Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Divinokage]

You can just DI away the fair and you can't Ken combo. If you DI away most of Marth's attack, he can't combo Ganon well with aerials. Knowing that also I try to watch what the Marth is looking for on the ground. If he's DDing then I can jump around and waveland or just wavedash. From there it just takes a bit of prediction to punish Marth effectively.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah dog, any fair combo is nowhere guaranteed essentially

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

But my sword went through you. You were dead.

Also, no, the non-tip hitbox sends very horizontal, so if you DI away I react and edgeguard. If you do anything but away DI I can spike.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoob08ssmvs#t=10m40s the last fair in this combo is an example of that hitbox

 

[-ACE-]

PP didn't DI that at all, it didnt look like. And I'm fully aware that the non-tipped fair has significantly less kb and DI potential. I'll also add that kage often SDI's those fairs for a tad extra distance (correct me if I'm wrong kage). Bottom line, ken combo is hardly ever given. If you somehow had Ganon offstage at VERY low percent, somehow, I could see non-tipped fair to dair being guaranteed but I don't know.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya, I usually smash my joystick basically every time I know I'm going to get hit. I do it down and away if I want to retaliate right away or if I can't do that then I just smash away perhaps upwards sometimes if my % is high. Though the down and away DI is also to keep grounded and resetting my position so that I can continue to zone my opponent. I absolutely have to do that, being point blank is terrible with Ganon.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

SDI away would only make it worse... ANYWAYS

 

[-ACE-]

SDI away would only make it worse... ANYWAYS

How is SDI + ASDI away weaker than ASDI away?

edit: if you mean when he's far offstage, then I know what you mean. No point in SDI farther and making recovery impossible (handing marth an easy edgeguard).

 

[Divinokage]

No it won't, it'll help to bring me back to the stage.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

If you do anything NOT outwards, you get hit by dair. If you DI outwards you get edgeguarded. If you SDI outwards you get edgeguarded worse.

 

[Divinokage]

Not necessarily. You can still air control and possibly DJ at worst to avoid getting hit, it's not like Marth can edgeguard Ganon 100% of the time. I meant like if you have to DI away, you DI towards the edge.. a lot of times I'm able to grab the edge before Marth can edgeguard.

 

[-ACE-]

If you do anything NOT outwards, you get hit by dair. If you DI outwards you get edgeguarded. If you SDI outwards you get edgeguarded worse.

Truth, once Ganon is offstage he's dead. Same for marth against someone who knows what he's doing though ; )

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

False about edgeguarding marth.

 

[-ACE-]

False about edgeguarding marth.

Who does this guy think he is? Ganon has an answer for all marth recovery shenanigans.

 

[Divinokage]

Indeed, its pretty easy to edgeguard marth. Though for most Ganons it seems like a hated matchup for them, I dont understand. lol.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Reverse uair may be one of the best tools for edgeguarding marth, however marth is one of the hardest characters to edgeguard, period.

 

[Divinokage]

Reverse uair may be one of the best tools for edgeguarding marth, however marth is one of the hardest characters to edgeguard, period.

What? His recovery sucks.

 

[-ACE-]

Marth's best bet is dj sweetspotting the edge, and we've got that dair (easier to land than tipman spike in this particular situation, and meteor cancels are missed much more often when you get meteor'd out of a dj).

Literally every other option is cake. Taking candy from a baby.

 

[-ACE-]

That candy reference made me think of something.

Lol.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

What? His recovery sucks.

Ganon has it easy cause he has meaty attack, everyone else can be out stalled and sweetspotted against. Even that works quite a bit vs ganon. Grabbing the edge isn't a solution.

 

[G. Vice]

I guess it depends on how good the marth is vs Ganon. If you're playing a good marth without a lot of Ganon exposure, I think the Ganon has the advantage since he's forced to use similar spaces tricks in matchups harder than Marth.

Also, Kage I'm glad to know that you are gonna be training on melee for Rom5! I hope to see great things from you.

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon has it easy cause he has meaty attack, everyone else can be out stalled and sweetspotted against. Even that works quite a bit vs ganon. Grabbing the edge isn't a solution.

When marth is recovering low, grabbing the edge IS the solution. Grab ledge, ledgedrop uair, invincible uair in your marth's linear *** recovery. Done deal.

Check it
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=266671

Ganon mains knock players senseless after rounds of tokes
then slow down and let the marth mains count our spokes

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

define "recovering low"

Marth's recovery generally works so that he DI's to the top left corner, or up as much as possible. As he is coming towards he edge he can use a multitude of tricks to change timings while simultaneously sweetspotting with either his jump or his upb.

Sure if marth has committed to only using his upb and not threatening any attacks at the edge, yes his recovery is limited. But that is the player's choice and not something that can be forced very easily.

 

[-ACE-]

It seems like you are imagining some kind of perfect scenario where marth has his jump and is not that far offstage and coming from above, it seems... that's hardly edgeguarding. At that point you are above Ganon and will eat a uair regardless.

When marth is actually offstage, and has his jump, he has the ability to DJ fair (sometimes dj nair is better). This is beyond predictable. Seriously, no matter how you look at it, marths recover is SUPER linear. Like I said, he is safest when he can DJ sweetspot the ledge, and Ganon covers that pretty well.

edit: recovering low = must up-B to grab the ledge. The invincible ledgedrop uair is 100% guaranteed and easy as hell. if you don't have the time to grab the ledge, lightshield edgehog and cover options from there. Cake.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I dont really feel like arguing with you. There are things marth can do to make his recovery very safe and unpredictable. If you would like to try to edgeguard me, travel to a tournament I am at and I can show you.

 

[-ACE-]

I've played PP's marth, LozR's, fullmetal's, ether's and lots of other notable marths. I don't need to play the legendary sveet to know edguarding marth is cake lol.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Ok then, have a nice day

 

[Juggleguy]

Kage, any thoughts on your set vs Darkrain?

 

[Geenareeno]

When marth is recovering low, grabbing the edge IS the solution. Grab ledge, ledgedrop uair, invincible uair in your marth's linear *** recovery. Done deal.

Check it
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=266671

Ganon mains knock players senseless after rounds of tokes
then slow down and let the marth mains count our spokes

Holy ****.... only after seeing that you are the OP of that thread do I realize who you are. You were gone for so long and then you changed your avatar... Welcome back.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol, yeah I took a little break. I still smash from time to time but don't practice hard any more. Slowly getting back into it... might have a small fest at my place soon.

 

[Divinokage]

Kage, any thoughts on your set vs Darkrain?

Hmm I'd have to rewatch it but he held it down pretty well overall, it's very hard to gain momentum vs him. It almost feels like fighting myself but he's Falcon so he has the advantage lol. I definitely got outplayed that set and also that was my final pool match and I feel like I ran out of steam when I compare that set vs my other set. (I played WAY too many sets where it was brought down to game 5 so at some point my focus is just harder to manage because of the pressure) He's really hard to deal with, I was thinking going Marth vs him because I feel like I could've exploited his defense a lot better or find holes in his play easier. I didn't have the speed to deal with him correctly.

But I stayed Ganon because I mean it's Ganon/Falcon, best matchup. lol.

 

[Wake]

Pika > Ganon.

 

[Divinokage]

Pika > Ganon > Falcon > Doc > ICs. lol.

 

[Wake]

haha Kage gets it.

 

[Divinokage]

Well I beat him in brackets and in P:M but not in the finals pools. =(

 

[spider_sense]

Lol, yeah I took a little break. I still smash from time to time but don't practice hard any more. Slowly getting back into it... might have a small fest at my place soon.

Can I come? :D

 

[xKobayashi]

dear kage,

how can you wavedash/land so far with gannon?

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Who the **** is "gannon"

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Lol ian.

Just try to angle things as horizontal as you can when u hit l/r and the rest will take care of itself.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

dear kage,

how can you wavedash/land so far with gannon?

This is a question better directed at spider sense, g vice, or renth.

Kage admitted to me that my tech skill was better than his lmao.

But anyway, you literally just hold the joystick 100% left or right and push L/R lol. The timing is a little stricter tho to do a perfect (what this is called) waveland rather than angling the joystick down.

EDIT: what Chris said.

Speaking of Chris: Nice to meet and play you dude

 

[Bl@ckChris]

There are still things kage is doing better than any of us. His platform drop throughs really are impressive.

Edit: and the pleasure was mine good sir. Hopefully me, pp, and the crew will head back up to the big house 2. Hope you can make it also.