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How do I do a Barrel Roll? ~ Fox Q&A (Check the OP)
- Thread starter ¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
- Start date
chaoechidna
Smash Apprentice
Hey guys, thanks for the ROB help, I'm going to beat the Ualbany ROB next time I see him..
But i have a question about fox momentum cancel. I read about the reverse shine momentum cancel and was wondering if it actually works. Most of the time reverse shining is the part that kills me for some reason. Like i Ffall my uair and then reverse shine, but i either die from going out too far at that point or from the slight upward boost that a shine gives when you've taken a hit. I bet i'd live if i just didn't reverse shine, but maybe im doing something wrong? Please help, i hate dying sooner than i should with fox.
But i have a question about fox momentum cancel. I read about the reverse shine momentum cancel and was wondering if it actually works. Most of the time reverse shining is the part that kills me for some reason. Like i Ffall my uair and then reverse shine, but i either die from going out too far at that point or from the slight upward boost that a shine gives when you've taken a hit. I bet i'd live if i just didn't reverse shine, but maybe im doing something wrong? Please help, i hate dying sooner than i should with fox.
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
Fox using a new Brawl AT- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obXNADBzbto
Every character can use it but Fox is just toooo good with it. So I thought I would post it here for you guys.
There's a post in Tactical on this if you are interested.
Every character can use it but Fox is just toooo good with it. So I thought I would post it here for you guys.
There's a post in Tactical on this if you are interested.
SnowballBob33
Smash Ace
hmm...looks like some ghetto pivot foxtrot dash dance like thing. pretty cool, but seeing him trip reminded me its brawl. it looked sweet when the cpu did it tho
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
^
^
pretty old, been known about for a long while, not the most helpfull thing : /
^
pretty old, been known about for a long while, not the most helpfull thing : /
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
*sigh* it is not old at all
You are taking to momentum's and causing them to go against each other canceling them out while inputting more momentum in another direction.
Well thats kind of obvious dont you think? But every now and then you're going to get hit.
Personally, i cant do the reverse shine. I dont know why, but im assuming that something like this that is soo hard to do, just isnt worth it if you miss it at all.
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
maybe not old to you, but i've known about this for a while.
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
ok guys help me out here, I've been seeing people pull off shine to running upsmash combo's and stuff, but when I try it they can escape, do I have **** timing or is it a true combo, and if so does it work at any percent?
can you do a forward throw to running shine to running upsmash at 0%?
and if it really is a combo, you just do a normal shine right? the jump cancel into shine is slower right?
anyways cheers guys.
can you do a forward throw to running shine to running upsmash at 0%?
and if it really is a combo, you just do a normal shine right? the jump cancel into shine is slower right?
anyways cheers guys.
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
*headdesk*
yes is it a true combo, on certain characters and at certain percents, to do it better, run at them and shine while your in there character model, and for trot at the very end of the shine animation, then at you go forward up-smash.
for some characters and percents you need to run just a tiny bit further or charge the smash a very tiny bit.
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
thanks guys I appreciate it
Toronto Joe
Smash Master
fthrow can infact be "combod" into shine if they dont tech the ground, if they do i guess you could tech chase into a smash or grab or something
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
the frame window for that combo must be pretty dam small...
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
ehhhhhhhhh, not to sure bout that >.>
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
lol, yeah, not even that hard and super slick to pull off
Mhmm. Any character can do it, I know that Ike's use it often. Fox doesnt really benefit from it.... unless you run at the opponent and they roll or spotdodge instead of hitting you like someone smart would.
Also, you just start out like you're going to RAR (reverse aerial rush) and then just hold up and roll your thumb over to the a-button.
Also, you just start out like you're going to RAR (reverse aerial rush) and then just hold up and roll your thumb over to the a-button.
I have a question and I didn't make a thread just for it cuz I think it fits in here. I would like some in-depth answers if at all possible. Thank you in advance.
What is wrong with playing fox aggressively/offensively?
Please let me explain myself a bit. I play Fox utilizing his speed to pressure the opponent and predict their next move based on the options they have available and the habits they make during play. In almost every video I see fox's just play defensively/evasively until they have what they believe to be a likely hit.
I feel like fox's speed and mobility allow him to make use of this sort of playstyle. I also believe it would be more useful in unlocking more of fox's potential. Playing the defensive way IMO really only furthers itself in better timing/spacing/etc but keeps fox from discovering new things.
I posted this on AllisBrawl and thought I'd ask here as well.
What is wrong with playing fox aggressively/offensively?
Please let me explain myself a bit. I play Fox utilizing his speed to pressure the opponent and predict their next move based on the options they have available and the habits they make during play. In almost every video I see fox's just play defensively/evasively until they have what they believe to be a likely hit.
I feel like fox's speed and mobility allow him to make use of this sort of playstyle. I also believe it would be more useful in unlocking more of fox's potential. Playing the defensive way IMO really only furthers itself in better timing/spacing/etc but keeps fox from discovering new things.
I posted this on AllisBrawl and thought I'd ask here as well.
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
imo its not so much fox but the game itself, its just the way brawl is, the player who plays defensively better is generally the winner.
the only character who can really play super agrro at high level play is mk sadly, but I would love to see someone prove me wrong with **** fox skills
the only character who can really play super agrro at high level play is mk sadly, but I would love to see someone prove me wrong with **** fox skills
Because a mostly offensive style fails due to Fox's inability to poke and approach well (especially compared to some higher tier characters).
The best playstyle to adopt with Fox is probably passive-aggressive, something I've been promoting for a while.
Do you have a link for a more elaborate explanation of a passive-aggressive playstyle? If not could you please sum it up if you have the time.
Also, Would you consider any of fox's moveset to be capable of poking?
Thanks for your reply Zhamy!
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
meh, passive agressive to me is just being lazzily agresive.
being the lazy laser camper to get them to aproach, then turning into the agresive offencive fox.
being the lazy laser camper to get them to aproach, then turning into the agresive offencive fox.
Right, doing what uzi said is essentially what you described as what fox should do.
It sounds strange, but you said yourself that fox should try to limit the opponents options. Well, by spacing you're in turn limitting your opponent to be the one to approach. But then one they've approached you have the upper hand with %'s and options.
So honestly it only makes sense for fox to space.
It sounds strange, but you said yourself that fox should try to limit the opponents options. Well, by spacing you're in turn limitting your opponent to be the one to approach. But then one they've approached you have the upper hand with %'s and options.
So honestly it only makes sense for fox to space.
What style do you prefer and why?
@Adamated - I understand the reasons behind fox spacing and being defensive. I'm just looking for more information. A purely offensive game appeals to me and so does fox. As much as I like to win, I also like to have fun. Hopefully discussing it here will allow me to incorporate others playstyles into my own while keeping it's basis of being aggressive(and competitive).
Well they say that the best O-fence is a good D-fence (or was it the other way?)
Regardless, this is the way for Fox, but since you seem rather intent on being agressive... I'd say that Short Hop Nairs and Bairs are some of your best options to "poke" an enemy. They have very little landing lag and can even be combo'd out of (depending on % of course) then once you get in, obviously u-tilt and jabz and Dairs just like every fox ever does and then kill with Usmash or Dsmash.
I prefer uzi's method, but sometimes RAGE FOX can throw an opponent off of his/her guard.
Also, boost pivot grabs do wonders for Fox.
Regardless, this is the way for Fox, but since you seem rather intent on being agressive... I'd say that Short Hop Nairs and Bairs are some of your best options to "poke" an enemy. They have very little landing lag and can even be combo'd out of (depending on % of course) then once you get in, obviously u-tilt and jabz and Dairs just like every fox ever does and then kill with Usmash or Dsmash.
I prefer uzi's method, but sometimes RAGE FOX can throw an opponent off of his/her guard.
Also, boost pivot grabs do wonders for Fox.
This is very useful!! Thank you so much!
I bair and nair quite a bit already, and have gotten my timing down for it. As well as turning them around with a short hop. I've also got utilts/dairs down of course.
I do have trouble with Jab, what would be a situation when I should use it? My main problem with jabbing is I don't know which situations to use it in place of something else.
Along with jabs I've also been practicing the pivot grabs. I can't seem to get it down though, once again I would assume it's the situation because I've just been throwing them out randomly trying to find out when the best time to use it is.
Any advice on the Jab/PivotGrab would be greatly appreciated. I'll reread some threads on it as well. Thanks again though, this is a lot easier and less time consuming than thinking solely by myself.
Jab is amazing. Come out on frame two, actually has a slightly longer hitbox than Nair, and destroys in boxing. If you have good reaction time, jab is amazing. You can do some ridiculous frametraps with it, like jab->Dsmash, jab->Dash dance->Usmash (hilarious against shield if you jab and they drop it only to get hit by Usmash), etc. etc. Experiment. Jab->grab works too, if you need something simple. (It's a frametrap, though. Not a combo.)
You seem to have some trouble with tech skill, though, which is a huge damper on your game. Pivot grabbing isn't that hard, either, and the timing is really easy -> dash, flip your stick to the other direction, and push Z. Is it a problem of your fingers not being quick enough?
If you want to have a purely offensive playstyle, you need extremely good spacing. My recommendation? Go play Marth for a bit. Learn to space his attacks and how to threaten.
I still think an entirely offensive playstyle is not the correct way to play Fox, but if you're intent on it, then go for it.
You seem to have some trouble with tech skill, though, which is a huge damper on your game. Pivot grabbing isn't that hard, either, and the timing is really easy -> dash, flip your stick to the other direction, and push Z. Is it a problem of your fingers not being quick enough?
If you want to have a purely offensive playstyle, you need extremely good spacing. My recommendation? Go play Marth for a bit. Learn to space his attacks and how to threaten.
I still think an entirely offensive playstyle is not the correct way to play Fox, but if you're intent on it, then go for it.
SnowballBob33
Smash Ace
I'm not sure how extreme you mean but I wouldn't recommend it all the time. Laser to force approaches and applying pressure and spacing is the best, but thats really general. Just do what works best for you. If you are winning then you are doing something right. If you see yourself losing to people, examine why and adjust your gameplay to counter them, whether that be more campy or more aggresive.
I'm going to work on the things I gathered from you guys, and hopefully have some videos soon enough. I've never taken replay data and put it online and I'm lazy so it might be 2-3 weeks.
@Zhamy - I was using shield grab for the pivot grab instead of Z which I'm gonna change. I'll play around with the jab ideas you gave me as well, starting with the jab>grab.
Please don't hate me for this, but define tech skill please
I will most definitely be spending a bit of time with marth. I'm very interested and determined to pursue this playstyle and that seemed like a solid suggestion for doing so.
@Snowball - I play primarily against a very defensive olimar main, and have only been to a few local tournies but I did/do well. I haven't really played anyone that has a name for themselves yet so it's hard to determine if I'm getting lucky or doing well. I can't really find fox/olimar match-up data either so I don't know if it's easy or hard for me. I'd say it's 55/45 personally, in fox's favor.
Thanks again everyone, I've been really dedicated to fox and appreciate all of your time!
SnowballBob33
Smash Ace
tech skill is just being able to do basically anything that is somewhat advanced and normally requires you to have fast fingers. its different from spacing and mindgames which is more metal. tech skill is physical
here are some things that require tech skill:
-dacus
-sh auto canceled aerials
-quick edge hog
-illusion cancel
-b reversals
here are some things that require tech skill:
-dacus
-sh auto canceled aerials
-quick edge hog
-illusion cancel
-b reversals
Guys, I have a large predicament here. mIf you knew already or not M2K moved to Ohio. Well I live in dayton and there is a weekly there with a kid who mains Mk. He's on here too (dj_Iskascribble). Anyway, he trains with M2K. SO. I'm facing a M2K ish level MK, i need some drastic help.
I can consistently get to the 2nd stock around 100% damage. I've got dair combos down, I shad behind shield to utilt or grab ect. and I'm even boost pivot grabbing and I'm still having trouble.
Do any of you have advice for this matchup? I'll try just about anything.
Also, what frame does Dsmash come out on?
I can consistently get to the 2nd stock around 100% damage. I've got dair combos down, I shad behind shield to utilt or grab ect. and I'm even boost pivot grabbing and I'm still having trouble.
Do any of you have advice for this matchup? I'll try just about anything.
Also, what frame does Dsmash come out on?
Uzima (Uzi)
Smash Lord
go to battlefield, and use the platforms like a pro : D
also, work on your JJC and shine combos, always good to do
also, work on your JJC and shine combos, always good to do
@Snowball - I can do all of those aside from illusion cancel very consistently. My tech skill has a bit of a learning curve for some reason. On the bright side once I get something down I've got it for good.
I used a lot of the advice you guys gave me last night. Met up with my friend who mains Olimar. After the initial matches of trying/playing with pivots and jabs I was finding them both very useful. The pivot grabbing was amazing when he was dropping down from the air, I was able to catch him with it quite often. The jabs I'm still having trouble with, my tech skill for canceling the jab and making it another jab or grab is horrible currently. I always dtilt or start the rapid kicks on accident.
Started playing marth to work on spacing also, that will take lots of practice but I can see how it's easier to learn spacing with marth. I was having trouble understanding how to space with fox. Quick question, is it good to walk? Instead of running or dashing if it will help my spacing.
So I obviously haven't perfected anything yet, but I'm happy with these new things being incorporated in my game and feel it's going well.
Thanks for defining it.
I used a lot of the advice you guys gave me last night. Met up with my friend who mains Olimar. After the initial matches of trying/playing with pivots and jabs I was finding them both very useful. The pivot grabbing was amazing when he was dropping down from the air, I was able to catch him with it quite often. The jabs I'm still having trouble with, my tech skill for canceling the jab and making it another jab or grab is horrible currently. I always dtilt or start the rapid kicks on accident.
Started playing marth to work on spacing also, that will take lots of practice but I can see how it's easier to learn spacing with marth. I was having trouble understanding how to space with fox. Quick question, is it good to walk? Instead of running or dashing if it will help my spacing.
So I obviously haven't perfected anything yet, but I'm happy with these new things being incorporated in my game and feel it's going well.
