Housepets! Mafia - Game Over - Who lived happily ever after in Babylon Gardens?

[Deleted member]

The only real scum vibe I've gotten is on JTB based on his play at the start of the game.

Vote JTB

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh and RR, I don't know who you think I am, but I'm not so sure I am whoever you think I am o.o Just saying.

I know, just trust me on that.

The main one I'm looking at right now is Tery, since he seems to be trying to fly by on the minimum to prevent a prod.

Tery is thrown around a lot it seems.

~

Can people explain why JTB's gambit was scummy over not done well?

 

[T-block]

Mkay then...cool. Hope you're not scum xP

Can we wait for JTB to come in and answer questions before we elaborate on that question, RR?

 

[Kantrip]

Honestly I get absolutely nothing out of JTB's gambit. It can be done as either alignment and nothing indicated that it was one or the other for me.

 

[JTB]

It's gonna be a while before content starts really sinking into my brain while I keep doing readthroughs, so don't expect a mass amount of content at once.

I have TG7 as town. The way he reacted to it in the beginning was very nonchalant, as if he knew I was lying about my claim already. Also, him requesting a modkill/replacement reinforces that read because I'm under the impression he's doing this because he feels like everyone is against him whereas if he were scum, he would have a buddy to talk to and not feel so discouraged.

Auspher, TPK, and Tery, why exactly are you voting me?

 

[Deleted member]

I just thought your gambit in the beginning was a bit questionable. That's really all I have to go off of for now. Your vote isn't set in stone, though. It'll probably change soon once I get a decent read on someone.

 

[JTB]

Are you actually going to question me about my gambit or just throw your vote on me and forget about it until a more opportune target arises?

 

[Kantrip]

Vote: Auspher

That was an unfortunate scumslip.

 

[Deleted member]

Are you actually going to question me about my gambit or just throw your vote on me and forget about it until a more opportune target arises?

I mean, did you have any reason for targeting Tokyo?

 

[JTB]

I have given my reasoning several times, have you read the game?

 

[JTB]

I lied, I only gave it once in my last big post.

 

[JTB]

Time for me to sleep, but I still want answers from Tery and TPK as well.

 

[Kantrip]

It's because TG7 is new that JTB chose him for the gambit.

Do you have a particular problem with this choice?

 

[Deleted member]

That's the reasoning? Cool.

Why are you voting me?

 

[Kantrip]

Because of your scumslip. If I point it out you'll try to back-door out of it, so I want you to find it yourself.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I see it.

FoS: Auspher

Still want to see the other's reasoning for their JTB vote.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Gustave, you're really willing to lynch Tokyo at this early point in the game? He's trying to learn after all, and I think it's just a knee-jerk reaction for new players to get emotional/overly-defensive in their first go round.

I know, but still willing. I wouldn't want to lynch him right now, but if it came to it at the end of the day...

So scum picks are Tery and Tokyo.

Tokyo you say you understand why it is hard for him, yet you support his lynch? Is that due to my stances before on a fallback?

I understand it being hard for him, but that doesn't mean that I don't want what's best for town. If it ends up being his lynch, I would support it, since he's not adding anything to the game, other than discussion about him.

Think of it as cutting off dead weight. Of course, if there was someone else who stood out as scummy at the end of the Day, I'd never support a TG7 lynch. And this had nothing to do with any of your stances.

 

[T-block]

Really guys? That's the best you can do?

I have TG7 as town. The way he reacted to it in the beginning was very nonchalant, as if he knew I was lying about my claim already. Also, him requesting a modkill/replacement reinforces that read because I'm under the impression he's doing this because he feels like everyone is against him whereas if he were scum, he would have a buddy to talk to and not feel so discouraged.

I agree with your TG7 read. Please keep your promise to deliver content.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I just thought your gambit in the beginning was a bit questionable. That's really all I have to go off of for now. Your vote isn't set in stone, though. It'll probably change soon once I get a decent read on someone.

What about it was questionable?

 

[Deleted member]

Playing a fake cop? Going in for a quick lynch without any true reads to go off of?

@RR, what is FoS?

 

[Deleted member]

Is my scumslip me saying my vote isn't set in stone?

 

[T-block]

Auspher, JTB said he never had any intent of following through with a TG7 lynch. Do you believe him?

And FoS stands for Finger of Suspicion. It's used to indicate suspicion of someone without actually voting.

They're saying you admitted to being opportunistic with just hopping onto pressuring JTB without solid reasoning.

I am not taking a stance on that in this post.

 

[Vinylic.]

So scum picks are Tery and Tokyo.

Tokyo you say you understand why it is hard for him, yet you support his lynch? Is that due to my stances before on a fallback?

No and No.

Ok, what is it that Tery is doing that makes you think he is scum.

Keep in mind what I told you scum wants to do, does Tery fit this?

Well, he doesn't go on much here. So yeah, I think so.

Tokyo, are you going to try to stick it out for a while, or do you still want to replace..?

I'll be staying here. I'll be more logical than Piccolo from Dragon ball Z.

TG7, I can pretty much say you were just getting pressure because you're new, and people wanted to see how you reacted.

I haven't thought of that.

I have TG7 as town. The way he reacted to it in the beginning was very nonchalant, as if he knew I was lying about my claim already. Also, him requesting a modkill/replacement reinforces that read because I'm under the impression he's doing this because he feels like everyone is against him whereas if he were scum, he would have a buddy to talk to and not feel so discouraged.

You are too logical on this. Keep down your expectations.

A good reason here is this quote:

It's because TG7 is new that JTB chose him for the gambit.

 

[John2k4]

I can see some of what people are trying to....do... (Need to find a better word)...with TG7, since most of the same kind of thing happened to me in MM (regarding the early pressure).

 

[Kantrip]

Unvote.

Alright, Auspher. I just wanted to see how you reacted. It wasn't an unusual or suspicious reaction to me, so you're clear

Thanks for playing along, Red Ryu.

T-Block, do you think that applying pressure with a vote is opportunistic?

 

[T-block]

Depends on the context obviously... whether someone has reasoning to back up their vote, and whether we believe that reasoning is their own. And perhaps more importantly, whether their motivation behind that vote is truly to pressure, or to push a lynch, or to fake contribute.

Basically, that question is way too general to have a proper answer ._.

How confident are you in townAuspher? I have no clue how to read him to be honest.

 

[Kantrip]

I don't know how to read him either, and have never played with him. I'm not going to say I'm confident in the read, but his response didn't raise any flags for me and I'm okay with him for now.

 

[Kantrip]

Just out of curiosity, what does everyone's mafia experience look like? How many people are new to the game?

 

[John2k4]

Well with MM out of the way (for me), this will be my second game here.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

This is like my 20th game or something.

Also I wasn't playing along with Auspher.

Oh yeah three days til deadline, gonna reread.

 

[Kantrip]

@T-Block, top scumpick?

 

[T-block]

Thanks for that deadline reminder, RR. I don't think I should wait to post this any longer.

I think we should lynch JTB.

===Strong town read on T-block===

JTB states in 116 that I am his strongest town read.

T-Block has only posted once and he's already my strongest town read since he's the only player that actually realized what I was doing. Nothing short of expected though, he's probably the most competent player in this game.

(...)

I'll be looking at those who also refused to join the wagon and watching them closely (pretty much everyone except T-block).

What is his reasoning for this read? That I recognized that he was attempting a gambit and went along with it. Both town and scum players can recognize a gambit and support it... the fact that a player recognizes a gambit should tell how experienced or how skilled that player is. It is not indicative of alignment. JTB is not a new player - he knows this, yet simply going along with the gambit is enough to land me as the only player he won't be looking closely at? That doesn't make any sense to me. I think JTB is attempting to get on the good side of (excuse the arrogance) one of the strongest players in this game. I cannot see a player of JTB's calibre honestly labelling me as town for that.



===Motivation behind his gambit===

JTB started the day with a daycop gambit, claiming a guilty on TG7. In explaining his gambit, he provides this reasoning for his choice of target:

a) He's a player I literally know nothing about so I figured he was new to mafia and wanted to see his reaction
b) Since the game started immediately following role pms being sent out, if he happened to be scum, I could get a reaction from him before he talked to a scummate.

This shows that he claims he went into the gambit with the intent of gaining information on TG7. Now, read the rest of his 116. Nowhere in that post does he offer any stance on TG7. In fact, he actually outright says that he did not get anything from TG7:

Of course, this only works if people actually put votes on him so that he feels pressured, but people are dense as **** and can't see intent if it smacked them upside the face.

But it wasn't in vain as I did get reads from other players due to it.

But then his most recent appearance gives us post 245:

I have TG7 as town. The way he reacted to it in the beginning was very nonchalant, as if he knew I was lying about my claim already.

...where he gives reasoning for having TG7 as town from things that happened before 116. His posts do not line up here - why not mention this reasoning in 116, instead of saying that he couldn't get anything because everyone messed up? And there's more - he states that one of TPK's reasons for defending TG7:

He is scum with TG7 and trying to redirect pressure onto me by debunking my claim.

He is implicating TG7 as scum here. This reason is not offered as a possibility - it is offered as a truth. So, we have that he was unable to learn anything about TG7 and that TG7 is scum in the same post, and then TG7 is town based on things that happened before 116. He is not being consistent.

It's clear that JTB did not have TG7 in the front of his mind when writing 116. So what does he do instead?

He casts suspicion on basically every player in the game. This comes back to the idea that both scum and town alike can recognize or fail to recognize a gambit - JTB should know that failing to recognize a gambit is not a scum tell, especially for newer or weaker players, yet he explicitly says he will keep a close eye on those who questioned him. In this way, he is poised to jump on any wagon that develops except for mine - rather convenient then that he disappeared for over 48 hours right after, no? I think there is also an intimidation factor to his post:

I'll be looking at those who also refused to join the wagon and watching them closely

Weaker players will likely be more wary of crossing JTB after a post like this. I am unsure of whether this was intentional, but the effect is definitely there.

I question his motivations behind pulling the gambit. I think it is quite clear that a read on TG7 was no more than a secondary motivation. It looks more like an attempt to gain town credibility, and to intimidate weaker players by harshly pointing out supposed flaws in their play, rather than to gain reads.


===Inconsistent behaviour between his treatment of RR and Gustave===

In 116 he states RR as his strongest scum read. The reasoning he offers is that RR went against the gambit, then later goes along with it. He states that this is trying to garner town points while trying to make him look less credible.

But there is another person who did very similar actions. Look at Gustave's 40, then his 58. He opposes the gambit and then directs a post at Tokyo, using the gambit to try to gain information. Why does Gustave not get any suspicion? Why is RR his strongest scum read, while Gustave is not mentioned at all in his 116? Gustave was also one of the most active posters in the early game.

What does this suggest? It probably suggests that his pressure on RR is not sincere. But more importantly, it suggests that JTB is not paying attention to Gustave's actions. This is called selective scumhunting, and I find it highly unlikely that a town member would be justified in doing so.

This should be taken into account with Gustave's somewhat contradictory behaviour with regard to the gambit. Then, in his 175, he states that just the fakeclaim is enough to "clear" JTB for him. His main reasoning is that he finds it hard to believe that scum would put themself in the spotlight. This is an incredibly weak reasoning, as scum could easily do that. I strongly feel that scumJTB will lead us to scumGustave.

This lynch has it all - scum tells and connections =o Pretty much everyone has given an opinion on JTB, even though some didn't offer much

vote: JTB

Let's see those votes.

 

[John2k4]

I'm loving that reasoning, T-Block.
Vote: JTB

 

[T-block]

JTB, better get on a defense fast. With the pace this game is going, this is around the time when we want to be building up to a lynch, especially if we're going to switch in response to a claim.

But I don't think a claim will save you... you could just tell us who your scumbud/buds are instead if you want.

 

[John2k4]

With what, around two and a half days left in this Day, he should be claiming soon if he wants any hope at turning things around for D1 then.

 

[T-block]

And I don't mean to preach, guys, but you need to step it up.

I asked so many times for people to look at JTB's post (pretty much everything in that case came from 116)... there was SO much in that post, but people kept coming back with "idk jtb null".

Start looking at motivation instead of reading things on the surface. Ask less "would scum do this" and ask more "why did this person do this"

I mean... I'm probably not going to be around to do any more D2 *hint hint doc ^^;* and I REALLY don't want to see town fall apart after this. I'm super confident that we have two scum potentially pegged here.

 

[John2k4]

With the exception of Auspher, the post counts are at least decently spread...

JTB: 40
John2k4: 39
T-block: 35
Gustave: 27
Red Ryu: 26
The Paprika Killer: 24
Terywj: 23
Kantrip: 23
TokyoGamer7: 23
Auspher: 12

 

[Kantrip]

Interesting. Very good points, T-Block.

@John, do you agree with everything tblock said? Would you add or change anything? Are you going to sheep this game?

 

[JTB]

Cool, T-block is definitely town. I'll come back to you in a while.

 

[John2k4]

I'll say that yes, I agree with the points he made. I feel comfortable placing my vote on JTB. (Not quite sure about sheep...although I presume it means following and parroting others. )