Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Gliffie]

At least your Ganon is better than mine, Robo

Imma newb up the thread a bit. When, say Fox, use rapid jab on me, what's the best way to punish it? Also, does playing P:M **** up my Melee Ganon? Like with the timing on l-canceling and wavedashing

 

[Dorsey]

raph:

nah you can do any aerial with ganon within the drop zone. I mean even nair if you want to, i'd probably be reverse nair(off a WL) drop zoning those kids you were playing into the stage because it's not like they're going to tech it, lol(as a joke). People who aren't used to being edgeguarded by ganon, like your samus friend, will be particularly vulnerable to being caught off guard in that zone. Drop zone dair *****, if someone is coming back on yoshi's and they're at the very bottom of the screen thinking they are safe, I will still FF drop zone dair them and will get back. I use bair the least in the drop zone...but just by a little when I think about it.

Anyway, I just got back from the bar and I'm kinda drunk here. It's just important to abuse all the flaws in your opponent's get back as possible, so he can learn how to do it properly, and you can learn how to edgeguard the proper get back appropriately..(that is oversimplified... oh well, i'm done typing)

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I tried Dropzone Uairing today. It was pretty awesome. The other dropzones work too, I must have just been waiting too long before. I'm going to be using this a lot more from now on.

My Ganon was a lot better today, but I'm still not happy with how I'm playing. I'm doing all these stupid predictable things, and I know I need to stop doing them, but I keep doing them anyway. It's annoying.

Even if you are drunk, you're giving good advice. I just got back from trying to eat 3 gallons of Ice Cream (I'm pretty much half-asleep at the moment), so while I've never been drunk, I'm sure it's a similar feeling.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

At least your Ganon is better than mine, Robo

Imma newb up the thread a bit. When, say Fox, use rapid jab on me, what's the best way to punish it? Also, does playing P:M **** up my Melee Ganon? Like with the timing on l-canceling and wavedashing

Crouch cancel it and grab. I watched linguini do it so whenever I predict a jab (whenever I'm slightly out of range for a shine), I crouch and wait for the jab (jump cancelling a grab while you're crouching is a good idea). Works like a charm.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Wait until you're in the air and waveland out of it. It's not as good, but it looks awesome.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah SDIing up and wavelanding out of situations is actually a really interesting way to escape some setups. i can't explain many moments where it happens, but mostly jab -> usmash situations are avoided with wavelands like that.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Interesting. I haven't been able to waveland out of anything other than a rapid jab (yet), but I could see it being extremely useful in some situations.

EDIT: Also, I don't think I've remembered how to play smart yet. I'm just running up to people and taking advantage of my speed (L-cancelling and wavedashing) and Ganon's range. It worked against the scrubs and my high school, but I actually need to play smart (e.g. Spacing, not just running forward and attacking, etc) against him. It's taking me a while to get back into the habit of doing that, for some reason.

Also, my Uair shouldn't be trading with Link's Nair, right? I'm fairly certain I'm screwing up the spacing on that, but just thought I'd double check.

Also, that Samus player definitely doesn't know much about Ganon, despite considering Ganon one of his best characters (The recording shows one Ganon ditto, during which I get a two-stock lead, become overconfident and fail at the rest of the game. Usually our dittos are like that, except without the overconfident part, and me winning easily). He believes BF and YS are absolutely terrible stages for Ganon, while FD is amazing (especially against Samus). He also believes that the movement of platforms on FoD has absolutely no influence on Ganon or the game in general. Obviously, I disagree with pretty much all of this.

 

[Geenareeno]

Yeah that's all wrong. FD is Ganon's worst stage against Samus, for obvious reasons. As for Link's Nair, it will probably trade 80% percent of the time. I would think you would need to do it early and hit with the tip of his toes to not allow your hurtbox to come in contact with his hitbox.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

**** link

 

[Gliffie]

Crouch cancel it and grab. I watched linguini do it so whenever I predict a jab (whenever I'm slightly out of range for a shine), I crouch and wait for the jab (jump cancelling a grab while you're crouching is a good idea). Works like a charm.

yeah SDIing up and wavelanding out of situations is actually a really interesting way to escape some setups. i can't explain many moments where it happens, but mostly jab -> usmash situations are avoided with wavelands like that.

Thanks. I'll try it out as soon as possible. Never thought of doing any of that

 

[G. Vice]

**** link

Link is an easy matchup for Ganon. It's one of the few in his favor. I feel the same way about Samus actually, so those are two matchups I feel pretty good in. Then again, I learned this game playing against a Samus main and a Link main.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I feel like the Link matchup is in Ganon's favor, especially if he CGs.

Samus is one I'd be hesitant about, simply because of having to deal with missiles, and edgeguarding her recovery. I don't think it'd be in Samus' matchup, though.

 

[Renth]

I smell a conspiracy.

I have recorded ganon ditto sets with ACE and Spider_Sense.

None of those videos ever appeared online.

hmmm

 

[Dorsey]

yeah I remember him telling me that y'all had a bunch of fun ganon dittos that were recorded then never put up. pretty lame.

i don't think there's a single youtube vid of me playing smash.

****

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Link is an easy matchup for Ganon. It's one of the few in his favor. I feel the same way about Samus actually, so those are two matchups I feel pretty good in. Then again, I learned this game playing against a Samus main and a Link main.

I feel like whoever you learn the game against really influences your style. I learned against (not kidding) 5 falcons. Nothing else. Lol I think it's the coolest matchup.

Kage I'm dissapointed you missed my friendly match with darkrain. That was the best I've ever played for sure. A lot of reads, some low level baits, gimps (with dropzone uair, raph). Awesome stuff. Man, it's fun to actually have some of that stuff under your belt for the first time

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I learned by playing against scrubs. I still think that matchup is 100-0 in Ganon's favor.

 

[Ripple]

I learned against a mario, Pika and a ICS/puff.

probably why I still play DK :/

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I learned against a Ganondorf, a Ganondorf, and uhhhhhhh a Ganondorf.

hi.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i still haven't learned how to play this game.

but i think a falco is going to teach me.

 

[Divinokage]

Link is an easy matchup for Ganon. It's one of the few in his favor. I feel the same way about Samus actually, so those are two matchups I feel pretty good in. Then again, I learned this game playing against a Samus main and a Link main.

Really? I'd say both of them are kinda even. YL however gets pwned pretty bad.

The problem with Link is that, no one freaking plays him at all. Though I did get another shot at Mango's Link once I think, it was a tough battle.

 

[LoOshKiN]

Links ARE rare. I've played with 1 scrub link and it was still difficult because I got camped hxc.
And I've played Cosmos link and lost, and Legion's link and barely won.
I'd say the matchup, in my limited but meaningful experiences, is approx. even.

 

[Dorsey]

ganon link 55/45
ganon samus 50/50

imo

although i'm open-minded to zane's position on it, since he's got the samus experience through ihsb.

so, 52/48 ganon:samus? haha

 

[G. Vice]

Really? I'd say both of them are kinda even. YL however gets pwned pretty bad.

The problem with Link is that, no one freaking plays him at all. Though I did get another shot at Mango's Link once I think, it was a tough battle.

You have to remember though, that's Mango. A player that's above your skill level significantly enough will be able to beat you or give you a run with a character that they don't necessarily play well.

ganon link 55/45
ganon samus 50/50

imo

although i'm open-minded to zane's position on it, since he's got the samus experience through ihsb.

so, 52/48 ganon:samus? haha

Let me clarify. Link is not a blowoff completely. He can combo Ganon well, and on levels like FD you can get camped pretty hard. However, since it's an even or slight advantage for Ganon, it feels crazy good when you're used to playing matchups that are uphill battles...i.e: Fox, Falco, Sheik. Ganon's favor, imo around 58/42 to be as precise as possible. Jesse is close enough with his 55/45 I feel like.

Samus/Ganon? I think the fact that Ganon can pretty much treat Samus like she doesn't have a grab(this goes for Link as well actually off of shield grabs), that he can pressure the mess out of her. Trading always goes in Ganon's favor. you can jab, ftilt, fair, bair, or just shield her missiles(depending on how the samus is acting of course). The only difficult thing about the matchup in my opinion, is that Samus can give Ganon a little trouble edgeguarding. Especially if the Ganon(like myself) tends to get over aggressive and go out there, then she can reverse the recovery position. The other thing is her missiles can make Ganon's recovery hard. However, that's every matchup since Ganon has such a limited recovery. One thing I have learned that greatly frustrates all Samus(and actually peaches as well) is a ganon that can ledge tech. Depending on percentage, it can completely reverse who's on the ropes for that stock. IMO samus/ganon is like 60/40 Ganon. But I can understand someone that might see it being a little closer.

I've played IHSB and DoH a good bit here and there, and because I have somewhat of a decent ledge tech game, I have audibly heard their disapproval after a ledge tech up b, or a ledge tech Bair from me. Being able to live even for a little longer, when the opponent has pretty much chalked up a stock can be a huge mental blow, and lead to much good for the ganon player. It is an invaluable tool in general, but especially in that matchup.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Play plup. That is all.

 

[Divinokage]

Play plup. That is all.

I have to MM him again to have a definite claim about that matchup because I feel like he plays Ganon/Samus the best. I'd like to play him like 20-30 matches.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

do it. he has the matchup down to perfection.

 

[Divinokage]

do it. he has the matchup down to perfection.

If he was perfect, he would've beaten me 3-0 but that was not the case unlike Hbox, the games were pretty close overall last time. But Apex 2012 is a long time ago, I made tons of changes in myself and in my play as you saw at FC. That complete confidence ftw, no more doubts are allowed.

 

[G. Vice]

Play plup. That is all.

I know he's good, but I'm not scared of him at all. After playing as competent a Samus as Jack, for more than just 1 or 2 matches, I really don't get scared of Samus.

He might beat me, but I guarantee it'd be close. Besides, whether he wins or not has nothing to do with the fact that Ganon has an advantage in that matchup. He's just good.

 

[Divinokage]

I know he's good, but I'm not scared of him at all. After playing as competent a Samus as Jack, for more than just 1 or 2 matches, I really don't get scared of Samus.

He might beat me, but I guarantee it'd be close. Besides, whether he wins or not has nothing to do with the fact that Ganon has an advantage in that matchup. He's just good.

Ya but Plup is way better than Jack..

FL is the Ganon slaying region as well.. and also MW skill level < FL skill level.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

jack also plays the matchup completely different.

like polar opposite.

 

[Divinokage]

On a fun note, I finally beat MW's champion. But then the secret boss came... ****ing ****. lol.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i think kels officially hates ganondorf now.

 

[Divinokage]

I certainly hope so. **** Fox McCloud.. though I really polished this matchup very well overall.. Falco is still a problem though. The Falco matchup for me to play it properly is I have to be high, i can't play it any other way lol. And also, it's always that matchup where I get caught playing worst than I normally do. I don't really understand why but I'll think about it.

It's probably has something to do with Falco's control ability or maybe I play the matchup too aggressively.. mmm..

 

[-ACE-]

I didn't read all that but I got $20 on Plup whooping kage's candy ***

 

[Divinokage]

I dont have a candy ***, I have the best ***.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'll take that bet Ace

 

[Geenareeno]

On a fun note, I finally beat MW's champion. But then the secret boss came... ****ing ****. lol.

Who was this? And was You vs. Kels recorded?

 

[-ACE-]

Loooool I was so wasted last night, didn't mean to insult your *** kage lmao

sveet, ok

 

[Divinokage]

Who was this? And was You vs. Kels recorded?

Kels is the MW champion and yes it was recorded for sure. Everything in the top 8 was recorded. The secret boss is Darkrain, of course!

 

[G. Vice]

I've heard several Ganon players that hate fighting Jack, but then again that could be a personal thing.

I'd really like to play against Plup. I know he's good, I've seen him, but I still think it'd be fun.