Housepets! Mafia - Game Over - Who lived happily ever after in Babylon Gardens?

[T-block]

I appreciate the effort.

Yes, I would have been fine if you had said that about me. But you didn't =\

It doesn't really matter if you say you were going to get to them. I want to know WHY you didn't get to them with your first pass, because the fact that you didn't is telling, regardless of whether you were going to later.

I'll reread today and post my thoughts given a town flip from you later. But if this is some last ditch attempt to make me waste my time I'm going to be mad >=(

 

[Kantrip]

I don't know T-Block, you are tunneling a bit harshly. I'm kind of iffy on lynching JTB toDay. If we lynch him and he's town and then scum gets their NK off, assuming scum has at least one experienced player in it, town is kind of done for.

I think getting rid of an unknown who WILL NOT help us in endgame is a better route for toDay.

 

[JTB]

I didn't get to them because its just how I play the game D1. Its hard for me to focus on everyone at once and when I try to, I just get overwhelmed.

 

[T-block]

I don't know T-Block, you are tunneling a bit harshly. I'm kind of iffy on lynching JTB toDay. If we lynch him and he's town and then scum gets their NK off, assuming scum has at least one experienced player in it, town is kind of done for.

I think getting rid of an unknown who WILL NOT help us in endgame is a better route for toDay.

In your opinion, who are the experienced players, Kantrip?

 

[Deleted member]

Unvote JTB

Gonna do another read of this.

 

[Kantrip]

Well, not everyone answered me when I asked about experience, but from what I gather, a lot of the players are pretty new to mafia:

Auspher
Gustave
John2k4
Kantrip
Terywj
The Paprika Killer
TokyoGamer7

and we have about three highly experience players:

JTB
Red Ryu
T-block

I'm not trying to discount anyone in the first group's ability, but as far as I know, town wouldn't get very far without the bottom group. Well, let's assume scum gets at least one person from the bottom group. Let's say, Red Ryu. If we were to lynch JTB toDay, and T-Block got Night Killed, we would be left with no veteran players on Town's side.

 

[JTB]

unvote
vote: auspher

 

[Kantrip]

May I ask why you voted Auspher, JTB?

 

[T-block]

Well, not everyone answered me when I asked about experience, but from what I gather, a lot of the players are pretty new to mafia:

Auspher
Gustave
John2k4
Kantrip
Terywj
The Paprika Killer
TokyoGamer7

and we have about three highly experience players:

JTB
Red Ryu
T-block

I'm not trying to discount anyone in the first group's ability, but as far as I know, town wouldn't get very far without the bottom group. Well, let's assume scum gets at least one person from the bottom group. Let's say, Red Ryu. If we were to lynch JTB toDay, and T-Block got Night Killed, we would be left with no veteran players on Town's side.

So if JTB is town and we lynch him, then I die at Night, then if RR is scum, town is in trouble. Sure.

But if JTB is scum and we let him live, and I die at Night, I think town is even worse off. No offense to RR, but I don't have much faith in the remaining players' ability to go against scumJTB.

Plus, I'll supply my full reads before the Day ends, but I can tell you now that I have RR as a decently strong town read, so that's two reads of mine that point to lynching JTB being the best course of action.

Kantrip, what is your read on JTB?

 

[T-block]

JTB, any insights you can offer on the way Kantrip has acted with respect to your lynch?

 

[Kantrip]

I'm not sure how to read what JTB did. On one hand, he played a gambit and then focused on other players' reactions to it rather than the subject (TG7) of it. However, he has provided a read on TG& due to his gambit: town. He claimed that this was from a re-read. I don't see why scum would change their read like that on purpose. All it would do is direct scrutiny at them when all they want it to look town. Unless you're insinuating that his reads changing was a slip. From what you're saying about JTB's abilities as scum, I don't think he would have a slip like that.

I have him as town for now, simply because his answers to questions were reasonable where his gambit was poorly executed. A poorly executed gambit comes out looking town more than scum to me, because scum would make sure they do it 100% correctly, would they not?

 

[Xiivi]

Vc.1d

6/10|10.27.11 11:59PM EST

votee|voters
JTB|Terywj/John2k4/
Terywj|Gustave/
Gustave|Red Ryu/Kantrip/
Auspher|JTB/
No Vote|TokyoGamer7/T-block/The Paprika Killer/Auspher/

 

[JTB]

Apologies, I was making my post about auspher when my boss came in. Ill be back in like an hour or two, but for the mean time, kantrip try to find out why I voted auspher yourself. Hint: the timing of his vote on me and his unvop

 

[Deleted member]

I unvoted because I want to reread this and have a better sense of judgement...

 

[T-block]

Okay, I re-read with town JTB in mind.

If JTB is town, then Auspher absolutely needs to die. Admittedly I sorta gave Auspher a pass because he was the first to vote JTB past the gambit phase.

I am also incredibly wary of Kantrip at the moment... town JTB would tug my read on Kantrip in both ways - not sure whether I'd think better or worse of him.

 

[Deleted member]

You've lost me, T-block. How must I absolutely die? Give reasoning with your accusations, please.

 

[Deleted member]

Like honestly, I have no idea how retracting my vote has made me such a target...

 

[JTB]

Here is my previous stance on Auspher from last night.

I don't like Auspher either. His 153 doesn't sit well with me at all. He's testing the waters by asking others about me before voting me. Also, between his 153 and his vote, I'm changed from null to null leaning scum when the only thing I had posted was I would catch up that night. It doesn't sit well with me because there 3 pages of content he would be commenting on, but instead he decides to ignore it all and vote me. His vote on me is weak as well because his reasoning for my gambit is weak as hell.

What is important here is what the manner in which he voted me. He began by calling me a null read, which slowly regressed into a null leaning scum read with me not posting anything that could cause that. He asked John about how he feels about me, meaning he's trying to see how people would react to his vote on me.

Now, keep in mind his reasoning for voting me has nothing to do with T-Blocks case at all, his argues that it's possible I was faking a daycop to get a quicklynch, an extremely reaching argument in itself.

Now, on to recent events. I responded to T-Blocks case, resulting in a TPK and an Auspher vote. The TPK unvote is fine since his vote is from my gambit phase and I'm just under the impression that he hadn't remembered to unvote yet.

However, the Auspher unvote is COMPLETELY different. Why is that?

Auspher's vote on me has it's own independent reasoning (despite it being weak), but his unvote came shortly after I began responding to T-Block and support for my lynch started to disappear (see: TPK unvote, Kantrips 322). Why would Auspher unvote me after I began debunking T-Blocks case when he had his own case against me?

Auspher is playing careful scum. His vote on me was done extremely safely and kept it on me after T-Blocks case. He never comments on T-Blocks case at all, but still unvotes shortly after I begin to take it apart, implying he was relying on T-Block to get myself lynched and not his own case that he never pushed.

This is why he is scum and I would like to see his lynch toDay.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Gustave has a direct contradiction in his 85. He previously stated in his 44 that he doesn't believe flavor is always accurate when it comes to claims, but in his 85, he doesn't trust my claim, adding in the flavor mix-up. He reinforces this in his 121. And that's not the only thing that's contradictory. His 40, 44, and 85 implies he believes there is some truth to my claim (while still skeptical of it), but in his 125, he states my gambit was super obvious.

I haven't read his response to T-block yet since that will take a while to go through itself, but these are my initial thoughts on him up to his response to T-block.

All of that has already been said, and I have already responded to it, read my 175, the response to T-block.

Concerning T-block vs JTB:
I agree with Kantrip. Voting off one of the three 'high level' players on D1 sounds like it's not a very good idea. The danger is, though, that if scum is between them, they also get an extra day of manipulating the game. That's why there needs to be excessive amount of evidence against that player.

JTB has defended himself adequately, in my opinion, so I still think JTB should not be the play of the day. I also still believe he's town. Not as much town as before, but town nonetheless.

A lot of shame points go to Tery, for me.

As JTB just ninjas me now with a case on Auspher:
I definitely see where he's coming from with playing careful scum. Very bad on Auspher's part especially is the unvote. T-block unvoted and TPK unvoted, this put JTB at L-3. Not nearly enough to be quicklynched, enough votes to still show that JTB isn't out of the clear. Auspher still had suspicions towards JTB, obviously, otherwise he'd never have voted him in the first place.

The reasoning for the unvote is just because he wants to do a re-read of the game and have a better sense of judgement... For re-reading, you don't need to unvote. Seems like a poor excuse to retract your claws from the ashes of what was once a case on JTB, which quickly died out with all the unvotes.

Unvote, Vote: Auspher

I support this.

 

[T-block]

You've lost me, T-block. How must I absolutely die? Give reasoning with your accusations, please.

See JTB's most recent post. Same reasoning.

However, I still don't think JTB will flip town.

 

[Deleted member]

Fine. Lynch me. I unvoted of my own accord, yet it's enough to push people to kill off a town, apparently.

I'm just angry after reading all of that.

 

[Jim Morrison]

If you're a townie, you're not doing our faction any good by not defending yourself...

 

[Terywj [태리]]

@T-Block's #132: I agree in the sense that neither side presented can be considered a legitimate tell, but I would be more wary of Guus over JTB, given your findings.

@T-Block's #135: I was playing a messed up Vengeful Townie slot in Megaman X Mafia. JTB, an inactive scum player, just pushed along against me, which shouldn't happen here if (a) I was actually Vengeful Townie and (b) JTB is town. I'm not saying JTB isn't town, either.

I dislike how JTB "clears" my play in Megaman Man X when that wasn't even the case in any way whatsoever. But I'm just going to toss that aside and note T-Block's #142 and how there were no questioning comments on JTB's prior answer. This is also seen in John and Auspher's posts later on.

@Red Ryu's #158/161: I like the idea of a TokyoGamer fallback, but I think you're stressing that too adamantly. This doesn't give me a valid read on you, but I'm throwing it out there.

@Kantrip's #163: If it wasn't apparent, that was a joke comment. As I've stated, my perceptions of RVS are shaped differently, and as such, JTB's gambit / claim did not move us anywhere but to gather information on JTB vs. Guus, etc.

@T-Block's #169: Having a fallback lynch is nearly just a failsafe in the event we go nowhere. And in this case, we'd be getting rid of a player who is completely new and hasn't been playing "well". Why would you be against this if given no other options?

@Guus' #175: You say you doubted JTB's claim even more after a flavour-mixup, but you don't think of him as scum. So JTB stands as a null for you, or what?

@John2k4's #192 / tPK's #193: Didn't both of you share support for TokyoGamer's lynch as a required fallback? What's with these posts?

@TokyoGamer's #208: You obviously care about your well-being, emphasized by "Why did I have to go first?" in #195.

@TokyoGamer's #220: This just contradicts what you said in #208.

@Guus' #224: You accuse me of still thinking in RVS, but I'm assuming you read my post on how I think of RVS differently. Does that warrant a scumtell? Or rather, do different subjective opinions on a certain topic help determine alignments?

TokyoGamer, you also never presented any thoughts as to why you believe I'm scum.

@JTB's #245: I always forget to remove votes once whatever situation has passed. Unvote.

@Guus' #257: Good explanation here.

@TokyoGamer's #263: What are you thoughts on activity (or lack of) vs. alignments? Is there a clear correlation between the two? Inverse? None at all?

This is before page 8. Head's still spinning.

 

[Deleted member]

okay, sort of time again to post stuff.

just to be clear my vote should not have been on JTB anymore a while back already. (I still hate you for the gambit but that doesn't make you scum).

to sum up my thoughts on people real quick,
people not contributing jacks***:
TG7 and Terywj
while TG can be somewhat forgiven for being completely new to this game, he is extremely reluctant to learn or care for the game in general. his modkill request puts him on town for now though.
Tery is just ugh. afaik he has (some) experience so this is just annoying. lazy null

Kantrip and John are null because for me there are just, well, there. it's probably just me but these two are kind of the grey mouses.

RR I have as town for now (though the fluff on Zach was sooooooo not needed)

onto the peopel that matter.

Guus: don't like him. his wishy-washy behaviour during the gambit and his later"super obvious" statements about it contribute a lot to this, and also the general feel he's sheeping JTB. leaning scum.

T-block is town in my opinion. kind of hard to pinpoint but he hasn't said anything that make me think he's scum.

JTB is err, I honestly can't tell anymore, but he is very good at what he's doing.

lol Auspher at first I was going to ask how much experience you had because your unvote could just have been you being newb, but #341 just convinced me because that is such a typical scum reaction I can't even believe you're posting it.

Vote: Auspher
(that's 3 votes now right?)

 

[Terywj [태리]]

@JTB's #308: I already explained I would be out on Sunday. That, and I've gotten to your post with my response. Sorry for making you wait.

@Kantrip's #310: So like, I've been meaning to ask this and not specifically directed at you, but why wait to post general reads? I do acknowledge the fact that this can help scum, but I feel the overall benefits for knowing the thoughts and connections between other players is more beneficial towards town than it is for scum--classic utilitarianism.

@JTB's #312: Oh, woah there. Wait. You just stated that my vote on your slot was RVS (correct). Why did you not speak of this earlier when you asked.

Everything else is meh, really. Dislike Auspher's giving up mindset, but since most of us are all new to this style of Mafia, I guess I can't say I'm surprised or that I can use that as evidence to vote Auspher.

I'll look back at JTB vs. T-Block eventually.

Anticipating responses from TokyoGamer.

 

[Deleted member]

way to ninja me and ruin my initial stance htere Tery :Awesome:

some of your point are kinda eh though, liek that last question at TG, what's the point of that? why do you even expect a response from a complete newb to a useless question like that let alone need the answer?

about the fallbakc thing, I'm pretty sure I put a nice "if" in me being okay with the fallback.

 

[Deleted member]

(wonder if you ninja me again)

about the stance posting thing, sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and build a solid case rather than say "hey you're doing X" after which point they will obviously stop doing so and/or dismiss it with reasoning that doesn't hold up to an actual case.

could you explain that "style of mafia" thing? other than the gambit this is a completely normal mafia game.

 

[Deleted member]

It's hard to defend against such nitpicky reasoning like that. No one has liked me since the beginning of this game. I got "cleared" by Kantrip, but I doubt that's worth anything now.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Because it gets me responses, TPK.

That wasn't the point. Yes, you said, *if* nobody else shows up, TokyoGamer is the lynch, but then question why a fallback lynch was decided on now (or rather at that current point). Maybe I'm misinterpreting here, but it definitely seems contradictory to me.

Sorry, but before playing SWF DGames Mafia I played a different style of Mafia. I need to stop doing that.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Not sure how to respond to Auspher's #348. Maybe I can word it later. But it's...icky.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Also, is TokyoGamer getting replaced or is he just not posting. He's been online, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Deleted member]

It's hard to defend against such nitpicky reasoning like that. No one has liked me since the beginning of this game. I got "cleared" by Kantrip, but I doubt that's worth anything now.

then say it isn't a legit reason and bring out your own case.
the throwing your hands in the air post is just too typical for me to pass up.

 

[Vinylic.]

Also, is TokyoGamer getting replaced or is he just not posting. He's been online, if I'm not mistaken.

I'll still be playing. Just waiting for the right time to post here.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'll still be playing. Just waiting for the right time to post here.

What? What does this even mean? You're only going to respond when the time is right? Is this part of your "restriction" you mentioned earlier?

 

[Vinylic.]

No, not at all. There's a certain part I have to do in my restriction.

I'm not very good at that part. Which is why I'll be looking at some popular sources for it.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Okay...

Do you acknowledge the points I brought up against you?

 

[Vinylic.]

Clearly.

Vote: Auspher

 

[Xiivi]

Vc1e

6/10|10.27.11 11:59PM EST

votee|voters
JTB|John2k4/
Gustave|Red Ryu/Kantrip/
Auspher|JTB/Gustave/The Paprika Killer/TokyoGamer7/
No Vote|T-block/Auspher/Terywj/

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't know T-Block, you are tunneling a bit harshly. I'm kind of iffy on lynching JTB toDay. If we lynch him and he's town and then scum gets their NK off, assuming scum has at least one experienced player in it, town is kind of done for.

I think getting rid of an unknown who WILL NOT help us in endgame is a better route for toDay.

I find this to be an extremely shallow reason to not lynch him.

I don't care about experience, unless the person proves to be detrimental with it. I care if I can read them as town or scum and what I can see from there.

So if JTB is town and we lynch him, then I die at Night, then if RR is scum, town is in trouble. Sure.

But if JTB is scum and we let him live, and I die at Night, I think town is even worse off. No offense to RR, but I don't have much faith in the remaining players' ability to go against scumJTB.

Plus, I'll supply my full reads before the Day ends, but I can tell you now that I have RR as a decently strong town read, so that's two reads of mine that point to lynching JTB being the best course of action.

Kantrip, what is your read on JTB?

This is why we assume the doc, or someone who can cover one of us does so.

And none taken, I may play a lot of mafia but I don't consider myself good at it.

T-Block, do you have a read of sorts on Tokyo?

~

Ok, I dislike the votes that piled on, Tokyo's and TPK's look icky.

But I approve of the reasoning put down. Still I don't like JTB, I don't like his responses back to T-Block.

However, Auspher's unvote with the reasoning provided makes me wanna double check and weigh the claims against one another so I can get a clear idea of who needs to go.

Auspher you should claim now, because of how short the deadline is coming and it's clear town is whiling to lynch you.

 

[T-block]

Town on TG7. I said I agreed with the reasoning JTB provided on him, and I do.

I don't think Auspher needs to claim. I REALLY think the best course of action is to lynch JTB. I am comfortable having Auspher down as a clear if JTB flips scum, and I still really think JTB is scum. The converse is not true (ie- Auspher's flip doesn't say anything about JTB). I'm also really not feeling the Auspher lynch after 341. I need to re-read how he voted JTB in the first place though.

Kantrip, your reasons for not voting JTB are incredibly weak. What is your real motivation for defending JTB?

vote: JTB