Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Bizzarro Flame]

i miss kage's old avatar =/

 

[-ACE-]

D20 is the only yl that has ever had the upper hand on me. He probably won 2/3 of our matches at pound. It was one of those days where you know what to do but your fingers aren't cooperating lol his projectiles were a *****

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I'm having trouble with falco.

must record matches.

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

If he shoots lasers, you're ****ed.

 

[spider_sense]

If he shoots lasers, you're ****ed.

Pro advice ^

 

[Walt]

The YL experience I have is Kizzo and I think I was beating him pretty soundly last time we played. I only remember that I won every ganon-YL we did and I got a stomp(spiked into cloud)>stomp the wake up>DJ down-B spike. it was sick.

 

[Superspright]

I'm getting really good at powershielding attacks, but I keep wondering the usefulness. It does lead to a lot of grabs, dairs, and other nonsense, but sometimes I wonder how good it really is. Can it be punished very well? Can someone hit my PS then punish me for PSing?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

no, but what they can do is alter their timing by just a smidge so when you think you're going to powershield, you really don't. like if you start powershielding a lot of obvious falco lasers, then that falco might start to do what zhu does and use that little shield right before he shoots the laser. a lot of times the guys i play against as falco will do a very quick run away, something of a stutter step, before approaching with a dair. if they had run in and dair'd, i'd have powershield jabbed, but with the stutter step, i often do the input and then they get the free dair.

basically, if you actually get the powershield, it's tough to punish unless they cross over and you do something laggy in front of you. but what they can do is alter their timing to bait your shield up and punish the fact that you now have your shield up.

also, they can grab you.

 

[Superspright]

I react to powershields. I don't really predict them. If they mix up their timing I don't think it matters much. At least on lasers. They are still just lasers. Not like they are going to move slower or faster. If I am going to get them, I want to get them for a fixed reason. Like, if a Falcon is standing near me and sh knees I want to PS it. I can always punish with grab. Or PS jab, or even up-b seems to be good at punishing a lot of stuff--even when I don't have time to really punish it it wins because it's a grab. But I mainly find it satisfying to PS anyone who challenges me with firefox to dair. Always works. But it seems dumb to firefox a Ganon anyway.

Also it ***** peach's fair, and falco's dair.

But to add my one friend does mess with his timing and whatnot now to throw me off, but I eventually just punish that stuff until he goes back to attacking instead of empty hopping and grabs. Then it's PS grab time again, or PS whatever basically. It seems pretty broken if done right. A lot of people get PS' and don't do much about em. I'm trying to always maximize what I can do with it, and I can honestly say I react to almost all of my powershields now with some option. I still suck though. So it's a work in progress.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

the move after the ps may be a reaction. But the fact is, if you rely on any opponents timing to get a powershield, any 3 frame difference in their approach will get you hit. It doesn't matter much on lasers, but if you're trying to powershield a falco dair approach or a fox nair approach, beware of any stutter steps or late aerial stuff.

 

[Superspright]

I realize that the ps is only good when I get the read. But Armada does PS dsmash, and other shenanigans. Why don't we? Our UP-B is ridiculous from a powershield. It's like level 9 Ganon, but in your hands. I've been working on it, but it's hard to get the up-b to come out fast and drop the PS and pivot it if they overshoot you (ala falcon). Just doing it all at once on reaction isn't something I've really done too much yet.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i'd say that ps to grab is better than a ps to up b. the up B has good range, and can punish things that previously couldn't be punished with a powershield, such as marths fair. but against some things, you'd def rather grab.

i have been using up b oos more recently. it's a funny way to reset a situation and give them 15+ percent.

since up B is an up move, i don't think you directly have to worry about dropping the ps. as long as you input the up B, you could hold the shield trigger the whole time and it'd come out, i think. i've done it before to cover crossover options, and it's pretty funny because the frame you can flip on is feasible to react with. so you can make sure you up b, and if you see them cross over, you can hold the other direction and grab them before the real hitbox comes out.

i'd say it's most useful vs marths who cross over with a nair. or maybe even falcos who like to get on the backs of shields with a crossover bair and just kinda lurk there for you to do something. reverse up b oos can reset that situation to be more advantageous than normal. (retreating bair oos ain't bad either)

it's tough to do against falcons cause usually when they crossover with a nair, they very well could be out of range even of the up b oos. they just like to cross over and dash dance lol. but if they like to crossover and hang around, maybe trying to get a quick grab, then yeah, reverse up b oos could be the truth. (or reverse up b oops *lol out of powershield...oops...)

yeah stuff. but basically you just have to do something that's either spaced enough to where they doubt they'd get hit (up b) or fast enough where they can't do anything about it (jab/maybe grab)

 

[-ACE-]

I AM A BOSS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIxrhE0606Y

Ice cold rollin on 27's and "high" as fukc. Only a Ganon main.

 

[Deleted member]

i miss kage's old avatar =/

hunter x hunter is a pretty legit anime

kage sux

linguinis the best ganon

ace is the homey

falcon beats ganon 65-35

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

someone say hunter x hunter? great anime series, im watching it again right now

 

[-ACE-]

KAGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDFcWawaosY#t=80m45s

1:26:25

PUNCH THAT BIRD WTF. You had a free kill and just gave him a free ledge! I think your edgeguarding/recovery skills, although strong, could be your weakest points. Touch that **** up and **** at apex dood.

 

[Superspright]

You gotta give him serious props for such a good use of UP-B though. He got a kill with it. That's what I'm talking about. It cuts through so much crap that UP-B may be one of our surprise KO's.

 

[Divinokage]

hunter x hunter is a pretty legit anime

kage sux

linguinis the best ganon

ace is the homey

falcon beats ganon 65-35

someone say hunter x hunter? great anime series, im watching it again right now

Hunter x Hunter is pretty sick, I think it's in my top 5 best animes.

KAGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDFcWawaosY#t=80m45s

1:26:25

PUNCH THAT BIRD WTF. You had a free kill and just gave him a free ledge! I think your edgeguarding/recovery skills, although strong, could be your weakest points. Touch that **** up and **** at apex dood.

I'm never sure when to go off-stage. =/

 

[Bl@ckChris]

hmm...crossed a couple of tourney hurdles, beating people i had been losing to in tourney for...as long as i've been playing. but it still wasn't enough.

playing pp was interesting again. should've played him more, but he did a lot of brawl stuff at this tourney, so it couldn't be helped.

ganon can fight falco. playing pp this time actually helped me see that more than discount it.

 

[Palpi]

The second BAM jumps there you go after and get him, don't use your 2nd jump though, in case he air dodges back on stage, you can do the same. If he jumps up and falls to recover lower, i think falling uair is underused in this situation.

 

[Divinokage]

The second BAM jumps there you go after and get him, don't use your 2nd jump though, in case he air dodges back on stage, you can do the same. If he jumps up and falls to recover lower, i think falling uair is underused in this situation.

Well its kinda 50-50, if he forward-B instead of Up-B then im the one that will be in trouble... and falling uair was out of range i think. If I miss something like that then im the one in more trouble.. lol.

 

[-ACE-]

I'm never sure when to go off-stage. =/

Just be ready for that up-B. lots of spacies up-B too close to the stage and rarely get punished for it. Keep a safe distance if need be, but try to be close enough so that you can run and fair him before the up-B takes flight.

Also, I wanna see more reverse uair edgeguarding out of you! How many times have you spaced a SHFFL'd bair at the ledge when fox/falco is recovering, only to give them a free ledge? If they are up-B'ing above the stage and have the option to aim down to the ledge for a sweetspot (at high level play, looking at the metagame as a whole), chances are they're going to take it (I'm sure you've read your opponents doing this hundreds of times). reverse uair would hit them below stage and if spaced right you won't trade. after it hits you can dropzone dair immediately if they are within that range to secure the ko... well, fox could meteor cancel, but if you have more stocks just dj dair him again like a BOSS. if not, edgeguard onstage (new KO opportunity! yay!).

lol i'm wrecked.

 

[Divinokage]

Haha ya thx.. I've been told that a lot of times. Tsk.. why can't I put it in action! I'm going to guess tournament pressure makes me do stupid things but my main thing is trying to use what I trained for in tournament but a lot of times it doesn't happen. It's so hard. lol.

Like in friendlies I would go off-stage even though it's not safe, I'll keep trying until I get right basically. But I mean still sometimes it's hard to react to.

 

[Palpi]

Edgeguarding is a must mr. kage!

 

[Mr Postman]

When, if ever, do I Nair?

 

[Palpi]

Kage can probably answer that better than most people

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

When, if ever, do I Nair?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XWKCVk_LMY&feature=related#t=3m35s

whenever you think they're going to DI towards you while they are in the air

 

[Geenareeno]

Holy **** you ***** him. Is that guy maybe a little bad? Or are you just too good. Nair gives a decent hitbox below and behind you and it shows up faster than u air and at a different time for the second one.

 

[Mr Postman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XWKCVk_LMY&feature=related#t=3m35s

whenever you think they're going to DI towards you while they are in the air

That's pretty cool man, haha

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Holy **** you ***** him. Is that guy maybe a little bad? Or are you just too good. Nair gives a decent hitbox below and behind you and it shows up faster than u air and at a different time for the second one.

he's definitely good, but a bit rusty that tournament to be honest.

i always thought that the u-air hit-box appears earlier than the n-air hitbox though.

also, i like how you mentioned the n-air having a decent hitbox behind ganon. i'm going to experiment reverse n-air now brb

 

[Linguini]

Yep, reverse nair does indeed work in some situations it's pretty lolzy. I've made it work just out of instinct, sometimes leading into a bair against floaties.

Nair sadly isn't too great overall, although I probably use it once every couple matches. Cept when floaties keep di'ng the dthrow wrong at low percents, then you can get that free nair combo. It's very situational other than that.

 

[-ACE-]

Holy **** you ***** him. Is that guy maybe a little bad? Or are you just too good. Nair gives a decent hitbox below and behind you and it shows up faster than u air and at a different time for the second one.

as far as initial hitbox, uair's comes out the earliest.

 

[Geenareeno]

as far as initial hitbox, uair's comes out the earliest.

Yeah it does but i'm saying for below and behind you. It's so small and useless it's not even worth mentioning really.

What I meant is that nair hits on 7 and up hits in the same spot on 13 or 14. Also up b OoS comes out in 15 frames. Uses? I supposed grab is faster and would lead to similar knockback if you can get the follow up.

 

[Superspright]

Frames 6 and 7 of the uair are hitting in the same place, and the nair is inferior to it for the most part. The only use that I can see for nair is some combo follow ups, edge-canceling the first hit of nair into fair or something...FH nair on platforms can be AC'd into other stuff. Also, the last hit of nair can kill at bair percents. Just hit with the assbone. It has a nice send IMO.

Uair is just so much better, and you can actually crossover with it and it AC's from a SH. Nair sucks. I've tried to make it work in so many situations. Just use it for projectiles like turnips if you want.

 

[Divinokage]

Nair is for DI mindgames mainly.

 

[Palpi]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=311226

if anyone is interested...DO THIS ITS FUN AS ****!

 

[kupo15]

you can scoop chars up off the floor with uair if done right. all parts off uair are great. I like using it more than fair most of the time

 

[spider_sense]

you can scoop chars up off the floor with uair if done right. all parts off uair are great. I like using it more than fair most of the time

Sometimes uair is the better approach rather than using fair, it's especially good for hitting Falco's approaching lasers.

 

[kupo15]

Its great when spacies jump into it

 

[-ACE-]

kage i hear you talk about using nair as a DI mindgame a lot? what do you mean?

Assuming you just dthrow'd marth and you go to nair him: If they DI away they get hit once by the nair and you can't follow up (in which case uair adds more damage and is faster/safer). If they DI in, the nair will possibly get both hits in, which is good (but if they DI a uair in, you can uair again or sometimes fair).