NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Man, I really need to start thinking of threads like this on my own. XDSomeone make a How to deal with/punish
like this thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255258
I dont like managing threads just like pushing ideas for activity also someone should quote this in the OP =p
edit - .. Double post
TORNADO
Moves that beat Tornado: D-smash, grab, down-b.
Moves that SOMETIMES beat Tornado: Bair, uair, dair, fair, Side-B. (It seems basically anything can.)
General tactics:
From what I know many metaknights will move their nado away if they have time and they forsee the D-smash and Down B kick
other then what has been mentioned running helps =X , I have yet to grab a meta out of nado
For positioning
If you right above the nado try to upair and the bottom hit box is probly gonna hit
If your to the left or right of nado I normaly use Down B to make their nado retreat
On the ground I tend to run if I have time / Sheild (almost always sheild up more of a habbit on my part)
edit - might add later gotta go for now
Hit tip, you can actually utilt during nado out of shield sometimes.
Just crawl under it if they go high and punish, if they go low punish the landing lag /nadosoez
Falco's Lasers
General tactics:
watch a falcos habits.
watch when he phantasms away, or if he does it at all. if he does you can bait it quite easily most of the time, if he doesn't theres often another option. (i.e. uair his aerial, usmash if he shdls again etc)
You have to basicly think you are ganon in this match up and mind game him
Crawl Backwards none of his lazors will hit your just in a bad position (I normaly Down B more or less a mind game)
Watch his patterns when he jumps make small progression
Slowly power sheild and take small steps dont be greedy
Plank Falco.
Snake's Grenades/TiltsI always keep at least one piece in the fight against falco. This pressures him and you can bait his down B, and punish the cooldown with side B.
So after baiting falco's down B....
You can punish with side B(he is now in a bad position)
While still holding the piece throw it at him while he's in the air(Now he's even closer to the edge)
You can get in a dash attack and now you can bait his recovery.
General Tactics:
Okay, that was quick and easy.
This time, it's two different things.
SNake's Nades, and his tilts.
I want each of these to have a separate discussion, but it would feel stupid to have two different discussions of Snake. Post how you think we should deal with each of these moves!
Nades: Dodge them, and remember where they are. If the Snake doesn't force-drop them out of your hand, throw them back with an Air-Dodge-Cancelled-Item-Throw.
Tilts: Snake's d-tilt outranges every melee move we have, and his u-tilt comes close. All of them can be punished OOS with a d-tilt , a u-tilt or a DA depending on how far away you are from him. You can also grab his f-tilt and his u-tilt if they hit your sheild.
NannersNades: Counting the timer, or atleast getting a good feel for it, is essential. Know when to shield the nades actual physical damage and when to take it and punish Snake's throw animation. Learn to space around them if Snake is trying to nade counter in the air, it's not that difficult with our precise hitboxes. I'm not sure if this would be useful at all, but you can use down b footstool off a nade as a mixup approach
Tilts: Our utilt clanks with Snakes ftilt and then beats it (1 frame advantage) if you are both mashing them. Dsmash's disjoint can keep us safely out of range even if snake technically has more range on his f/dtilt, since his aren't as disjointed. Rising bairs work really well against Snake, and if you retreat them Snake cannot punish. It's generally a good strat against Snakes who like to walk and PS our midrange moves then punish with ftilt.
In general i feel like Snake is a fight where you absolutely cannot autopilot. You need to be focused at all times or you will get butt****ed. We can work around both the tilts and the nades but it takes precise spacing and quick thinking, moreso than most matchups
Out of a dash you can also stop yourself by pressing down, and then pressing A to pick up the banana. Not the fastest thing, but it works.
Or just run over to it, and air-dodge cancelled-item-throw to throw it at him.
Review the instant toss or some basic item stuff also Im to lazy to post stuff like that atm
Pick them up and throw them at him
SH AD.
Z Catch Oos.
Try mixing that kinda things up with Retreating Side B's.
I learned diddy too, really helpt my item game.
Wario's Waft
~1:00 Waft that can still kill you at low %s
~1:57 Waft that is fully charged (his head is the most powerful part)
They normally are predictable and a lot of the time after they have the 1:57~ mark they stay in that state and try and make you forget and fart later in the match (how can you forget a glowing wario)
When recovering watch out for his off stage game
I have see his nairs combo into fart but if you are at a high % you should have enough push back that it wouldn't matter
T-jolts.I definitely think wario is zss' favor actually but whatever.
There's not much here to figure out. Wario will look for patterns and punish you for them with early kills. If you aren't predictable that shouldn't happen.
You can use the hitlag on grounded TJ to extend the hit box of uair and hir pikachu on rise
So, we hit Pikachu with you? :3
I prefer fair when doing this. First hit smacks the jolt, second hit smash the rat.
At least when you cannot follow the uair up.
Uair, nair, PS. Really, this move is a lot less threatening than it looks like. It only does 8% if it hits you, but why would it ever hit you?
MK's Glide AttackWhen it's airborne, I'm pretty sure all of our aerials will not only beat it, but there will still be some animation after the move to spare. If spaced correctly (or rather, if the Pika misspaces a Jolt not keeping this fact in mind), you should be able to up-air both the jolt and Pika at the same time. If the Jolt is on the ground, powershielding is ideal.
Fair the **** out of it.
IC's grab. (Safe moves)
Bair, and wait for them to mess up.
And grab. Grab is good.
MK planking
Don't let him get the lead.
Pit's planking
D-smash/Dair his uair, and predict the arrow and punish.
Ness's/Lucas's PK Thunder
Hitting both of them cancels them out.
Aura Sphere
-I void spot dodging aura sphere as you normally get hit by it
-close range is a different story I tend to space upward or take my chances with getting hit and spot dodge without being to predictable
-once rollcario is about 110% aura just sheild all together and use an extra jump / down B to avoid getting hit as it has ridiculous knock back (this includes in the air)
-I never see lucario same small aura sphere balls any more but if they do just slowly approach and PS but watch out for ftilt that happens once your close enough
Not sure what aura % / stock level will neutralize aura sphere as my forward b as neutralized it once and possibly ( cant remember for sure ) over powered it
Just jump over the aura sphere.
You can bair through fully charged AS when Lucario is at least at 70%. Otherwise, it's not all that fast. You can PS it, jump over it, whatever you feel like doing to avoid it.
Sheik's Needles and f-tilt.Wait you can bair an AS? LOL
Yeah AS is not hard to powershield, it's pretty useless in a neutral setting. I play Stauffy a fair bit and the main times he uses it to good effect is either when im landing without jumps, in which case I have to eat it or down b if he times it right, and then he tries to punish the down b, or when im recovering offstage he'll use it to force an air dodge or punish a side b tether and proceed to edge guard
Sheik's f-tilt is dead easy to avoid, if you get caught I SDI upwards and bounce out after the second/first hit, try mix up the bounce direction otherwise it'll be baited.
If you're on the ground shielding, u-tilt or f-tilt is fast enough. Only f-tilt at medium percentages, or angle it downwards. And only u-tilt if you certain they'll try f-tilt again for pressure. U-tilt is the better imo.
Needles are frustrating, you just gotta bait them as volc. said. If you do get hit, anticipate a DACUS as most sheik players would do since it's hard to punish. Oh and about DACUS, never shorthop approach a sheik because they'll just DACUS sweetspot your sorry ***.
EDIT: You can also u-air out of it sometimes.
Pit's Arrows
DISCUSS!
Also, <3 sole.