Hitstun/shield stun Thread

[Revven]

Wow, we have yet another update. Check the OP

Hitstun 1.2

Not sure what the difference between the two. If you have Captain Falcon Dair Snake on the ground around 80%, he twirls up and can still air dodge early. It seems like the only difference is less code. Idk if it was a fix for the wavedashing or not.

PW made the changes so it would fix the bugs Jiang mentioned. I think you're going to need to mention the bugs you're having to PW.

 

[kupo15]

Oh so it has to do with glitches with the hitstun code working with the melee air dodge system. I have a nice combo vid coming along. Cant wait to show it off

 

[M15t3R E]

Please, PW, please return C. Falcon to at least near his former glory =[
I feel sorry for the guy.

 

[genki]

Please, PW, please return C. Falcon to at least near his former glory =[
I feel sorry for the guy.

Falcons main problem is his priority and lag hit stun isn't going to do much to change that unfortunately.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

What about aerial meteor Strikes? In melee, if ur quick enough, you can meteor cancel by either jumping or quickly Up+B. In brawl, it acts as a very powerful Spike

 

[kupo15]

Added a new vid to the OP

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

wee need to break this. i dont see why more ppl arent into this as they were into wavedashing, this makes COMBOS, REAL COMBOS, L2AD and L2DI DOES NOT APPLY TO THIS

and i was thinking of an idea to replace the twirling animation with the tumbling ones, what im saying is to do what u did to the SSBB AD>SSBM AD(wavedashing)but to the twirling mechanic

 

[Someone7]

Testing it, don't see too much of a difference.

I did discover though that with the added hitstun, some opponents will thud on the ground from Falco's chainthrow at certain percentages. That means if a player misses a tech, you can laser-lock them from the chainthrow.

 

[cykofox]

lol falco iz soo broukan.

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

u guys should try sheik, lucas, diddy, or falcon. they all have real inescapable combos

 

[kupo15]

There is only one major bug so far in this code and that is that the hit stun code does not apply to moves that twirl you after you get hit. Only tumble stun.

So, which hit stun version is better? Are there any differences?

 

[cAm8ooo]

WOW........ after seeing that combo vid it made me speechless.

 

[Someone7]

I don't think those are true combos.

 

[kupo15]

Im sure good DI will make them impossible but that is something to expect. We still need more hitstun though. I couldnt find any other character with moves that combo well like that with the current hit stun

 

[cAm8ooo]

What air dodge code are you suppose to use with hitstun 1.2. Don't one of the codes not work with the hitstun code on as well?

 

[kupo15]

idk. Im not planning on switching to the melee air dodge until the hit stun code works well without it. Thanks for your comment btw!

 

[hippyman69]

im just curious guys, did falcon have problems with priority in melee? i wouldn't know since i played it like twice, and instead played a metric **** ton of smash 64 since 1999.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

As long as decent DI can break you out...im cool with this.

but more hitstun 0_o...wtf is sheiks ftilt doing...

Also with more itll get to the point where DI does like nothing >.<

 

[Wind Owl]

Falcon had a problem with priority but his mobility was so good that it made up for it. He could move in and out of your range and then attack when he found an opening. In Brawl he's way too slow for that.

 

[CT Chia]

uhg the answer is not more hitstun, its starting to be like a broken record lol. its getting a code that properly implements hitstun.

anyway, how is this 1.2 code. is it good enough that i should use it in my side tourney for brawl+ tonight? it still sounds a lil iffy

 

[MuBa]

uhg the answer is not more hitstun, its starting to be like a broken record lol. its getting a code that properly implements hitstun.

anyway, how is this 1.2 code. is it good enough that i should use it in my side tourney for brawl+ tonight? it still sounds a lil iffy

-S-Cancel

-1.2 hitstun code

-Higher Gravity (I experimented with 1.115x which is 3F950000 - So far it's pretty good and recoveries are manageable)

-0.9 or 1.0 Damage Ratio

-The FIRST Melee Airdodge code PW posted

-No Tripping

-(Optional) Record match over 3 minutes

 

[Grunt]

I would just use hitstun 1.2 s-cancel and WD.

 

[CT Chia]

im doing l cancel not s cancel

 

[MuBa]

im doing l cancel not s cancel

S-cancel is easier to do compared to L-cancel where people may get frustrated with the timing.

 

[CT Chia]

thats the whole point -_-
were not trying to make the game easier, were trying to put some more tech skill in it

 

[Wind Owl]

Oh boy, not this again...

But MuBa's point, I think, is that if we want to attract Brawl players to Brawl+, it should be easier for them to get into it. However, Chibo's tourney is a side-tournament of a Melee tournament, so I don't think that's much of an issue.

 

[Alopex]

Seems to me like using the hitstun code makes using a higher gravity code entirely essential. The floatiness of Brawl coupled with hitstun would make combos extremely easy and prolonged. So I'm not really sold on this idea yet. If someone could make a video of actual matches using these codes, then I could get an idea of how these things mesh in actual application.

 

[zxeon]

Gravity breaks more things than it fixes. It's not worth using gravity IMO.

 

[Alopex]

That's precisely what scares me. I don't really want to use higher gravity, but hitstun with floatiness seems like so many broken combos could be made. So what choice are we left with?

 

[Wind Owl]

..... Melee >_>

*runs*

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

thats the whole point -_-
were not trying to make the game easier, were trying to put some more tech skill in it

why should such a fundamental action be intentionally difficult? would the game have more "tech skill" if you had to rotate your analog stick in order to shield?

 

[wangston]

Won't chain grabs be broken with all of this hit stun. Falco's down throw is now god.

 

[LeeHarris]

The hitstun does not NEED to be increased as it is powerful enough already, but I'd be interested to try it out with it added. I think it would also be interesting to see a code where jumping gives you more horizontal momentum. In Melee, jumping sideways gave you momentum. In Brawl, you drop like a rock.

 

[Minato]

That's precisely what scares me. I don't really want to use higher gravity, but hitstun with floatiness seems like so many broken combos could be made. So what choice are we left with?

Just like 64.

Won't chain grabs be broken with all of this hit stun. Falco's down throw is now god.

Wangston, I don't think the hitsun code actually affects throws. Not sure on this one though...

 

[Alopex]

Just like 64.

Holy crap you're right.

I just remembered how I relished my Dair combos with Ness in that game. Oh man, that was so broken yet so totally awesome. I loved that game.

And now that you've reminded me, I am no longer bothered by this. Hitstun + Floatiness, the return of 64. I'm down.

 

[Eten]

Holy crap you're right.

I just remembered how I relished my Dair combos with Ness in that game. Oh man, that was so broken yet so totally awesome. I loved that game.

And now that you've reminded me, I am no longer bothered by this. Hitstun + Floatiness, the return of 64. I'm down.

Yay! That's exactly what I hope to see to come out of brawl+

 

[kupo15]

uhg the answer is not more hitstun, its starting to be like a broken record lol. its getting a code that properly implements hitstun.

anyway, how is this 1.2 code. is it good enough that i should use it in my side tourney for brawl+ tonight? it still sounds a lil iffy

I feel it is. I spent a couple hours going through the cast to find stuff and the hitstun is just not enough to really be effective. That video of mine shows the CPU not DIing properly and with proper DI, we wont have easy 0-death combos...

The 1.2 code is better. The only glitch is that hit stun does not apply to knock down moves that make you twirl away, only knock down hits that put you in a spaz tumble.

thats the whole point -_-
were not trying to make the game easier, were trying to put some more tech skill in it

I thought this myself but I have switched over that an auto l cancel (not s cancel) is the best option because ppl like MK, samus, pit, and other fast ppl dont have to worry about l canceling as much. The timing is hard and the effort put in to making some ppl unfairly have to learn it is not a good idea.
But in meantime, I use l canceling while I wait for auto l canceling.

That's precisely what scares me. I don't really want to use higher gravity, but hitstun with floatiness seems like so many broken combos could be made. So what choice are we left with?

No, we wont have broken combos like 64. We will have awesome combos that are hard to do if your opponent knows how to DI correctly...

As long as decent DI can break you out...im cool with this.

but more hitstun 0_o...wtf is sheiks ftilt doing...

Also with more itll get to the point where DI does like nothing >.<

No, I feel like a broken record but hit stun is not the problem for Sheik's forward tilt. It has to do with not being about to DI weak hits..so please, no one bring that example up again because it is unrelated to hit stun. im pretty sure that the hit stun hack does NOT affect weak hits, only knock down hits -_-

The hitstun does not NEED to be increased as it is powerful enough already, but I'd be interested to try it out with it added. I think it would also be interesting to see a code where jumping gives you more horizontal momentum. In Melee, jumping sideways gave you momentum. In Brawl, you drop like a rock.

I think more hit stun is needed because the knockback on most moves is too high. I would like to try brawl out with poper hitstun to match the default than to change the damage ratio. At least your down for trying it out.

Yay! That's exactly what I hope to see to come out of brawl+

Me too. A better 64. Combos similar to 64 but are way harder to do because of an enhanced defense system and DI.

 

[MookieRah]

There seems to be a few fundamental flaws with some of the thinking going on back here. I'll try to address them real quick.

TRUE COMBOS OMFG - True combos in practice mode shouldn't be the goal of this. Yeah, there should be *some* but that isn't the point. In actuality most of the best Melee combos weren't *true* combos, because someone could DI out of it, air dodge out of it, or even attack out of it to finish them earlier. If you guys put too much hit stun in, I think it would start to have a drastically negative effect on gameplay, as it would turn into pure combos all the time. If your goal is to make it more like melee, than that would be a bad thing, as it is simply the opposite extreme of how Brawl currently is.

As it stands, it seems like version 1.2 adds a decent amount of stun (maybe too much, but it doesn't look that bad). This should be enough. If things don't truly combo, it's ok. If they can airdodge out of it, and they have only one air dodge, it's ok. If you can force them into a situation, you can use it to your advantage. Hell, you can bait air dodges by setting up what appears to be a combo, and continue the combo on the ground. As long as combos are viable, it doesn't have to be perfect.

WE ARE ADDING TECH SKILL W00T- Our focus shouldn't be on making things harder. That's not the point. We are trying to expand the players option. The view that L-canceling is preferred over S-canceling simply cause it requires accurate timing is not in the best interest of the game competitively. We should base our decisions on what makes the game better, and not what adds to the amount of time you spend practicing tech skill. Judging from what I've seen with the new hacks, there should be plenty of tech heavy things for players to use after we have had some time with a polished Melee 2.0.

 

[kupo15]

I agree for the most part MookieRah. We are not trying to create "pure combos" but we are trying to add enough hitstun so we can keep up with the enemies and actually link together a couple of moves.

I added to my vid that it is a teaser movie and that they are escapable with good DI.

 

[Rhubarbo]

Hey guys, I haven't been here for a while, so um, one question. What hacking device is being used and where can I get it?