hylian could have done better imo :/

he played to much for the grab. and when he gets it he messed up the most of the time

 

[OverLade]

Someone had good taste in music on their homebrew.

The matches were cool too.

Mabye predicting his sidesteps and reverse grabbing could get you some easier chaingrabs?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Ugh, what a horrid match-up. Snake depresses me.

 

[TheStig]

Whats wrong with hobbling? It doesn't take much longer than any other cg to setup. Done right, Nana pretty much does a short hop and lands near you, and the ice blocks give you plenty of time for Nana to return. I think that it was a good idea for Hylian to use hobbling, because it is pretty much a 1 stock loss. I would have done the same or used d-throw to f-throw. Personally, I only use b-throw to d-throw on medium and light characters, on heavy characters the timing feels different and odd.

 

[Teh Future]

I think you suffer from a case of Im hylian I play a bunch of character and it messes up my chaingrabs.

lol I've never played this matchup seriously, it looks like grenades are completely ******** and horrible though.

Also I think regular chaingrabs are better since you can spike heavy characters at earlier percentages, which means less room for error, even if hobbling itself is easier its still possible to mess up.

combination of both = win. chain them to the side, hobble for percentages, then spike

 

[FrozenHobo]

well you weren't doing spectacularly till your last stock... and then you were messing up cgs. also, it should be pretty obvious why you don't use blizzards vs a snake.... you've got some amazing ICs, but you were getting into some pretty easy to avoid situations (see: jump into snake utilt)

 

[magikguy]

poor Nana, got bazooka'd so much.

 

[DMG]

Whats wrong with hobbling? It doesn't take much longer than any other cg to setup. Done right, Nana pretty much does a short hop and lands near you, and the ice blocks give you plenty of time for Nana to return. I think that it was a good idea for Hylian to use hobbling, because it is pretty much a 1 stock loss. I would have done the same or used d-throw to f-throw. Personally, I only use b-throw to d-throw on medium and light characters, on heavy characters the timing feels different and odd.

Hobbling takes longer to set up.

If you grab a heavy character with a grab, especially on dash grabs, you can go right into a dthrow and Nana will recover from the lag in time to readjust and regrab them. This gives the opponent a very small chance to break out. Dthrow has a longer throwing animation than Bthrow, hence it gives Nana more time to get into position.

Say you dash grab them, and try to go right into Bthrow. Nana is still recovering from the lag and won't have enough time to try and get behind or near behind you and footstool them. So you are almost basically forced for Nana to recover from the lag completely, have her be basically lined up with you, and then Bthrow to Footstool if you want her to be able to make it in time. This gives opponents a surprisingly long time to mash out. Ally did it to Hylian when Hylian grabbed him around 30% or so and he had to try and get Nana into position before he could throw him and BAM Ally jumps out.

Also, if you footstool the heavies too close to the ground, they can actually escape from the CG since it won't lock them like it should (Hylian knows what I am talking about, he did this CG on Ice, who plays as Snake as well, and anytime Hylian footstooled him too low to the ground Ice was able to Roll, Get up Attack, etc.)

Also, something that isn't exactly straightforward/obvious, is that the player can choose to SDI/DI themselves towards the edge. If they keep SDIing in the same direction, they will get to the edge if you try to keep doing that exact CG. You don't have this problem with CG's that don't involve Footstooling into Ice Blocks.

 

[Hylian]

Hobbling is fine above 40%. Under that they can mash out. Bthrow to Dthrow doesn't work well at all on heavies. Dthrow --Fthrow is much better.

They can't actually get to the edge with SDI. You can always throw them the opposite direction while hobbling and even if they SDI behind you, you don't have to move from your current spot to pick them up. So if they SDI away all you do is walk forward them backthrow hobble. If they SDI inwards just turn around and grab. They can never reach the edge.

A lot of the times I messed up nana wasn't synched with Popo, so ally could break out. You can hobble really fast, I hobbled ally at 0% into dthrow fair into and then he broke out because I hesitated for some reason.

I know I shouldn't of blizzarded as much, but you can actually destroy his nades without getting hit with the explosion with blizzard, and I was trying to find that spacing.

I figuered out what I was doing to ICE dmg and it's nothing really lol it won't ever happen again.

 

[Remzi]

Hylian, do you main ICs or G&W?

 

[DMG]

Yeah but you still have the issue of dash grabbing/grabbing them in general and needing to throw them quickly with Hobbling. That's something that Dthrowing solves since the throw animation is longer.

Also, yeah they can SDI towards the edge. Say you grab him from the center. You Bthrow Hobble to the left and they SDI to the left. You grab him facing left. You Bthrow Hobble to the right, he SDI's left (doesn't end up behind you). You grab him, Bthrow Hobble him to the Left, he SDI's left. If you continue this pattern, he ends up SDIing off the edge on the left side.

Now, clearly you can Fthrow/Dthrow/Bthrow him towards the center again, but that would be different than just pure hobbling him with one particular variation of it (Dthrow to Footstool to Ice Block, Fthrow to Footstool to Ice Block, and Bthrow to Footstool to Ice Block). All 3 of them have the SDI issue, you can solve it but it requires you to either use another Hobble occasionally or a different CG like Fthrow to Dthrow.

 

[rgrwilco]

at 5:02 that was sweet what ally did..

 

[Hylian]

Hylian, do you main ICs or G&W?

GW

Yeah but you still have the issue of dash grabbing/grabbing them in general and needing to throw them quickly with Hobbling. That's something that Dthrowing solves since the throw animation is longer.

Also, yeah they can SDI towards the edge. Say you grab him from the center. You Bthrow Hobble to the left and they SDI to the left. You grab him facing left. You Bthrow Hobble to the right, he SDI's left (doesn't end up behind you). You grab him, Bthrow Hobble him to the Left, he SDI's left. If you continue this pattern, he ends up SDIing off the edge on the left side.

Now, clearly you can Fthrow/Dthrow/Bthrow him towards the center again, but that would be different than just pure hobbling him with one particular variation of it (Dthrow to Footstool to Ice Block, Fthrow to Footstool to Ice Block, and Bthrow to Footstool to Ice Block). All 3 of them have the SDI issue, you can solve it but it requires you to either use another Hobble occasionally or a different CG like Fthrow to Dthrow.

Setting up a hobble is easy. Just dthrow to Fthrow then bthrow hobble. You can do this to any weight actually since nana will be behind you in the perfect position for the footstool.

Also, all you have to do to stop them from SDI'ing to the edge is dash grab. The momentum from the grab is more then enough to compensate for their DI.

Not to mention you can't SDI towards the climbers and not end up behind them. It takes forever to get to the edge DIing that way and you will probably be at kill% anyways when getting anywhere near the ledge.

I didn't really get a chance to do it much because well this IS the best snake in the world, and his nades were really ****ing me up. Watch me play a DDD and you can really see how effective hobbling is.

 

[DMG]

Setting up a hobble is easy. Just dthrow to Fthrow then bthrow hobble. You can do this to any weight actually since nana will be behind you in the perfect position for the footstool.

Also, all you have to do to stop them from SDI'ing to the edge is dash grab. The momentum from the grab is more then enough to compensate for their DI.

Not to mention you can't SDI towards the climbers and not end up behind them. It takes forever to get to the edge DIing that way and you will probably be at kill% anyways when getting anywhere near the ledge.

I didn't really get a chance to do it much because well this IS the best snake in the world, and his nades were really ****ing me up. Watch me play a DDD and you can really see how effective hobbling is.

That's part of what I am saying though, Dthrowing first is better since it gives Nana a lot of time to reposition herself lol. A lot of times, instead of Bthrowing immediately from a grab (especially the dash grabs), you had to wait for Nana to come closer to you before you could throw, and it gave Ally time to escape where as if you Dthrew him you could catch him with Nana, Dthrow/Bthrow/Fthrow him, and then hobble.

Dash grabs you can trip. I mean yeah the chance is small but still there for both of them.

Hobbling is alright, I just think that it would be better to just pick like, 2 specific CG's to master that work on every character in the game and have a general idea on how to do stuff like Hobbling to show off or try something different or to get around BS grabbing rules.

Bthrow to Bthrow so you can infinite on platforms, and Bthrow to Dthrow since that one is pretty easy to learn, maybe Dthrow to Bthrow instead. It's really hard to Bthrow Hobble light characters, and it's easier to just Bthrow to Dthrow them, hence I didn't really fool around with that Hobble. Fthrow Hobble is kinda weird, Dthrow Hobble was easier so I fooled with that one instead of the Fthrow one. So the only Hobble I would really use would be the Dthrow one, since it works really well on any character like the regular CG's.


I mean, if you wanna Bthrow Hobble people, that's fine, just saying I think it'd be easier to just get really good at 2 or so of the CG's that are guaranteed on every character.

 

[FrozenHobo]

he did hobbling because its an easy cg on heavies and it works really well on snakes. plus the forced get up can be a nice setup for a variety of things. while mastering a few good cgs is nice its better to have a variety of cgs mastered that you can use in any situation that would require them.

 

[DMG]

he did hobbling because its an easy cg on heavies and it works really well on snakes. plus the forced get up can be a nice setup for a variety of things. while mastering a few good cgs is nice its better to have a variety of cgs mastered that you can use in any situation that would require them.

IDK, I'd rather use a few CG's that work in any situation or cover any situation rather than using multiple ones with really specific purposes. But that's just me.

 

[FrozenHobo]

what cgs are you talking about in particular?

 

[Kage Me]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who fails at rolling... =p

 

[Smasher89]

I´ll just list a few things I think could been done more efficient ...

1:05 should´ve been quicker alt d-throw, I think there were an oppoturnity to actually "run" from the granade with altgrab, I can be wrong in that situiation though.

1:50 I guess you had the wrong controllerport in the matchup since you got knockback by the Nade and not him. Maybe wee need a controlleport discussion since was it port one that allowed for grab priority, and port 4 is optimal for snakes granades to work better for you...


The only thing that got my attention in the second match, itwere when you had the grab on his second stock, you backthrowed too footstooled at 26%, dthrow fair works until 28% on snake and gives more damage faster then bthrow-footstool.

 

[DMG]

what cgs are you talking about in particular?

Well Bthrow Hobbling is pretty much only useful on heavies. The Hobbles in general I don't like because you have to change directions usually

Bthrow to Bthrow works on everyone, but it can be hard on the heavies. Dthrow to Bthrow works on everyone, and some people find that easier (If on a platform though Bthrow to Bthrow is the way to go obviously).

You also don't have to change directions with these since it's built into the CG. You would have to with say the Dthrow Hobble though.

 

[lain]

Dude Hylian you gotta get your cg consistency down WAY more.

Before COT4, I always heard about you being able to cg to like 7000% while not looking, and you even made that ridiculous mm offer to people. But I was watching some of your matches and it really didn't seem like you knew how to cg fast/long.

In fact, most IC players can't cg consistently. What gives here? This is what we're SUPPOSED to be able to do.

 

[lain]

Also Dr. Mario Guy knows his **** LOLL wth

 

[Hylian]

Dude Hylian you gotta get your cg consistency down WAY more.

Before COT4, I always heard about you being able to cg to like 7000% while not looking, and you even made that ridiculous mm offer to people. But I was watching some of your matches and it really didn't seem like you knew how to cg fast/long.

In fact, most IC players can't cg consistently. What gives here? This is what we're SUPPOSED to be able to do.

I was just really off for some reason :/. If you watched me the night before CoT4 I was CGing fine. Ask Kadaj, every time I grabbed him he died like 10 matches in a row lol.

And my MM with pierce was horribly frustrating. Marth is the character I'm BEST at CGing and I couldn't dthrow him to save my life. I was so confused :/.

 

[Aurorazoni]

I think it was the pressure. :x Were there tons of yelling in the background while you played?

 

[TheStig]

at one tournament i went to i somehow could not get the timing of the b-throw to d-throw on characters that I felt reallly comfortable chain grabbing. i was probably due to nerves or the tv lag but i think that i am over that now. id be under pressure if i played ally too

 

[FrozenHobo]

well i think we can all agree that hylian just has to get back in there and practice.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

I know I shouldn't of blizzarded as much, but you can actually destroy his nades without getting hit with the explosion with blizzard, and I was trying to find that spacing.

The optimal spacing is the very tip of Blizzard, which is basically dependent on how the snake throws the nades.

Still, I BELIEVE you can pivot Bthrow->Fthrow Snake. If that doesn't work, you can Bthrow ->dashgrab-> bthrow.

 

[lain]

The optimal spacing is the tip but that's provided you blizzard at the right time. Helpful maybe a couple times in a set, but not that useful.

just do dthrow->bthrow people.

 

[meepxzero]

Dude Hylian you gotta get your cg consistency down WAY more.

Before COT4, I always heard about you being able to cg to like 7000% while not looking, and you even made that ridiculous mm offer to people. But I was watching some of your matches and it really didn't seem like you knew how to cg fast/long.

In fact, most IC players can't cg consistently. What gives here? This is what we're SUPPOSED to be able to do.

im usually consistent with them i was basically coughing a hairball for 2 days straight >< during CoT4.

 

[Hylian]

The optimal spacing is the tip but that's provided you blizzard at the right time. Helpful maybe a couple times in a set, but not that useful.

just do dthrow->bthrow people.

Yeah, for alt grabbing I like Dthrow--Bthrow the best on heavies. Bthrow-dthrow is too weird lol.

 

[...Q]

well.. hylian deserves some credit i mean ally is just a beast :D but then ur also beast hylian kudos to both of you!

 

[OverLade]

Yeah, for alt grabbing I like Dthrow--Bthrow the best on heavies. Bthrow-dthrow is too weird lol.

Ur sig is amazing. I genuinely laughed XD.

 

[ADHD]

lain have you ever faced ally?