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How do I do a Barrel Roll? ~ Fox Q&A (Check the OP)

RPK

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
1,710
Location
Santa Clara, California
Thats not even that fast o.O Hell, you got a lot of time to perform it. After I do it, I usually have enough time to buffer a dash in the opposite direction to help prep my next retreating SHTL. You have a lot more time to do it than you think. Essentially Y and B have to be pressed at the same time for the first laser then B two more times. One fired when rising, one at the peak, and one when falling. I think you should have everything finished up before the 1st laser even comes out. Or maybe as soon as the first one comes out...I unno. But yeah, you've got a lot of time. Your just making it seem faster than it really is.
 

crifer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
1,078
Location
Germany, Koblenz
Thats not even that fast o.O Hell, you got a lot of time to perform it. After I do it, I usually have enough time to buffer a dash in the opposite direction to help prep my next retreating SHTL. You have a lot more time to do it than you think. Essentially Y and B have to be pressed at the same time for the first laser then B two more times. One fired when rising, one at the peak, and one when falling. I think you should have everything finished up before the 1st laser even comes out. Or maybe as soon as the first one comes out...I unno. But yeah, you've got a lot of time. Your just making it seem faster than it really is.
True.
Especially if you did the first laser...there is so much time to perform the other two...
Just try to change you habit how you do the SHTL, I did it with L 3 months ago, too until I realized that sliding from Y to B is much easier to learn overall and helps to do it more consistently. Also, it´s misconception to think "It´s easier to use two hands to input two actions" -> If you use two hands you have to synchronize two hands at each other, if you use one hand you just have to "control" one hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43hyRH95N3U
 

Conviction

Human Nature
Joined
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Kennesaw, Georgia
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Ughh...I'm soo tempted to learn how to B-Reverse SHTL it looks like it could be useful at mid-ranges. I just might need some drive to learn it lol. I spent time learning things I thought would be useless.

*Starts to invest time into this*

Oh what do you guys think about Fox and true pivoting? I think it could useful for quickly readjusting space, or punishing approaches if you retreat with it.

Oh could some one run me some universal ATs that they find useful for Fox. I might have overlooked something.
 

Robfox

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
1,120
Location
Lancaster PA, Campin away wit Fox & TL
Thats not even that fast o.O Hell, you got a lot of time to perform it. After I do it, I usually have enough time to buffer a dash in the opposite direction to help prep my next retreating SHTL. You have a lot more time to do it than you think. Essentially Y and B have to be pressed at the same time for the first laser then B two more times. One fired when rising, one at the peak, and one when falling. I think you should have everything finished up before the 1st laser even comes out. Or maybe as soon as the first one comes out...I unno. But yeah, you've got a lot of time. Your just making it seem faster than it really is.
idk I guess it's jus me
ill practice wit Y nd B alone but it really is fast.
or maybe im jus 2 slow -__-
 

Kuares

Pizza
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
732
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"G-Ames?" Iowa
Iblis posted a question... -.-
I did alot of Pivot Fsmash´s as Roy in Melee. In brawl, true pivoting seems to be a pretty good thing for Marth but not so much for Fox . It´s such a small step that I don´t see it´s use.

Using that new Fox lasering is it possible to ledgecancel with that?
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
6,515
Location
UTAH
How does Fox do against MK, Snake, and ROb?

What is the best option to get out of tumble when hit off a platform while shielding.

Is it better to jab twice or jab once when jab canceling?

Is Foxs jab good? I don't see people use it that much

What is FOxs' best aerial for catching items or canceling projectiles? Nair?

What is the best aerial to use for DI'ing a vertical KO move?

Besides Halberd, FD, BF...what stages does Fox do well on? How does he do on Frigate Orpheon?

Someone with experience please give me a quick rundown of how to recover with Fox against high level players?

Answers would be much appreciated.
 

Uzima (Uzi)

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
1,680
Location
Colorado Springs
How does Fox do against MK, Snake, and ROb?

What is the best option to get out of tumble when hit off a platform while shielding.

Is it better to jab twice or jab once when jab canceling?

Is Foxs jab good? I don't see people use it that much

What is FOxs' best aerial for catching items or canceling projectiles? Nair?

What is the best aerial to use for DI'ing a vertical KO move?

Besides Halberd, FD, BF...what stages does Fox do well on? How does he do on Frigate Orpheon?

Someone with experience please give me a quick rundown of how to recover with Fox against high level players?

Answers would be much appreciated.

3. its very good, just tricky to use and fox mains are lazy, I support it 100%

7. shine stall, raising fair, falling slowed down fair, illussion cancel (both distances) etc

aside from knowing all those, its just experience on how to use them, honestly.
 

RPK

Smash Lord
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Aug 28, 2005
Messages
1,710
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Santa Clara, California
How does Fox do against MK, Snake, and ROb?
I know he does well against MK since that's what he's known for. Snake he is good against because once Snake is put into the air, he should stay up there. Uairs beat all of aerials except I think bair, but that can be baited out I suppose. Lasers and reflector (using it to make them explode when they get to you) keeps you safe from grenades unless theyve been cooked to blow right as they reach you. Then lasers should do the job well. ROB has the same problem. He is terrible when people are below him, so you pop him into the air, and keep him up there to build up damage. You can also take away his top and just go pew pew and there isnt much he can do besides shoot his laser. which you should see coming and then reflect it back.

What is the best option to get out of tumble when hit off a platform while shielding.
Despite it being something I should have thought of I haven't before. Probably Nair to the ground, air dodge, double jump fair, illusion away, from them,

Is it better to jab twice or jab once when jab canceling?
It depends. I heard itd be a good mix up when going in-between one and two. Some characters can be caught with JJC(Jab Jab Cancel) a few times because they're recovering from the 1-3 frames of lag that you get when you land on the ground.

Is Foxs jab good? I don't see people use it that much
Its nice, but it also has short range which is its downside imo. I don't use it that much because of that reason. However, it is 2 frames so it comes out ridiculously fast.

What is FOxs' best aerial for catching items or canceling projectiles? Nair?
There is a trick out now that allows you to catch items with air dodge, and your immediately back in neutral falling position as if nothing had ever happened. Quick catch I think it's called. It has been a few months and I'm not sure exactly how it works...But its best to do that then to do an aerial to catch items that are being thrown at you. In addition you can immediately throw it back after catching it if you wish.

What is the best aerial to use for DI'ing a vertical KO move?
Uair because it's his fastest aerial.

Besides Halberd, FD, BF...what stages does Fox do well on? How does he do on Frigate Orpheon?
He doesn't do too bad on Frigate Orpheon. Like Falco, he doesn't do too bad there because when the stage flips, it practically becomes FD but with a platform, and a slant. I think he does good on Yoshi's Island because again, it's like FD, but with a platform in the middle, but this time it moves around. Same with PS1, but the ledges are a bit troublesome if your not used to them. The same could be said for Lylat. It's nice against characters like Pikachu because it messed up his grab when the stage shifts around.

Someone with experience please give me a quick rundown of how to recover with Fox against high level players?
Like previously stated, shine stalling, illusion canceling, rising fair, and using his air dodge to quickly change your direction in the air. He has pretty good aerial mobility so use that to your advantage. Firefox is also good if you can master doing it at I believe 33 degrees is the proper angle or something like that. It basically extends the distance of his firefox, in addition it mixes up where your going to go, on stage, or onto the ledge.

Also, be aware of landing lag. For the love of god, BE AWARE OF IT!!! after doing an illusion, or firefox into the ledge, the next time you hit the ground, you'll experience 30 frames of landing lag, or a penalty as my friend calls it. Yeah, that bad. Even if you airdodge into the ground, or just plain land, you still receive a penalty . Also lets say you illusion onto the stage and someone jabs you out of it. Spoilers, you still get the penalty. So they have 30 frames to do whatever they want to you. DDD can even grab you out of it, down throw you, and land a FREE forward smash because of the penalty and there is nothing you can do if that were to happen. Again, only happens if you get hit out of your illusion, or firefox and land on the ground, or if you go into the ledge, the next time you land on the ground, or air dodge into the ground you'll get the penalty. Also if you were to do a get up attack, roll, or just get up normally from the ledge you still have the penalty on you so you've got to get rid of it as soon as you can.

How to get rid of penalty: Do an aerial into the ground. Preferably Nair for Fox. You still experience some of the penalty so you cant do Dair to anything on someone like normal unfortunately, but its better than experiencing that terrible lag right?

Only some characters experience this penalty and the list is a lot bigger than youd think. Here is a link to a blog that explains it in better detail, and gives a complete list of the characters that experience this penalty and what moves are required in order to experience it.
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=37415
 

JUDGE

Smash Lord
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
1,015
i think SHTL is overrated and shsl is underrated you guys think so too?^^
i see many foxes who desperately clinging onto implent it in to their gameplay
i mean its just a single laser more its not worth the effort if you do it with both handy
Y B is still the best method in my opinion

@iblis
i am trying to implent the true pivot in my game to, i think its the future of brawl since its like the new wavedash imo
but its so freaking hard :(
can you dash dance with it?
 

Conviction

Human Nature
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I haven't tried DDing with it yet sounds good. But I usually true pivot to mess with people's spacing and I punish with Jab,Dair,Usmash,etc. I love our initial dash speed and our speed in general.
 

JUDGE

Smash Lord
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
1,015
yeah i also try using it to punish approaches
i also thought of using dtilt since it has as much range as ftilt but it puts the opponent in a better postion for us
upsmash and dash attack also comboes after a dtilt but i don't know at which %s^^

how do you perform the turn around after the second dash of the true pivot?
do you tab the control stick soft or do you flick it fast and what is the better method?

sorry for my english xD
 

Robfox

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
1,120
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Lancaster PA, Campin away wit Fox & TL
Thats not even that fast o.O Hell, you got a lot of time to perform it. After I do it, I usually have enough time to buffer a dash in the opposite direction to help prep my next retreating SHTL. You have a lot more time to do it than you think. Essentially Y and B have to be pressed at the same time for the first laser then B two more times. One fired when rising, one at the peak, and one when falling. I think you should have everything finished up before the 1st laser even comes out. Or maybe as soon as the first one comes out...I unno. But yeah, you've got a lot of time. Your just making it seem faster than it really is.

O yea I also use X to jump, not Y.
I use Y for SH Mind games.........
EDIT - My configurations are as followed
L = Special (Uses Left middle finger for the 1ST laser)
R = Shield (Uses Right pointer finger)
Z = Grab (Uses Right pointer finger)
Y = Shield (Uses Righ Thumb)
X = Jump (Uses Right Thumb)
A+B = Normal
Tap off. pointer + Thumb on analog.
HELP
 

RPK

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,710
Location
Santa Clara, California
I use standard settings. No need to change anything. Though Im going to change the stuff on my D-pad to shield and jump for other non-related reasons.
 

_GrapE_

Smash Lord
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Mar 15, 2010
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Within BC somewhere
Why am I having such trouble with platform cancels on Battlefield but nowhere else? Is their a different method to doing it there or something?
 

Savon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
730
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New Orleans
How do I do the fancy short hop laser tricks that I see many experiences foxes doing?

Also, what is a good time to use the fair besides when I am trying to recover?

And finally, what is the best move for Fox to you use when I want to cancel momentum after being launched?
 

RPK

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
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Location
Santa Clara, California
So I was watching a video, this one... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX7-DGe4xS0
and I was wondering if that upsmash he does is safe on block...The one where you do a running upsmash and somehow end up really far behind them. Though you still hit their shield. Happens at about 3:34 on the 2nd video. Now we take that and do the reverse running upsmash so that instead of the back of the hitbox hitting, we hit with the hard portion...Unless you somehow hit with the hard part of the upsmash then nvm, but anyways...Would that make Upsmash into shield a much safer option? You hit their shield, and end up behind them instead of right in front of dems. We are a lot further from them after it is performed, out of grab range, Upsmash seems to have a good amount of shield stun so we'd have time to recover and they have to unshield and start a dash to try and reach us. Only things that could probably punish this are projectile attacks, buffered OoS dash attacks if they have the range, and i unno...Again, dont have a wii so I can't do much testing, but what do you guys think?
 

crifer

Smash Lord
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Jan 17, 2008
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Germany, Koblenz
I tried it out...and I get it to work rarely, I think more because the CPU (snake) in training mode ****ed up. It´s not guaranted at all, but it could work as suprise.
 

Chef Fox

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
169
When performing a short hop single laser, should I be fast falling the short hop or is the regular falling speed fine?
 

Chef Fox

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
169
Okay thank you, also, what is the benefit of knowing SHSL and SHDL timings? If I could perfect SHTL every single time, why use the other two?
 
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