How to deal with X move thread. (Pit's Arrows)

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Depends on where Nana is :3 btw i thought we could downb out of the sopo chaingrab

 

[Zero]

If they buffer it we can't. If they screw up even a little bit, we can.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

basically if you get PS'd you lose a stock. lol

 

[Zero]

No. Mash out. Buffer mashing should get you out until like 80%.

 

[solecalibur]

basically if you get PS'd you lose a stock. lol

There grab range is almost as bad as zelda's it isnt that black and white

 

[TheRockSays]

Well we just have to keep distances with side b>Dsmash>side B and maybe another whip well it all depends how aggressive an IC player is. I would not use down tilt cause they can power shield it.

 

[Nefarious B]

There grab range is almost as bad as zelda's it isnt that black and white

Zelda has excellent grab range, it's the startup time that makes it sucky

Well we just have to keep distances with side b>Dsmash>side B and maybe another whip well it all depends how aggressive an IC player is. I would not use down tilt cause they can power shield it.

Ah so PSing is the reason why we should use side b and dsmash, and not dtilt. Gotcha

 

[ph00tbag]

Popo PS > Nana's normal shield = getting grabbed. At low % ICs have a so-po CG on us, so Nana catches up to him.
Then the fun begins.

How would Nana normal shield? I thought the lag between them was longer than the window for a PS. Wouldn't Nana get hit?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

If Popo PS's Nana lags behind, so she can't PS. it would be popo normal and nana PS, but that wouldnt matter.

@phootbag, master of reading

 

[NickRiddle]

How would Nana normal shield? I thought the lag between them was longer than the window for a PS. Wouldn't Nana get hit?

o.o
It appears I said it backwards. ^^,
Popo normal shields, Nana PSs, and you can get grabbed by things.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I feel ignored

 

[solecalibur]

how stupid of an idea is it to platform camp until they come up with an uair and we punish with dsmash or something else(if they come out of range I just shield) (im also standing in the middle of platform so I dont get knocked down)
/some what unrelated

 

[ph00tbag]

o.o
It appears I said it backwards. ^^,
Popo normal shields, Nana PSs, and you can get grabbed by things.

Wouldn't there be too much pushback if Popo normal shielded?

how stupid of an idea is it to platform camp until they come up with an uair and we punish with dsmash or something else(if they come out of range I just shield) (im also standing in the middle of platform so I dont get knocked down)
/some what unrelated

Bad idea. Do you know how big IC's uair is? It's really big.

 

[NickRiddle]

Yeah... playing with our IC main made it seem like bair really is our only safe move...

So, asking again.
What should the next one be?

 

[TheRockSays]

chain grabs in general?

 

[solecalibur]

We could probly just have a short discussion in general chat about chain grabs like the correct way to get out of a chain grab and not just mash buttons and hope for the best

D3's Bair?
Rolling punishments? (lucario and non lucarios?)
Zss control set up? (Tap on or off , Jump/attack set to L or R , Remove springs etc)
Planking when to dsmash how to space (I could get images)? (G&W, MK, Pit, etc) (-- recommend this

 

[Blacknight99923]

add marths fair to teh list of things to avoid.


if you anticipate his jump i would think your fair COULD beat marths (speed wise)but i don't play the MU enough to know

 

[NickRiddle]

We could probly just have a short discussion in general chat about chain grabs like the correct way to get out of a chain grab and not just mash buttons and hope for the best

Pikachu's: Get ****ed.
Falco's: Buffer a down-B
Do other people CG us? /forget

D3's Bair?
On shield: OOS bair
On whiff: Bair
Rolling punishments? (lucario and non lucarios?)
U-tilt if they roll through you.
Zss control set up? (Tap on or off , Jump/attack set to L or R , Remove springs etc.
Planking when to dsmash how to space (I could get images)? (G&W, MK, Pit, etc) (-- recommend this

The setup isn't really a move, but I guess a small discussion on that would work. The planking thing would also.

add marths fair to teh list of things to avoid.


if you anticipate his jump i would think your fair COULD beat marths (speed wise)but i don't play the MU enough to know

Landing fair: Grab/OOS d-tilt/OOS DA
SH fair: OOS bair/OOS uair

 

[Nefarious B]

Landing SHFF fair has -4 advantage on block. If you shield drop he has +2 ad. Grab is definitely not viable OOS against it, you can get dancing bladed or dolphin slashed easily. Marth can DS us always but obviusly that's risky if we stay shielded. If he is going for fair to grab we can utilt him OOS. Honestly fair to dancing blades is really solid pressure on us, we don't really have a good answer to it from what I can see because he can mix grabs and DS in

I don't really have experience against MK planking so I'll leave that to others

 

[Zero]

Speaking from experience vs Shaya, you can react to a DS > grab mixup really easily. Should be able to shield drop and counter with impunity.

 

[noradseven]

for marths Short hop forward air...PS it...or jab the startup to his jump. To punish dolphin slash, option select PS his first 2 hits if you did it right free d-tilt, if you guessed wrong ohh well your blocking XD. Otherwise try to make it whiff.

Against MK planking you got 2 options if your in a tournament sit just where he can't hit you with up B maybe jumping and baiting him to do something, and stall for time out, most rules result in automatch win for excessive edge planking if time runs out. I think that rule is kinda bull**** but whatever its there use it. Outside of that MK is vulnerable to d-smash when he is going upwards to the edge, its just more or less a guessing game, gotta be careful he doesn't warp though the stage and hit you though.

 

[solecalibur]

It works like 50% of the time but just crawl backwards towards the ledge then back (enough spacing for safe zone =p) more of a mind game if you really dont want to throw your stock away in fear of getting hit by his defensive game
/my way of having more fun then I should

But what you really need to do is space dsmash at the very tip of it's hitbox (dont just c stick it) and look for that 1 frame window (DMG's post says their is a 1 frame window to hit MK if he is planking correctly) if you miss your dsmash and MK is in position expect to get nado'd

 

[NickRiddle]

So... it's basically don't let MK get a lead.

Pit's planking now.

 

[solecalibur]

^^^ fun strat =(

Pits is quite a bit easier
-When pit first starts planking you can either go straight for the angled D-smash / Forward B but of course it takes time
-My strat when pits first start planking and its becoming hopeless for some reason, is to give them the advantage of recovering back on stage and if they dont just plank them yourself or find a location (platform wise) that the arrows won't hit you (if your in the lead)

 

[Nefarious B]

If the Pit's being predictable with their timing of ledge drop off arrow just power shield then walk off fair them before they snap back on. Since Pit lacks MK's dair and shuttle loop gimps this isn't quite as dangerous

 

[DMG]

What

For Down B... it depends. I was given wrong info earlier about how vulnerable he really is when trying to grab the edge with it, and someone said that it turns out it might be for just a frame or so. IDK it's really interesting some of the numbers the developers chose for these kinds of things.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I think you can dair through the uair and trade hits (obviously in your advantage), not sure though, and you would have to be VERY quick.

 

[NickRiddle]

PK Thunder time.
Both Ness and Lucas.
I couldn't think of anything else at the time.

This is referring to every instance of PK Thunder. While you're in the air, far away, or recovering.

DISCUSS!

Also, if you guys have any idea for what the next one should be, please PM me your suggestions.

 

[Dakpo]

I have played Vice grip a lot and the best/quickest way to get rid of Pk thunder is Uair. just hit it and its gone....next?

 

[Zero]

Are you serious?

It's not very hard to avoid, or shield, or attack. Next please.

Did we do Aura Sphere, or Link's projectiles? I think we should do Link's stuff.

 

[solecalibur]

-When ness or lucas does short hop and uses PK thunder they will fall in a free fall state if it does not hit something before they get past the ledge, usually not worth punishing but to just shield it unless your right next to them and just ftilt

-Lag when hitting things with recovery IE Weegee's mansion pillars, SV's balloon brinstar's two sides (cant think of the name) Brinstar's bubble etc JUST SHIELD IT UNTIL THEY ARE DONE

-When using it as a recovery sheild never bother using spot dodge as it seems to risky for me to miss

-When a Ness or Lucas is randomly doing PK thunder and it goes off screen expect that it is aiming at you or themselfs to hit themselves pretty straight forward

-This move is used often when Ness or Lucas wants to go after you off stage or vertically above you (further up) and get an extra 5-10% (what ever it does)

Lucas' PK thunder does extra hits and will not cancel until its duration is over or hits a object on the stage

Ness' PK thunder will cancel once it hits you once

 

[NickRiddle]

So... PK Thunder is easy... and Aura Sphere is hard... Okay.

Changing to blue ball then.

DISCUSS!

 

[Zero]

Aura Sphere isn't so much hard as much more common than PK Thunder.

 

[solecalibur]

-I void spot dodging aura sphere as you normally get hit by it
-close range is a different story I tend to space upward or take my chances with getting hit and spot dodge without being to predictable
-once rollcario is about 110% aura just sheild all together and use an extra jump / down B to avoid getting hit as it has ridiculous knock back (this includes in the air)
-I never see lucario same small aura sphere balls any more but if they do just slowly approach and PS but watch out for ftilt that happens once your close enough

Not sure what aura % / stock level will neutralize aura sphere as my forward b as neutralized it once and possibly ( cant remember for sure ) over powered it

 

[noradseven]

How is Aura sphere hard to dodge at all, just block it, its not falcos lasers where you hardly get any time between shots.

Ness PK thunder is a joke...lucas PK thunder can be nasty against a good lucas, that knows how to abuse the tail, but really just learn how to DI really well and you will only take 3-4% damage, if you do get hit.

 

[xxpatgxx]

Just jump over the aura sphere.

 

[ph00tbag]

You can bair through fully charged AS when Lucario is at least at 70%. Otherwise, it's not all that fast. You can PS it, jump over it, whatever you feel like doing to avoid it.

 

[Nefarious B]

Wait you can bair an AS? LOL

Yeah AS is not hard to powershield, it's pretty useless in a neutral setting. I play Stauffy a fair bit and the main times he uses it to good effect is either when im landing without jumps, in which case I have to eat it or down b if he times it right, and then he tries to punish the down b, or when im recovering offstage he'll use it to force an air dodge or punish a side b tether and proceed to edge guard

 

[rPSIvysaur]

How is Aura sphere hard to dodge at all, just block it, its not falcos lasers where you hardly get any time between shots.

Ness PK thunder is a joke...lucas PK thunder can be nasty against a good lucas, that knows how to abuse the tail, but really just learn how to DI really well and you will only take 3-4% damage, if you do get hit.

Other way around please.

 

[NickRiddle]

Woah, I posted in my own thread? Unreal!
Next?
Seriously, there have to be other moves that annoy you guys.