.:How to Murder Stuff:. A Guide to the 'Dorf'

[Swoops]

Whuh? When is that ever hard? Gerudo. Wait for control frames. Enter an ftilt.

???

I'm with fromundaman. Putting the control stick to neutral is easy. If it's what the game actually wants to see, that's easier than whatever is actually going on in, say, the DACUS.

Well, it's really only guaranteed if you can do f-tilt on frame 1 that control is available. If you can then yea it wouldn't be that hard. It's also hard for many people because f-tilt is very sensitive to buffering. If you are usually off by a fraction of a second you get walk or jab. But if you're able to react on a 1/60 second window and hit it exactly then good for you.

Sorry if this comes off kinda sarcastic (which it should,) but that section is based off what is realistic frame-wise and reaction-wise. I'm not trying to say that you won't be able do it ever, but that it would be hard to get down and consistently do in a tournament setting. You take f-tilt for example and you say you're doing it as soon as control becomes available, which means there's room for flaw in human reaction. A lot of room too, seeing as how you have to do it on the 1/60 second that control becomes available. This is why we buffer things, because it's easier and you can consistently pull of moves as soon as you are able to. It's hard to buffer f-tilt though because of sensitive buffer mechanics for f-tilts.

I was a little vague on how pivot d-tilt could be considered hard and I didn't explain it that well. Having the control stick reset to neutral isn't that hard, you're right. I mostly consider it hard because the input for pivot has to be somewhat tight, if you're off a bit in either direction, you could be doing a foxtrot in the opposite direction you want, or a foxtrot without resetting to neutral. Add a d-tilt into this mix and it becomes slightly muddled. But with practice I suppose it could be done, just not sure about consistently.

Again, I'm not saying what's hard or easy for certain people, I'm not attacking anybody's tech skill, I'm simply stating what's hard or easy in terms of realistics and new Ganon players. You forget that hard and easy are open terms that are subject to interpretation.

So I'm not changing the section unless you can come back with videos of you doing pivoted d-tilt without a-stick >_>.

sliq already did this and it works on Norfair, Smashville, Battlefield, and just about all levels with plats I need something else to do but I can't think of anything

You clamoring that much to do stuff Dragmire ? Let's see...dunno, yo could do testing of which characters can't attack out of Stomp at 0% lol. Oh, and I'm messing around with hitting reverse tipman on bouncing characters. It has the same effect as jab/laser lock. I was wondering, doesn't jab/laser make them have to stand up when they are hit with it during bouncing? If so, couldn't you land a reverse tipman on a bouncing character then get a free...whatever really?

 

[Dragmire]

I'll do the stomp thing after school today but as for the reverse tipman it does work like laser lock but problem is they'd recover it before you could do anything but that's why double ganon ***** ****

 

[Swoops]

Bump for a sticky...sticky? any stickies?

Blad has a thread that talks about it. I'm not talking about a tipman lock, but stomp>tipman so it makes them stand up. Since u-air autocancels you can directly go into any move you want and have it guaranteed. Check blad01's testing for more info.

 

[PK-ow!]

Well, it's really only guaranteed if you can do f-tilt on frame 1 that control is available. If you can then yea it wouldn't be that hard. It's also hard for many people because f-tilt is very sensitive to buffering. If you are usually off by a fraction of a second you get walk or jab. But if you're able to react on a 1/60 second window and hit it exactly then good for you.

I feel like a douche. I somehow didn't catch that you meant Gerudo ~ftilt. Yeah, that would be hard.

. . . I don't undestand why it has to be frame perfect if dtilt (Gerudo to dtilt) doesn't, though. *shrug*

So I'm not changing the section unless you can come back with videos of you doing pivoted d-tilt without a-stick >_>.

I really should get one o' them vidja techanalogies.

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Bump for a sticky...sticky? any stickies?

Blad has a thread that talks about it. I'm not talking about a tipman lock, but stomp>tipman so it makes them stand up. Since u-air autocancels you can directly go into any move you want and have it guaranteed. Check blad01's testing for more info.

Probably need to PM a mod or something.

Definitely needs sticky though since this is by far the msot up to date guide

 

[A2ZOMG]

Here is a combo I've been doing for some time.

D-air to F-smash.

F-smash comes out about the same speed as U-smash, but it's safer on activation because Ganon leans back during the startup. This helps stop some people from immediately N-airing you right after you D-air them.

If they DI away from you, you will probably want to go for the U-smash though.

 

[Dragmire]

Alrighty then I got the list completed for who is hittable by Dair Usmash and more

These chars can be hit by Dair Usmash Uair









People who can only be hit by Dair Usmash












people who can be hit under certain circumstances

has to powershield
has to powershield
has to ground tech

People who can easily airdodge or shield it




:shiek:

why'd I even test this














AND NOW FOR THE GREATEST DISCOVERY EVER
while i was testing this I randomly wanted some ganoncide so I did it to snake now everyone knows about grabbing snake while he's on his cipher well if you grab his head the cipher will hit ganon and snake won't be able to reuse it :D AMAZING HUH?

and another things that's not so important you can buffer Dtilts when auto cancelling Uair or Bair by Down Csticking

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Are you sure that the bouncing combo is a true combo? I'm not getting much satisfying results.

 

[Dragmire]

tried it it doesn't work but double ganon teams can infinite juggle with it

 

[Swoops]

I feel like a douche. I somehow didn't catch that you meant Gerudo ~ftilt. Yeah, that would be hard.

. . . I don't undestand why it has to be frame perfect if dtilt (Gerudo to dtilt) doesn't, though. *shrug*

Lol don't worry about it, s'alright. Eh, it just has to be I guess. It's just sensitive with buffering. You can definitely buffer f-tilts it's just harder.

Alrighty then I got the list completed for who is hittable by Dair Usmash and more

These chars can be hit by Dair Usmash Uair









People who can only be hit by Dair Usmash












people who can be hit under certain circumstances

has to powershield
has to powershield
has to ground tech

People who can easily airdodge or shield it




:shiek:

why'd I even test this














AND NOW FOR THE GREATEST DISCOVERY EVER
while i was testing this I randomly wanted some ganoncide so I did it to snake now everyone knows about grabbing snake while he's on his cipher well if you grab his head the cipher will hit ganon and snake won't be able to reuse it :D AMAZING HUH?

and another things that's not so important you can buffer Dtilts when auto cancelling Uair or Bair by Down Csticking

Hell yea, great stuff Dragmire, I assume this is all from 0%? I'll put it up as soon as I can...just not sure where...probably under D-Air.

EDIT: I said a lot about c-sticking down for buffering d-tilts in my old buffering thread, I think it's in the buffering section.

tried it it doesn't work but double ganon teams can infinite juggle with it

It does work trust me. Jab locks don't really count as multiple hits under the hits meter, which you shouldn't be trusting anyways. But it forces get up so they have to eat the next move that you time. I'll be getting a vid up soon for blad.

 

[Dragmire]

wow I guess I'm prolly doin it wrong and yeah they were all at 0% btw you did read the snake gimp thing right?

 

[hyperstation]

I NEEEEEEED to see a video of this ganon doubles infinite juggle bouncing. It sounds gut-wrenching, tear-jerking, and bowel-movement-inducing.

 

[Swoops]

BUMP! For an update and a sticky! Added a new kind of combos section called "Strings" so check it out and let's get some feedback. Also added a little thing about quake so people will stop posting threads about it...but probably not. I hoped to have it be a bigger update because I was planning on redoing all my frame data with VirtualDub and adding advantages/disadvantages/shield stun, but seeing as VirtualDub doesn't work with my capture card, that update won't be up for a little while. So enjoy this one.

wow I guess I'm prolly doin it wrong and yeah they were all at 0% btw you did read the snake gimp thing right?

Yea, I read the snake thing, but that's what happens every time you Gerudo snake during cypher. I mean that you never actually grab the cypher, you grab snake and get by the cypher. But a warning to everyone, you can hit snake with Gerudo and the cypher won't hit you, so be careful

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

*sneaks in*

*leaves a sheik to kill ganondorf.*

just wanted to spy on the other side.

 

[Swoops]

*sneaks in*

*leaves a sheik to kill ganondorf.*

just wanted to spy on the other side.

LYNCH HIM!!

Also, bump for some sort of sticky.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

but.... I'm sheik.... and your ganondorf.... what are you going to do? whiff at me threateningly?

 

[Swoops]

but.... I'm sheik.... and your ganondorf.... what are you going to do? whiff at me threateningly?

Lol...what are you going to do...not KO me? Go back to your boards if you've found the info you wanted.

 

[ZenJestr]

no matter how well you bathe yourself in shadows, the sound of the thunderstorm to come will find you, as if your own shadow has mutinied against your soul, bringing forth the wrath of a thousand suns.......to fulfill His black desires; to satisfy His fell lust for that which is rightfully His...and yours....









switching tier placements with Meta Knight...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Lol...what are you going to do...not KO me? Go back to your boards if you've found the info you wanted.

no I'll just edgeguard KO you.... but hah fair enough. I did find out enough. I was just wondering what chains Zelda and sheik could and could not escape.

 

[Blad01]

God job again Swoops, and nice to see updates every day ^^

About strings, i use one time to time : It's not a true combo AT ALL, but works pretty well if unexepected :

Dash Attack > Bair (or Uair)

But it's "Airdodgable", can be countered by an attack (luigi Nair :x), and is probably Diable.

 

[:034:]

I use that too - it works best if you hit with the far end of the Dash Attack, which is weaker.

I once did Ledge Attack -> DA -> bair -> Murder Choke -> dtilt -> tipman uair. It was pretty sexy. <:

 

[Dragmire]

anything else I could do? becuase I'm suddenly hyped to brawl again

also make a section on snake gimps it looks Way too glorious and evil

 

[fromundaman]

but.... I'm sheik.... and your ganondorf.... what are you going to do? whiff at me threateningly?

Don't make us put you back in the crystal.


Also, quick question: How often do you guys use pivots? While I seem to be able to pull them off reliably now (*Cough* without the A-stick... *cough*), I never really see a good opportunity to use it in an actual match.

Also, something really weird happened to me yesterday: I somehow seem to have jump-canceled a Fair (And I have a replay of it, which I'll upload ASAP). I've been trying to recreate it, but no luck. Has anyone ever had this happen before? (I was being hit left, was DIing right with both sticks, which triggered a Fair, and I hit jump right as I hit the edge of the left platform on the main part of Pokemon Stadium 1.)

 

[Blad01]

And Swoops... About the sticky, you should just PM a mod, ask him to sticky this, and not unsticky Shin's guide That worked fo my Faclo's threads.

 

[hyperstation]

Suggestion: swoops, how about a bit about airdodging unto the ledge from a ledge grab? I'm not very consistent with that.

 

[Swoops]

God job again Swoops, and nice to see updates every day ^^

About strings, i use one time to time : It's not a true combo AT ALL, but works pretty well if unexepected :

Dash Attack > Bair (or Uair)

But it's "Airdodgable", can be countered by an attack (luigi Nair :x), and is probably Diable.

Hm, I'll definitely put some DA stuff in. I personally love DA>Tipman>whatever, or DA>dash away>stomp into them. Most people tend to DI into you and attack after weak hit DA or low percent DA. Dash away and fuck em up.

Don't make us put you back in the crystal.


Also, quick question: How often do you guys use pivots? While I seem to be able to pull them off reliably now (*Cough* without the A-stick... *cough*), I never really see a good opportunity to use it in an actual match.

Also, something really weird happened to me yesterday: I somehow seem to have jump-canceled a Fair (And I have a replay of it, which I'll upload ASAP). I've been trying to recreate it, but no luck. Has anyone ever had this happen before? (I was being hit left, was DIing right with both sticks, which triggered a Fair, and I hit jump right as I hit the edge of the left platform on the main part of Pokemon Stadium 1.)

I'll usually work pivots into my defense, as in go in>bait with jump or whatever>dash away>pivot into d-tilt. I'll also use them at close range a lot. Ganon sometimes has trouble in close, so it's nice to get back out to more of a mid range with a pivoted d-tilt. Spotdodge, dash away, pivot d-tilt.

Waaat? Sir, you get that up as soon as possible so I can see what happens.

And Swoops... About the sticky, you should just PM a mod, ask him to sticky this, and not unsticky Shin's guide That worked fo my Faclo's threads.

I already PMed gimpy a while ago but no response so far. If anything they are busy with BR applications, but still....everybody PM him en masse! That's right, fill up that inbox so he can't use it.

Suggestion: swoops, how about a bit about airdodging unto the ledge from a ledge grab? I'm not very consistent with that.

Well, I definitely mentioned it, but I could put up a bit more involving the method. It can be summarized pretty quick though. Ledge hop, and airdodge into the stage as you get to the peak of your jump.

 

[:034:]

fromundaman, get that video up now! It may be crucial to finding our fair approach!

Probably not but meh.

 

[Gleam]

no seriously, you're F****** awesome Swoops. Ganondorf needs the recongnition as always.

 

[fromundaman]

Arg... didn't get time to get it yesterday... it'll be up either late tonight or sometime tomorrow. Sorry... (I want it up just as much as you guys, since I can't figure out what happened, and I'm sure one of you bright people will.)

EDIT: By the way, thanks for the pivoting advice Swoops! I'll try it out (was tired and missed it earlier >.<)

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I'm going to start A-Sticking with Ganondorf now, I find it much better then C-Sticking, geurdo to F-Tilt and instead of a laggy down smash mistake when I mess up buffering I get a lagless D-tilt. Though I'll miss running then Up-smashing.

How do you stutter step with A-stick on, by the way?

 

[ZenJestr]

you dont...

 

[Ray_Kalm]

you dont...

I'm quite sure theirs a way, it's just harder to do.

 

[Blad01]

Right > Left-Smash = Stupper-Step Smash (but also slower)

 

[fromundaman]

On a side note, I was checking the stages in the guide, and I see you have Jungle Japes listed as average. Why? I don't know how you guys feel about it, but to me that is the worse legal Ganon stage in existence. The reasons why:

Jungle Japes: -9000 (errr... 1) This stage is absolutely terrible for Ganon. The current will kill you no matter what if you fall on the left side of the stage, since Ganon's jump is pretty bad, and being a heavy character, by the time you get out of the water, you're too far to recover anyway. If you fall on the far right, you can make it out, and between the two right platforms is tough, but doable. As if this weren't bad enough, odds are you're going to get hit by that **** crocodile if you fall in.
Next, Ganon's Dsmash, well, for lack of a better word, sucks. While that comment may seem out of place, you have to keep in mind most characters have a decent Dsmash that covers the entirety of the side two platforms. Ganon has a terrible two hit Dsmash which is slow as balls and who's second hit, the one that does the real damage (The first one does 5%...), can be easily air dodged. On top of that, those side platforms don't give Ganon the room he needs to properly operate.
As if all that weren't enough, the borders of this stage have to be HUGE. Ganon's main strengths are survivability and amazing power for quick KOs, both of which are negated by this stage. You fall into the water (which can and may happen after a single hit), you're pretty much dead. Meanwhile, you can beat the living daylights out of your opponent and they just won't die... especially if you're trying to kill them off the top, which since you can't edgeguard properly on this stage, and you can't really chase them off as Ganon, seems at first glance to be the best solution, you realize the ceiling is about ten trillion miles away, and you practically need a NASA spaceshuttle to reach it.
The main platform is nice, because of the low platform, but it hardly makes up for the horribleness of this stage.

TL:DR Basically, never EVER pick this stage as Ganon. No number can convey how horrible it is. Ban it ASAP. Even Rainbow Road and Lylat are better for you than this one.

Yeah... I REALLY hate this stage...

 

[Swoops]

On a side note, I was checking the stages in the guide, and I see you have Jungle Japes listed as average. Why? I don't know how you guys feel about it, but to me that is the worse legal Ganon stage in existence.

Yeah... I REALLY hate this stage...

^_-, the only time I die as Ganon when I fall in the water is either due to the klap or because I fall of under the left platform or further, which happens to a lot of characters, not just Ganon. When anyone falls into the water they have a chance of getting klapped.

I have a little trouble approaching against the smaller platforms, but stomp seriously substitutes as a damn good d-smash. If you get control of one of those platforms, hell you can control it better than a lot of the characters in the game, stomp pretty much covers the whole platform for god's sake.

You can get a lot of kills of stomp (into the water of course), as well as edgeguarding into the water, which will kill them pretty fast. Also, the side borders are incredibly close, that means f-tilts and jabs net you kills earlier, as well f-smash. Higher ceilings also ensure Ganon's survivability.

One time, I knocked my opponent off the stage into the water at the right side and jumped in after him, both rushed down the river and u-air stage spiked him...Jungle Japes is the shit.

 

[Lex Crunch]

I find Ganondorf is actually quite good in that stage. There's nothing quite so satisfying as a faux Ganoncide into the rushing waters, giving them a head start careening through the rapids at incredible speeds while you land like normal.

 

[Blad01]

Also about Jungles Japes :

• Ganon's techchase on platforms is fu***** good.
• Side B into a platform is safe (... almost safe)
• SH (or FH) Bair, Uair (tipman), FH Nair are good for attacking an opponent standing on a platform.
• You can kill easily with Stomp into the water of course, but also with FTilt, FSmash, BThrow. On the other hand, you can't with USmash, Stomp into Star death.

 

[fromundaman]

Hmmm... I've found the biggest place that kills me in JJ is the gap between the main platform and the far left platform. I always barely miss getting back.

You guys bring up a lot of good point though. Thanks, I'll go mess around with all this and see if I can get a bit better at this stage.

Also, I've found edgeguarding to make them fall into the water somewhat ineffective, since the platforms are low enough that most characters don't really need to hit the edge and can go right back onto the platform itself. Of course, that depends on the character and where they're coming from, but still...

 

[Swoops]

lol...for anyone who is interested, I actually included a very, very short excerpt about dash dancing in the last update... just forgot about it o-o

 

[fromundaman]

Also, thanks again for that Jungle Japes info. Not sure why I never thought of using stomp on thos side platforms, it helps a LOT. Also, those posts also helped me notice I don't use the Ftilt near often enough. Ah well.

Also, I'm pretty sure you guys already know this, and it probably isn't all that useful since Blad found the bounce combo, but if you hit a short hopper with a stomp (or really anyone in the air, but it's easier if they short hop), you can follow it up with a jab or Ftilt (maybe Dtilt too? I never use it for that...). Just throwing that in since I didn't see it anywhere.

Edit: Why is there a smiley at the top of my post? That thing's way too happy for the Ganon boards! (Says the guy with a Kirby icon...) GET IT OFF! GET IT OFF!

Edit again: Finally got the video up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaOYFuIr7F0