Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Bizzarro Flame]

yeah, i meant on-stage fighting

thanks for the input, i think some ganon experts spammed up-b for fun against peach mains, making them freaked out.

 

[DippnDots]

Best ganon ever is still the lvl 9, i'd recommend just picking peach and seeing when he does it :O Probably not the best idea but it'll show you some of the things it can beat. (it = up-b)

 

[Manondorf]

What do you think is the most useful thing you can do to improve your game when you can't find someone to play with?

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

What do you think is the most useful thing you can do to improve your game when you can't find someone to play with?

Practice your tech skill in the meantime. Also, experiment a bit with other characters so you can figure out appropriate spacing while fighting them.

 

[DippnDots]

Definitely tech skill, not talking about doing wavedashes and wavelands everywhere, also work on being able to move ...IMMEDIATELY... as soon as you can out of attacks, aerials, grabbing the edge, whatever. You really gotta work on crunching time as ganon.

One extremely extremely important thing you can do that's probably easier to train alone is ledge teching, do the whole proximity mine on the edge in training mode and just keep practicing. Beyond just getting the tech, i'd practice doing the tech wall jump to an instant up-b (into the stage) to practice being able to hit people with it who are too close to the edge and trying to edge guard you. It's a really handy skill.

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

So I've watched Triforce of Power about a billion times.

And Tipman still impresses me to this day.

 

[-ACE-]

Definitely tech skill, not talking about doing wavedashes and wavelands everywhere, also work on being able to move ...IMMEDIATELY... as soon as you can out of attacks, aerials, grabbing the edge, whatever. You really gotta work on crunching time as ganon.

Agreed. I'd also add that practicing other ledge tricks (RLD, runoff > dj) and platform/shield dropping will give you more options and help you surprise your opponents.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

Just got back from Insane Triumph. Wobbles won, Darkrain in second, Broly(Marth) in third. By the way, Broly plays using his face. Crazy stuff, vids later.

I fought my first Ice Climbers! It was only 2 friendlies, but they were both very close. Wobbles is too good. I played Darkrain twice also. Close first match, then I got 2 stocked second. Broly just ***** me. I have nothing more to say about that. Just know that if a guy plays using his face, it is really hard to read him as everything he does is so out of the ordinary.

Advice against the climbers: Side-B and DAIR! Especially dair.

 

[Palpi]

What do you mean using his face?

 

[spider_sense]

Great job Clue. Haha hope you didn't bring out that "Arizona Anger"

To answer the question about tech skills, I rarely play melee to practice tech skills, but when I do, I start off my wave dashing in and out of my shield. Wave lands with and without double jumping. Then I break it down to the very basics. Such as shffling and go all the way up to the extreme stuff like side-b ledge cancel > wave land forward > ledge cancel with an aerial of my choice > double jump (perfect wave land) to moonwalk in one direction then short hop wave land to the other. I'm trying to learn how to grab the ledge with the invincibility and run off bair technique Tipman made up. It's extremely useful for when people are really close to the ledge and want to hit you.

 

[Broken_HitBox]

So I've watched Triforce of Power about a billion times.

And Tipman still impresses me to this day.

True Story

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

What do you mean using his face?

He's handicapped, so he uses one hand just to press the R trigger, and then I think he moves the control stick with his lips while pressing the buttons by pressing his tongue through his cheek.

 

[Divinokage]

Holy crap, for real?

Edit: On my side, I've been training well.. I'm trying to perfect reads and edgeguards, and i must say it's coming really well. I'm trying to make anyone that I will play do what I want always.. it's the secret to the warrior BS. =)

It worked in Poker really well too! Played a cash game 20$ buy-in with 2 tables, 8 people on each table.. and then i ended up with 120$. Everyone I played against felt un-easy and then from there, i can easily control them lol.

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

He's handicapped, so he uses one hand just to press the R trigger, and then I think he moves the control stick with his lips while pressing the buttons by pressing his tongue through his cheek.

Dayum. And he got top 3? That's insane.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

played jim in tournament yesterday. i've never had so much fun losing. took him to game three, but in a way, i had no intention of winning. i'm not there yet

i need a lot more experience. NC is good for that cause there are so many tournaments, but i wanna get so good so fast and...its sorta happening...but i still have a ways to go.

in other news, some of those fox vids i talked about ages ago are up. they're the latest vids uploaded on the channel. i haven't even watched them yet, but as always i'm looking for advice and critique. thanks in advance.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SmashLordSpoon

 

[-ACE-]

Were your matches with Jim dittos?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, all of em.

that tourney i beat zio and snap, lost to twitch and jim. it was amazing, met ali and everything. 38 entrants all NC. pretty cramped in that apartment haha

 

[-ACE-]

Nice. Ali is the man. I've had so many dittos with Jim haha. Love that guy. I just watched some of your matches with spoon. I gotta talk to you about that Fox matchup some!

 

[Bl@ckChris]

agreed. soon i'll go out to the living room and watch those; my laptop is too slow and skips important frames lol. i learned a few things from karn this weekend about using empty jumps, not getting baited into using fairs, and how a late enough nair from fox can prevent a cc jab (which killed me a little inside) but how if they always do it that late, an ftilt should be a reasonable response, and how keeping them close to the edge won't let them get the running start for that proper approach.

my next segment of training is stage control. i have down techskill, and i've started thinking about techs and positioning, and next, i'll work on zoning/forcing people to the edge when advantageous and drawing people toward the edge when desirable.

/scrubrant

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah, cc jab is great but there's really no getting around the nair > shine approach if the Fox player knows what he's doing. Not getting baited into fairs is good too. Playing Fox means a lot of defense, retreating sh uairs/fairs, and countering approaches (with ftilt like you mentioned, and jab... and aerials, but they are a tad more situational).

 

[Magus420]

It should still be possible to CC jab n-air regardless (unless you mean n-air behind you) since at worst you're at +2 plus whatever half n-air's hitlag is. You just can't wait to see it hit you before doing it and you jab right after they would be landing. If you're not actually crouching and are just DIing down while in lag you can't jab them in time if it hits right before landing though, since you need the reduced hitlag you get from the crouch to have enough time.

 

[-ACE-]

Good lord Magus. So the hitstun cut in half buys you enough time to always get a jab in, technically?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

but you have to start it before you actually realize youre hit...

so you probably have about 1/15th of a second to get that jab in between shine coming out two frames before the jab hitbox and an l canceled nair...

sounds like something worth perfecting

 

[-ACE-]

sounds like something worth perfecting

Maybe if you're that precise. I'm pretty good at perfecting intricate strats but I doubt you'll see me putting in the effort to master this one. Of course I'll try it if I know the nair is coming and it's unavoidable, but I'm going to try to stay out of situations like that at all costs.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah i was being a little facetious.

i have a lot of things on the list of learning before i learn how to jab before...i can jab...

i still have a sneaking suspicion that the bair hitbox is bigger than what i'm spacing it as. my game needs work.

 

[Juno McGrath]

He's handicapped, so he uses one hand just to press the R trigger, and then I think he moves the control stick with his lips while pressing the buttons by pressing his tongue through his cheek.

wow.

sigging this. **** marth. too easy.

 

[Magus420]

It's half hitlag, but yeah. I think it has around 6 hitlag, so that's +3 you'd gain on him when hit out of a crouch. Ganon's landing lag is 5 and n-air's is 7, so at the very worst you'd be +5 with a window of 3 for the jab to work. Realistically they won't be that perfect most of the time so you'd probably have 4-5 jab timings that would work when they low n-air.

They can still do other stuff though like if they just land without the n-air they'd be able to shine you slightly before the time you'd be doing the jab expecting to CCC the low n-air. Against that specifically though I guess you could try quickly pressing it twice. The 1st one being right as they touch the floor so it'd be during hitlag if they n-air (and do nothing) but on no n-air would jab and hit before the shine, then by the time you press A again it'd be the right timing for the CCC if they n-aired.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

your sig is too good magus. i had seen the moveswitch between peach and falcon before but that raptorfail made me lol.

thats really good to know, i'll probably try it a little more, but in the end, if i can either ftilt before they nair, or wavedash back in time, those are both options that may be more applicable with more than a 3-5 frame window to work.

magus with the "nothing is impossible" knowledge. i thoroghly approve and appreciate it.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

wow.

sigging this. **** marth. too easy.

Are you suggesting that it is easy to play using your lips and tongue? Try that sh** and then tell me it's easy.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

no, he's always salty about marth. pay him no mind, clue. he's always joked and said that you could play marth one handed. he's a peach main.

ganon dittos:

uair beats fair
jab beats ganon

^ what i learned from jim, more or less. no, i know theres more to the matchup to this. i just kept foolishly running in after he missed a fair, always forgetting that fairs hitbox actually has 3 more frames of massive priority called the jab after it, and it pretty much got me *****. i'm such a foolish child.

 

[Palpi]

We should play again soon Magus, smashfest or not =]

My Ganon improved...to a certain extent...it seemed like i have reached a wall, but my marth and fox are better =]

 

[Juno McGrath]

Are you suggesting that it is easy to play using your lips and tongue? Try that sh** and then tell me it's easy.

Ive been joking for about four months that if i ever lost a hand i would play marth. lol that anyone could do it. haha.

thats why its funny to me and probably everyone in my state haha.

 

[spider_sense]

Chris you got amazingly good. Keep up the excellent work. The run off uair was a little risky, but I guess you were trying to keep it creative. If you see a fox fire stalling, please don't hesitate to go out there and let em have it! It also looks like you're being a little too anxious with your techs because you air dodged quite a bit in some of those matches. Haha you're also gonna have to switch up other tech chasing options; I think you're throwing out way too many side-b's at random moments, sometimes they worked out for you, and sometime they really didn't. Remember apply pressure with Ganon and follow up everything with tech chase (I.E Tech forward = Fair, Tech in place Dair etc)

@ Magus. Is there any possible way to shield grab Fox's nairs? Every time I try I seem to get shined, or they're able to spot dodge. What's the best way to grab them? I feel Ganon has other options around that beside CC to jabs or tilts.

 

[Divinokage]

Ive been joking for about four months that if i ever lost a hand i would play marth. lol that anyone could do it. haha.

thats why its funny to me and probably everyone in my state haha.

So.. something you were joking about back in the day actually came to pass? ... I'm not sure what to say lol.

 

[SDC]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so I wouldn't know if this question has been asked already (if it has, direct me to the approximate page please), but:

What do I do if I get a grab on Marth at extremely low percents, like around 0-10 or 20%? If I do downthrow it seems like it's too low to get another grab or get off a bair/uair.

 

[Juno McGrath]

So.. something you were joking about back in the day actually came to pass? ... I'm not sure what to say lol.

Lol pretty much. That's why someone linked me the thread someone was talking about it in. Haha

So i guess I've got some questions for you fine fellas. What should peach do against Gannon if the Gannon catches almost every turnip I throw out for turnip > fair?

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

so, How to wreck

Spoiler

mango

es with ganon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJSx0Tlj8-8


Have any tips of how to break the habit of DI'ing towards chars at lower-mid percentages?

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

Lol pretty much. That's why someone linked me the thread someone was talking about it in. Haha

So i guess I've got some questions for you fine fellas. What should peach do against Gannon if the Gannon catches almost every turnip I throw out for turnip > fair?

Argh, for the record he also ***** marth in dittos. That has nothing to do with how easy marth.

I played DoH at this past tournament and I catch almost every single turnip and instant z-drop it or throw it back at him. The solution is to NOT throw turnips.

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

played jim in tournament yesterday. i've never had so much fun losing. took him to game three, but in a way, i had no intention of winning. i'm not there yet

i need a lot more experience. NC is good for that cause there are so many tournaments, but i wanna get so good so fast and...its sorta happening...but i still have a ways to go.

I know what you mean. Except I live in an area where so few people play. =(

 

[n0ne]

@ seanthedonconsidine High f-tilt, u can even crouch and wait for him to act, if he double jumps, abuse that with infinite uairs , lol. if he just does a falling aerial, CC and punish. Mix it up though, or his response after the grab will always be to counter what you are doing.