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Hitstun and Grab-Release "Combos"

FadedImage

FadedImage

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DeliciousCake said:
I will crush you.
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lol, does cake play dotaz?

Gaussis said:
Did you DI the release? I'm not sure how exactly do all of those hit both Ness and Lucas. Do you utilt and usmash without moving or something?
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I didn't think DI would significantly change the results, but it's definitely possible.

you do a standing u-tilt, which results in only the first hit, so it's not as effective. However, you can perform a dash attack and dashing u-smash. pretty sure those should work. I haven't been able to test it with another person yet.
 
FadedImage

FadedImage

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uh oh, my combo thread is gonna turn into a dota challenge thread, I sense it coming...
 
Gaussis

Gaussis

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FadedImage said:
I didn't think DI would significantly change the results, but it's definitely possible.

you do a standing u-tilt, which results in only the first hit, so it's not as effective. However, you can perform a dash attack and dashing u-smash. pretty sure those should work. I haven't been able to test it with another person yet.
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Believe me, it does. It's what saved us from those "chaingrabs" back in April I believe. The best form of DI comes in the form of holding both the control stick and the cstick diagonally and away from Ness. He goes farther that way. Yeah, maybe the sliding usmash and dash attack work (usmash hitbox comes out in front of her first, right?). Do test it with another person. I'll test it to check as well.
 
FadedImage

FadedImage

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Gaussis said:
The best form of DI comes in the form of holding both the control stick and the cstick diagonally and away from Ness.
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That has yet to be proven in my eyes. I've tried it myself and haven't had any results. Theoretically, the C-Stick should do nothing anyways, other than SDI, which shouldn't work when holding the C-Stick.

Anyways, next time ViceGrip comes over I'll have him test with both Ness and Lucas more thoroughly. I usually just air-release him anyways, so I never really see the ground-release lag in action.
 
James Sparrow

James Sparrow

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i was playing a ness this weekend and he was pummel breaking to the ground which gave me a gaurunteed jab or dtilt. idk if this matters.
 
risemix

risemix

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So, after I posted this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6706062&postcount=30
I went back into training mode to test a few things out, and I believe ZSS has an reliable 0-death combo on Meta Knight, but I don't have a good MK to test it out with.

Step one: Grab. Once MK is grabbed, do the infinite grab-release combo until you are close enough to the edge where the release sends them off of it. If possible, grab them again. If not, D-Smash (they -will- land in it if you time it right, it is inescapable according to my friend who was trying to tech/dodge it) then grab them out of the air. Then once you are at the edge of the stage with MK grabbed:

If they are from 0-~40%ish:
Jab drop them out of the throw so the go downward, D-Smash, and stage spike or Down-B Spike.

If they are at 40%+ this is no longer effective.

Maybe someone who knows a good MK could test this out and let me know how it goes.
 
sasook

sasook

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Why not do the flipspike if they are hit by the dsmash offstage and at ground level? Why wait for them to go underneath and stun them again for the stage spike?
 
risemix

risemix

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sasook said:
Why not do the flipspike if they are hit by the dsmash offstage and at ground level? Why wait for them to go underneath and stun them again for the stage spike?
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I was under the impression that their percentage would be low enough that they would not rise high enough out of the stun.
 
sasook

sasook

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That post by Sparrow was in November, jibby. I haven't seen him lately, he may not even be around here anymore. His last post on the ZSS boards was at the beginning of this month.
 
noradseven

noradseven

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isn't neutral air short hop f-air a combo at low damages around 30%. I never seem to miss it, well regardless is a pain to dodge.
 
Zaffy

Zaffy

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Some of these combos i knew but It'll be great to try out the rest and add them to my play style :D

Thanks!
 
FadedImage

FadedImage

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noradseven said:
isn't neutral air short hop f-air a combo at low damages around 30%. I never seem to miss it, well regardless is a pain to dodge.
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Yeah, that's in there, under landing N-Air. I use that combo tons too.


and thanks everyone for the compliments. Glad it's helping people.
 
Nefarious B

Nefarious B

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We talked about this a while ago, I finally went and tested. On the moving plat on SV (and probably the parts of RC where the stage moves horizontally), we can infinite grab release MK, lucas, (I assume, didn't test) Pika, as long as you are releasing them and traveling the same direction. When you are about to get to the end and the plat wants to go back the other way you can pivot grab. The plat pauses for a while before going back the other way however, so if an opponent is mashing they will probably break out before the plat continues back.

This also works vs various other characters if we grab them at the edge of a plat to force an air release.

Now what's interesting is that we can also land a dsmash if we air release like this. The unfortunate thing is if you dsmash and do a standing grab a character like MK will never touch the ground, so if you try and release to dsmash again he will take damage but will not be restunned. If you pivot grab they do touch the ground (or atleast I know this to be true with Wario, this is why it was originally thought that we had a dsmash pgrab infinite).

Here are my random thoughts on this. Thinking in terms of the SV plat, the main problem is that like I said before it stops for a while before going back the other way, so even though we can pivot grab they can still mash out before the plat starts moving again.

If you dsmash as the plat is coming to a halt, then pivot grab just as the stun wears off, you may be able to take enough time to get around the plat's transition time. This also may allow us to bypass the one stun til they touch the ground aspect of dsmash and use dsmash pgrab each time the plat is in it's transition period.

What this all means is that, we -may- (big ifs in this scenario) have a true infinite on any character we can air release CG if we release them on the SV plat, and possibly other stages for periods of time (RC)
 
Nefarious B

Nefarious B

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My theory craft brain says yes but like I said, needs lots more testing becacuse something as simple as the plat transition taking too long means you only have the infinite one way then finish in a dsmash combo. Also, it'd be very difficult to grab someone on the ledge like that, pretty much enough to make it unfeasible
 
#HBC | ZoZo

#HBC | ZoZo

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It's situational but with our methods we are able to make it work

Maybe it's an infinite from ??% and onwards, depending on the duration of dsmash stun ^^
 
#HBC | ZoZo

#HBC | ZoZo

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I was thinking that on mk you can probably do a running chaingrab with like 2 regrabs if you pivot grab till the outmost part of the platform in the dsmash stun.
with pika like 1
 
Nefarious B

Nefarious B

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So a dsmash is guaranteed out of an air release for Pika Lucas and MK if you're on the plat. Your ability to continue back the other way is dependent on how fast the opponent is mashing, what percent the opponent is at, how close to the transition you dsmash, and how long you wait til you pivot grab.

Yes you can do a running regrab on the plat to give yourself some extra time on the transition.

So basically this is very possible, it just takes some practice to know when you can actually do it
 
Nefarious B

Nefarious B

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I need to test where it works on RC, cause that's actually useful unlike SV plat where it's basically 1/100 matches that would actually come into play
 
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