Divinokage
Smash Legend
You can also downtilt out of shield or lower Ftilt if you see her crouch after you shielded a move.
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
Linguini
Smash Master
Yeah you pretty much got the jist of it. You can fair jiggs easy if she di's forward, but hbox never di's forward.
This is a really obscure question derek, this game is too deep and has thousands of relative situations in regards to ffing and not ffing.Gotta ask me something more specific. Get back down to sfl you ****ing traitor. BTW ill probably be in Gainsville next year for school. GATOR NATION BABY
Out of ganon's shield? Nahh, I doubt that you can put your shield down quickly enough,that ain't brawl.
The difference between me and hbox is that he knows the ganon matchup really well and I'm decent at the jiggs matchup only because I know how to space well. The problem is, jiggs can space better than ganon; so that only got me so far lol. Once he started catching on that I was getting my kills in from grabbing him he started playing extra homo as you saw, crouching at all times. I shouldve done more angled up f tilts actually.
I should be getting a rematch this weekend, and I think ive learned a lot about jiggs just by watching the matches so I think I might have a good chance at beating him this time around.
Later
Divinokage
Smash Legend
You must have better reaction than him! =P
How about Ftilt out of shield then? That works for sure.
How about Ftilt out of shield then? That works for sure.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
By tilting out of shield, do you mean simply dropping your shield and then tilting, or do you mean WD OoS before tilting?
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Well you can kinda already set up your shield diagonally downwards if you see he's not gonna attack from the top.. and then you can wait a little bit to see if he's gonna crouch, and if he does, Ftilt =P
CluelessBTD
Smash Ace
We're getting a new Ganon main guys and he's good. I'll record some vids tomorrow. That fox player I was talking about decided to second Ganon. F***, now I've got competition for my title as Houston's best Ganon.
Anyway, since when is shield dropping with Ganon a viable tactic? It's too slow. WD out of shield would make it much faster I'd think.
Anyway, since when is shield dropping with Ganon a viable tactic? It's too slow. WD out of shield would make it much faster I'd think.
kupo15
Smash Hero
I have a real problem. My friend is probably the campiest little **** I've ever played (yea, even in friendlies)
He plays as sheik and peach. He is so campy that we decided to put a modest time limit to discourage camping so we can actually finish the game and play a lot more, but if he is winning, he will purposely float off the stage and up b to stall out the timer to win...in a friendly. So he obviously doesn't know what friendlies are for I guess, but anyway:
What tips do you guys have against a really campy sheik? Sheik's tech roll covers a lot of ground and seeing how he always techs away, its extremely hard to catch up to him to do something. Even something simple as punishing a roll towards me is really difficult because not only does sheik have very fast cool down time on the rolls (unless my timing was just off today) but he goes right into a crouch which is out of Ganon's grab range. If I go for a stomp then he can just shield.
It's just really difficult to fight campy sheiks or peaches that don't approach especially on dreamland. Any advice to alleviating some of the headache? Thanks!
He plays as sheik and peach. He is so campy that we decided to put a modest time limit to discourage camping so we can actually finish the game and play a lot more, but if he is winning, he will purposely float off the stage and up b to stall out the timer to win...in a friendly. So he obviously doesn't know what friendlies are for I guess, but anyway:
What tips do you guys have against a really campy sheik? Sheik's tech roll covers a lot of ground and seeing how he always techs away, its extremely hard to catch up to him to do something. Even something simple as punishing a roll towards me is really difficult because not only does sheik have very fast cool down time on the rolls (unless my timing was just off today) but he goes right into a crouch which is out of Ganon's grab range. If I go for a stomp then he can just shield.
It's just really difficult to fight campy sheiks or peaches that don't approach especially on dreamland. Any advice to alleviating some of the headache? Thanks!
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
If he has a techroll away habit then punish him.. I feel like I would get ***** into oblivion if I did that against a good ganon. If you know he's going to techroll away and you can't make it consider using the wizard's foot. Very easy to do v. predictable techs. You can get there for the fair or whatever move in a lot of cases though.
And of course, the chaingrab on sheik. As a sheik main I do ganon's cg much easier than vice versa. If you're not too proficient with it (most likely due to them DIing straight behind) Just try doing it 2-3 times then position yourself for a tech chase. Against someone who hasn't practiced avoiding it you're going to get 1-2 free grabs (no DI or DI forward)... by this time they should catch on and DI fully away, in which in most cases you have to turn and JC grab at the right time in order to continue the CG. If I thought I was going to miss that cg, I would uthrow sometimes instead(esp. at higher %'s) and their DI away will position themselves for a ganon bair. If I missed the cg, and knew my opposition had a tech-roll away habit, I would immediately position myself to punish it.
And of course, the chaingrab on sheik. As a sheik main I do ganon's cg much easier than vice versa. If you're not too proficient with it (most likely due to them DIing straight behind) Just try doing it 2-3 times then position yourself for a tech chase. Against someone who hasn't practiced avoiding it you're going to get 1-2 free grabs (no DI or DI forward)... by this time they should catch on and DI fully away, in which in most cases you have to turn and JC grab at the right time in order to continue the CG. If I thought I was going to miss that cg, I would uthrow sometimes instead(esp. at higher %'s) and their DI away will position themselves for a ganon bair. If I missed the cg, and knew my opposition had a tech-roll away habit, I would immediately position myself to punish it.
kupo15
Smash Hero
I guess my timing might have been a few frames off cause at least last night, fairs resulted in shields.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Sheik's roll is like that. She seems to be able to shield sooner from rolls than other characters (with regard to the roll distance and the point at which your opponent is able to shield). Just time your aerial (or whichever move you use to punish) a bit sooner and you should be fine.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Yea, I think against sheik I need more of the mentality of "her running into my attacks" instead of "me hitting her with my moves" since she is so fast
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
SiD
Smash Master
Lol yeah, it always amuses me when my friend, who is far better than me, runs into a bair. It annoys him every time.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Just a small trick I would like to share on Yoshi's hopefully its something that might spark people's interest and isn't old.
This is when recovering on the cloud or any time which you land on the cloud. Usually people try fancy cloud guarding or trying to position themselves to gimp you on the cloud. I've found this trick pretty neat. The trick is to wait on the cloud and when you are on the lower level, charge a Usmash up. This most likely will provoke some sort of action from the opponent since you appear to be doing a blind Usmash charge for no reason.
Release the Usmash then what happens is the Usmash gets canceled because the cloud goes away and you slide off but the neat thing is that ganon's second jump is a perfect height to sweetspot the ledge from that distance.
Even if they aren't noob enough to just walk into your usmash, at least the Usmash is a safe way to clear the ledge (since the foot goes above the stage) and right into a ledge sweet spot.
Its a pretty interesting tactic
This is when recovering on the cloud or any time which you land on the cloud. Usually people try fancy cloud guarding or trying to position themselves to gimp you on the cloud. I've found this trick pretty neat. The trick is to wait on the cloud and when you are on the lower level, charge a Usmash up. This most likely will provoke some sort of action from the opponent since you appear to be doing a blind Usmash charge for no reason.
Release the Usmash then what happens is the Usmash gets canceled because the cloud goes away and you slide off but the neat thing is that ganon's second jump is a perfect height to sweetspot the ledge from that distance.
Even if they aren't noob enough to just walk into your usmash, at least the Usmash is a safe way to clear the ledge (since the foot goes above the stage) and right into a ledge sweet spot.
Its a pretty interesting tactic
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Hmm Tipman did something similar to DJ Nintendo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh_e0j2dNhA <---It starts at 1:17 of the match. Is that what you mean Kupo as far as keeping the height of the jump and re grabbing the ledge?
kupo15
Smash Hero
Yea, kinda. Except instead you do it from the left side. You cancel the Usmash similarly like he canceled the Fsmash except the cancel happens the frame after the hitbox goes away. This is much easier to do on the Usmash than the Fsmash.
But yea, mine only can occur on the left side because you cancel it when the cloud path is on the bottom portion. After the cancel, the double jump is the perfect height to sweet spot. You can even mindgame by purposely taking the hit while charging, teching off of the wall into a counter Uair or for some crazy ****, down b spike if they decide to try and go down there.
The cloud can feel so safe sometimes
But yea, mine only can occur on the left side because you cancel it when the cloud path is on the bottom portion. After the cancel, the double jump is the perfect height to sweet spot. You can even mindgame by purposely taking the hit while charging, teching off of the wall into a counter Uair or for some crazy ****, down b spike if they decide to try and go down there.
The cloud can feel so safe sometimes
Ballistics
Smash Champion
lol nimbus advanced tactics, its good when you can think about the nimbus rotation the whole game in your mind
SiD
Smash Master
It's not nimbus. His name is Wilson.
Linguini
Smash Master
lol ive been doing that u smash and fsmash thing for a while. the other day i edgeguarded a fox by wavelanding onto the cloud and u smashing as he recovered into me with the firefox, hahahaha
SiD
Smash Master
I love that level as Ganondorf, it's so easy to kill nukkahs
spider_sense
Smash Champion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6w1RYAJjeM&feature=related
Yo can anybody explain wtf just happened at the very of this match. HBK clearly had his shield up and still got dair'ed. Now I understand the concept of shield poking (at least I think I do lol) But doesn't the opponent have to be vulnerable in a certain spot to still get hit?
I especially want Mr. Kage to tackle this for me, since I dunno how he even did this in the first place.
Yo can anybody explain wtf just happened at the very of this match. HBK clearly had his shield up and still got dair'ed. Now I understand the concept of shield poking (at least I think I do lol) But doesn't the opponent have to be vulnerable in a certain spot to still get hit?
I especially want Mr. Kage to tackle this for me, since I dunno how he even did this in the first place.
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
This happens to me occasionally.. I always thought it was because the SH dair hits exposed parts of your char(stuff like legs outside the shield) with it's crazy hitbox. But idk.......
I believe how shield poking works is that the hitbox of your move has to connect with what would normally be their hurtbox without touching your hitbox to any part of the shield. Now, since the legs come out like a frame or so before the rest of the hitbox (aka the entire body) of the stomp, and Kage fastfalls to make the majority of his legs go into the stage, only the very top of the hitbox connects, but it hits Marth's (or any char, provided the room) legs without touching the shield, causing a shield poke. For how to actually time it, you're going to have to ask Kage.
I'm pretty sure that's how it works, but when in doubt, ask Magus.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Well basically shield poking works by using precise attacks where there is no shield when they are shielding. There are difficulty per character of how easy or hard shield poking will be on full shields. Like Marth is really easy to shield poke since his shield sucks, his shield does not cover his full body so if you see him tilt his shield downwards, you can backair/far his head and it will hit. And like you saw the downair through the shield, you have to use it at the last moment for it to go through, if not then it's gonna hit the shield..
You can also watch for example Me vs Cactuar at SPOC I think first match on Yoshis I did it or Me vs Mikehaze on Mutecity (Tourneyplay 3).. Me vs Hax first match on BF (MM at Pound 4) also. Watch also the last match vs Mango on BF too, (theres a fair through his shield)
To master Shield poking, you have to pay attention how the hitbox work for every move and master when to fastfall or not and it's also about timing. If the opponent is on top of a platform and he tries to shield, have you ever Up air through his shield often or maybe hit the top of your fair on his feet? That works against every character or almost. That's probably the easiest way to do it. Now on the ground, ya it really depends what character you face, because you won't go for shield pokes often, since it's too risky. But it's always a good ability to have since it gets people by surprise and as you saw everyone bad DIs a move like that.
I can maybe go into more specifics but you gotta ask the questions. =P
Edit: Also details about frames, and moveset and how it looks like, Magus plox. I summon you!
Magus420
Smash Master
When the d-air comes out right before landing the lowest hitbox is mostly inside the floor with the top part of it sticking above ground just enough to clip people's feet which is why it can poke even if you're right ontop of them. If any of the hitboxes on a move hits their hurtbox without hitting the shield you get the poke even if all the others are hitting the shield.
On the topic of shield pokes, if you drop through a platform while next to someone, start a f-air at the first chance you can it will shield poke almost any character in the game that's hard shielding and not angling it down, even if the shield is completely undamaged.
On the topic of shield pokes, if you drop through a platform while next to someone, start a f-air at the first chance you can it will shield poke almost any character in the game that's hard shielding and not angling it down, even if the shield is completely undamaged.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Hehe, ya. Thanks. =)
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
WOWOWOW that shield poke is amazing, Magus. I 'm going to try that out, now. I normally just try to stay under them when they're on top of me on a platform, and I shield poke with an angled up FTilt. It normally works. That leads to another aerial, depending on %.
Renth
Smash Hero
I played beyond poorly yesterday in tournament. I am sorry.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
It's ok just take what you learned and continue forward. =P
Linguini
Smash Master
at least you went renth, i got parent cancelled hard LOL
Renth
Smash Hero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0ugX9qI5jo
Linguini, Kage.
Let me have it, tell me what I need to work on.
Linguini - you play colin more than I do give me something to work with.
Linguini, Kage.
Let me have it, tell me what I need to work on.
Linguini - you play colin more than I do give me something to work with.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Summary on how to wreck *****es with Ganon:
Stomp a *****.
Stomp a *****.
Stomp'em in the nuts...
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Lol I ain't Guini but we do have a fox like that down here in the south. But yeah you gotta work on making a small wall that consist of nothing but uairs, tilts, and jabs while spacing. You missed a few shield grabbing opportunities on Yoshi's that could have turned the match in your favor, also mixing up your recovery helps a bit and throws them off balance when they're trying to edge guard. Additionally watch out on where you throw fairs and dairs, because those our mad laggy and easy to punish. So make sure you do it when you're either tech chasing or edge guarding and dairs should only be used when you're still on the level. Also retreating bairs keep foxes approaches at bay. Uhh...that's all I can think off atm. But yeah it's Colbol and we know how good he is vs Ganon. So yeah, overall you did pretty well. Just gotta tweak a couple of things. Oh and I still want that $5 MM.
Renth
Smash Hero
I typically refuse MMs, but if you really want to I don't see why not, come to Noob 2.I still want that $5 MM.
- Thanks for everything listed above.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
Ganon has the sexiest wavelands in the game.
Ganon's metagame:
Stomp a *****'s nuts.
Waveland like a ****ing g.
Ganon's metagame:
Stomp a *****'s nuts.
Waveland like a ****ing g.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
I'm definitely gonna start traveling now since I have funds available. lol You don't have to MM, but that 100 pennies one is going to go down. I got the jar and everything.
S.R. XXVII
Smash Ace
Stomp em in da nuts.
Renth
Smash Hero
Lol I Need A Jar!
Lordydennek
Smash Ace
Is yoshis story good against peach? Im assuming so.
Im going to be playing a good peach this weekend anyone have any helpful insights?
Im going to be playing a good peach this weekend anyone have any helpful insights?