How to 'Dorf that move? 'How to deal with specific attacks' - IKE'S JAB

[thexsunrosered]

Is it able to hit ganon if he just stays spamming dtilt i.e lower than his crouch(I think) o.O

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Well I did say to the face but I meant to say in your face which implies point blank range. If you powershield it at Dtilt range, chances are you can Dtilt before they can block because there is no way they can time and space the Zair that perfectly. It is -6 when done perfectly but it can and will be more negative than that in game. I'm not saying Dtilt is 100% guaranteed at that range but if you are quick you have a good shot at actually pulling it off.

I've seen Samuses who space ZAir extremely well. What's the worse disadvantage (in frames) Samus can get after a powershielded ZAir?

 

[Koskinator]

shad into buffered step dodge into buffered shad. rinse/repeat

 

[TheGanonBoards]

shad into buffered step dodge into buffered shad. rinse/repeat[/QUOTE

Edited.

 

[Superspright]

That shad side-step thing works pretty well against samus. I use it all the time, but samus is still a ***** to fight.

 

[Z1GMA]

EDIT:

*Deleted per request*

 

[Big O]

I've seen Samuses who space ZAir extremely well. What's the worse disadvantage (in frames) Samus can get after a powershielded ZAir?

The worst disadvantage she can get on a powershielded Zair is really bad. A buffered short hop Zair to the face would give something like -50. A Samus who really knows what they are doing will probably land about 4-7 frames after hitting your shield on average making it -10 to -13. There will be times when it's -6 and times when it is like -20. The higher they are when you see the Zair hit, the more lag she will have since it takes time to land.

 

[PhantomX]

You can SHAD to buffered spot dodge as much as you want... she can still just spam Zair and run around and you're doing nothing but avoiding. She can also mix in smash missiles to **** with timing.

You'll be hard pressed to do much of anything to it. Even powershielding you are very unlikely to punish it... even if that IS your best option.

 

[Squirrely]

Zair is quite a douchebag.

This should be a given but always dodge it if you're off the edge. Nothing in the game can clank or win over that thing, except maybe counter moves, and they'll always be too far away from Samus to do anything.

In fact between bombs, missiles, zair edge hogging, zair and Samus spike, Ganon should never come back if he's off the edge, but that's off-topic.

Problem: Samus advances with unpunishable Zairs until you're within grabbing ranged. Then you get grabbed.
Solution: Don't stand there and shield the Zair. Get mobile. Meaning, like others have said, Taking to the air with lots of air dodging as necessary. Don't get predictable. Go backwards sometimes or something, I don't know. Some fights you have to think on your feet. This is one.

Problem: Samus camps with Zair. (**** it!)
Solution: This one is much harder because Samus controls the spacing. Your best bet is to advance with your safety being the number one priority. Shield at max Zair distance because any closer means you'll get punished for shielding. More air dodges. More spot dodges. Double jump surprise attacks work. Double jumps into air dodges into grabs work even better.

Overall, I wouldn't fret much about zair unless you're off the edge because that's when it will kill you. Dodge. Avoid.

Also, this goes for every character and probably has nothing to do with Zair actually, but if you find yourself somehow right next to Samus, a smash often does the trick. Many many opponents will spot dodge because of either a) they're expecting or otherwise afraid of a choke or b) they're used to being hit with faster attacks. I've killed countless people because they spotdodge into a forward or u-smash.

Anywho, always dodge off-stage zairs. And don't let on-stage zairs control the spacing. Don't mindlessly shield them or else you'll get punished silly.

 

[Z1GMA]

Nice write up, Squirrely.
You've got a few nice points there.

 

[Z1GMA]

BLIZZARD​

• Single/double Blizzard(s)
• Desync'd Blizzards

 

[stRIP]

How to deal with that move?

get *****.

 

[SmashBrosForce]

I use DJ -> Wizkick to avoid and attack from above.

I try to always Jump to avoid and give a Instant Aerial Attack.

This isn't the best way, but this is the only thing that I do to deal with Blizzard.

 

[stRIP]

I use DJ -> Wizkick to avoid and attack from above.

I try to always Jump to avoid and give a Instant Aerial Attack.

This isn't the best way, but this is the only thing that I do to deal with Blizzard.

You can do this ... maybe 1 time if the IC Player is smart

At your 2nd try he will just use 1 Blizzard and desynch his other Ice Climber to an Uair. Uair>aerial Wizkick

 

[SuSa]

Full hop dair if he desynchs with one climber doing an uair. Full hopped dair > uair. And hitting even 1 climber is good.

If he doesn't desynch, aerial wizkick actually works.

If he does it synched, but not 'dual blizzard' (each climber is facing a different direction) then I find full hop FF dair can work. (yes, sadly we have to deal with the lag)

 

[SmashBrosForce]

You can do this ... maybe 1 time if the IC Player is smart

At your 2nd try he will just use 1 Blizzard and desynch his other Ice Climber to an Uair. Uair>aerial Wizkick

It's Hard to deal with Blizzard.

Do you have any Tip stRIP ?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I was going to say "space D-tilt" but if that hitbox image is correct, then idunno. But seriously **** this matchup. D-tilt is the only move you can use anyway in this matchup.

 

[SuSa]

I was going to say "space D-tilt" but if that hitbox image is correct, then idunno. But seriously **** this matchup.

I just recognized your name from World 1-2, did we ever Brawl?

Also I don't think you are in A2.... lol


But uhm yah... **** this matchup hardcore. Ganon can't really approach, IC's can force an approach (especially if they just get a % lead and wait) and approaching = you get pretty easy to grab, grab = you lose a stock...

 

[PK-ow!]

Can anyone on our boards desync competently? Over WIFI?

I want to test this matchup. We can just have the Ganon kill himself if the Ice player gets a grab with both Climbers on standby.


And what the hell happened to shield (S)DI? There's a vid. You can see it happen. Why can't we do that ****?


Normal question: What do other characters do to 'answer' Blizzard? Jump over it?

 

[ItemfinderDeluxe]

Forget Blizzard, how about a move we can actually 'Dorf? Seriously though, it spaces, can hit under shields, finishes from the IC's (so there's still lingering hitbox before the Blizzard dissapates), the list goes on. The big problem though is that hitting just one IC is bad for Ganondorf, since the end-lag on his moves, and the nature of IC de-synching, allows the IC player to easily punish Ganondorf's lag.

Still, I've found for me that for some reason full-jumping, then back hopping into F-Air can hit Nana if they de-sych a U-Air. Perhaps it's just the people I play though. Also, one that did work for me before (once though, I might have gotten lucky) was full-jumping, then fast falling past Nana into a grab on Popo whilst Blizzard was finishing.

EDIT: PK-ow!, other characters can just use projectiles through it. Blizzard doesn't interact with projectiles, except for some things like Snake's grenades, Link's bombs, and Wario's bike. They talk about it in their Tech topic.

 

[SuSa]

@PK-ow! - I can but I'm at my mom's with no wii :/ also I'd just CG you. Why let you suicide? There is a chance I mess up.... (I'm as good at the CG's online as offline, if not better... yah, it's weird but I'm used to the slight input delay and I can adjust well to lag)

Also @itemfinder

Because you can 'Dorf this move. It just requires full hops rather then short hops. (something I've noticed a few of you don't look into)

Also we should discuss 'Dorfing Zamus's armour soon. That **** ***** for us if you play HRC. ID ADA's (that auto-cancel) are to good.

(SH > drop item > second jump almost instantly > pause > ada without fast falling > press A to catch item again.)

<3 love using that armour.... (I also do this with Diddy's bananas and ANY item I can get a hold off.... if it doesn't hit, it's great shield pressure. lol)

 

[Squirrely]

De-synched blizzards is what makes IC's unbeatable for me.
I have no clue how to get around it. And all the IC's know this.

Things that don't work:

Attacks
Non-attacks (shielding and dodging)
Planking
Running away
Standing still

Things that do work:

Yelling loudly and hoping he loses his concentration
Smacking the controller out of his hands
Physical violence
M1nD g4M3s

Yes I'm serious.
Also, I find it incredibly hard to full hop over it since while one is blizzarding on the ground, the other is flying into the air and is also using blizzard. So there's a huge wall of disjointed multi-hit pain coming at you and once you get hit with it once, the one who is not currently hitting you runs in and grabs and you lose. The end.

I'm almost positive you need a projectile, a mobile super armor, a Game and Watch, or a "counter" move (ike/marth/lucario down-b) to get around this.

The best way to 'Dorf a Blizzard is to punch your opponent in his face the second he picks IC's. Otherwise you bend over that barrel and take it.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I just recognized your name from World 1-2, did we ever Brawl?

Nope. I was so dissapointed...I was looking for an opportunity. You were a cool dude irl too lol...or wait...were you the snake I played after I played Ronin?

Yeah remember me? I was that one short skinny asian dude...NO not Flamewavek the Lucario main. I went after him in Crews. XD

 

[stRIP]

Can anyone on our boards desync competently? Over WIFI?

Z1GMA uses ICs as 2nds afaik but i dunno if he is able to desynch them that good for any tests

I could ask l!nk, he is an old clanpartner from me and he plays the best ICs in Germany (he lives in Austria but that doesnt matter)

just give me footage that i have to test and i will do it with him

 

[Z1GMA]

I honestly don't know how to deal with Blizzard.

I was going to say "space D-tilt" but if that hitbox image is correct, then idunno.

I used Blizzard after Blizzard on Ganon til it didn't connect anymore, so this pic is very accurate.
The vertical hitbox might be a little different though.

Z1GMA uses ICs as 2nds afaik but i dunno if he is able to desynch them that good for any tests

I don't 2nd them. Samus is my 2nd.
However, I can desync just perectly and 0-death over WIFI when playing against my countrymen since the buttonlag over here is only like 0,08 seconds.

But against you americans it's impossible since the buttonlag is like 0,6 seconds ^^

 

[PhantomX]

If you're up against desynch blizzard, you can 'Dorf the move by sparta kicking them in their crotch irl, otherwise you lose. If they DON'T desynch them, you can run into them and SDI close while in your shield (but far enough away to wear they can't grab you before you can tilt/jab).

 

[:034:]

Just wait until they stopped?

I played against an IC player online and counted every grab as a kill. He grabbed me five times and I couldn't do shiiiit. **** that match-up. I'm open for everything, Marth, Falco, MK, everything's fine with me except for those IC's...

I guess I can camp with Falco...

 

[PhantomX]

That would be a terrible idea... ICs **** Falco.

 

[stRIP]

That would be a terrible idea... ICs **** Falco.

this

learn2snake@fd

 

[SuSa]

That would be a terrible idea... ICs **** Falco.

This.

5lurn2Snake'sanywhere

<3

I don't care what people say. Snake's advantage. I just don't go "lawl. 65:35" in front of people because no one believes me.

Camp til you can't get CG'd. Then when that comes, camp anyways because Falco can't approach you if you simply crouch. Right as he SH's, if he's within IAP distance, mortarslide. It should hit him. Crouch again. Repeat. Eventually he'll stop camping. Then proceed to **** him.
Just don't get hit by fsmash, and properly DI everything else and you'll do fine.

 

[PhantomX]

SuSa, way to talk about the WRONG character with CGs. The ones at hand are the ICs.

I also think we should possibly try to cover moves that Ganondorf can actually POSSIBLY get around w/o getting ***** (like tornado, and unlike this).

 

[:034:]

this

learn2snake@fd

My Snake is bad though ;__; Oh well. I'll see it when I actually play against an IC player.

 

[SuSa]

SuSa, way to talk about the WRONG character with CGs. The ones at hand are the ICs.

I also think we should possibly try to cover moves that Ganondorf can actually POSSIBLY get around w/o getting ***** (like tornado, and unlike this).

Woopsies.

10stillsnake'sandcamplikehellandstayneargrenadesandspamftilt/utiltandontgetgrabbed

<_<

Snake can actually not get grabbed.... lmao

 

[MoblinMan]

One time I jumped over a kirby's final cutter with CF and Paunched him in the face as it finished.

was pretty epic.


OH so ummmmmmmm

idk. Snake's F tilt/mortarslide?

especially the spam version of these.

That I could really use help with

I think

if we're done with this move

and didn't have anything else in mind

let's talk about that.

 

[Breezy]

I've never even played a good IC before <_<

 

[Zajice]

OH so ummmmmmmm

idk. Snake's F tilt/mortarslide?

especially the spam version of these.

That I could really use help with

Are you implying something about me?

 

[MoblinMan]

Are you implying something about me?

Of course not.... This is for all the other Snakes I play

 

[Zajice]

Of course not.... This is for all the other Snakes I play

Hmm... right...

I'm watching you. >_>

 

[stRIP]

Z1GMA could you just end the BLIZZARD discussion and use this picture?

http://www.yorapper.com/Photos/you-gonna-get-*****-yorapper.jpg

 

[@HomE]

We should discuss Snake F-tilt. One of my friends just walks about using F-tilt the whole time until he knocks me away and then uses Nikita, srsly those 2 moves alone (if used right) **** Ganon...