Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Manondorf]

I am almost positive that uair has slightly more range than nair, but this is based on comparing screen shots of the active frames. The only thing I can concede on nair is that it is technically slightly faster than uair because it is not as many inputs. If you have amazing thumbs this probably doesn't matter though.

The reason why ganon's nair is so meh is because it has a very small active frame window. It's a whopping 2 frames per kick. I wish it was like falcons which is 6 active frames per kick. With ganon's power that would be soooooo great, haha.

Edit: 2nd kick of falcons nair is 10 frames. My mistake.

 

[-ACE-]

The uair's hitbox comes out sooner, and it has more range and "priority" (I'm pretty sure the initial hitbox is slightly disjointed). I was just curious about a follow up on someone (a heavy char) at near 0% from a ledgehop nair (first hit of nair obviously). There might be a few instances where you can follow up but it would be very situational.

 

[Siel]

What is crouch-canceling and how is it effective?

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

What is crouch-canceling and how is it effective?

Crouch canceling is when you take a hit while crouching. At lower percents it will stop almost all knockback of that hit.

And example of its usefulness it

Sheik uses dash attack
Ganon CCs
Ganon can grab Sheik because she's still in attack lag

 

[Palpi]

I have tried using nair and it has worked, but another move would have been better/safer in each situation. I don't see it having much realistic use.

 

[Divinokage]

I have tried using nair and it has worked, but another move would have been better/safer in each situation. I don't see it having much realistic use.

You can do after a downair at lower % to continue to do aerials after it.. I mean it's either the dude gets popped up in the air or gets hit twice with it and its already 44% lol. If not you can perhaps upair or fair or bair if hes behind. You must Nair to keep the opponent guessing his DI and then **** him up. However, it usually must be used in a combo situation.

 

[-ACE-]

What is crouch-canceling and how is it effective?

When you take a hit while crouching, the hitlag is cut in half. Also, since you are holding down, you ASDI the hit down which keeps you grounded (until a certain %). Basically, it allows you to gain control of your character and attack/grab before your opponent is finished with the move that hit you.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

If anyone is interested, here is a clip of Broly playing with his face against Darkrain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lljog39Ta0c#t=3m21s

 

[Siel]

Oh, thanks . So its actually really useful ... If you know how to time it ? Because if you mess up a crouch cancel can't they just get a good hit in?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg4CUr-mR0E

i've been investigating the falco matchup. cause i live in NC and everybody wants to be ****in pp. in any case, watch 1:10. i know i'm gonna start doing stuff like that, and i want to see more of it. i hate ledgehop double lasers a lot, and now, any future falco against me who think they can spam that **** has another thing coming.

just a little public service anouncement from my video studying *watches the rest of the lampchops v chaddd set*

 

[spider_sense]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg4CUr-mR0E

i've been investigating the falco matchup. cause i live in NC and everybody wants to be ****in pp. in any case, watch 1:10. i know i'm gonna start doing stuff like that, and i want to see more of it. i hate ledgehop double lasers a lot, and now, any future falco against me who think they can spam that **** has another thing coming.

just a little public service anouncement from my video studying *watches the rest of the lampchops v chaddd set*

Even though Chaddd did well against Chops; Guini is undoubtedly the best Ganon against falcos, so stick close to his vids. Oh yeah if you're having trouble getting around ledge hop lasers. You can stand close and make sure to jab or grab or even power shield. Another option around it is to get on the platform (assuming you're not on FD) and wait for them to shoot out the laser then fall down with a bair or reverse uair.

 

[DippnDots]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg4CUr-mR0E

i've been investigating the falco matchup. cause i live in NC and everybody wants to be ****in pp. in any case, watch 1:10. i know i'm gonna start doing stuff like that, and i want to see more of it. i hate ledgehop double lasers a lot, and now, any future falco against me who think they can spam that **** has another thing coming.

just a little public service anouncement from my video studying *watches the rest of the lampchops v chaddd set*

I've seen dark rain fsmash falcos doing that ****, you have a lot more time than you'd think when the first laser goes over your head, ganon could easily jab or ftilt, i'm gonna experiment and see if ganon can fsmash also, cause that would be awesome.

Something I do with the nair btw, that I havent really found a way to implement but it looks sweet: Waveland off a platform, immediately nair, both hits come out, you land, then you can jab, tilt, it comes out like a boxer's 1-2-3! quick as lightning. Only reason I havent implemented it, people useually wait for the 1-2-3 then grab me.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Even though Chaddd did well against Chops; Guini is undoubtedly the best Ganon against falcos, so stick close to his vids. Oh yeah if you're having trouble getting around ledge hop lasers. You can stand close and make sure to jab or grab or even power shield. Another option around it is to get on the platform (assuming you're not on FD) and wait for them to shoot out the laser then fall down with a bair or reverse uair.

i've seen about all of guini's matches vs falco and i've never ever seen him or anyone else predict/punish double laser off the edge. i may not have been watching close enough in the past. i think i've seen guini jab, and i know somewhere in one of chadds other vids he did a crouch to avoid the first laser to a jab, which i thought was kinda cool. and i think if they time it right, they can shoot a laser to/through any platform except maybe dreamland. thats why chaddd's punish worked, he was gonna land on yoshi's platform.

i'll take a look at fsmash. has to be a hell of a read though; youd have to start it before they even think about doing the ledgehop laser and even then, they still have to do the ledgehop laser.

 

[-ACE-]

I'm pretty sure Chaddd didn't mean for it to work out exactly as it did. It looked like he was hoping to land that fair on chops' ledgehop but missed because chops was still invincible, and then jabbed, which was his best option at that time. Chops' ledgehop double lasers were really high in this case too, had he kept them lower it would have been harder for Chaddd to jab him out.

I don't know if there is something given like CC the first laser and then jab, or what. Personally I just like to just jab, sneak in an aerial (sometimes using a platform like spider_sense said), or play it safe and keep a small distance back and powershield and go from there. I'm not one to voluntarily give up possible ko opportunities but falco has some strong edge options. He can invincible dair or late dair you off a ledgehop when you're expecting lasers and start a nice combo/techchase sometimes.

 

[Magus420]

CC jab will hit them out of it pretty much no matter what as long as you jab between the 1st and 2nd lasers. F-smash would only work if the 1st laser goes over your head or they wait too long on the edge before ledgehopping so they are vulnerable as the 1st laser comes out (they are invincible until right before the 2nd laser if they do it properly).

 

[spider_sense]

I remember Guini telling you can grab Falco's out of it if your timing is on point, just spam jab as soon as you get hit with the second laser. Just keep yourself particularly spaced out, so as not to get rush down into a shine dair combo or whatever.

 

[Divinokage]

Well.. for me it feels like I'll never be able to beat Falco's that knows how to play against Ganon. Just today in tournament I got 3 stocked plenty of times by pkm's and bam's falco.. it's impossible.. A good Falco can just bait everything and get free combos on Ganon, it's dumb.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah Kage you're wrong. How's that?

Be the Warrior.

 

[SwizzyUK]

I have the same problem as Kage. I was getting 3 and 4 stocked by a pretty average falco player (in friendlies), and I got bored of getting ***** so I switched to Dr Mario. Bearing in mind I always play straight Ganon, even in friendlies I never change characters, he didn't get another game off me.

I wouldn't do it in tournament so I need to learn that match up as ganon or I'll keep getting knocked out by people I should be beating.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah kage, thats what happened to me for a long time at one of my friends house. it feels like unless you can grab them, its impossible to get stuff started. and a great falco will not get grabbed.

there have to be ways. the sheik player i always lost to said "you have to bait my baits and then punish". you can do this.

 

[Dart!]

you have to be the master baiter here. yes...really.

 

[DippnDots]

You're awesome Dart. But yeah, I know that hating on falco ****. I taught one of my friends this game and he started beating me with falco before sheik, super pissed me off how he'd just run away and keep running away, then catch me in something dumb and auto combo me all over the place. I guess you just can't over commit in that match up, it's just as dangerous as against a falcon or sheik :\

 

[-ACE-]

DippnDots and Dart said it right. You can't over commit, not even once. Keep the pressure on as best you can without leaving yourself very vulnerable. Try your best to bait something without leaving yourself open. As soon as you see an opening you have to capitalize on it. If you're good at countering falco's approaches, techchasing, and edgeguarding falco, it's not that bad of a matchup. Your DI also has to be on point because, let's face it, you're going to get combo'd.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya I guess so, well they are my closest friends and I have played them for at least 3 years now. Falco is still ****ty, it's just hella hard vs top level ones. I must crush them all!

I don't like losing very much.. =P I was pissed yesterday.

 

[spider_sense]

Learn to shield grab and put immense pressure of Falcos. I think the match up is pretty even. Sure he can combo Ganon hella hard, but so can every character, but what makes it even it that Ganon can murk Falco in 3-5 hits followed by a basic edge guard. DIing the shines isn't as hard, but it does take some practice and Falco's lasers are annoying but Ganon can get around them fairly easily.

 

[Divinokage]

These Falcos I play cannot be shield grabbed, it's impossible since they always have the spacing needed to avoid it. The only way to do is if I Power shield a move to grab, that's the only way i can grab them in a move, if not it doesnt work.

Sorry but shield grabbing is an out-dated tactic from 2007 lol.

 

[spider_sense]

These Falcos I play cannot be shield grabbed, it's impossible since they always have the spacing needed to avoid it. The only way to do is if I Power shield a move to grab, that's the only way i can grab them in a move, if not it doesnt work.

Sorry but shield grabbing is an out-dated tactic from 2007 lol.

Nah it's still applicable, just gotta put em in the right situation Warrior. If they're spacing then retreat your fair oos for more favorable results.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

These Falcos I play cannot be shield grabbed, it's impossible since they always have the spacing needed to avoid it. The only way to do is if I Power shield a move to grab, that's the only way i can grab them in a move, if not it doesnt work.

Sorry but shield grabbing is an out-dated tactic from 2007 lol.

kage is finding the things that have frustrated me lately...especially when I played pp. If you can grab a falco without a powershield, he's doin it wrong.

there are still ways I guess...

 

[-ACE-]

Sorry but shield grabbing is an out-dated tactic from 2007 lol.

Not exactly.

 

[spider_sense]

Haha I guess you guys forgot about Magus and Tipman's posts about grabbing Falco's dairs and shines.

 

[Divinokage]

Haha I guess you guys forgot about Magus and Tipman's posts about grabbing Falco's dairs and shines.

You can't pivot in your shield if they overshoot the dair, and if they shine behind you, Ganon has no answer to that. True Falcos, don't make stupid mistake with their spacing.

 

[-ACE-]

You can't pivot in your shield if they overshoot the dair, and if they shine behind you, Ganon has no answer to that. True Falcos, don't make stupid mistake with their spacing.

Buffer a roll through them. It's seriously that easy in 90% of those situations in tournament play. I don't need to hear about "true falcos" because there isn't a doubt in my mind that the best Falco in the world vs Ganon is Dr Peepee.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

and i'm pretty sure dr peepee is untouchable...i managed to get about 50% against him one match. pretty sure i was invincible when i dealt all of it. i know i'm inexperienced to a degree but man...

and talking to him, he thinks its 60-40 at worst, probably 55-45 in his eyes. yet he still knows how to shut down like every option...ugh.

 

[-ACE-]

If Fox and Sheik are 60/40 on Ganon, Falco is like 58/42 or something (imo). Numbers are pretty dumb sometimes but to me Fox and Sheik are on the same tier of difficulty, as are Falco and Falcon, who are a tad less difficult.

55/45 is a bit too even for Falco vs Ganon... I think a lot of people judged that matchup too quickly, partially based on the many Linguini/Chops matches that occured over the years. Those matches were close to even (although guini won almost every time), but really, Linguini just played the matchup better than Chops. Chops was and still is incredible at this game, but he definitely gave Linguini way too many openings in those matches. PP is a much more defensive and cautious player in comparison, and still possesses the same offensive capabilities (obviously I'm generalizing here, but yeah). PP is not untouchable by any means, but he is definitely THE Falco to beat if you're a Ganon main.

 

[Divinokage]

Well I have a much easier time with Sheik than Falco for some reason.. maybe it's just my style idk.

 

[Linguini]

If Fox and Sheik are 60/40 on Ganon, Falco is like 58/42 or something (imo). Numbers are pretty dumb sometimes but to me Fox and Sheik are on the same tier of difficulty, as are Falco and Falcon, who are a tad less difficult.

55/45 is a bit too even for Falco vs Ganon... I think a lot of people judged that matchup too quickly, partially based on the many Linguini/Chops matches that occured over the years. Those matches were close to even (although guini won almost every time), but really, Linguini just played the matchup better than Chops. Chops was and still is incredible at this game, but he definitely gave Linguini way too many openings in those matches. PP is a much more defensive and cautious player in comparison, and still possesses the same offensive capabilities (obviously I'm generalizing here, but yeah). PP is not untouchable by any means, but he is definitely THE Falco to beat if you're a Ganon main.

Not exactly man lol, i'll only expand on it if you really want to know.....

 

[Divinokage]

Not exactly man lol, i'll only expand on it if you really want to know.....

I'd like to know, =P

 

[Linguini]

lol, the most difficult falco's to fight as ganon are shiz, chops,pp,mango,zhu in that order.

To feel like you can dominate the falco matchup,it takes a lot of precision and practice. It obviously can be done,because I have.

 

[Divinokage]

I really wonder how you'll do vs Bam.

 

[Linguini]

I really wonder how you'll do vs Bam.

i'm pretty confident it'd be an uphill battle for him lol