How to 'Dorf that move? 'How to deal with specific attacks' - IKE'S JAB

[Z1GMA]

*Added a lot of stuff to the OP*
Is it understandable as it is?

btw.. Could someone test Ftilt Vs the aerial 'Nado? I'm not sure how well it does against it.

 

[Noobicidal]

*Added a lot of stuff to the OP*
Is it understandable as it is?

It looks great aside from some lines starting early and "dashattack".

 

[Z1GMA]

It looks great aside from some lines starting early and "dashattack".

Ok.
What's up with Dashattack?

 

[Sgt. Baker]

So is Mach Tornado disscussion over? I forget if it was mentioned if there is a set amount of days for these moves disscusions.

 

[Gamegenie222]

So is Mach Tornado disscussion over? I forget if it was mentioned if there is a set amount of days for these moves disscusions.

long time no see, SGT. Baker

 

[Z1GMA]

So is Mach Tornado disscussion over? I forget if it was mentioned if there is a set amount of days for these moves disscusions.

Nope, there's no timelimit/deadline.

 

[Big O]

Any ground move that does 10 or more damage will beat the tornado. If MK is in the air then you just need a grounded move that can reach his hurtbox. All aerials will always lose against an aerial tornado unless you only hit MK's hurtbox. If you hit the tornado hitbox it will just clank through your aerial. Basically you have to space your aerials so that they hit the top of the tornado and not the sides or bottom.

Ftilt, dash attack, Fsmash, and Usmash are your friends. Properly spaced aerials work but are harder to pull off since MK moves pretty fast during the tornado.

 

[SmashBrosForce]

Any ground move that does 10 or more damage will beat the tornado. If MK is in the air then you just need a grounded move that can reach his hurtbox. All aerials will always lose against an aerial tornado unless you only hit MK's hurtbox. If you hit the tornado hitbox it will just clank through your aerial. Basically you have to space your aerials so that they hit the top of the tornado and not the sides or bottom.

Ftilt, dash attack, Fsmash, and Usmash are your friends. Properly spaced aerials work but are harder to pull off since MK moves pretty fast during the tornado.

You're right man.

U-smash is useful against Aerial Tornado, if hit the lower part of Aerial Tornado.

Jab could be included in this list of Friend Attacks (Ftilt, dash attack, Fsmash and Usmash), since Jab can stop the Grounded Tornado.

 

[Z1GMA]

No, Jab isn't good, since it can't "beat" the 'Nado. It just cancels it out.

If MK is in the air then you just need a grounded move that can reach his hurtbox.

I get the feeling you must hit the aerial 'Nado directly without even scratching/penetrating its hitboxes, unlike the grounded version.
What do you think about that?

 

[Z1GMA]

doublepost

 

[thexsunrosered]

just dtilt or run -.-

 

[Big O]

No, Jab isn't good, since it can't "beat" the 'Nado. It just cancels it out.

I get the feeling you must hit the aerial 'Nado directly without even scratching/penetrating its hitboxes, unlike the grounded version.
What do you think about that?

A grounded move that does 10 or more damage pierces through the tornado hitbox and continue with the rest of the motion with the hitbox still being active. For example you can dash attack through the bottom of an aerial tornado. Even though you won't hit him if he his high enough it still clanks with the tornado and continues on. Only aerials have to hit MK without hitting his aerial tornado hitbox. Aerials will clank with the aerial tornado and continue with the motion but the hitbox will deactivate.

 

[SmashBrosForce]

No, Jab isn't good, since it can't "beat" the 'Nado. It just cancels it out.

I get the feeling you must hit the aerial 'Nado directly without even scratching/penetrating its hitboxes, unlike the grounded version.
What do you think about that?

In our tests with Tornado, Jab really doesn't work ?

It can't "beat" but can Block.

I remember that you performed some Jabs and cancelled the Grounded Tornado...

 

[Z1GMA]

I've corrected a BUNCH of spelling/grammar errors -_-
And there's plenty more of 'em. lul

Ohh, ***** it. At least it's understandable.

I'm better at making vids + small writeups and stuff.
I'll make it easier for myself on the next attack discussion.

@Everyone: Is there something missing in the Tornado section?

EDIT: Added 'Nado Frame data.

 

[PhantomX]

I don't think you added enough info there. I want three more paragraphs of text and at least two more lists.

 

[Z1GMA]

I don't think you added enough info there. I want three more paragraphs of text and at least two more lists.

Care to be a little moar serious? c_c

 

[SmashBrosForce]

Great Update Z1GMA !
I learned many things about Dorf the Mach Tornado.

Thanks for your Help.


Good Job

 

[PhantomX]

My sarcasm implies that you have provided more than enough useful information, my friend.

 

[Z1GMA]

- Ok, coo'

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Next move:

Samus's Zair

1. Approaching + punishing
2. Samus's using her Zair to gimp you while you're off stage.

Discuss!​

 

[SuSa]

Powershield. Seriously. Only thing you can do. Even then, shielding can get you grabbed.

I hate that zair. >:

 

[TEECO]

How to deal with it:

Powershield. Seriously. Only thing you can do.

How to avoid it: Try to be within Dtilt range. Ganon has absolutley no projectiles, while Samus has 2... Plus her Zair. So being close up to her is your best option to actually advance in the fight. Unless you think power shielding everything and not doing damage is productive..

/how to avoid it

Zair is a move that you cant cancel, out prioritize, or even tie with. Making shielding, or spot dodging the only options for it really. You cant run away from something thats faster than the Captain of Falcons.

 

[SuSa]

Zamus has 3 projectiles. Down-B, Side-B, B-. Also zair might as well be considered a projectile with its range.

TEECO pretty much has it summarized.

There is a reason this matchup is like 80:20 Samus. XD

 

[TEECO]

Oh yeah, I didnt bother mentioning Down B though because it has no horizontal traveling distance at all, thus not creating a problem for Ganon when he is far away.

I know this is like my first time on the Ganon boards, but maybe we can skip to the next move to learn how to Dorf it. Perhaps after a few more posts.

 

[Z1GMA]

I know this is like my first time on the Ganon boards, but maybe we can skip to the next move to learn how to Dorf it. Perhaps after a few more posts.

Telling people to spend their time Power Shielding at Ftilt-range, is enough? Sorry, m8. I can't agree.

Samus's Ftilt is faster than ours and it has better range, making our Ftilt worthless after her zair'ing.
If anything, Ganon should be within his Dtilt range. Even his Jab reaches longer than Ftilt.

 

[TEECO]

How to deal with it:


How to avoid it: Try to be within Dtilt range. Ganon has absolutley no projectiles, while Samus has 2... Plus her Zair. So being close up to her is your best option to actually advance in the fight. Unless you think power shielding everything and not doing damage is productive..

/how to avoid it

Zair is a move that you cant cancel, out prioritize, or even tie with. Making shielding, or spot dodging the only options for it really. You can run away from something thats faster than the Captain of Falcons.

Fixed.

Alright, I'll wait to read the other options that Ganon has..

 

[SmashBrosForce]

Powershield is the Best way I guess. As SuSa said, its possible to be the Only thing you can do.

I try to use Air Dodge when I get off stage to Avoid it.

The Embossed Pokemon killed me one time with Zair.

I Believe that have more things to do beyond Powershielding.

Z1GMA, Time to Test ? Just call me !

 

[:034:]

Against zair: powershield or shield. IF you shield it, don't advance. If you powershield it, look at the distance, if advancing would put you in sweetspot zair position, don't. If it brings you in dtilt range, advance.

Just stay patient.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Against zair: powershield or shield. IF you shield it, don't advance. If you powershield it, look at the distance, if advancing would put you in sweetspot zair position, don't. If it brings you in dtilt range, advance.

Just stay patient.

Dtilt will still be too slow to punish OoS, Samus's ZAir has virtually no lag.

 

[SmashBrosForce]

Ground Dodge or Aerial Dodge works to Avoid Samus Zair?

 

[:034:]

Dtilt will still be too slow to punish OoS, Samus's ZAir has virtually no lag.

?

I didn't mention punishing it in my post. It puts you at a better position, which is always a good thing.

 

[Sgt. Baker]

Ugh, I HATE this move. Seriously this is like one of those moves that just get me all the time. I'm glad this is being discussed for I need help with this one. All I can seem to do is Airdodge or Grounddodge. This thing barely has any lag the most I try to do is either D-Tilt or a Jab.

 

[Big O]

Well I did some testing and the Zair has a -6 frame advantage on block if it lands right after hitting your shield. If she doesn't land right after hitting you then you also get every frame she is still in the air to do something. Perfect shielding still makes it a -6 frame advantage but you don't need to drop your shield.

This means a Zair to the face is a free grab powershielded or not. If you powershield within Dtilt or dash attack range then chances are it will work because they won't Zair at the perfect height to land right away.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Well I did some testing and the Zair has a -6 frame advantage on block if it lands right after hitting your shield. If she doesn't land right after hitting you then you also get every frame she is still in the air to do something. Perfect shielding still makes it a -6 frame advantage but you don't need to drop your shield.

This means a Zair to the face is a free grab powershielded or not. If you powershield within Dtilt or dash attack range then chances are it will work because they won't Zair at the perfect height to land right away.

Ganon's grab, which is also is fastest move, comes out at frame 7. Wouldn't that mean that it's not guaranteed?

 

[Big O]

Spot dodge is invincible on frame 2. If she had a 1 frame attack it would trade and the grab would win.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Spot dodge is invincible on frame 2. If she had a 1 frame attack it would trade and the grab would win.

Nevermind this.

 

[Breezy]

Counter-pick BF and use the **** out of the platforms? The only way that I've seen that's slightly effective against Zair is SHAD to shield across the stage, then when you're within her grab range, she'll most likely grab, expecting to grab you out of your shield. This is when you spam spotdodge and murder choke her face. Best I've got =/

Mindgames FTpossibleW

 

[SuSa]

Her Zair can hit you off the platforms when you are on them.

 

[PK-ow!]

Dtilt will still be too slow to punish OoS, Samus's ZAir has virtually no lag.

What do you mean virtually no lag?

There's one place in which it has plenty punishable lag, and one place in which it has literally no lag.

Anyway, I'd Dorf this move by ducking. And if that doesn't work, DA or Dash shield. Is there something wrong with this?


If I wasn't ill I could play a good local Samus over Wifi right now... grr...

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Well I did some testing and the Zair has a -6 frame advantage on block if it lands right after hitting your shield. If she doesn't land right after hitting you then you also get every frame she is still in the air to do something. Perfect shielding still makes it a -6 frame advantage but you don't need to drop your shield.

This means a Zair to the face is a free grab powershielded or not. If you powershield within Dtilt or dash attack range then chances are it will work because they won't Zair at the perfect height to land right away.

The grab only works at very close ranges though, so we're still pretty much optionless after a shielded/power shielded Zair.

 

[Big O]

The grab only works at very close ranges though, so we're still pretty much optionless after a shielded/power shielded Zair.

Well I did say to the face but I meant to say in your face which implies point blank range. If you powershield it at Dtilt range, chances are you can Dtilt before they can block because there is no way they can time and space the Zair that perfectly. It is -6 when done perfectly but it can and will be more negative than that in game. I'm not saying Dtilt is 100% guaranteed at that range but if you are quick you have a good shot at actually pulling it off.