Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

Is yoshis story good against peach? Im assuming so.

Im going to be playing a good peach this weekend anyone have any helpful insights?

Catch turnips, take your time and wait for openings, fully space your aerials, try to get some shieldgrabs and dthrow > uair/bair at low%, fair/bair at high%. Around 60-65 you can dthrow usmash if they don't DI. Edgeguard her with reverse uair, or if you're really good at spacing the dair you can catch the front of her dress with it. Watch out for turnip > fair and bair > dsmash, and don't jump near peach if she is on a platform (it's essentially just as bad as CC'ing a dsmash).

/brief

 

[TommyDerMeister]

I hate her so much.

 

[Lordydennek]

aight thats cool. thanks.
also
I cant quite get a leg up on the marth matchup. it always comes down to one stock each and then me getting fsmashed and edgegaurded. I dont use tilts much are they useful? i had some success with the dtilt in this match up but my ftilts get punished. what are some good combos?

 

[Dr. Hyde]

aight thats cool. thanks.
also
I cant quite get a leg up on the marth matchup. it always comes down to one stock each and then me getting fsmashed and edgegaurded. I dont use tilts much are they useful? i had some success with the dtilt in this match up but my ftilts get punished. what are some good combos?

Against Marth I kinda forsake combos for follow ups, Dthrow to Bair and Uair work, Fair sometimes for me. the main thing is that trading hits with Marth works only for a little bit before they get the upper hand in combos. Crouch canceling works wonders too.

 

[Lordydennek]

ah. yes. I dont cc enough with Ganon. also on the edge gaurd any tips if i cant get the reverse uair in time?

 

[-ACE-]

legit, useful combos vs marth

dthrow chaingrab 0-15%
dthrow + bair or uair is guaranteed until marth's damage is really high (bair for di behind, uair for in front)
dthrow + fair works once marth is roughly 60% or more and they DI in front (of course, bair if they di behind)
dtilt + uair (and if they don't DI away, uair again)

if his approaches are giving you trouble, try fully spacing a bair against his nair/fair. If you're precise it'll always win.

make sure you DI his hits away, away away.. until your % gets high or you see the fsmash coming

a lot of marth's like to get sh double fair happy. if you shield the first fair, you are guaranteed a uair out of shield before the 2nd one comes.

a marth that knows what he's doing in the matchup is going to be camping for some grabs at some point, so make sure you mix up your techs.

check out the marth section in the thread Ganon vs. I just woke up and I'm drawing a blank lol.. i had a post about edgeguarding marth recently in one of these threads too. I'm actually working on a detailed Ganon edgeguarding guide for at least half of the cast.. maybe i'll have it up in a few days.

 

[Magus420]

Marth is one of those midweight or lighter + slightly above average fallspeed or floatier characters that you can hit with f-air after d-throw regardless of how they DI it (Peach is another char it's great against). Works at like 80+ for when they DI behind though you gotta be quick at that percent to keep him from falling too low. It's also great for when they're above like 130ish and b-airs will start to not reach him when they DI full behind. Also, d-throw u-smash when they don't DI or DI away.

 

[-ACE-]

Magus you're right, I remember you making a post about that months ago here lol. I was just trying to keep the advice simple since lordykennek had a tourney coming up really soon.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

M2K kinda joked that Marth could spam Nair fast enough that Ganon couldn't do anything, I forget the link but it looked pretty dumb but true, is it?

 

[-ACE-]

Haha, nah that's not true. I think he said that as a joke after that really old vid of him beating Chaddd's Ganon in a friendly or something. Ganon's bair ***** marth's nair.

 

[LoOshKiN]

Anyone going to SMYM?

 

[Lordydennek]

aight thanks guys. Actually not a tourny, just playing some guys i havent played in awhile. I just picked up ganon and have yet to face a peach with him.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

Do you guys know any other legit, useful combos on Peach.

I've seen dthrow>usmash, dthrow>uair, dthrow>fair and dthrow>bair

 

[SiD]

Perhaps my friend's Peach just isn't as good as his other characters, but she seems like one of the easier match ups for me.

 

[-ACE-]

Do you guys know any other legit, useful combos on Peach.

I've seen dthrow>usmash, dthrow>uair, dthrow>fair and dthrow>bair

Unfortunately there aren't a ton.

At low percent: if you land a dair at you can follow up with a lot of stuff, dtilt > uair is good, and side-b usually gives you a free aerial also.

At 0% you can uair after dthrow legit, and if they are trying to spam nair, that means they aren't DI'ing so you can uair them again. You have to be close to frame perfect to get the uair in time after the throw (especially if she DI's behind and you try to pivot uair.. it's legit but hard as ****) but it works. You can also up angled ftilt after dthrow which is arguably safer.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

Peach and Fox give me the hardest times, but I have more hate towards Peach.

Edit: I've never thought of using up angled-ftilt after a throw, I have been trying to use it when she approaches with a float.

The Peach I play with the most has real good fair spacing. I also don't think I know where to DI, any of her moves.

I kind of suck. I've been playing against the same Peach almost every weekend for the past year, and I still don't think I've learned anything about the matchup except catching turnips.

 

[DippnDots]

Anyone going to SMYM?

yeah i'll be there, watsup

 

[spider_sense]

Yo I got a question for you guys. How do you guys deal with a campy fox? Like, what's your overall strategy to get around the lasers and pressure from when they get inside. Also how do you shield grab his nairs? (Magus question lol) I'll try to shield grab a fox's nair and they'll either side step it or shine. Guini told me you Smash DI the shine, but I don't know how. So do you CC and then Smash DI? Or let it hit your shield, then go for the grab? If that's the case, then my timing is severly off.

 

[-ACE-]

Against campy foxes, make sure you don't spam aerials too close or he'll get a free nair approach, combo you, etc. Retreating uair is pretty safe when you are closer (maybe almost at tilt range), because it has a hitbox right in front of you that comes out quickly, and it only lasts 33 frames (bair is 40, all others 44, iirc) so you can DJ before he can get a nair off. As long as you aren't too close, retreating fair is pretty safe too. If you fully space a fair on their shield, ftilt is a good follow up. When you are inside and they are expecting you to fair/bair their shield, waveland > grab is killer. I like to buffer rolls out of his approaches, trying to shieldgrab Fox gets too frustrating for me sometimes lol

/random

 

[LoOshKiN]

yeah i'll be there, watsup

Just checking.
Let's teach each other how to Ganondorf.

Don't forget to fight for and keep stage control boys.

 

[DippnDots]

Whew, shouldn't be TOO hard to find each other, specially if it's the same venue.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya stage control to edgeguard is pretty much what you need the most with Ganon. Space yourself and try to get the opponent off stage as soon as possible.. the edgeguarding in general is easy to medium difficulty. Though you kinda need to have good reaction time and guessing game I suppose if you want to edgeguard successfully at low %

 

[Dogysamich]

How the f*** is that ganon specific.

You just gave me a guide to playing competitive smash bros.

 

[Divinokage]

Hell ya, it's about the mindset.. DOMINATE YOUR OPPONENT.. that's what Ganons do. lol.

 

[Dogysamich]

-rolls eyes-
oh god, this whole warrior bs.

 

[LoOshKiN]

The previous four posts should be made legendary.

 

[Lordydennek]

Sup i just dominated some *****es with Ganon. except...this dumb peach. this was the first time i have gotten to play a good peach with ganon and it didnt go to well. i mostly got 2 stocked and only took like 1 match all night. I had trouble gettinf grabs and it seemed me spacing fairs didnt work bcuz he would wd back outrange my jab and then dash attack or grab me. turnips werent a big deal. but killing her was hard. since i couldnt get dthrows in i couldnt get in aerials unless her messed up hs spacing. ugh what do i do?

but I did mess up his other characters with Ganon. twas great.

 

[Skyshroud]

Sup i just dominated some *****es with Ganon. except...this dumb peach. this was the first time i have gotten to play a good peach with ganon and it didnt go to well. i mostly got 2 stocked and only took like 1 match all night. I had trouble gettinf grabs and it seemed me spacing fairs didnt work bcuz he would wd back outrange my jab and then dash attack or grab me. turnips werent a big deal. but killing her was hard. since i couldnt get dthrows in i couldnt get in aerials unless her messed up hs spacing. ugh what do i do?

but I did mess up his other characters with Ganon. twas great.

Adapt. If your jab misses after you fair, try and FTilt. Or like, just move instead of jabbing. It sounds like you already know what the problem is, you're just not doing anything about it.

 

[SiD]

uair works good again a floating peach

 

[Lordydennek]

Adapt. If your jab misses after you fair, try and FTilt. Or like, just move instead of jabbing. It sounds like you already know what the problem is, you're just not doing anything about it.

true. but how else should i approach? stomp is to slow and bair will get cc and downsmashed. or sheild and then grab.

 

[LoOshKiN]

true. but how else should i approach? stomp is to slow and bair will get cc and downsmashed. or sheild and then grab.

Stomp is fast enough to punish a predictable D-smash silly. Bait that stupid move and stomp to grab at certain percents (*summon Magus!*), or Dair to dair to tech chase.
She could CC the stomp though at low percents so beware.

As far as the Bair goes (one of my favorite moves with Ganon), if its getting shield grabbed or CC, then SPACE better and use it in a safer fashion. Just look at it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml4CScAcg54

 

[Dr. Hyde]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml4CScAcg54

That was extremely helpful, I'll commit some of the frame data to memory. Though I couldn't tell if the little circles around the F+B move were for the hit box or the spots that dodge lasers and such, I'm still lost on when that happens.

I finally got to play some people and it has been a while, my friends who play fox and falco got their guys a little better too. I am happy with how I've progressed I want more though, I noticed my L canceling messing up and my wavelands especially. I want to play what I think and I'm not there yet.

 

[LoOshKiN]

I think the hitboxes on the toward B are only out when a hurtbox enters that zone. That's why on Brinstar for example Ganon's side B hits the little weird things on the right and the pillars under the right and left platforms.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

I think the hitboxes on the toward B are only out when a hurtbox enters that zone. That's why on Brinstar for example Ganon's side B hits the little weird things on the right and the pillars under the right and left platforms.

that makes sense... still wish I could find the timing on it no matter how futile it would be to try and use it to dodge a projectile.
I've been matching my jumps so I can Fair Falco when he shot hops lasers, I love how well that works out.

 

[The Mighty Kiwi]

How can ganondorf get around Marth's sword? I was playing a friend's Marth and I couldn't maneuver around his sword, so I got owned.

 

[Lordydennek]

Well if marth is fairing, use your bair. if he's nairing, quickly full or dj jump a dair. if he's fsmashing, wait, then FAIR HIM IN THE FACE. or you can just space fairs. If marth ever gets above you UAIR ALL DAY. umm ya

 

[TommyDerMeister]

I was watching this Ganon vs. Peach match. At 1:55 RockCrock uses his sideB while Peach throws a turnip and hits her. It does look like she still might have been in the air right as she threw, but it is hard to tell. Is the sideB actually able to go under turnip to hit Peach? Is it a good idea to do this?

 

[Rubyiris]

I find it depressing that my boy Tommy got ignored.

 

[-ACE-]

I find it depressing that my boy Tommy got ignored.

LOL, he posted that question earlier TODAY, and it was still the most recent post on this thread.

Tommy, I took a look at that and it looks to me like the side-b went through the turnip. I'm not sure about specifics but Ganon's side-B is known for going through projectiles.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

Through the turnip? Does Ganon have super armor during that or is Ganon using some wizard magic to get through that? lol

Well, if he can go through the turnip, do you think it's safe to try and hit peach the sideB, or does the lag from throwing the turnip end in time for her to counter attack?