Divinokage
Smash Legend
If he DIs behind, no. Go for backair for sure.
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
Mike (Europhoria) told me that the Nair thing doesn't work on him because he just DIs away.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I just said that dummy lol.
And the thing is about "doesn't work on him" is false. You can't 100% predict how to DI perfectly all the time, you'd get surprised at times.
And the thing is about "doesn't work on him" is false. You can't 100% predict how to DI perfectly all the time, you'd get surprised at times.
LOL, people aren't paying attention. Lemme explain.
When Dthrowing Marth at low %:
DI Away- Nair will only hit once, Uair will hit, bair probably won't, Fair hits far, ganon can regrab.
DI Up- Nair will probably hit twice, Uair can be followed by Uair, Bair can hit, Fair might hit. Ganon can probably regrab.
DI Back- Nair will possibly hit twice, Uair can be followed by Uair, Bair will hit, Fair probably won't. Ganon can regrab.
If I got some of that wrong someone can correct me, but the point of the list is to say that there is no "perfect" DI, as Kage was saying.
When Dthrowing Marth at low %:
DI Away- Nair will only hit once, Uair will hit, bair probably won't, Fair hits far, ganon can regrab.
DI Up- Nair will probably hit twice, Uair can be followed by Uair, Bair can hit, Fair might hit. Ganon can probably regrab.
DI Back- Nair will possibly hit twice, Uair can be followed by Uair, Bair will hit, Fair probably won't. Ganon can regrab.
If I got some of that wrong someone can correct me, but the point of the list is to say that there is no "perfect" DI, as Kage was saying.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Well I guess it depends on what you mean by perfect. If marth DI's the dthrow away, you can regrab until ~15% (after the throw). After that you're only guaranteed a uair (which isn't that bad for Marth, but at least you get guaranteed damage), until marth gets to med% when fair starts to combo.
Magus420
Smash Master
If you want to use n-air you should try to find out if you're playing on v1.0 (if you can flame cancel with Bowser it's 1.0). The timing of the hitbox for the 2nd kick of his n-air is glitched and doesn't hit anywhere in front of him in the original version so it's even less likely to work (his leg isn't even kicking when the hitboxes attached to it activate).
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Magus could probably just make things up if he ever wanted to troll the entire Melee community and probably get us to believe it / get away with it.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
I think the game would actually reprogram itself to match whatever magus said
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Rofl, I got down B spiked by him while he was on the ledge and he landed on stage and I was like WTF lol.
studly
Smash Ace
thats hows its always worked. its his secret
DippnDots
Feral Youth
that sounds hot, hitbox goes through the stage? Your opponent would be able to tech that then right? I'm really interested in this now, i look for any reason at all to use down-b. *excited schoolgirl squeal*
TommyDerMeister
Smash Lord
Magus420
Smash Master
It was this:
It isn't very useful but it's ****in' hilarious xD
It isn't very useful but it's ****in' hilarious xD
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Ya, just like that =P First time I saw that, I was like O_O
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Same here. I loved how Magus's sig was always filled with random awesome gifs haha
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
....whaaaaaaaaaat!
i was thinking he was facing away from the stage and did it that way. but as a ledgehop?!?!? wow. i have a long way to go before i start trying stuff like this but daaaaang. thats pretty awesome.
i was thinking he was facing away from the stage and did it that way. but as a ledgehop?!?!? wow. i have a long way to go before i start trying stuff like this but daaaaang. thats pretty awesome.
Dr. Hyde
Smash Ace
wow that is a sexy edgeguard, I'm gonna have to try that
What is flame cancelling.
Magus, while you're still in here, I have a minor thing you might be able to quickly prove or disprove...
Can Falco laser>grab combo as fox techs away from a falco fthrow? If so, a properly timed laser could reset, stun for a tech in place, or stun for the tech away, and then falco could on instinct regrab if fox teched behind. Theory.
Magus, while you're still in here, I have a minor thing you might be able to quickly prove or disprove...
Can Falco laser>grab combo as fox techs away from a falco fthrow? If so, a properly timed laser could reset, stun for a tech in place, or stun for the tech away, and then falco could on instinct regrab if fox teched behind. Theory.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
i do that all the time with falco peef
X1-12
Smash Champion
Peef you can training mode combo ->laser D-tilt which is same frames as laser -> grab.. but training mode does allow 1 frame of not hitstun you probably saw me post the same thing on falco boards
moreover.. when you rockcrock with ganon (ledgetech walljump -> dair) do you double jump before the D-air or not?
moreover.. when you rockcrock with ganon (ledgetech walljump -> dair) do you double jump before the D-air or not?
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
after a walltech jump, you don't gain your second jump back, do you? all you have is your up-B...i think...
X1-12
Smash Champion
sorry i meant like if you drop down to interrupt falcon/ganons up+b then walkktechjump -> dair
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
oooh so like if you don't use your second jump before hand. idk...i guess it would depend on how low you are and how well you can aim without the jump. if you can survive while using it and it helps you aim it, go for it. if you can hit without using the jump, that would be optimal...
nvm, someone better than me answer this...
nvm, someone better than me answer this...
X1-12
Smash Champion
lol dw man... also did you know the most **** thing ever is if falco/fox is shield pressuring you on a platform from behind and you're facing in, you can shield-drop U-air for the kill if they're high%
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Everytime you're hit with Ganon or Falcon's up-B you get your 2nd jump back. If you walltech out of the up-B's knockback, you don't lose that 2nd jump. So you can walltech, then double jump and fair or dair, but usually just a walltech fair will hit, since it covers such a broad range. If you want to get fancy and dair, you may have to dj to get it in some situations, but you better jump soon and dair ASAP otherwise you aren't making it back. And don't forget he could meteor cancel and live depending on the character.
Lordydennek
Smash Ace
Well... I got to play a friend this weekend that I havent gotten to play in awhile. My Ganon can beat all that he's got cept stupid old peach. I never get to practice against a peach and i didnt know what to do. I tried to space everything well but it doesnt seem to work. I took him to every stage in the game and couldnt win anywhere. He is obviously better with her than I am with Ganon. Could someone give me a layout of what they would do in that matchup? Ive looked at the mu guide but I need some more adv tips.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
i'm not sure if i've asked this before but is there ANY way to tech fox's shine as ganondorf? i've gotten kind of good at teching, but once i'm off the edge against fox, i can't recover low like i do against falco because i can't tech the shine. i've learned to recover high a lot, but i still want to know if its really possible at all to tech that shine.
(i've seen falco tech it, so is it a weight/fastfaller thing?)
(i've seen falco tech it, so is it a weight/fastfaller thing?)
X1-12
Smash Champion
only characters who fall over from fox's shine can tech it.. and ganon isn't one of those..
LoOshKiN
Smash Journeyman
But if you smash DI the shine you can gain height off of it...just saying. So if you're getting insulted by 99 shine spikes offstage, don't give up, keep DI'ing.
I believe that whether or not a character gets knocked down by shine (thus being able to tech it) is based upon weight. Interesting fact: Marth doesn't get knocked down by shine, Roy does. So Marth is heavier than Roy O_o
I believe that whether or not a character gets knocked down by shine (thus being able to tech it) is based upon weight. Interesting fact: Marth doesn't get knocked down by shine, Roy does. So Marth is heavier than Roy O_o
MD.Dude
Smash Cadet
Okay. I am not the most tech savvy person in the world. How useful is ganon's wavedash. His wavelanding is really needed but for some reason i cant really wavedash with him..i can with fox..and marth..and others but ganons abit hard for me to do.
(The question) How useful is ganons wavedash? Does boostgrabbing (jcgrab) give more reach then a wavedash grab?
(The question) How useful is ganons wavedash? Does boostgrabbing (jcgrab) give more reach then a wavedash grab?
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Ganon has a great wavedash if you can consistently perform it at maximum length. It helps a lot in mindgames/baiting moves, and definitely makes Ganon faster.
Boostgrabbing is different than JC grabbing. I don't think Ganon has a boost grab (or at least a useful one), I usually JC grab, but sometimes you have to dash grab for certain chaingrabs to work. Wavedash grab is pretty situational, usually you need to get a read to land it. Waveland to grab is REALLY good when your opponent is expecting you to aerial his shield.
Boostgrabbing is different than JC grabbing. I don't think Ganon has a boost grab (or at least a useful one), I usually JC grab, but sometimes you have to dash grab for certain chaingrabs to work. Wavedash grab is pretty situational, usually you need to get a read to land it. Waveland to grab is REALLY good when your opponent is expecting you to aerial his shield.
Ballistics
Smash Champion
hey sorry off topic but did someone say they can forgive the youtube 10 minute length?
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
oh, thing i have been wondering,
is the initial dash sequence any faster than ganons run? cause if so, then it would be faster to dash-wavedash-dash-wavedash and so on and so forth to get across the stage. if thats faster than running, then...well i need to do that more lol.
(sometimes i try, but i miss the wavedash on occasion, so i end up fulljumping. its so frustrating...)
is the initial dash sequence any faster than ganons run? cause if so, then it would be faster to dash-wavedash-dash-wavedash and so on and so forth to get across the stage. if thats faster than running, then...well i need to do that more lol.
(sometimes i try, but i miss the wavedash on occasion, so i end up fulljumping. its so frustrating...)
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I think that if do maximum length wavedashes and don't waste any time dashing out of them, that it's a tad faster. I'm really not sure though. I just like to switch directions quickly and then wd into a dash as you can cover a lot of ground in little time.
DippnDots
Feral Youth
i think the reason you see people doing the dash-wavedash-dash is one of two things, when you get to the ledge running, you need to turn around, this prevents that as you can wavedash forward do a quick little dash forward, then turn around with another dash, and wavedash back to grab the ledge. That was a mouthful of dash :O
The second reason is when the opponent is on stage and you're a feasible distance away, you have more mobility AFTER you close that distance, to a point where you and your opponent can engage one another. Meaning, if you're both on opposite ends of the stage, and you just run towards them, you have limited options, to come to a complete stop you have to crouch, which isn't too dangerous but it seems at this point in the game anything can be abused if your opponent calls it, where if you start to close the distance with a wavedash, you cover some of the space at maximum efficiency(?), and when getting closer to an engaging distance you'll be dash dancing.
The reason you don't want to end the closing of the distance in a wavedash is because you commit yourself completely to that wavedash, and just wavedashing into somebody will be horribly horribly punished.
Hope all that mumbo jumbo makes sense, it's hard to put thoughts into coherent words
PS. It got shunned a while ago but matt r suggested using buffered rolls to cover the distance of the stage. While this looks stupid and sounds scrubby, it is in fact rather fast, has your back automatically facing the edge, and requires 0 technical skill.
second edit: the dash-wavedash-dash whatever also looks fluid and pretty
The second reason is when the opponent is on stage and you're a feasible distance away, you have more mobility AFTER you close that distance, to a point where you and your opponent can engage one another. Meaning, if you're both on opposite ends of the stage, and you just run towards them, you have limited options, to come to a complete stop you have to crouch, which isn't too dangerous but it seems at this point in the game anything can be abused if your opponent calls it, where if you start to close the distance with a wavedash, you cover some of the space at maximum efficiency(?), and when getting closer to an engaging distance you'll be dash dancing.
The reason you don't want to end the closing of the distance in a wavedash is because you commit yourself completely to that wavedash, and just wavedashing into somebody will be horribly horribly punished.
Hope all that mumbo jumbo makes sense, it's hard to put thoughts into coherent words
PS. It got shunned a while ago but matt r suggested using buffered rolls to cover the distance of the stage. While this looks stupid and sounds scrubby, it is in fact rather fast, has your back automatically facing the edge, and requires 0 technical skill.
second edit: the dash-wavedash-dash whatever also looks fluid and pretty
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
To me, buffering rolls to cover the length of the stage is good, but not great.
I like to run, then do a full length wd forward and then pivot. This way is faster (I'm pretty sure), but more importantly, you can put yourself exactly where you want to be in any situation. If you're planning on using the tipman spike, for example, you don't want to be on the very end of the ledge where the roll would eventually put you anyway, you'd have to take a half step forward or so, whereas run > wd > pivot puts you there instantly. It's also good tech skill practice :>
I like to run, then do a full length wd forward and then pivot. This way is faster (I'm pretty sure), but more importantly, you can put yourself exactly where you want to be in any situation. If you're planning on using the tipman spike, for example, you don't want to be on the very end of the ledge where the roll would eventually put you anyway, you'd have to take a half step forward or so, whereas run > wd > pivot puts you there instantly. It's also good tech skill practice :>
DippnDots
Feral Youth
yea i do that too cause it makes me feel boss, throw in a platform waveland if its stadium too lol, but if you're not rushing for an edgeguard the rolls are safe for someone who doesnt feel comfortable in their tech skill, or if you're lazy
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Bizzarro Flame
Smash Lord
@kage: good set with PKM. I love how PKM has a hard time getting on the stage while he's holding on the ledge.
btw, I have a question about side-b...
do you use it randomly to throw off your opponent's spacing, or is there a specific situation you should use it?
btw, I have a question about side-b...
do you use it randomly to throw off your opponent's spacing, or is there a specific situation you should use it?