.:How to Murder Stuff:. A Guide to the 'Dorf'

[fromundaman]

Great guide Swoops. This has seriously improved my Ganon game by a LOT. The pivot thing was something I didn't know of and am absolutely loving.

Also, that N-air used at almost ground level is, much like you guys had said, not all that great. The only useful application I've found of this is to do a FJed stomp to bait them then a N-air as you hit the ground and follow wth jab or stutter step F-smash. Not sure if this is really all that advantageous, but I might as well throw it out there. Works well against comps in any case, not that that's saying much.

This guide gets

 

[Swoops]

I believe this guide should warrant a sticky...what say all of you? Stickah!

Also, that N-air used at almost ground level is, much like you guys had said, not all that great. The only useful application I've found of this is to do a FJed stomp to bait them then a N-air as you hit the ground and follow wth jab or stutter step F-smash. Not sure if this is really all that advantageous, but I might as well throw it out there. Works well against comps in any case, not that that's saying much.

Overall, yea it's not that great. But I'm messing around with it as an OoS tactic. A tiny bit less lag than jab, and it might be faster than jab seeing as you don't have to drop your shield. Plus, you'd be able to retreat with it OoS.

 

[:034:]

Sticky this shit!

PS: I only use nair as a mid-air interruption. It's situational, but it works. People don't expect it because it comes out fairly quickly, and has decent enough knockback to get people away from you while you recover from the lag.

 

[Swoops]

Sticky this shit!

PS: I only use nair as a mid-air interruption. It's situational, but it works. People don't expect it because it comes out fairly quickly, and has decent enough knockback to get people away from you while you recover from the lag.

Shame on you for not using FJ n-air at least sometimes. I'm still thinking n-air is going to be good for OoS. I'm sick of getting my fucking jab shield grabbed. Not to mention n-air=2 hits, so no spot dodging it on the ground either.

 

[LinkSceptile333]

This is probably not that important and mention already, but I'll say it already.

If you Murder Choke a Ness or Lucas (I don't think it works on anyone else) right under the bottom two platforms on Battlefield, they will fall on top of the platform, allowing you to quickly follow up with a Usmash.

Somewhat situational, though.

 

[Dragmire]

Very nice swoops we need more great ganons other than you Flying dutchman Sliq Bizarro and me

BTW funny and awesome idea for rating of how effective moves are when it comes to .5 make it ganon

EX. (4.5) ganon

 

[Blad01]

Btw...

Woot, 4/5 for U-Smash, and 3/5 for Fsmash O_O I rarely use U-smash, while reatreating SS FSmash is my main Ko move, with Stomp.

Seriously, USmash is not that great, and as a fake out - when it works - this will work 3 times maximal on the same personn. :s

 

[:034:]

I don't see why it's not a superior move.

It starts up faster, has much less lag due to IASA frames, equals fsmash in range (only vertically) and it kills considerably easier: when somebody lands on a platform at 90%, he's already dead. Fsmash is easier to punish and it has that lag, which makes the move unsafe on block, while usmash isn't.

And having an insanely powerful smash safe on block is a seriously handy thing to have. Not a whole lot of characters have those.

 

[A2ZOMG]

To be honest, I probably don't U-smash enough. I'm dumb, and I really have a hard time putting it to application outside of the obvious hit things above you.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I usually Up Smash a lot, for bait. Legan fell for it several times just now <_<, I managed beating his Link 4-1.

 

[LeeHarris]

No idea if this is common knowledge or not, but I didn't come across it so I didn't mention it. Ganon can't hug the edge like MK or someone similar can, but if you just run off the edge and time it right about when his chest is near the ledge (I think? not at a Wii right now) and side B, the edge will glow purple for a split second and you'll instantly edge hog.

 

[deadpoe7]

No idea if this is common knowledge or not, but I didn't come across it so I didn't mention it. Ganon can't hug the edge like MK or someone similar can, but if you just run off the edge and time it right about when his chest is near the ledge (I think? not at a Wii right now) and side B, the edge will glow purple for a split second and you'll instantly edge hog.

I discovered this myself a while ago, and was going to post it, but I remembered that someone had already posted how to speed hug, which you can do faster without having to time a ->B.

 

[Jekyll]

Very nice swoops we need more great ganons other than you Flying dutchman Sliq Bizarro and me

BTW funny and awesome idea for rating of how effective moves are when it comes to .5 make it ganon

EX. (4.5) ganon

...*Rolls over and dies*... (x_x)

 

[Dragmire]

*adds to list of awesomeness* *apologizes*

Upsmash is actually a great bait due to nice reach and easy iasa into Ftilt

 

[Ray_Kalm]

*adds to list of awesomeness* *apologizes*

Upsmash is actually a great bait due to nice reach and easy iasa into Ftilt

Into anything..(with reach).

 

[MoblinMan]

I agree with Up smash being awesome.

People are so used to air dodging into the ground that you can sometimes get a run ---> U Smash right as they land.

Great Guide, I really enjoyed it. I had a few questions about land chasing though.

I think it's awesome how you were able to explain in words what "land chasing," was, and even more that I knew exactly what you were talking about.

The question I had was how often, when you predict your opponent's air-dodge-into-the-ground and either do gerudo, wizkick or the like when they touch down, do you get the timing right? It's really hard for me, and I don't even play online.

Usually once I've forced the airdodge, I have to have a hitbox on top of them the exact frame they land, or it's a no-go because after a couple games, they've adapted to holding shield as they land or:

air dodging into the ground ---> immediate spotdodge to dodge both -->B and and any hard hitting move.

I hope that made sense, I'm not the best at explaining things in-game. Basically, is it a guaranteed hit if they land while air-dodging into Wizkick/Dash attack/Gerudo?

 

[Swoops]

Lol at me just learning the ways of multiquote.

Very nice swoops we need more great ganons other than you Flying dutchman Sliq Bizarro and me

BTW funny and awesome idea for rating of how effective moves are when it comes to .5 make it ganon

EX. (4.5) ganon

Really...cold blooded Dragmire. Jekyll's feelings are hurt. Plus, Bizzaro hasn't been around in forever and is a really old Granondorf. He was just good for that time.

...I think dorf rather than Ganon >_>.

Btw...

Woot, 4/5 for U-Smash, and 3/5 for Fsmash O_O I rarely use U-smash, while reatreating SS FSmash is my main Ko move, with Stomp.

Seriously, USmash is not that great, and as a fake out - when it works - this will work 3 times maximal on the same personn. :s

I do love f-smash a lot, but U-Smash is definitely better. I'll admit I have problems working it into his game more than f-smash, but his u-smash has less lag than his jab, d-tilt, f-tilt, all his aerials, and really most of his moves. Plus the fact that it does tons of damage, kills fairly well, and is Ganon's best fake out on the ground. I have frame testing to do and stuff but have you seen the shield pushback on u-smash? It's as much as f-air or f-smash.

I love f-smash to death, but don't let personal preference get in the way of fact.

No idea if this is common knowledge or not, but I didn't come across it so I didn't mention it. Ganon can't hug the edge like MK or someone similar can, but if you just run off the edge and time it right about when his chest is near the ledge (I think? not at a Wii right now) and side B, the edge will glow purple for a split second and you'll instantly edge hog.

It takes a little bit, but I'll put it up. I usually stick to Gerudo over the side>quartercircle into the ledge. Yea, risky as hell, but it's fast.

The question I had was how often, when you predict your opponent's air-dodge-into-the-ground and either do gerudo, wizkick or the like when they touch down, do you get the timing right? It's really hard for me, and I don't even play online.

Usually once I've forced the airdodge, I have to have a hitbox on top of them the exact frame they land, or it's a no-go because after a couple games, they've adapted to holding shield as they land or:

air dodging into the ground ---> immediate spotdodge to dodge both -->B and and any hard hitting move.

I hope that made sense, I'm not the best at explaining things in-game. Basically, is it a guaranteed hit if they land while air-dodging into Wizkick/Dash attack/Gerudo?

It's really just a "get the feel of it" kind of thing. There are specific frames/timings where Gerudo/Wizkick/DA/etc. are guaranteed. But most of the time with air dodging into the ground it's just hard for them to get out, not guaranteed.

If you're having problems with their air dodge into the ground, Gerudo obviously beats shield, and Wizkick will destroy spot dodge most of the time. I use dash in grab a lot now too. Just play more and more people and you get the hang of the timing and options they use.

 

[A2ZOMG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-7iu5m0dF0

Wizard foot trix video.

 

[sleepy_head83]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-7iu5m0dF0

Wizard foot trix video.

Could someone explain to me how to get no lag on the grounded wizard foot in that video.

Nevermind explanation was in the video man i feel stupid

Anyways great video and guide.

 

[Mmac]

Great Guide! The only error I saw (And focused on) Is that Choke to Ftilt doesn't work on Yoshi. I always got out of it in time if someone tries it on me.


It's funny thats pretty much the only thing I focused on

 

[:034:]

@Mmac: Most of the Flame Choke -> Ftilt combo's only work when buffered correctly by using A-sticking.

 

[Mmac]

@Mmac: Most of the Flame Choke -> Ftilt combo's only work when buffered correctly by using A-sticking.

Ah, I see. I'm not sure if the Ganondorfs I've played were using A-Sticking. It's probably the same deal with Dtilt too, isn't it?

I should use A-Sticking for my Ganondorf. Probably Tap Jump too for Dair. Gotta remember to use a new control scheme.

 

[:034:]

First thread to be blessed with my new avatar. <:

@Mmac: Most Ganons don't A-stick... It's just not common. Apparently it works a lot better, but I'm a really stubborn guy so I probably won't ever use it.

 

[Swoops]

*can't see FD's new avatar* >__>.
Which means I should probably ask a very important question...can you see my awesome avatar?

Most Ganon's don't use a-stick either because of stubbornness or, like me, because for some reason it's hard to get used to. I like u-smash a lot though and it's kind of hard to do it on the fly with a-stick. D-Tilt out of choke is pretty easy to do without a-stick. Not to mention a-stick is pretty buggy every so often. Pivot f-smash isn't too hard without c-stick though, and pivoted d-tilts are amazing.

I'll put up a pro/con thing of the c-stick versus a-stick.

 

[:034:]

Wtf foo?! I can't see yours either >_> Lame.

Pivoted d-tilts do sound sexy, but I'm pretty stubborn. Like really. Only reason I'd change my settings is 0 lag fair... Maybe.

 

[Mmac]

I can see Swoops Awesome Skull, but I can't see Dutchman's or myself

 

[fromundaman]

*can't see FD's new avatar* >__>.
Which means I should probably ask a very important question...can you see my awesome avatar?

Most Ganon's don't use a-stick either because of stubbornness or, like me, because for some reason it's hard to get used to. I like u-smash a lot though and it's kind of hard to do it on the fly with a-stick. D-Tilt out of choke is pretty easy to do without a-stick. Not to mention a-stick is pretty buggy every so often. Pivot f-smash isn't too hard without c-stick though, and pivoted d-tilts are amazing.

I'll put up a pro/con thing of the c-stick versus a-stick.

Nope, can't see either. But anyway, that's besides the point.

Maybe I'm not doing it right and pivoted D-tilts are supposed to be faster than I'm doing them, but if I am doing it right, I have absolutely no trouble doing it without the Astick, though I find myself having trouble with pivoted F-smashes (or pivoted Usmashes for that matter) without c-stick.

Then again, I'm the kind of guy who's more comfortable using the stomp with tap jump off, so what do I know?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Choke to F-tilt is difficult to do.

You have to lightly hold forward and hope that the game buffers the tilt rather than a Jab or Walking.

Although it's not as hard on certain characters who have longer stun time from the Flame Choke. Really lightweight characters like Olimar for example I don't have much trouble F-tilting from Choke. I wouldn't recommend spamming it on those characters however. Rather since the D-tilt just as easily hits anyone who can be F-tilted, use that one to do damage. Use the F-tilt to kill and gimp people.

 

[Swoops]

I can see Swoops Awesome Skull, but I can't see Dutchman's or myself

T_T You shame me sir, 'tis the venture bros. skull. But I suppose it's a compliment nonetheless .

Nope, can't see either. But anyway, that's besides the point.

Maybe I'm not doing it right and pivoted D-tilts are supposed to be faster than I'm doing them, but if I am doing it right, I have absolutely no trouble doing it without the Astick, though I find myself having trouble with pivoted F-smashes (or pivoted Usmashes for that matter) without c-stick.

Then again, I'm the kind of guy who's more comfortable using the stomp with tap jump off, so what do I know?

You must be some sort of demigod to pull of pivot d-tilts without a-stick on. That's 3 different control stick inputs that have to be reset to neutral and then another input for d-tilt. Either it's not as fast or you are just inhuman o-O.

 

[SaltyKracka]

T_T You shame me sir, 'tis the venture bros. skull. But I suppose it's a compliment nonetheless .



You must be some sort of demigod to pull of pivot d-tilts without a-stick on. That's 3 different control stick inputs that have to be reset to neutral and then another input for d-tilt. Either it's not as fast or you are just inhuman o-O.

Meh, I can do that too. It's just exceedingly hard to time the uair right. Oh, and hard to remember to do in the middle of battle, as well. But hey, practice makes perfect, after all.

Oh, and nice rockin' the Venture Bros. skull.

 

[Swoops]

Meh, I can do that too. It's just exceedingly hard to time the uair right. Oh, and hard to remember to do in the middle of battle, as well. But hey, practice makes perfect, after all.

Oh, and nice rockin' the Venture Bros. skull.

...u-air? u-air is in no way involved in pivot...ooooooh, I might know the confusion. Pivoting =/= reverse buffering. Reverse buffering is just buffering in a reverse plus a move. Pivoting is strictly on the ground and is foxtrot away, foxtrot away, quickly hit back and a move. C'mon I have two different sections in my guide for these >.<.

 

[SaltyKracka]

...u-air? u-air is in no way involved in pivot...ooooooh, I might know the confusion. Pivoting =/= reverse buffering. Reverse buffering is just buffering in a reverse plus a move. Pivoting is strictly on the ground and is foxtrot away, foxtrot away, quickly hit back and a move. C'mon I have two different sections in my guide for these >.<.

Ah dammit. Feh, I usually just pivot an Fsmash anyways. Stutterstep FTW!

 

[Swoops]

Update and bump for the stickah!

For all those undecided between c-stick and a-stick, I added a short pros/cons section of each. I also added the wkc2 vid that hyperstation did, and a little under Gerudo in special moves.

A note: If I ever do at least semi-big updates, I'll say so right on the thread title, but for right now I'll just keep on telling you at the top of the guide. I made the updates pretty easy to see. The top of the guide helps a lot in telling what's in it (>_>) so use it.

 

[-Mars-]

Really nice guide, one of the best on all the character boards. I'm picking up Ganon and this taught me a lot of stuff I didn't know. The gerudo guaranteed followups were especially helpful.

 

[Dragmire]

Is there any more info that has yet to be gathered because I'm suddenly not feeling too lazy lol

 

[deadpoe7]

I've never really had a problem f-tilting out of gerudo (is that the accepted name now, I thought we agreed on choke?). The a-stick, c-stick section was very helpful. Honestly, all the cons to a-sticking seem pretty glaring to me.

 

[fromundaman]

You must be some sort of demigod to pull of pivot d-tilts without a-stick on. That's 3 different control stick inputs that have to be reset to neutral and then another input for d-tilt. Either it's not as fast or you are just inhuman o-O.

Then... I'm probably doing it wrong... Am I supposed to be sliding as the move comes out, or does it just turn me around and go straight to the move, because the latter is what I keep doing. If true pivoting makes me keep sliding, then I take that back, I have yet to manage to do it at all...

 

[PK-ow!]

From the a-stick section:

Gerudo>f-tilt is very easy

Whuh? When is that ever hard? Gerudo. Wait for control frames. Enter an ftilt.

???

I'm with fromundaman. Putting the control stick to neutral is easy. If it's what the game actually wants to see, that's easier than whatever is actually going on in, say, the DACUS.

 

[TP]

Is there any more info that has yet to be gathered because I'm suddenly not feeling too lazy lol

Uhhh.... how about which platforms on legal stages can be hit by a thunderstorm from below?
...Or something like that.

 

[Dragmire]

sliq already did this and it works on Norfair, Smashville, Battlefield, and just about all levels with plats I need something else to do but I can't think of anything