How do I do a Barrel Roll? ~ Fox Q&A (Check the OP)

[Uzima (Uzi)]

I still have one answer that hasn't been respond

Each laser that fox fires in his dthrow, uthrow, and bthrow refresh one move or are just to deal more damage?

ok, this is what you do, I'd do it but im busy.

go to infistock match on FD fox vs jigs.

first laser spam till at perfect fresh up-smash death percent.
now you know that percent

now, you up-smash spam till death is achieved.
now you know that percent.


now the harder part.

find out exactly how much damage an up-throw does, and how many lasers hit.

now take this percent, and minus it from your stale up-smash kill percent,

and stale the move to that percent, then use an up-throw and see if it kills.

you should be able to tell that jiggs went faster through the air or not,
but we want to be specific.


ok, now you slowly lower the starting percent on jiggs(before you grab) till it just barely kills her.
now you know your up-throw reset kill percent.

now what you do it count the amount of damage you get from the same number of lasers as total hits from the up-throw, and remove that from your stale-upsmash, upthrow, percent.
and use up-smashes to get their-(lasers before the up-smashes to get it at a flawless percent)

now you use the lasers to get this percent to the final up-smash up-throw- kill percent.

now up-smash her.


if she just barely dies you know it resets the counter.

but if she fly's up way faster you know that the lasers with grabs do nothing.

 

[Robfox]

Whats the best controller setup for SHTL?

I use (now bare with me I play with my thumb + pointing finger on the analog) X to jump, L for ONE laser, B for the other two. So I have L set to special and use it for the first laser only, but U being a thumb only player try using L for all 3 lasers.

I'm in the same boat your in, I only ever camp good when I'm in the heat of battle. Can't help you but I'd guess practice makes perfect.

ALWAYS REMEMBER JUMP 1ST DONT TRY TO PRESS JUMP + SPECIAL @ THE SAME TIME
Nd dont button mash 4biddin WTF dnt tell them that lol
find your configurations most comfortable nd practice........since im here

I need help reverse SHTL.....as U guys can C my configurations aren't normal lol any ideas?

 

[Kuares]

I need help reverse SHTL.....as U guys can C my configurations aren't normal lol any ideas?

RAR it! Dash some direction then flick the control stick the other direction and triple laser.

 

[Robfox]

RAR it! Dash some direction then flick the control stick the other direction and triple laser.

lol I think you read it wrong
I know how to reverse SHTL I jus need help because of my button configuration
thnkz tho

 

[freeshooterxigbar2]

How do you cancel a dash attack to shine? I remember seeing a video about it but I cant find it so does anyone know what I'm talking about?

 

[Dakrah]

lol I think you read it wrong
I know how to reverse SHTL I jus need help because of my button configuration
thnkz tho

Well what do you need help with? If it's configuration, I use Y as jump and X as special (if you use X for jump, just put Y as special) and then I have the special button in close proximity. That way, after the RAR, I can just jump and triple laser. Of course, it takes a little practice to stop accidentally Illusion-ing whenever you try to Reverse SHTL! Either way, tell me if this answers your question; if it doesn't, exactly what were you asking?

 

[Zephil]

^ I like this guy

I do the same thing, actually I recommend all foxes to do the same thing.

Changing X to specials open a lot of possibilities.

SHTL IMO is easier with this configuration because of the proximity of the jump and special buttons, but this is only one of the tricks you can do with this configuration

How do you cancel a dash attack to shine? I remember seeing a video about it but I cant find it so does anyone know what I'm talking about?

The way to cancel a dash attack to shine is to run jump cancel and shine immediately. The timing with the normal configuration is really hard so thats why I also think X as special makes things easier. If you have the configuration like I say the way to cancel the dash attack to shine is like this: run ->jump and immediately down X but you have to be very precise with it or can make a huge mistake and make an illusion instead of the shine.

I will try to make a video if there is a chance to explain it better and maybe I am going to make a thread about how awesome is to use X as specials

 

[freeshooterxigbar2]

Well I use X to jump and have Y as special mostly because of SHTL. I think I get what youre saying but a video would help. Thanks.

 

[luke_atyeo]

looks like theres a bit of confusion going on here,
do you mean cancel dash to shine or dash ATTACK to shine?

 

[Dakrah]

looks like theres a bit of confusion going on here,
do you mean cancel dash to shine or dash ATTACK to shine?

Exactly what I was thinking. I was never aware of, and am pretty sure there isn't, any dash ATTACK cancel to shine, but what Zephil described is dash cancel to shine. Just like he said, basically dash, input a "jump" command, and shine -- simple as that.

 

[Cherry64]

Exactly what I was thinking. I was never aware of, and am pretty sure there isn't, any dash ATTACK cancel to shine, but what Zephil described is dash cancel to shine. Just like he said, basically dash, input a "jump" command, and shine -- simple as that.

Or you could run and then input Down+B and cancel your dash with a shine.

 

[luke_atyeo]

yeah thats what I was thinking, cause the original question was dash ATTACK cancel which doesnt exsist as far as I am aware, probably just a typo

 

[Cherry64]

yeah thats what I was thinking, cause the original question was dash ATTACK cancel which doesnt exsist as far as I am aware, probably just a typo

What would that even accomplish, like a DAC Shine? Shine stops momentum...

what is this, I don't even...

 

[Dakrah]

What would that even accomplish, like a DAC Shine? Shine stops momentum...

what is this, I don't even...

Well, although shine stops momentum, the purpose of a jump-canceled shine is to be able to cancel momentum during a fox trot. As you probably already know, you don't have many options during a fox trot; your only real available options are dash attack, up smash, and jump. Doing the jump-cancel during the fox trot and shining will do something called a wave shine, which is a nice mix-up option when in range.

 

[Zephil]

The only reasons to use shine after a dash attack is to reflect projectiles and to caught off guard an opponent but is risky. This technique is amazing vs diddy you have no idea. When you approach a diddy with a banana the people will think you are mad and the most probable is that they will throw you a banana, if you the DACS (lol I like the name) the shine appears faster and is very easy to reflect any projectile this way: running trying to bait the opponent that you are going to approach him -> opponent throws any projectile -> DACS reflects it. You don't know how many times I have baited Lucario to throw the Aura Sphere and then I reflect right into his face like this. So if you read correctly you don't hit the opponent with DACS, is just for bait purposes most of the time.

The other way to use it is to HIT with DACS but is more risky but if you actually do it you can get some sweet followups depending of the opponent. If you caught of guard somebody and hit with DACS at some % (I have to investigate that or if somebody can do it) the shine will make the opponent bounce with the floor and let you follow up if you react faster than the opponent teching you can do a dash attack and then a nair

right now I am studying so I am going yo check my recent videos later to see if I have examples of the way to use it, for now I hope you can understand what I am trying to say

 

[freeshooterxigbar2]

I'd like to apologize for causing so much confusion/fights. Sorry I understand what your saying.

Anyway I dont want to make a new thread about this but I do like to help and contribute so I'll say it here since it is sort of a question.

I was playing around in training and I was wondering if anyone here has tried/discovered(?) this. I did shine to stutter step fsmash. I dont know if its a true combo or anything but I'm new to the boards so I dont know whats already been said/discovered. Also Double short hop Uair seems very useful on BF lower platforms and its hard to escape. Again sorry if this is old news or something.

 

[Omni]

1.) Is Fox's DJJ just as good as Falco's DJJ?

2.) What are Fox's Top 3 best match-ups? Top 3 worst match-ups? (Top, high, and mid tier characters)

3.) For Fox's DJJ do you press down on the control stick after the first jab or after the second? I sometimes get the AAA after a pause when I attempt to grab afterwards.

4.) I read somewhere about Fox's boost grab and pivot grabs. Are these specifically useful in anyway compared to his regular dash pivot grab?

5.) Which of Fox's aerials do the most amount of shield stun? Is that b-air?

6.) Why exactly can't Fox do IAP like Falco?

7.) How many frames is up-tilt?

8.) What stages should I ban (in general) when using Fox? What would be a good counterpick for Fox?

a lot more should be coming soon. make sure u guys critique my vids!

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

1.) Is Fox's DJJ just as good as Falco's DJJ?

2.) What are Fox's Top 3 best match-ups? Top 3 worst match-ups? (Top, high, and mid tier characters)

3.) For Fox's DJJ do you press down on the control stick after the first jab or after the second? I sometimes get the AAA after a pause when I attempt to grab afterwards.

4.) I read somewhere about Fox's boost grab and pivot grabs. Are these specifically useful in anyway compared to his regular dash pivot grab?

5.) Which of Fox's aerials do the most amount of shield stun? Is that b-air?

6.) Why exactly can't Fox do IAP like Falco?

7.) How many frames is up-tilt?

8.) What stages should I ban (in general) when using Fox? What would be a good counterpick for Fox?

a lot more should be coming soon. make sure u guys critique my vids!

1. im pretty sure ours is a tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiny bit better.

3. you hold the A button until the second hit, and press down right as it connects and let go of A.

4. his boost pivot grab is AMAZING!, learn it, insta speedy turning slidy grab.

one of the best in the game, amazing at separating ice climbers, and a ton of other stuff.

5. ima go ahead and agree, its gotta be bair.

7.U-tilt

* Start-up 1-2 Fastest tilt
* Hit-on 3-10
* Cool-down 11-28
* IASA 28
* Damage (8, 10)
* Block Advantage -22
* Animation Duration 34


I'll leave the rest to those who know them better.

 

[luke_atyeo]

ban things that hinder your recovery mostly I think (recovery is probably the weakest part of foxs game)
so things like lylat, frigate (I kinda like frigate though), delphino, etc.

as for cp, fd and bf should cover most matchups I think, pictochat is an alternative to fd if your comfatable there and if your region allows it.
halberd can be good too.

 

[Dakrah]

6.) Why exactly can't Fox do IAP like Falco?

Because it's not a phantasm, it's an illusion!

Lol okay, seriously now, there's many ways I can interpret this question, so I'll just answer it in every way that I can. If you're asking why he CANNOT do it, then that's false. Fox actually is capable of doing it. HOWEVER, if you try to time it like Falco's, you'll be doing the Illusion before Fox actually jumps, effectively making it seem like it doesn't exist. If you want to perform it, the timing is a tiny bit delayed and rather strict.

If you already knew that, then you might be asking why it's not as good, because it really isn't. It has to do with the fact that it takes a tiny bit longer, what with the jump being a bit more delayed, and that Fox's illusion has more start up time than Falco's Phantasm.

Although come to think of it, just because it's not as good doesn't mean it shouldn't be incorporated somehow into our metagame. Granted, it's much more difficult to do what with the timing of it, but it can be worth the practice. I think I'll look into it, thanks for bringing it to my awareness!

Hope this answered your question!

 

[Omni]

you guys answered my questions to full satisfactory

 

[Talon]

Okay here's mine.I seem to be having the hardest time getting the hang of SHTL.I've seen it done many times and have tried practicing it but can only succeed out of random impulse. I have all of his laser techs down but that one and it's a thorn in my *** if I can't perfect it. Any suggestions on what I may be doing wrong? I'm leaning more on me just timing the input wrong.

 

[Dakrah]

Okay here's mine.I seem to be having the hardest time getting the hang of SHTL.I've seen it done many times and have tried practicing it but can only succeed out of random impulse. I have all of his laser techs down but that one and it's a thorn in my *** if I can't perfect it. Any suggestions on what I may be doing wrong? I'm leaning more on me just timing the input wrong.

Well you might benefit from changing your controller mapping. I know TKD uses the b button for special and shtl, but that actually is more difficult than if you change either x or y to special.

After doing that, if you even want to, the next step is getting the timing. You have to hit the first laser IMMEDIATELY after short hopping and then the next two. Of course only hit laser three times because if you hit it any more you'll shoot a laser upon landing. The actual timing is you press three times as fast as possible and it will feel like a small buffer before the lasers actually shoot.

In training mode, at first, don't try to do it so quickly and just do the hops one at a time. After you get the hang of he shtl, you'll feel much more comfortable speeding up the time between your hops.

Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[saviorslegacy]

@OP topic
That is a good question. The best way to do a barrel roll is to follow the example of this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JirQo50dHVQ&feature=related

 

[M@v]

1.) Is Fox's DJJ just as good as Falco's DJJ?

Falcos. It has way more range than fox's. Fox's is still very good though.

2.) What are Fox's Top 3 best match-ups? Top 3 worst match-ups? (Top, high, and mid tier characters)

Top 3 worst is Pika, sheik, and ice climbers.

top 3 Best imo would be Snake, ROB, and Im going to say Lucario.

3.) For Fox's DJJ do you press down on the control stick after the first jab or after the second? I sometimes get the AAA after a pause when I attempt to grab afterwards.

Correct.

4.) I read somewhere about Fox's boost grab and pivot grabs. Are these specifically useful in anyway compared to his regular dash pivot grab?

Not much difference. You really can't tell a dacus from a sliding upsmash. Theres a bit of a difference with a boost pivot grab though. Fox has one of the best ones IMO.

5.) Which of Fox's aerials do the most amount of shield stun? Is that b-air?

Yeah. It also pushes them back a bit,

6.) Why exactly can't Fox do IAP like Falco?

For some reason, when you input IAP with fox, he starts off in the air like falco, but ends on the ground. I feel if you can wait a few milliseconds after jumping, THEN doing the sideb, fox might able to do an IAP, but it would be slightly slower than Falco's.

7.) How many frames is up-tilt?

I believe its a 3 frame startup if I remember right. Uzi put the whole data.

8.) What stages should I ban (in general) when using Fox? What would be a good counterpick for Fox?

Pretty much the same stages as you would with Falco(I.E brinstar). Rainbow cruise isn't that bad tbh though. If luigi's mansion is legal for some dumb reason, ban it.

Counterpicks:
Halberd: My favorite stage with fox and an amazing counterpick. I still personally feel its his best stage. I can go into reasonings later.

FD: Obvious reasons

Stadium 1: Flat like FD, and fox has a shine wall infinite.(On that note, any place with a wall infinite, fox can shine wall infinite).

Bf: Balanced stage. Similar benefits to what falco gets for going here. Not as strong as the other stages imo.

Frigate: Same reasons as falco. Second stage its almost impossible to get to fox safely while he's camping the center, just like Falco.

a lot more should be coming soon. make sure u guys critique my vids!

 

[Omni]

hmmm.

so up-tilt is the fastest tilt in the game? interesting.

1.) how many frames does his standing grab come out in?
2.) how much frame of recovery is in his landing lag?
3.) when you're doing DJJ do you hold down or can you just press down to cancel it?
4.) is it me or does f-tilt suck (especially compared to Falco)?
5.) how do you do that running pivot upsmash thingy?

 

[Spelt]

hmmm.

so up-tilt is the fastest tilt in the game? interesting.

1.) how many frames does his standing grab come out in?
2.) how much frame of recovery is in his landing lag?
3.) when you're doing DJJ do you hold down or can you just press down to cancel it?
4.) is it me or does f-tilt suck (especially compared to Falco)?
5.) how do you do that running pivot upsmash thingy?

1. 6, I think. Like most grabs
2. Dunno.
3. Press down
4. I think ftilt is fine, but he has better options most of the time.
5. Do whatever you do to do a RAR'd aerial, but cancel the jump with an usmash

 

[Cherry64]

running pivot usmash thingy I use Z as the attack button. seems easiest that way, and yeah run, turn around and jump but cnacel the jump with an usmash.

 

[Talon]

Well you might benefit from changing your controller mapping. I know TKD uses the b button for special and shtl, but that actually is more difficult than if you change either x or y to special.

After doing that, if you even want to, the next step is getting the timing. You have to hit the first laser IMMEDIATELY after short hopping and then the next two. Of course only hit laser three times because if you hit it any more you'll shoot a laser upon landing. The actual timing is you press three times as fast as possible and it will feel like a small buffer before the lasers actually shoot.

In training mode, at first, don't try to do it so quickly and just do the hops one at a time. After you get the hang of he shtl, you'll feel much more comfortable speeding up the time between your hops.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Sweet. I'm actually gonna practice that now.I wish I could give a decent footage of my Fox so that I could have reliable feedback on what I should work on or something I''m not implying to his metagame.I'm usually brawling with Iori and IHSB most of the time so I'm pretty a pretty decent brawler (need more help in melee. >_<). Once I save up to get a camera or catch up to one of them,I'll see about a recording so the fox community could help me out. And thanks for the info btw.

 

[luke_atyeo]

3.) For Fox's DJJ do you press down on the control stick after the first jab or after the second? I sometimes get the AAA after a pause when I attempt to grab afterwards.

Correct.

lol, good one

 

[M@v]

.

Its after the second one.

 

[WacasJP]

I read the Fox punish thread somewhere and what does it mean to be 'on whiff'?

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

I read the Fox punish thread somewhere and what does it mean to be 'on whiff'?

when its an attack that doesnt actually hit, it makes a tinny tsch noise and has a small animation, but its basically as close to getting hit as physicaly possible.

 

[crifer]

We can usmash stage spike yoshi on FD

 

[JUDGE]

LOOOL

DI
7s <33

 

[Conviction]

LOL that's too good!!!

Also I got a question.

What height when you full jump will your Dair be AC'd? I thought it might be nice to apply against Airdodgers when they are at full jump height.

And ummm....

Is Bair>Dair a viable frametrap when Bair is AC'd properly?
How much slower is Fox's ISAP compared to Falco's?

 

[LiNKoMAC]

How many options do I have with Fox's Down-B/Shine?

 

[Conviction]

When is someone going to finally answer my questions? :'(

 

[C.R.Z]

LOL that's too good!!!

Also I got a question.

What height when you full jump will your Dair be AC'd? I thought it might be nice to apply against Airdodgers when they are at full jump height.

And ummm....

Is Bair>Dair a viable frametrap when Bair is AC'd properly?
How much slower is Fox's ISAP compared to Falco's?

your first question i cant really answer, i would test it for you but im not near a wii atm. should be fairly easy to test in training mode though.

i dont think AC bair frame traps into drill. this is because jump is 4 frames and im pretty sure drill doesnt come out very quickly when compared with other options(would have to check frame data). its safer to grab or uptilt in my opinion.

i have no idea about the 3rd question, sorry .

How many options do I have with Fox's Down-B/Shine?

this is a good question. Alot of fox players dont use shine often in their matches because it can be situational or there can be safer options.

its good to know that shine hits on frame 3, this means it is your fastest aerial but the hit box is quite small.

with shine you can combo it after a double jab cancel or from a drill. (look at uzimakisensei's guide for more info.)

shine spike is a given, but can be risky and wont work with one hit against some characters.

its hard to answer this question because you havent asked anything specific. I guess the answer to your question is "a few options." look into the fox guides, they will explain more.

 

[LiNKoMAC]

this is a good question. Alot of fox players dont use shine often in their matches because it can be situational or there can be safer options.

its good to know that shine hits on frame 3, this means it is your fastest aerial but the hit box is quite small.

with shine you can combo it after a double jab cancel or from a drill. (look at uzimakisensei's guide for more info.)

shine spike is a given, but can be risky and wont work with one hit against some characters.

its hard to answer this question because you havent asked anything specific. I guess the answer to your question is "a few options." look into the fox guides, they will explain more.

That's the exact answer I was looking for. Thanks.

One more thing, is it a good mind game to stall with the shine?