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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
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The back country, GA
Lol it really is ridiculous how much things have changed... Tipman made so many mistakes in that match and still wrecked ****

It must have been hard for the falcon player not to pause the game and Falcon Punch the guy running his mouth after he lost his first stock lol
 
SwizzyUK

SwizzyUK

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
253
Pawls to the Wall said:
You were way too easy to read IMO. To fix that, I would say that you need to mobilize your ganon a bit more. Spend less time standing still.
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Bizzarro Flame said:
@swizzy: yeah you have the same issue that I do... not mobilizing enough
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I practiced this at a little smashfest on sunday - went pretty well. I wouldn't say I'm ready to make a 'Ganon on Ice' just yet though :p

Linguini said:
Swizzy,the 2 main things you have to work on are stage control and edgeguarding. In regards to stage control, which is especially crucial against the higher tier characters, you need to maintain a comfortable distance from you and your opponent. The next step is knowing what moves are safe once you are in a desirable position. Retreating fairs are always good, but I saw that you lack uairs and tilts especially. Tilts are counters to sh nairs, and uairs are counters to sh nair and full hop nair approaches from fox.

When edgeguarding with ganon your going to want to find a comfortable neutral position where you feel as though you can cover the most options. I felt like you were a little lost in terms of this, although your edgeguarding techniques themselves were quite good.

Nice ganon though man, and BTW the dair at 1:01 broke my heart.......****ing PAL ganon......
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I'm finding this a little harder to put into my game. I focused on stage control, and it helped my falco game, but weakened my concentration on other stuff. I guess it's something you get with time and a little practice.
Got any tips for improving edgeguarding? Is it just a case of watching vids and seeing what works? I'm going to a tourney in paris next weekend and I've got some good smash practice time scheduled in beforehand so any solid tips would be awesome.

And yeah, whenever I watch NTSC, I envy that dair stomp so bad...

Thanks for the advice guys
 
DippnDots

DippnDots

Feral Youth
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You're pretty good against fox Swizzy. My thoughts on your edge guarding is you look anxious, like you don't know what to expect from the fox at all. And i'm saying this because your ganon looks like mine does when i'm feeling that way at the edge :p And then we miss the timing on the edge guard, just a tad bit too soon or too late.

What I do to combat that is always expect the fox to forward-b above the stage or to the edge. Since that's his fastest option, i'm always looking for it. If he ends up using his up-b, you get some time to plan your response, plus you can really hone your instincts to figure out where he's going to end up at the end of it which is a huge advantage, every little bit of information helps!

Anyways, every fox has their recovery tricks, it's best to recognize where they end up after recovery and not their path during, necessarily. Platform edges are popular now a days, but as long as you can cause a hitbox to be where the fox will end up at the end of his recovery, you're doing enough as ganon, odds are they'll be back off the edge again. Extra credit, don't let them get their second jump back :D

Furthermore, recognize the tell tale actions. Simple simple logical analysis that can go unnoticed, if a spacie uses their double jump and ends up going below the edge, they're going to up-b, with falco especially, don't be afraid to run off the stage and smack them, immediately as they can no longer side b to grab the edge, that's when you want to be falling off the stage.

I gotta run, i hope i helped :\ Maybe you'd like to give me some critiques, i'm gonna try to upload some videos soon. Something tells me that I'm not gonna get much better at this point if I don't at least record videos of myself for myself to watch. And I get thrashed by patient quick foxes
 
L

Linguini

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SwizzyUK

SwizzyUK

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Dippn: Your post made me realise a really minor point that I should've realised ages ago but didn't... so yeah, pretty helpful!

Get those vids of you vs Shiz, Linguini. My Falco game is s**t right now.
 
TommyDerMeister

TommyDerMeister

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****. I loved that game so much. I find it difficult to find anyone who has even heard of it, let alone play it.
 
TommyDerMeister

TommyDerMeister

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lol. I need to go back and finish getting the additions for every character, i think i missing the last one for most characters.
 
B

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
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Greensboro, NC
oh, i never mentioned this, because its really not worthwhile, but i'm pr'd in NC right now. but we've had pretty weak attendance lately (so weak, l0zr wasn't on these...he hasn't shown up in a while...), but for what it is, they count me 10th, for now.

even though i'm pr'd, ik i'm not top 10, but thanks again for all the help you guys have given me. hopefully i can earn that spot and rise higher even after guys like l0zr, Ali and ACE are able to go to tourneys again.

in other news, i'm heading to a smashfest with l0zr and the sheik player i always lose to. i'll do my best to get vids if there's any recording setups, and i'll let you guys know how it goes. i'll probably come back with more questions, so get ready :)
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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Montreal, Quebec
Go for it, Chris.. if you want to become higher ranking then you must defeat your rivals! That's one of the most important Mental Block everyone has to overcome. It's hard to do because they know your playstyle inside out... you really have to become unpredictable to beat them. Anyways, show more vids! =D

Edit: Gust of wind dance!
 
W

walrusface

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What I do is use Gerudo Dragon, and then follow up with Drark Dive. That works on higher percentages of damage, and larger tarets (such as Bowser). in fact, you can even follow up with Wizard's Foot sometimes. Also, when your opponent is recovering horizontally, throw a Warlock Punch with good timing.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
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The back country, GA
Both Ganon and Marth are better in singles than they are in doubles. Any team combination has potential and can see success under the right circumstances, but Ganon and Marth both need some space to work with so that they have time to read their opponent and abuse their range. You just don't have many opportunities to do that when you're up against a really good Fox/Falco team (for one example). It's good to have a teammate that is fast and has a good approach and combos, and can do a lot of damage/KO quickly up close, imo. I really like Fox, Peach and Sheik... Falco is great but gets gimped a little more often than those 3, marth is good but requires space like Ganon.. Falcon can get away with a lot due to his speed, but in the end he requires space also and basically gets gimped just as bad as Ganon. /ramble
 
B

Bl@ckChris

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sheik isn't as bad as I thought. DJ, the sheik that was fourstocking me in tourney, was being forced to one stock, but I don't think I beat hime there. Fiz, a sheik that I hadn't played since my first tourney, beat me 2-0 in tourney, but later that night I beat hime 3-2 in a 3 dollar mm.

I'm finally fast enough to to the cg. I just cant get a satisfying finisher. When they DI the uair that I usuallt finish with, they're still...around, lol
 
mers

mers

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walrusface said:
What I do is use Gerudo Dragon, and then follow up with Drark Dive. That works on higher percentages of damage, and larger tarets (such as Bowser). in fact, you can even follow up with Wizard's Foot sometimes. Also, when your opponent is recovering horizontally, throw a Warlock Punch with good timing.
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You guys aren't listening to this man properly.

Do what he says.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Nice as usual clue, but I don't think these vids did your Ganon justice. You still play a good bit? I wanted to see more tilts in your edgeguarding (nice grab on the illusion btw, I love doing that haha). It seemed like you were playing it safe with reverse uairs and bairs, which isn't a bad thing, but you missed out on some KO opportunities. 0:52 on the first match was a perfect opportunity for the ACE guard (haha, I love saying that), where you follow up a reverse uair with an immediate dropzone dair. 2nd match at 0:24, you had a great reverse uair and Fox was basically begging for a shorthop dair offstage and you didn't hand it to him. I think your overall defense vs Fox could use some work.. essentially I just mean maintaining the prefered safe distance from Fox so that when he challenges you he'll be running into the disjointed/"stronger" parts of your hitboxes (in other words, keeping that distance, which is just outside of tilt range, will make spacing aerials and tilts much easier). Retreating sh uair is a great wall move up close that doesn't limit your options drastically, but if you have some extra space fair is great and so is ftilt... the biggest issue is challenging that nasty nair approach so you ideally you want everything spaced. vs Marth you were looking good, combo DI wasn't exactly on point but I think I'm too much of a critic sometimes haha. Your Ganon is still ****, keep posting vids!!
 
Pawls to the Wall

Pawls to the Wall

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Thanks for the advice, I'll try to keep that it mind for next month....haha, since we really don't get to play much around here anymore. I feel like I've gotten better, which is weird since I'm getting less and less practice.

Anyway, I think my style is a bit different from yours. I'm more of a watch-and-see kinda player, while you are the more fun to watch aggressive player.
 
DippnDots

DippnDots

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Kels is less aggressive than most foxes but I still agree it's a good example, I'd really like to see some matches of linguini kage or tipman against jman or hazz. Not trying to get into a who the best fox is, i'd just like to see how a solid ganon goes about against their styles. Hell I wish m2k still played fox >_>
 
B

Bl@ckChris

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i just finished playing a good fox. we recorded a ton, and hopefully those vids will be up sooner rather than later (his setup, not mine). i've really applied good things in those matches, and i think i edgeguarded pretty well. they should be useful and worthwhile matches to watch.

i've gotten a lot better again, and i think that'll shine through in these matches. especially my DI.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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That description of colbol's style reminds me of how lozr's Fox plays Ganon. That guy is so hard to beat it's not even funny, and he's not campy by any means. He just really chooses his approaches well and is good at approaching at the right moment (not to mention his near flawless edgeguarding). He's very familiar with Ganon's options and has a solid Ganon himself.

Downloading those matches now.

Haha, this is going to take forever. How do you open asf files?
 
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