How to deal with X move thread. (Pit's Arrows)

[Nefarious B]

Next. I feel like nanners is essentially just a diddy kong matchup discussion, so maybe fart or DDD/Olimar grabs? Marth's fair/DB?

 

[NickRiddle]

Nanners is up.
Updating my other thread too. :D


So, for these things, you should take control of them, and put them behind you/Diddy. Throwing them offstage lets Diddy pull another one faster than letting it vanish on it's own. A good thing to do, is smash-throw it up far away, and then continue the fight.

Or, you could infinite Diddy with one.

Take your pick. :3

 

[Nefarious B]

When both people have a nanner on even ground, it really is just a waiting game. We can both punish each other for anything in that situation with a GT OOS, so just don't do anything and hope the diddy makes the first move. If he popguns you can GT (watch out for getting baited with a popgun cancel though), if he GTs first let it hit your shield then GT. Dsmash. Learn the infinite, this is one you really should learn unlike ROBs which is kinda questionable utility wise.

 

[Adapt]

I tend to remove one and take control of the other. We, as ZSS mains, should have excellent item control so it really helps in this match. Diddy's dash attack is definitely better to pick them up though. Our's has a bit too much cooldown. I prefer to grab them while in the air

 

[James Sparrow]

zss ****ing owns with bananas.

 

[NickRiddle]

I tend to remove one and take control of the other. We, as ZSS mains, should have excellent item control so it really helps in this match. Diddy's dash attack is definitely better to pick them up though. Our's has a bit too much cooldown. I prefer to grab them while in the air

Out of a dash you can also stop yourself by pressing down, and then pressing A to pick up the banana. Not the fastest thing, but it works.
Or just run over to it, and air-dodge cancelled-item-throw to throw it at him.

 

[solecalibur]

Review the instant toss or some basic item stuff also Im to lazy to post stuff like that atm

 

[Rybaia]

Out of a dash you can also stop yourself by pressing down, and then pressing A to pick up the banana. Not the fastest thing, but it works.

I usually do this to pick up items on the ground, but I think that we can't do it if the naner isn't our control.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Pick them up and throw them at him

 

[solecalibur]

Im learning how to play diddy to really get this down because if you accomplish that diddys wont give you that many issues in the future

 

[Dumbfire]

SH AD.
Z Catch Oos.
Try mixing that kinda things up with Retreating Side B's.

I learned diddy too, really helpt my item game.

 

[NickRiddle]

Wario's Waft time!

There isn't much to look out for with this move, but I figure that some people get angry at it.

I forget the exact time for it to become the "strong" waft. I think it's like... ~1:15 - 150, or something like that.

The fully charged waft has super-armor on startup, and does stupid damage.
Also, when he uses the fully-charged one, if he hits you while going up it kills crazy early.

Discuss?

 

[Adapt]

iirc the stupidly powerful waft is from 1:30 to 1:59 (full charge after 2 mins)

as for this move.... don't be predictable. That will get you farted on

 

[solecalibur]

~1:00 Waft that can still kill you at low %s
~1:57 Waft that is fully charged (his head is the most powerful part)

They normally are predictable and a lot of the time after they have the 1:57~ mark they stay in that state and try and make you forget and fart later in the match (how can you forget a glowing wario)
When recovering watch out for his off stage game
I have see his nairs combo into fart but if you are at a high % you should have enough push back that it wouldn't matter

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

only reason this mu isnt in zero's favor

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I definitely think wario is zss' favor actually but whatever.

There's not much here to figure out. Wario will look for patterns and punish you for them with early kills. If you aren't predictable that shouldn't happen.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

its even imo, or 55:45 zero, but that isnt really an advantage imo

 

[NickRiddle]

The fart isn't much to discuss, and I basically just wanted the timer numbers.

Pikachu's Thunder-Jolt is up!

Moves beat it, PS wrecks it... just don't mess up, or enjoy the combo.

DISCUSS!

 

[ph00tbag]

Uair, nair, PS. Really, this move is a lot less threatening than it looks like. It only does 8% if it hits you, but why would it ever hit you?

 

[wWw Dazwa]

When it's airborne, I'm pretty sure all of our aerials will not only beat it, but there will still be some animation after the move to spare. If spaced correctly (or rather, if the Pika misspaces a Jolt not keeping this fact in mind), you should be able to up-air both the jolt and Pika at the same time. If the Jolt is on the ground, powershielding is ideal.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

You can use the hitlag on grounded TJ to extend the hit box of uair and hir pikachu on rise

 

[NickRiddle]

You can use the hitlag on grounded TJ to extend the hit box of uair and hir pikachu on rise

So, we hit Pikachu with you? :3

I prefer fair when doing this. First hit smacks the jolt, second hit smash the rat.
At least when you cannot follow the uair up.

 

[ph00tbag]

Extending hitboxes is why I like nair, because when that hits, you can usually do something with it.

Plus, it's the only move that hits downwards and in front of you.

 

[NickRiddle]

MK's Glide Attack time!

Well... testing this just now... any move that does at least 3% will ping with the glide attack. (Olimar's jab for example, even though the hitbox is on his body.)
So... that's like... everything but jab.
So, just hit it, since it is forced to ping with moves, and keep it going.
Fair is the best move to do this with IMO. The second hitbox hits MK.

DISCUSS!

 

[Nefarious B]

Just fair it everytime, there's no reason to do anything else. This is much more dangerous if the MK is smart about canceling and punishing our attempted punish

 

[solecalibur]

Its more timing then anything? I also agree Fair or bair if Im in the wrong direction sometimes >.>

 

[ph00tbag]

So basically, if an MK is gliding toward you, just space a fair, even if you don't think he's going to attack. If nothing else, it'll force him to respond.

 

[NickRiddle]

So basically, if an MK is gliding toward you, just space a fair, even if you don't think he's going to attack. If nothing else, it'll force him to respond.

Best case scenario, his glide-attack hits your first kick, and you hit him with the second.
Worst case scenario, you see him cancel the glide, and you pull away from him since his aerial mobility is ****ing terrible.

Don't randomly throw a fair out, just throw it out where MK HAS to do something or get hit.

 

[ph00tbag]

Best case scenario, his glide-attack hits your first kick, and you hit him with the second.
Worst case scenario, you see him cancel the glide, and you pull away from him since his aerial mobility is ****ing terrible.

Don't randomly throw a fair out, just throw it out where MK HAS to do something or get hit.

Yeah, I'm saying put the fair where he'd have to be to hit you with the glide attack, then back off if he doesn't go for it.

Although I can think of some situations where the fair would be unsafe (like close to the ground).

 

[NickRiddle]

Glide attack is done... what now?
Suggestions?

 

[solecalibur]

Ice Climbers grab as in moves that would move the shield enough that they cant shield grab you
or just plain avoiding the grab

edit - Main Falco vs ICs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh4SO9MhHqM

 

[Zero]

Phantasm!

So I can say jab/utilt it into any aerial of your choice.

 

[NickRiddle]

Bair. Perfectly spaced.
And paralyzer, but that doesn't count.
That's it IIRC.
Maybe a perfect nair, but it normally lags on Nana's shield too much, so they grab you.
If anybody knows anything else, please let me know. :D

 

[Zero]

Bair doesn't even have to be perfectly spaced in my experience. Their standard grab range really is garbage. Crossups are arguably more dangerous since their pivot grab range is fantastic.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

sideB spaced is pretty much safe, as nana can't powershield.

 

[NickRiddle]

sideB spaced is pretty much safe, as nana can't powershield.

Popo PS > Nana's normal shield = getting grabbed. At low % ICs have a so-po CG on us, so Nana catches up to him.
Then the fun begins.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

If Popo PS's Nana lags behind, so she can't PS. it would be popo normal and nana PS, but that wouldnt matter.

 

[NickRiddle]

If Popo PS's Nana lags behind, so she can't PS. it would be popo normal and nana PS, but that wouldnt matter.

It only doesn't matter if you're above like 50.
Otherwise Popo can CG us.

 

[Zero]

In a day and age where people are **** and IC are prevalent, people should have mashing out skills.

 

[NickRiddle]

In a day and age where people are **** and IC are prevalent, people should have mashing out skills.

Umm, if IC's don't mess up... mashing out does nothing.