Housepets! Mafia - Game Over - Who lived happily ever after in Babylon Gardens?

[JTB]

Someone should unvote so I don't get quickhammered though.

 

[John2k4]

You're at L-1....how about a claim, no?

 

[T-block]

unvote

doing an unofficial votecount now

 

[Kantrip]

Vote: Gustave

Please claim, JTB.

 

[Deleted member]

Just out of curiosity, what does everyone's mafia experience look like? How many people are new to the game?

Outside of IRL mafia, this is my second game, but I'm currently in another game, which was the first game I ever joined.

I apologize for my lack of posts in comparison to others. Things have just been heating up.

 

[JTB]

Zach, vanilla townie.

T-block, were you ready to lynch me, even with TPK and Tery voting me without explanation?

 

[John2k4]

Hey RedRyu, I see you perusing these fine posts...

Thoughts on T-Block's case?

 

[T-block]

Unofficial Votecount:

votee|voters
JTB|Terywj/The Paprika Killer/Auspher/John2k4
Terywj|Gustave/
Gustave|Red Ryu/Kantrip
Red Ryu|JTB/
No Vote|TokyoGamer7/T-block/

JTB L-2

Yeah that was close... should keep better track of where our lynch candidates are at... John's vote put him at L-1.

John, if you know you're putting a L-1, you should probably say so in your vote post. If you're town, that is.

 

[T-block]

Zach, vanilla townie.

T-block, were you ready to lynch me, even with TPK and Tery voting me without explanation?

I wasn't intending to end the Day any time soon. That should have been clear from 274, if that's what you mean.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Zach, vanilla townie.

T-block, were you ready to lynch me, even with TPK and Tery voting me without explanation?

I read housepets yet I had no clue who this was at first lol.

Also this post is a reference of the character claimed.

 

[John2k4]

Yeah, I had no idea we were that close to quickhammering JTB. I'll try to keep a better eye on those votes.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Wow derp on quoting, lol.

anyways onto this.

 

[T-block]

@mod: request more frequent votecounts

I know you're busy, but it'd be nice

So RR, you're trying to say it's likely a safe claim?

 

[John2k4]

Thanks for the character reference, I've never read the comic.

It sounds like a reasonable claim at least, nothing mismatching with the real description...

*T-Block ninjas me...
Sounds like a safeclaim to me.

 

[T-block]

Sometimes I don't even know about you, John x.x

 

[Kantrip]

John, why are you wishy washying?

 

[John2k4]

I'm not trying to wishywashy my posts around... I just was interested in the character bio that Red posted. Makes the claim seems somewhat likely.

(My vote is still on him if that's what you're worried about, Kan. )

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ack wrong pic.

This is Zack.

Also I'm not sure T-Block, Zach has been important multiple times in the series and even has one of the books based on him. So I can't definitely say safe claim based on that alone.

I'm gonna reread JTB specifically before I state a full opinion on this.

 

[Kantrip]

It's not. You say you're fine with the claim then suddenly you think it's a mafia safeclaim (in the same post).

Pretend for a moment JTB was confirmed town, who do you look at? Who would you think is scum? Who does that clear as town?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I looked at the pic and not the text at first, lol. No wonder I thought it was Marvin and not Zach, Marvin doesn't do a lot, unlike Tiger and Zach who he lives with.

 

[T-block]

lol wtf he's a rabbit? is there anything special about him?

anyways, we are probably giving too much weight to flavour here

 

[John2k4]

It's not. You say you're fine with the claim then suddenly you think it's a mafia safeclaim (in the same post).

Pretend for a moment JTB was confirmed town, who do you look at? Who would you think is scum? Who does that clear as town?

I would look at Tery, since he hasn't really given anything yet. Like, not a single piece of useable info. I would clear T-Block as Town.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm curious about Tery as well.

 

[Kantrip]

Elaborate what you mean, Auspher.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He is made a "god" or a great messiah of the animals in the forest near the town where Housepets takes place.

There he helps release Pete a Griffon who is considered somewhat of a villain to some or rather just a player of a game, depends on viewpoint of the characters in the series.

Later he pretty much is the third party who writes a huge journal of the whole water balloon war in the series.

I mean, I wouldn't doubt it as a safe claim since there are a ton more characters who do a lot more and show up more in the series, but at the same time he's done enough where I can't think of it as a likely safe claim.

Rufus, Daisy or someone like that are more likely, but yeah a lot of set -up speculation on that claim since I read this comic a lot, sorry lol.

~

As for JTB, I reread, and I gotta say, thinking about it with T-Blocks case in mind.

I'm siding with JTB scum. T-Block is right that in that post he made what looks like a lot of artificial reads and stances. Pulled hypocritical stances while ignoring certain players.

And I don't mean to preach, guys, but you need to step it up.

I asked so many times for people to look at JTB's post (pretty much everything in that case came from 116)... there was SO much in that post, but people kept coming back with "idk jtb null".

Start looking at motivation instead of reading things on the surface. Ask less "would scum do this" and ask more "why did this person do this"

I mean... I'm probably not going to be around to do any more D2 *hint hint doc ^^;* and I REALLY don't want to see town fall apart after this. I'm super confident that we have two scum potentially pegged here.

Serious question why wait to post this?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

By this I mean the case not the preach post.

 

[T-block]

Dropping the flavour stuff now.

I wanted to see more from everyone. If I posted the case as soon as I saw his post, with this player list, we would have seen a lot of people just following me. I was waiting for people to give more thoughts on JTB, and maybe even for someone to pick up on the same things I did, but nobody did >=(

 

[JTB]

Here's my full list of stances, as it seems that T-blocks case includes my lack of reads on certain people he thinks are scummy.

Tery is a null leaning scum. He hasn't posted anything worthwhile in this game, which isn't unlike Tery's playstyle at all, but when he was town in Megaman X, he atleast made some contributions in D1. I don't like that his vote is still on me from RVS and has yet to do anything else with it or push anyone.

TG7 I have already gone over.

I don't like Auspher either. His 153 doesn't sit well with me at all. He's testing the waters by asking others about me before voting me. Also, between his 153 and his vote, I'm changed from null to null leaning scum when the only thing I had posted was I would catch up that night. It doesn't sit well with me because there 3 pages of content he would be commenting on, but instead he decides to ignore it all and vote me. His vote on me is weak as well because his reasoning for my gambit is weak as hell.

TPK is someone I have eye on and I'll come back to him later in more detail. I don't like his flavor fishing on me as if he was trying to make my claim less credible and I don't like his fishing for role pm information on TG7.

Gustave has a direct contradiction in his 85. He previously stated in his 44 that he doesn't believe flavor is always accurate when it comes to claims, but in his 85, he doesn't trust my claim, adding in the flavor mix-up. He reinforces this in his 121. And that's not the only thing that's contradictory. His 40, 44, and 85 implies he believes there is some truth to my claim (while still skeptical of it), but in his 125, he states my gambit was super obvious.

I haven't read his response to T-block yet since that will take a while to go through itself, but these are my initial thoughts on him up to his response to T-block.

Kantrip is null leaning town. Reasoning for him not being a complete town read is his pressure on TG7 but lack of a solid stance on him yet. I like his thoughts as to why my gambit is null as well as his pressure on Auspher (which I didn't notice had his stance as well). Give me what you have gathered from your pressure or just a full list of stances if you like.


I'll come back to RR and John tomorrow once I get off work because I need to be sleeping soon and I want to get to T-block first, so just bare with me.

 

[T-block]

Here's my full list of stances, as it seems that T-blocks case includes my lack of reads on certain people he thinks are scummy.

Umm... not really? Only Gustave.

Gustave has a direct contradiction in his 85. He previously stated in his 44 that he doesn't believe flavor is always accurate when it comes to claims, but in his 85, he doesn't trust my claim, adding in the flavor mix-up. He reinforces this in his 121. And that's not the only thing that's contradictory. His 40, 44, and 85 implies he believes there is some truth to my claim (while still skeptical of it), but in his 125, he states my gambit was super obvious.

I haven't read his response to T-block yet since that will take a while to go through itself, but these are my initial thoughts on him up to his response to T-block.

You never explicitly state here what your stance on Gustave is. Can I take it to be implied that you think he's scummy?

How many scum do you think there are in this game, JTB?

 

[Kantrip]

I can post reads tomorrow if you'd like.

 

[JTB]

Thanks for that deadline reminder, RR. I don't think I should wait to post this any longer.

I think we should lynch JTB.

===Strong town read on T-block===

JTB states in 116 that I am his strongest town read.

T-Block has only posted once and he's already my strongest town read since he's the only player that actually realized what I was doing. Nothing short of expected though, he's probably the most competent player in this game.

(...)

I'll be looking at those who also refused to join the wagon and watching them closely (pretty much everyone except T-block).

What is his reasoning for this read? That I recognized that he was attempting a gambit and went along with it. Both town and scum players can recognize a gambit and support it... the fact that a player recognizes a gambit should tell how experienced or how skilled that player is. It is not indicative of alignment. JTB is not a new player - he knows this, yet simply going along with the gambit is enough to land me as the only player he won't be looking closely at? That doesn't make any sense to me. I think JTB is attempting to get on the good side of (excuse the arrogance) one of the strongest players in this game. I cannot see a player of JTB's calibre honestly labelling me as town for that.

T-Block, you are assuming that a town read is set in stone and can't be changed at all. I liked that you went along with my gambit and helped me get a solid read on TG7, so I don't see you as scum. Why should I spend my time convincing town of my town reads and not hunting scum? You are blowing this out of proportion.

===Motivation behind his gambit===

JTB started the day with a daycop gambit, claiming a guilty on TG7. In explaining his gambit, he provides this reasoning for his choice of target:

a) He's a player I literally know nothing about so I figured he was new to mafia and wanted to see his reaction
b) Since the game started immediately following role pms being sent out, if he happened to be scum, I could get a reaction from him before he talked to a scummate.

This shows that he claims he went into the gambit with the intent of gaining information on TG7. Now, read the rest of his 116. Nowhere in that post does he offer any stance on TG7. In fact, he actually outright says that he did not get anything from TG7:

I guess I am at blame for this. I was more focused on RR and TPK at the time that I didn't really pay attention to TG7 and it wasn't until I did a more detailed readthrough that I came to the conclusion that he was town. /shrug

Of course, this only works if people actually put votes on him so that he feels pressured, but people are dense as **** and can't see intent if it smacked them upside the face.

But it wasn't in vain as I did get reads from other players due to it.

But then his most recent appearance gives us post 245:

I have TG7 as town. The way he reacted to it in the beginning was very nonchalant, as if he knew I was lying about my claim already.

...where he gives reasoning for having TG7 as town from things that happened before 116. His posts do not line up here - why not mention this reasoning in 116, instead of saying that he couldn't get anything because everyone messed up?

See above.

And there's more - he states that one of TPK's reasons for defending TG7:

He is scum with TG7 and trying to redirect pressure onto me by debunking my claim.

He is implicating TG7 as scum here. This reason is not offered as a possibility - it is offered as a truth. So, we have that he was unable to learn anything about TG7 and that TG7 is scum in the same post, and then TG7 is town based on things that happened before 116. He is not being consistent.

This was before I got my read on TG7, so of course I believed this could be true.

It's clear that JTB did not have TG7 in the front of his mind when writing 116. So what does he do instead?

He casts suspicion on basically every player in the game. This comes back to the idea that both scum and town alike can recognize or fail to recognize a gambit - JTB should know that failing to recognize a gambit is not a scum tell, especially for newer or weaker players, yet he explicitly says he will keep a close eye on those who questioned him. In this way, he is poised to jump on any wagon that develops except for mine - rather convenient then that he disappeared for over 48 hours right after, no? I think there is also an intimidation factor to his post:

I'll be looking at those who also refused to join the wagon and watching them closely

Weaker players will likely be more wary of crossing JTB after a post like this. I am unsure of whether this was intentional, but the effect is definitely there.

Ugh, I really hate my play at this point. I was really hostile in that post because I was currently under the impression that my gambit had failed. So yes, I'm guilty of thinking too much of the newer players in following my lead.

Calling me scummy for not posting for two days is just reaching and you should know better than that.

I question his motivations behind pulling the gambit. I think it is quite clear that a read on TG7 was no more than a secondary motivation. It looks more like an attempt to gain town credibility, and to intimidate weaker players by harshly pointing out supposed flaws in their play, rather than to gain reads.

Bull****. Even though I didn't give my read on TG7 right away doesn't mean it wasn't my primary concern, I got sidetracked with TPK and RR. You are reaching here again.

===Inconsistent behaviour between his treatment of RR and Gustave===

In 116 he states RR as his strongest scum read. The reasoning he offers is that RR went against the gambit, then later goes along with it. He states that this is trying to garner town points while trying to make him look less credible.

But there is another person who did very similar actions. Look at Gustave's 40, then his 58. He opposes the gambit and then directs a post at Tokyo, using the gambit to try to gain information. Why does Gustave not get any suspicion? Why is RR his strongest scum read, while Gustave is not mentioned at all in his 116? Gustave was also one of the most active posters in the early game.

What does this suggest? It probably suggests that his pressure on RR is not sincere. But more importantly, it suggests that JTB is not paying attention to Gustave's actions. This is called selective scumhunting, and I find it highly unlikely that a town member would be justified in doing so.

This should be taken into account with Gustave's somewhat contradictory behaviour with regard to the gambit. Then, in his 175, he states that just the fakeclaim is enough to "clear" JTB for him. His main reasoning is that he finds it hard to believe that scum would put themself in the spotlight. This is an incredibly weak reasoning, as scum could easily do that. I strongly feel that scumJTB will lead us to scumGustave.

Wow, really T-Block? This entire section is literally WIFOM. I hadn't paid attention to Gustave yet because I hadn't gotten around to it. Do you see me pushing RR past my initial vote on him before I get a clear read on everyone? You really jumped the gun in posting this before I had even gotten to posting about Gustave.

This lynch has it all - scum tells and connections =o Pretty much everyone has given an opinion on JTB, even though some didn't offer much

vote: JTB

Let's see those votes.

The only reason I would be fine with myself being the lynch toDay is removing the question mark on my slot and allowing the rest of town to find scum.

So for the time being, assume I'm town. Who do you look at now?

 

[JTB]

What I don't like about my wagon is this:

JTB|Terywj/The Paprika Killer/Auspher/John2k4/T-Block

Tery is a RVS vote.
I don't even know why TPK is voting me.
Auspher's vote is based on weak reasoning.
T-Block is the only legit vote.
John is sheep.

Looks alot like Raziek's wagon from D2 Megaman X tbh.

I'll be back tomorrow.

 

[JTB]

Oh, quick reply to your last post T-Block.

Yes I think Gustave is scummy.
2 scum in this game is most logical. I would imagine Xiivi of all people knows to balance his games and 3 mafia would give the possibility of this game ending before D3 with a scum win.

 

[T-block]

T-Block, you are assuming that a town read is set in stone and can't be changed at all. I liked that you went along with my gambit and helped me get a solid read on TG7, so I don't see you as scum. Why should I spend my time convincing town of my town reads and not hunting scum? You are blowing this out of proportion.

I made no such assumption. The fact that you came to a town read on me at all for something that is trivial for scum to do, EVEN IF that read can change later, is enough to give me pause. What if I do something that suggests I'm scum later on? Are you going to look back to the beginning of this Day and say "well... he DID go along with my gambit, so that suggests he's not scum"? Of course not. You're going to look back and say "scum could easily go along with the gambit, he's still scum", and rightfully so - going along with the gambit shouldn't give anyone town cred.

Calling me scummy for not posting for two days is just reaching and you should know better than that.

It's a possibility, not a piece of evidence. But yes, to be fair, I have seen you be relatively inactive even as town.

Bull****. Even though I didn't give my read on TG7 right away doesn't mean it wasn't my primary concern, I got sidetracked with TPK and RR. You are reaching here again.

Am I reaching? That's a pretty big thing to be sidetracked from, considering it was the main purpose for attempting the gambit in the first place. Why were you so eager to paint TPK and RR as scum in the first place? Were their actions that telling that they blinded you from reaching a conclusion about TG7? I don't buy it.

Wow, really T-Block? This entire section is literally WIFOM. I hadn't paid attention to Gustave yet because I hadn't gotten around to it. Do you see me pushing RR past my initial vote on him before I get a clear read on everyone? You really jumped the gun in posting this before I had even gotten to posting about Gustave.

Man this is so fake. Are you honestly going to tell me you were getting around to posting about Gustave? What if I hadn't made a post about him myself (130)? Are you still going to tell me you would have? There is nothing in your 116 that suggests you weren't finished. You say "But it wasn't in vain as I did get reads from other players due to it" and go on to go through a list of players and end it with "I'll be looking at those who also refused to join the wagon and watching them closely" - there's definitely the implication that you had given all you had learned, and that any future content would come from future posts ("watching them closely").

I mean, why does TPK get so much elaboration while Gustave doesn't even get a mention? Is Gustave another one of those cases where you only came to conclusions on a recent re-read? If so, you know I'm going to ask why you picked up on RR's posts but not Gustave's in the first place.

So for the time being, assume I'm town. Who do you look at now?

I'd have to completely re-read. But you're not flipping town.

 

[Xiivi]

Vc1.c

6/10|10.27.11 11:59PM EST

votee|voters
JTB|Terywj/The Paprika Killer/Auspher/John2k4/
Terywj|Gustave/
Red Ryu|JTB/
Gustave|Red Ryu/Kantrip/
No Vote|TokyoGamer7/T-block/

 

[Deleted member]

Unvote: JTB

been busy (still am), haven't had time to post here and stuff. I'll try to have read and posted stuff this evening but chances are I won't until tomorrow (freakign exam)

 

[Deleted member]

Unvote: JTB
freaking bold

 

[T-block]

@mod: Can we get prods please?

 

[JTB]

Ill try to respond the best I can on my phone.

I understand where you are coming from wrt to my read on you. Would it be more accurate to say that I'm null on you for going with my gambit but you aren't someone I'm concerned with at moment?

Your argument about not posting about TG7 right away and 'ignoring' Gustave is ******** as hell. I can't argue against it at all because it revolves around something I hadn't done yet, I can only say that I was going to.

And stop tunneling me so much that you refuse to believe I'm town.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Kay so I'll be rereading. AKA prod received.