Homing Attack

[|RK|]

How do you Sonics use your homing attack? And I mean each separate one of you specifically.

In case you have a Q&A thread, I didn't put this there because it doesn't work for such a topic. So, please inform me. Thank you.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

They don't

/thread

Homing Attack isn't really used since it's a pretty rubbish move anyway. No priority, poor knockback, easily punished...most of the time, it'll miss and the majority of the time, you leave yourself well open to punishment

In the rare occasions I do use it, it's only when someone really isn't expecting it so I throw it out as a surprise or if someone is charging a Smash attack to try and edgeguard me and I don't want to use my Up + B incase they try and chase/attack me

In other news

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201103

 

[Jim Morrison]

I do use HA sometimes, but that's cause it has a use on wifi.
When someone is shielding and I'm dropping on to their shield, I use a HAC (pressing B while doing a HA, it cuts your load time in half)
Also, when I'm totally up in the corner of the level, I do it for teh lulz.

 

[Tenki]

sometimes people get too accustomed to ASC (LOL really) and I'd throw in a HA in. Also, since past a certain point, people forget you have it, it's sometimes lulzy to double jump and then use HA to "stall" right before you hit the ground, at which point a person might miss their grab.

As for its uses offline against competent players, I don't really know LOL.

I do use it sometimes to wait for an opening if someone's ledge camping - go slightly under the level and let HA rise into the bottom side as it's rising. On BF, if you do this, you can bounce yourself towards the center crystal, wall jump, then spring back. On FD you can do that against the wall under the lip ledge thing.

I guess for offensive uses, it's probably better off as a followup after an spindash hit (any phase, lol). Forever ago, Terios had an offstage D-air > HA pseudo-combo but everyone's too scared to try it LOL

 

[MarKO X]

WOW @ how we just had this conversation on the xat.

You can use it for a Boom Combo. lol. (fair to fair to HA, but you might not get that often)

And chances are, you are better off not using HA. You are better off consciously thinking to yourself, "Wow, I shouldn't using Homing Attack," and miss an opportunity to get ***** rather than using it.

 

[Boxob.]

I need to remember to respond to this later.

 

[Trillion]

As has already been said, it's best used IMO after hitting with a spin dash. I try for the grounded hit of the spin dash, then jumping in the spin dash for a second hit and then following with the homing attack. I have done a combo (its in my combo vid) where I did this and the homing attack fell short and missed, but it left me in the perfect position to get a fair that earned me the kill.

Also, already said, it's good for recovery sometimes. Throwing it in once in awhile is ok, but don't do it every time.

Here is something unsaid though. I sometimes have success with using spin shot to homing attack. If I am using the CiTH combo or spin shot bair or upair a lot, I can throw in the homing attack and it throws them off. This is typically because when someone sees me do a spin shot in an offensive manuever, they instantly throw up their shield to block the spring or aerial that they know is coming. Instead, I do the slow version of the homing attack and can sometimes get a shield poke because they didn't expect to be holding their shield for so long.

 

[Camalange]

wow @ How We Just Had This Conversation On The Xat.

You Can Use It For A Boom Combo. Lol. (fair To Fair To Ha, But You Might Not Get That Often)

And Chances Are, You Are Better Off Not Using Ha. You Are Better Off Consciously Thinking To Yourself, "wow, I Shouldn't Using Homing Attack," And Miss An Opportunity To Get ***** Rather Than Using It.

^^^^

QFT!!

caps.

/THREAD!!

 

[thecatinthehat]

LMAO. MARK IS SO TRUFAX.

RK, I think you should go talk to KC.

 

[Boxob.]

Alright. Homing attack.

THIS. MOVE. IS. NOT. AWFUL.

It's all about predicting your enemy. You condition them to believe on thing, than HA in their faces for steak.

I promise, this move works.

 

[PrinceRamen]

I use it at the bottom of FD, Smashville, etc, to avoid certain final smashes or stall. And if im forced under the stage i use it to stay at the bottom to save myself, most people hesitate and just up-b when there's a ceiling right above them. Basically i only use it for recovery.

 

[|RK|]

Hrm. I'll remember those... (NOTE: Most Sonics don't use HA)

How can Kirby use it?

 

[Sameyu]

Hrm. I'll remember those... (NOTE: Most Sonics don't use HA)

How can Kirby use it?

IMO, Kirby using homing attack is kinda useless unless you're doing it with a Sonic trying to get each other KO-ed in the air. He can also use it endlessly under stages to stall battle the same way Sonic can.

 

[Boxob.]

Kirby using homing attack is good in teams, when you're not fighting sonic. Sonic doesn't have many laggy moves, there's not a lot of situations that HA can be useful in, for him.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

See i know what i'm talking about when i say HA can be a good thing IMO i use HA for mind games and to help get some extra distance for my recovery's. I would also sometimes use it in case i get stuck under the ledge I'll bounce off the ceiling and then proceed to recover that way. You could also use a SC or SD to HA simply by jumping then pressing B but thats a little obvious at times. also don't use HA repeatability unless you are certain you can ether hit them or if you miss get outta of the way from an attack. I'm known around here for using HA alot so i kinda know a bit about it like you can also aim the spot of impact for HA even if you don't see any change in direction you can hit different parts of your opponent which in turn can make it easier to pull away from your opponents after impact.

But also using HA way too much WILL lead to you getting punished i suggest using it at least maybe 2-3 times between each stock. And even then thats risky it's all about practice with this move it can be a life saver sometimes as well as sends opponents away so you can try to regain control of the stage. But don't expect it to land any kills unless of course you place and time it right. I mean most sonic's forget the B button and just ignore it but don't your really putting yourself at a disadvantage due to lack of mix ups. for EX. if your opponent is starting to figure out your string of attacks and patterns you can try to throw in a surprise HA to get him confused. Then try to mix it in some more. but like i said don't go abusing this move unless you know what your doing,and even then using it like that is unsafe.

 

[Chis]

How many frames of lag do you get when HA is shielded? 60? lol

 

[Browny]

Use HA to hit people while theyre recovering... works quite well vs snake, mario and others who are slow in the air

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Well i'm not giving a frame estimate but when sonic bounces off the stage i can make out a good 2-3 seconds tops that it takes to use a move again and like 1-2 to start moving him again. But if you miss the bounce then you lag on the ground for about a good 3-5 seconds.

 

[Kinzer]

Has anybody said how Kirby jumps MUCH higher than Sonic does after HA hits a person (not the ground, they both go about half a SH height if they bounce off from the ground).

I swear you cannot punish Kirby's HA lag.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

yeah Kirby's HA is better compared to sonic's but i i'm not sure if Kirby's HA does less damage.

 

[Kinzer]

Sonic's HA if fully fresh (when is it NOT going to be fresh?! -_-) does 8% damage, I know this by heart.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

but do you know how much damage it does when it's stale -____- I think we should try to research HA again just to re look at what it can do. I mean it doesn't hurt to review stuff. And when i mean research HA again i mean full all out recover of everything we should at least try to think up of possible strings of moves HA can be used in. I mean if the move is "BAD" we can at least try to keep looking for ways to sue it for good. Because no matter what there is always something you can use a move for that is positive. Like we should try find out frames for everything when he lands how many frames it takes to get up and at what frames you can start to control him. I mean we should give this move the full run down we give all other moves.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

- ASC to Footstool to HA;
- SDR to ASC from edge to HA;
- Fthrow near the edge and away from stage to HA (people tend to double jump after the Fthrow when thrown out of the stage);
- Spinshot to HA against multiple jumpers (Kirby, Meta, Puff, etc) as a surprise attack when edgeguarding (if they try to jump out of the Spinshot trajectory, HA will hit them towards the blast zone)...

Came up with this as I was typing. w/e

 

[Tesh]

First of all, do we have complete and accurate data about homing attack?
The lag can't really be as bad as you say Kidcraft, 3-5 seconds is a shield break isn't it? That would be like someone shielding homing attack on wifi then warlock punching you.
I think we need to know the exact amount of lag for:
-Homing attack strikes a shield
-Homing attack bounces on the ground
-Homing attack lands on the ground
-Homing attack strikes aerial/grounded foe or projectile
-Homing attack completely misses and doesn't land during the lag

*Frames it takes to reach foe from the launch sound. I know it must be based on the distance, but a minimum and maximum would be helpful to see how much time someone would have to act directly from the release sound.

Using both shortened and full charge HA for mindgame potential?
There is a 25 frame difference between shortened and full charge HA according to ShadowLink84's thread.
On the Ground

Against grounded foes, I think its pretty much useless unless they lock themselves into something laggy but with no possible hitbox above/behind themselves(charging a forward/down smash for many characters would make sense). Even if they don't know which version you are going to use, the attack is so laggy that they don't have to powershield it to have an easy time punishing you.

In the air
..however, in the air people don't have shields (not really anyway). The fastest airdodge to start is metaknight's on frame 3 and it lasts 26 frames for invincibility. Bowser also has the same duration of invinciblity on his airdodge. Doesn't this mean that you can't airdodge homing attack without knowing which version is being used?

Sadly the most redeeming quality of this attack is overshadowed by the priority correct? Most nairs have a large enough hitbox covering the entire character to beat homing attack for more than 25 frames?

One thing I have found useful about it is actually just getting the distance in the air without having to double jump or spring. If used immediately have uthrow or fthrow, it seems to lock on on mid percents even if they double jump and of course it misses and you get launched about them. This gives you the height to be able to dair and use the momentum to land a super fast falling bair which ( as far as i know) can't be done without platforms othewise. Its not that useful, but wouldn't you love a dive attack with the power of bair.

Anomalies
Just like with underused characters have less developed metagames, isn't it possible that homing attack has properties that have not yet been found due to most sonic mains avoiding its usage?

At times I have experienced homing attack seemed to home in on enemy projectiles (makes it even worse) such as GnW sausages, peach's turnips, Lucas/Ness Pk Fire and worst of all, Lucario's Aure sphere. Although it could be a coincidence with characters leaning forward when throwing/firing.

 

[Tenki]

I'm pretty sure this thread was probably more meant for the Kirby people to learn how to use Kirby HA. Maybe.

 

[Kinzer]

What makes you think that Tenki?

 

[Camalange]

Sonic's HA is bad if you have to condition the opponent to it.

That's the point.

When I say I never use HA, it's not true. I use it against people WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND HA like to recover. People can easily **** up the HA "recovery" by grabbing the ledge and be invincible while the HA is locking, then Sonic goes straight down. But against people who don't know this, of course I'll use it. If people airdodge too much when being juggled in the air, of course I'll use Fair>Fair>HA.

But all in all, anytime a person needs to be conditioned or "mindgamed" >_> to use an attack, it's bad.

HA is bad.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Lol @ researching landing frames on HA.
Lol @ researching HA at all. It has terrible uses, and you know yourself when it should be used.

 

[MarKO X]

The HA revolution will not be televised.
No really, it wont.

UpTaunt (the quickest of Sonic's taunts) is legitimately safer than HA
HA is basically a Falcon Punch stripped of all its manliness and awesomeness.
HA is like Link's recovery.
HA reminds me of Jiggs's sing, it might just be a taunt in disguise with an effect.

If I wasnt lazy, I could come up with many more HA insults. It's just that bad, and 9000 times out of 9001, there is something better that you can do in place of a HA.

 

[Chis]

Use HA when a platform is between the path of you and your target. So, while recovering, you'll hit the platform instead. A BIT safer I guess.

Dair > HA for a recovery if you're close enough.

As someone said, non-cancelled HA to stall in the air for a bit.

I don't know why some Sonics (good ones) SDJ > HA every now and then.

 

[RenegadeRaven]

Use HA to hit people while theyre recovering... works quite well vs snake, mario and others who are slow in the air

This. Pretty much...

 

[ROOOOY!]

HA is bad.

I finally got through to someone.

Homing Attack should not be used.

It's funny, because although most people defend it the move has never been proven to be helpful. Practically every time I see it used in a match the whole situation goes **** up.

If you take a recent example (of which there are many), Espy's latest set against Hylian. A Homing Attack offstage resulted in the **** thing floating just onto Hylian's G&W's usmash, killing Espy and costing him the set.

You won't believe how many times this kind of thing happens, and I facepalm every time.

Kids like dat Hylian who have fully functioning limbs and reactions make Homing Attack completely useless. Outside of kindergarten, these kids are plentiful. Bad times.

 

[iSpiN]

Use HA to hit people while theyre recovering... works quite well vs snake, mario and others who are slow in the air

This

wifi

and That

 

[Kinzer]

I feel much safer decaying my Bair or Fairing offstage than I do using Homing Attack.

...A little bit of this, and a little bit that~. hmmmhmmm

 

[PhoenixoKaZe]

smart ppl don`t use it/ use it at right time. The others r just too slo lol

 

[Marteh]

Only time I ever use homing attack is when charging a down B and using jump (in concession aka, down b, then press just while still holding the Down and B). It's amazing how many people when planning attack dont notice sonic switch between the moves.

 

[Camalange]

^^^

WiFi combo.

 

[iSpiN]

Or a Brawl+ combo, LOL hitstun :l

But in a real match offline Brawl match that is very ineffective. Also, no one can punish HA online if you get good enough with it, that's how good it is on Wifi.

 

[|RK|]

Wi-Fi isn't that slow >_>

But yeah it would be good for stalling when someone's edgeguarding, wouldn't it? Then one their invincibility frames run out, you attack.

 

[Espy Rose]

I actually killed a Snake the other day with bair to bair to HA off of YI Brawl.